Nadal - Djokovic H2H off clay

[King_ Zeglan12]

This is a topic that's constantly debated and both the sides some good and baseless arguments

The main scope of this debate starts after 2013 when Nadal scored his final(as of now) win over Djokovic off clay and the HC set streak began

2014: (Last prime year for Nadal )
Met once off clay and didn't meet at any slams
(Djokovic more at fault for not making it to AO)

2015 (Peak Djokovic and Worst Nadal)
Met twice off clay and not at any slams
(Nadal could've made it to USO QF , career worst form though, could've made it Shanghai finals )

2016(Last prime year for Djokovic)
Met twice off clay and not at any slams
(Nadal could've made it to USO SF while Djokovic could've made it to OLY SF)

2017(Comeback for Nadal and worst year for Djokovic)
Met zero times off clay and no alam meetings
(Djokovic could've made it to AO SF, Acapulco F,
IW,MI, 4 HC meetings where Djokovic didn't make it )

2018(Comeback for Djokovic)
Met once off clay and at WIM
( Djokovic could've made it to TOR F, Nadal retd in USO SF )

2019( 2 slams for both)
Met once off clay and at USO
( Nadal didn't make it to WIM F, Paris F(injury) and Djokovic didn't make it to USO F( injury)

2020(One slam for both )
Met once off clay and no slam meetings
( Nadal didn't make to AO F, both lost in WTF semsis)

2021(3 slam year for Djokovic)
No off clay meetings
(Nadal didn't make it to AO F )

2022(2 slam year for Nadal )
No off clay meetings
(Nadal didn't make it to WIM F and Djokovic didn't make it to many tournaments , year not yet over)

What I can conclude is that Nadal and Djokovic both are responsible for the meetings skewed towards clay , random injuries and withdrawal in case of Nadal and the vaccination saga in case of Djokovic, though Djokovic was there in most of the off clay tournaments before this year and Nadal was absent

The HC set streak is a highly circumstantial stat and while it doesn't look good on Nadal's side ,this stat would be irrelevant had Djokovic made it to one meeting in 2017 out of 4

I'm looking forward to more off clay meetings between them and a few Nadal victories.

 

[maratha_warrior]

9-0 ( 19-0 in sets ) is highly circumstantial stat , but 4-3 & 2-1bud ( USO ) is extremely accurate and well deserved stat .

 

[Kralingen]

Whoever you want to blame (Nadal and Djokovic both have ample instances where they failed to show for a potential HC/grass meeting)

it is absolutely pathetic that they have only played 3 Slam matches off clay since 2013. Nearly an entire decade, that’s 27 ducking Slams, and the two best players in the world only met 3 freaking times?????????

Their rivalry is so frustrating it should be SO much better than it is. 3 times in an entire decade, man.

 

[Turning Pro]

Djokovic has been the best player in Australia from 2011 till now
Nadal has been the best player in France from 2005 till now
Djokovic has been the best player in UK from 2014 till now
Djokovic has been the best player in New York from 2015 till now.

It is simple, there is no need to go deep into complex calculations. Nothing would have changed even if they met anywhere in between when both were fit.

Why conveniently make Djokovic best player at uso since '2015 and not '2010'?

Nadal has been the best at Us open of ANY player from 2010 - present. It is simple.

4>3, 2>1.

Bud.

 

[Deleted member 791948]

Djokovic is so lucky that even Nadal's worst level is good enough to reach the later rounds of tournaments, and that's why they met 7 times in 2015-16

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

9-0 ( 19-0 in sets ) is highly circumstantial stat , but 4-3 & 2-1bud ( USO ) is extremely accurate and well deserved stat .

When did I ever say that lol , that's also a circumstantial stat

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Whoever you want to blame (Nadal and Djokovic both have ample instances where they failed to show for a potential HC/grass meeting)

it is absolutely pathetic that they have only played 3 Slam matches off clay since 2013. Nearly an entire decade, that’s 27 ducking Slams, and the two best players in the world only met 3 freaking times?????????

Their rivalry is so frustrating it should be SO much better than it is. 3 times in an entire decade, man.

Agreed, both of them just find the perfect opportunities to play without the other

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Djokovic has been the best player in Australia from 2011 till now
Nadal has been the best player in France from 2005 till now
Djokovic has been the best player in UK from 2014 till now
Djokovic has been the best player in New York from 2015 till now.

It is simple, there is no need to go deep into complex calculations. Nothing would have changed even if they met anywhere in between when both were fit.

