# Nadal/Federer H2H is symmetrical

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheLoneWolf, May 22, 2010.

1. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Wow, I just realized that their H2H to this date is absolutely symmetrical:
By winner:
N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

It means something...

2. ### JuliusWintoRookie

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What happens next?

3. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Exactly! I'm scared. Scared I tell ya!

4. ### rueroooLegend

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You know I love me some FEDAL finals, but is there a possibility you've been watching a little too much DaVinci Code, in addition to your Close Encounters?
:-D

5. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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LOL. No. I haven't even seen DaVinci Code (or read the book.) I'm a little familiar with it though.

6. ### Tennis_MonkHall of Fame

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N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-
N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N-?

OR

N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-
N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

Not seeing the symmetry. how is it symmetrical?

7. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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If you read the list that I have in the first post forwards and backwards, it is the same list.
A symmetrical list doesn't need to have an even number of elements.

8. ### boloG.O.A.T.

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It means Nadal is awesome.

9. ### SerendipitousGuest

I agree with this human being.

10. ### Tennis_MonkHall of Fame

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There is a reason why i suck at studies .....Thanks for clarification.

11. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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LOL. Everybody already knew that. There has to be another more obscure reason. I'm studying the Mayan calendar as we speak. I think it's related...

12. ### ninmanHall of Fame

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All the head to head tells me is that Federer didn't take his chances against Nadal when he had them. That he has a deep inferiority complex against Nadal, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if he manages to score a few wins against him. For example in Nadal's 14 wins, 13 of those matches he only required 1 match point to defeat Federer.

Out of the 14 defeats Federer had opportunities to win at least 8 of those matches. Out of 7 defeats Nadal had opportunities to win at most 2. Federer just doesn't take his chances, that's the bottom line, and in my opinion that all started in Rome 2006.

13. ### MustardTalk Tennis Guru

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N-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-F-N-F-N-F-F-N-N-N-N-N-F-N

The bolded bit is the centre. If you read it to the left and to the right of the centre, it is identical.

14. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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No worries. I can see how you were interpreting it (having 2 discrete sides with only whole elements in each one.)

Last edited: May 22, 2010
15. ### MustardTalk Tennis Guru

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The 2 key matches for me were the 2006 Dubai final, where Nadal faced a peak Federer blowing him off the court and yet sucked it up and found a way to win. And the other was that 2006 Rome final where Federer played as well as he could play on clay, leading 4-1 in the final set, having 2 CPs in the 12th game of that set and leading the tiebreak 5-3, only to then lose 4 points in a row and the match.

16. ### boloG.O.A.T.

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lol. Some people need confirmation and now we have found it in the most fitting of places, written directly into the DNA of the H-H with his greatest rival.

LoneWolf: I bow to my Sensei.

17. ### darthpwnerBanned

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Federer is gonna win French Open 2010 over Nadal if the pattern continues. But then he'll lose Wimbledon to Rafa.

18. ### rueroooLegend

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It means we will be able to watch Rafa and Roger play the Olympic Mens Singles Final for the gold medal before the world ends in 2012.
According to the Mayan calendar.

19. ### edberg505Legend

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I think the word you are looking for is palindrome. Kinda like toot, madam, or 14041.

20. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Praised be thou, my Brother. The end is near!

21. ### darthpwnerBanned

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That match will determine who is the greater champion.

22. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Ah! You got it ruerooo! Fed will serve for the match, Rafa will do a perfectly symmetrical whiff, and God will come out the clouds, say "fck this, this is just getting ridiculous" and end it right there.

23. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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You are right, edberg505. That's the technical word. Thanks!

24. ### JeMarLegend

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Or "eye did peep did eye" and "lived a tune, rare nut, a devil"

25. ### DimensionProfessional

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It might signify that there will be no more Fedal final or matches. :shock:

26. ### CyBorgLegend

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Jolly good - great find, wolfie.

27. ### rueroooLegend

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:evil: :evil: :evil:

28. ### rueroooLegend

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Sounds like Gaiman and Pratchett's Good Omens.

29. ### DimensionProfessional

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I was just saying. It's quite unlikely that such remarkable symmetry will repeat itself again. I am a big fan of Fedal matches and finals. Of course I don't want it to come to an end.

30. ### pudelkoRookie

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The pattern will restart.

Which means Nadal will win.

31. ### OKUSAHall of Fame

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there is no pattern

32. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Wow

^^ Look at me! I just did one! HEHEHEHEHEHE!

33. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I hope not, Dimension! :wink:
I intend to keep watching Rafa beating Fed 2 out of 3 times up to 2012 and beyond.

34. ### DimensionProfessional

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Same here. Actually if the pattern is to repeat again, I hope Nadal's next loss to Fed will be at the hard court masters, not at any of the slams. :wink:

35. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Thank you, CyBorg. At first I thought I was wrong, but then I double checked just to make sure. Really weird. The chances of having a 21 item palindrome I don't think are very high.

As a matter of fact, the chances can be calculated this way:
1. Eliminate the middle element, as it is irrelevant.
2. Pair the first and last element of the resulting sequence (we have 10 such pairs.) For each pair, we have 4 possible states: N-N, N-F, F-N, and F-F. Only 2 out of the 4 states allow the palindrome to exist.
3. Based on 2., the chances of having a 21 element palindrome are (1/2)^10.
Do you know how low that number is? It's 1/1024, or 0.09765625%. Very, very unlikely.

If anyone thinks I made a mistake in the above calculation, please let me know.

So yeah, it's very weird to have this configuration in the H2H of Rafa and Fed.

36. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I'll sign for that!

37. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I'll have to google that one. Is it a book?

38. ### DimensionProfessional

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You will have to sign with the angel, not the devil.

39. ### RCizzle65Hall of Fame

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O_O That's mindblowing, what made you figure that out? lol

40. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I will. :wink:

41. ### DimensionProfessional

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Thelonewolf has some amazing insight there. You got to give him that.

42. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I took Math in college. And I actually enjoyed it. (Yeah, I'm THAT weird. )

43. ### OddJackLegend

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It's easy to be symmetric when you are one dimentional:

44. ### DimensionProfessional

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@TheLoneWolf, you deserve my 5 star medal for figuring this out.

45. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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Boo. LOL. Actually that's a good comeback. But notice that it takes 2 to tango (or to H2H in this case.) So Fed is a part of the equation.

46. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I wouldn't exchange the Nobel Prize for that, Dimension. :wink:

47. ### OddJackLegend

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Well, he can make some others asymmetric when he is part of the equation:

48. ### DimensionProfessional

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One can only dream. :wink:. It's unrealistic for anyone with a strong passion for research to have that as a goal. It would be more appropriate to view that as a bonus or a lottery win.

There is no Nobel prize in math. However, there is Field's medal which comes every 4 years. With the caliber of talent that you possess, you might attain it one day?

49. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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^^ How can that
be married to this?:

I used to think Fed had sold his soul to the Devil, but Roddick and Stepanek have proven everyone wrong.

50. ### TheLoneWolfBanned

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I know what you mean, Dimension. I don't think anyone looks at prizes and recognition as goals. You have to have a passion for what you do, and your achievements stem from that passion alone.

Thanks for your kind comments. I'm afraid the Field's medal is reserved for true geniuses. I'm nothing but a goon compared to the real smart mathematicians.