Why take 2015 for NY and even if you take 2015, both have two titles since then and Djokovic has an extra final

 

[GuyForget]

I mean this the precisely the reason Djoks is easily the GOAT

 

[Nadal_Django]

This is a topic that's constantly debated and both the sides some good and baseless arguments

The main scope of this debate starts after 2013 when Nadal scored his final(as of now) win over Djokovic off clay and the HC set streak began

2014: (Last prime year for Nadal )
Met once off clay and didn't meet at any slams
(Djokovic more at fault for not making it to AO)

2015 (Peak Djokovic and Worst Nadal)
Met twice off clay and not at any slams
(Nadal could've made it to USO QF , career worst form though, could've made it Shanghai finals )

2016(Last prime year for Djokovic)
Met twice off clay and not at any slams
(Nadal could've made it to USO SF while Djokovic could've made it to OLY SF)

2017(Comeback for Nadal and worst year for Djokovic)
Met zero times off clay and no alam meetings
(Djokovic could've made it to AO SF, Acapulco F,
IW,MI, 4 HC meetings where Djokovic didn't make it )

2018(Comeback for Djokovic)
Met once off clay and at WIM
( Djokovic could've made it to TOR F, Nadal retd in USO SF )

2019( 2 slams for both)
Met once off clay and at USO
( Nadal didn't make it to WIM F, Paris F(injury) and Djokovic didn't make it to USO F( injury)

2020(One slam for both )
Met once off clay and no slam meetings
( Nadal didn't make to AO F, both lost in WTF semsis)

2021(3 slam year for Djokovic)
No off clay meetings
(Nadal didn't make it to AO F )

2022(2 slam year for Nadal )
No off clay meetings
(Nadal didn't make it to WIM F and Djokovic didn't make it to many tournaments , year not yet over)

What I can conclude is that Nadal and Djokovic both are responsible for the meetings skewed towards clay , random injuries and withdrawal in case of Nadal and the vaccination saga in case of Djokovic, though Djokovic was there in most of the off clay tournaments before this year and Nadal was absent

The HC set streak is a highly circumstantial stat and while it doesn't look good on Nadal's side ,this stat would be irrelevant had Djokovic made it to one meeting in 2017 out of 4

I'm looking forward to more off clay meetings between them and a few Nadal victories.

Just think about this, since 2011 Nadal and Djokovic have played 17 times off clay with Djokovic leading 15-2, and 19 times on clay with Nadal leading 11-8. Knowing that the ATP season is 1/4 clay and 3/4 off clay, is this normal occurrence to you!?

 

[InsideOut900]

It should be pretty clear that aside from WOAT Djokovic of 2017 and early 2018, Nadal aged a lot more on non-clay surfaces.

There are a few exceptions like Wimb 18 and perhaps if they played Toronto in 18/19 and USO 17/19, but aside from that Novak should win most if not all if they played more often.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Just think about this, since 2011 Nadal and Djokovic have played 17 times off clay with Djokovic leading 15-2, and 19 times on clay with Nadal leading 11-8. Knowing that the ATP season is 1/4 clay and 3/4 off clay, is this normal occurrence to you!?

This is not normal but I'm stating even though the main fault is with Nadal , Djokovic wasn't present the few times Nadal was there

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

It should be pretty clear that aside from WOAT Djokovic of 2017 and early 2018, Nadal aged a lot more on non-clay surfaces.

There are a few exceptions like Wimb 18 and perhaps if they played Toronto in 18/19 and USO 17/19, but aside from that Novak should win most if not all if they played more often.

I'm not disputing that , just stating that Novak is also partly at fault but mainly the skew is because of Nadal

 

[jl809]

4>3 and 2>1 is fine but then we both know that if Nadal had faced Novak after 2014 in New York then the winner would be Djokovic. Unfortunate that they never met there for this theory to be proven.

2015 - Winner
2016 - Injury issues
2017 - Injury issues
2018 - Winner
2019 - Shoulder injury (this same year Novak had straight setted Nadal at AO, so if they were fit the result wuld have ended in Novak's favor)
2020 - Novak was supposed to win but the ball hit the line judge by mistake, resulting in a circus of a final.
2021 - CYGS pressure and fatigue affecting him
2022 - Not allowed to play of else he would have bulldozed the field

Novak when fit has been the strongest player in New york in 2015 IMO

From 2010-2014, yes Rafa was the best, if Nole faced him in this period then odds of Nadal winning was quite high.

Where is the evidence for this atm lol? One good Bo3 match against Tiafoe?

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Nadal not meeting Djokovic more times has affected Nadal too , sure we could say Djokovic could win the majority but with more meetings Nadal is bound to score a few wins here and there

 

[Nadal_King]

Nadal not meeting Djokovic more times has affected Nadal too , sure we could say Djokovic could win the majority but with more meetings Nadal is bound to score a few wins here and there

This is True AF

 

[kevaninho]

2015-16 is the sole reason Djokovic even leads the H2H.

Nadal at his worst form, loses 7 times in a row to peak Djokovic over a year and a half period. 4 of them being on HCs.

Then Djokovic goes on his year and a half hiatus with issues, and only gets to Nadal, back in fine form, once or twice.

Unfortunately we missed almost 4 years of their primes , with one of the other out of sorts.

 

[jl809]

I think there's a few things both fanbases need to acknowledge about this rivalry:

1. This rivalry has straight up sucked in its predictability (for different reasons) since 2014
2. Luckiness:
   1. Djokovic avoiding Nadal entirely off clay from 2017-2018 (in contrast to Nadal playing Djokovic 4 x on HC and 3 x on clay from 2015-16)
   2. Nadal only playing Djokovic on HC 2 x since 2018, and 0 x on indoor HC, vs 5 x on clay in the same period
   3. Djokovic's only 2 HC matches vs Nadal since 2016 being in Australia on low-bouncing fast HC (the 2nd of which in that fine period where Nadal was struggling with De Minaur and losing to Goffin).
3. Their rivalry on grass is great and we need MORE. Djokovic fans (and some Federer fans) put out propaganda that Nadal has been (/ would be in future) poor on grass vs Djokovic, despite the only grass match they played being an indoor match with almost identical stats where Nadal nearly took it.
4. Their H2H overall now is kinda weirdly accurate and I sort of don't want it to change. Djokovic clear on HC, Nadal clear on clay, balanced on grass

 

[Nadal_Django]

2015-16 is the sole reason Djokovic even leads the H2H.

Nadal at his worst form, loses 7 times in a row to peak Djokovic over a year and a half period. 4 of them being on HCs.

Then Djokovic goes on his year and a half hiatus with issues, and only gets to Nadal, back in fine form, once or twice.

Unfortunately we missed almost 4 years of their primes , with one of the other out of sorts.

And when physical teenage phenom freak Nadal was shellaking left right and center the normal adolescent Djokovic was all rosy and peachy in the land of Bullzillia, isn't it!?

So Djokovic is now to blame for Nadal losing like a mule in their matchup in 2015 and 2016?!

 

[Nadal_Django]

2015-16 is the sole reason Djokovic even leads the H2H.

Nadal at his worst form, loses 7 times in a row to peak Djokovic over a year and a half period. 4 of them being on HCs.

Then Djokovic goes on his year and a half hiatus with issues, and only gets to Nadal, back in fine form, once or twice.

Unfortunately we missed almost 4 years of their primes , with one of the other out of sorts.

The sole reason why Nadal is even in the same territory with Djokovic H2H wise is that from theirs almost 60 matches between them, half of them on clay. And all this in the ATP calendar where 3/4 of the tournaments in the season are off clay and 1/4 Tour tournaments are on clay.

Nadal have played 4 off clay matches during his down period. Yeah it must be that. Wow such a rotten luck. OMG Nadal is so unlucky really!

 

[jl809]

The sole reason why Nadal is even in the same territory with Djokovic H2H wise is that from theirs almost 60 matches between them, half of them on clay. And all this in the ATP calendar where 3/4 of the tournaments in the season are off clay and 1/4 Tour tournaments are on clay.

They've played 27 times on hard court and 28 times on clay, which is almost as balanced as it's possible to get on surfaces. If there are more tournaments on HC than on clay on the tour, that's the tour's problem.

I don't know why you'd voluntarily want a H2H which is imbalanced towards playing more on matches on 1 surface than another (unless you were a biased idiot). That doesn't offer a representative view of how the 2 players match up on each surface. Like Federer only playing Nadal 4 times on grass vs 16 times on clay, which has skewed the H2H

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Let‘s see what 2023 brings for the rivalry.

 

[Nadal_Django]

They've played 27 times on hard court and 28 times on clay, which is almost as balanced as it's possible to get on surfaces. If there are more tournaments on HC than on clay on the tour, that's the tour's problem.

I don't know why you'd voluntarily want a H2H which is imbalanced towards playing more on matches on 1 surface than another, unless you were a biased idiot

Check the ATP calendar you absolute muppet. They've played 28 times in 4 tournaments (clay) only. And 30 times in the rest of the tournaments during the season.

 

[jl809]

Djokovic fans (and some Federer fans) put out propaganda that Nadal has been (/ would be in future) poor on grass vs Djokovic, despite the only grass match they played being an indoor match with almost identical stats where Nadal nearly took it.

The domination will continue if Djokovic and Nadal meet off clay again. Nadal simply can’t live with Novak off clay. Novak is more competitive to Rafa on clay than Rafa is to him off it.

.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Nadal will probably chicken out again though if he has to beat Djokovic to win an off clay title.

Something I'd not expect from you tbh

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Trolls and trolling apart, they definitely need to meet more off clay and there's a definite clay skew

At the same time there is also Djokovic meeting Nadal more times when Nadal was at his worst than the reverse

Nadal is more to blame but Djokovic is partly at fault too,

Hope we get more off clay matches now

 

[InsideOut900]

I'm not disputing that , just stating that Novak is also partly at fault but mainly the skew is because of Nadal

He is because of 2017 and first half of 2022.
Nadal for the other years mostly.

Novak only avoided Nadal at USO 19 since his resurgence and Toronto. Made every single AO, Wimb, USO final aside from 2019&2020 USO, so you can't really ask for more

 

[Hitman]

Trolls and trolling apart, they definitely need to meet more off clay and there's a definite clay skew

At the same time there is also Djokovic meeting Nadal more times when Nadal was at his worst than the reverse

Nadal is more to blame but Djokovic is partly at fault too,

Hope we get more off clay matches now

You do know Nadal was injured BEFORE the AO 2014 final, yes? What do you think Djokovic would have done to Nadal on RLA had they played that match? It would have been a massacre.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Trolls and trolling apart, they definitely need to meet more off clay and there's a definite clay skew

At the same time there is also Djokovic meeting Nadal more times when Nadal was at his worst than the reverse

Nadal is more to blame but Djokovic is partly at fault too,

Hope we get more off clay matches now

Putting my trolling aside I do agree with you. It is true Djokovic caught Nadal in his worst spell and it’s also true that of late Nadal has only met Djoko on his favourite surface more. It will be cool to see how the rivalry goes in 2023 as it’s been a while since they played. I hope to see them meet on all surfaces but we will see.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Something I'd not expect from you tbh

I deleted the comment as realised it was in bad taste. Let’s see what 2023 brings from the rivalry. May they meet and the better man win.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Putting my trolling aside I do agree with you. It is true Djokovic caught Nadal in his worst spell and it’s also true that of late Nadal has only met Djoko on his favourite surface more. It will be cool to see how the rivalry goes in 2023 as it’s been a while since they played. I hope to see them meet on all surfaces but we will see.

@Djokovic_is_the_best#1 how many time did they meet before 2011 when Djokovic wasn't even a half a player that was from 2011 onwards?

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

You do know Nadal was injured BEFORE the AO 2014 final, yes? What do you think Djokovic would have done to Nadal on RLA had they played that match? It would have been a massacre.

Let it be a massacre , I'm just telling Djokovic didn't make it to him

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

@Djokovic_is_the_best#1 how many time did they meet before 2011 when Djokovic wasn't even a half a player that was from 2011 onwards?

That is also a very good point. A lot and that’s when both Fed and Rafa got a early H2H lead on Novak. Therefore, the point is they all had points in career where they caught breaks. However, from the last 10-11 years or so Djoko has been the most dominant and consistent force off clay. That can’t be argued by the big wins and titles won.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Putting my trolling aside I do agree with you. It is true Djokovic caught Nadal in his worst spell and it’s also true that of late Nadal has only met Djoko on his favourite surface more. It will be cool to see how the rivalry goes in 2023 as it’s been a while since they played. I hope to see them meet on all surfaces but we will see.

I wish they meet more often too and let the better man that day win which I'd hope is Nadal xD

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

He is because of 2017 and first half of 2022.
Nadal for the other years mostly.

Novak only avoided Nadal at USO 19 since his resurgence and Toronto. Made every single AO, Wimb, USO final aside from 2019&2020 USO, so you can't really ask for more

Agree hope they meet more and Nadal wins more lol

 

[Hitman]

Let it be a massacre , I'm just telling Djokovic didn't make it to him

Strange. So the H2H could be even worse? LOL. OK.

 

[mahatma]

Their last hard court / grass court match is the only indicator. Damn it was a complete rout. Nadal has been avoiding Djokovic hence forth off clay. Can't afford it for his claim to GOATness if he loses like AO'19 lol

 

[Hitman]

The main thing to keep in mind here is, since Djokovic became a multi slam champion, Nadal has only ever beaten him twice off clay, and this includes when Nadal was still at his best, and both wins happened within a month of each other.

This rivalry is very surface dependent. Nadal owns the clay, Djokovic owns the off clay.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Strange. So the H2H could be even worse? LOL. OK.

I didn't mean in the context of H2H lol

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Their last hard court / grass court match is the only indicator. Damn it was a complete rout. Nadal has been avoiding Djokovic hence forth off clay. Can't afford it for his claim to GOATness if he loses like AO'19 lol

You never know how the next match will pan out

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

The main thing to keep in mind here is, since Djokovic became a multi slam champion, Nadal has only ever beaten him twice off clay, and this includes when Nadal was still at his best, and both wins happened within a month of each other.

This rivalry is very surface dependent. Nadal owns the clay, Djokovic owns the off clay.

Doesn't look good on Nadal but it is what it is

 

[Hitman]

I didn't mean in the context of H2H lol

And here I saw the title having the words - H2H off clay - in it.

 

[Hitman]

Doesn't look good on Nadal but it is what it is

He still owns Djokovic on clay. As I said, the rivalry is surface dependent, so really it is 50-50. Both sides should be at least OK with that, it's middle ground.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Their last hard court / grass court match is the only indicator. Damn it was a complete rout. Nadal has been avoiding Djokovic hence forth off clay. Can't afford it for his claim to GOATness if he loses like AO'19 lol

The biggest calculated opportunist in the history of tennis.

 

[jl809]

The main thing to keep in mind here is, since Djokovic became a multi slam champion, Nadal has only ever beaten him twice off clay, and this includes when Nadal was still at his best, and both wins happened within a month of each other.

This rivalry is very surface dependent. Nadal owns the clay, Djokovic owns the off clay.

Didn’t expect this from you tbh

 

[Hitman]

Didn’t expect this from you tbh

Is it not true? That both have the superior numbers dependent on whether they play on clay or not? If Nadal owns the clay, and Djokovic still leads the H2H, then it is logical he has the superior numbers off clay. We all know this.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

And here I saw the title having the words - H2H off clay - in it.

Caught me , but I said it in the meaning of not having that match is on Djokovic

 

[jl809]

Is it not true? That both have the superior numbers dependent on whether they play on clay or not? If Nadal owns the clay, and Djokovic still leads the H2H, then it is logical he has the superior numbers off clay. We all know this.

Djokovic leads the H2H on hard more than Nadal leads the H2H on clay, and the H2H is split on grass. Their last match on grass went 5, indoors, with identical winners and UFEs, with both playing their best grass match in years (Djoker since 2015, Ned since.. 2011? 2010?) and their best to this date. This was also their only grass match in 11 years.

So to say Djokovic “owns” grass is… propaganda. Djokovic owns hard court for sure but that’s it

 

[mike danny]

Whoever you want to blame (Nadal and Djokovic both have ample instances where they failed to show for a potential HC/grass meeting)

it is absolutely pathetic that they have only played 3 Slam matches off clay since 2013. Nearly an entire decade, that’s 27 ducking Slams, and the two best players in the world only met 3 freaking times?????????

Their rivalry is so frustrating it should be SO much better than it is. 3 times in an entire decade, man.

Twice since 2013: Wimb 2018 and AO 2019.

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

And up until 2013 , Djokovic was favoured on HC but on some occasions it was still 50-50,

Nadal's lateral movement dropping off a huge cliff and his defence oriented to Djokovic's total domination on HCs of course not withstanding the Becker effect, but even without Becker Djokovic was going to dominate Nadal

From 2016, when Djokovic left his own prime
The domination has been unchallenged because the serve return combo favours Djokovic by a landslide and even ignoring that, the baseline game and HC patterns of Djokovic are more suited to HC with Nadal always having to play catch up from the get go

Djokovic didn't dominate Federer the same way because Federer had a far superior serve which could more often than not bail him out and his own game pattern was more suited to HC