DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Thank you for correcting yourself my child. That shows a lot of progress.
nadal federer rivalry = seles graf rivalry?
- Thread starter dominikk1985
- Start date
Thank you for correcting yourself my child. That shows a lot of progress.
From 1988 to 1989, Steffi won 7 of 8 majors, including a Calendar-Year Grand Slam (CYGS) and two Wimbledon Titles. Steffi actually served in the third set for the only major of the 8 she didn't win. It could have been two consecutive CYGS.
From 1991 to 1992, Monica won 6 of 8 majors, with NO CYGS and ZERO Wimbledon Titles. Monica ducked out of Wimbledon in 1991. In 1992, she was thrashed in the final, 6-2, 6-1.
Who looks stupid now?
When will you show some progress and realize that Monica's record after three attempts is meaningless?
Waiting...
tenis1
Banned
You, since you completely missed the point, despite your huge and impressive SAT scores. Also not the first time you did that.
The point was that Seles clearly dominated the tour before the stabbing and that Graf fans look stupid by denying that and claiming that Seles would not win a single additional GS title if there was no stabbing. Not what you are talking about.
Keep the laughs coming...
tenis1
Banned
Who is "Monica"? Petrovich's long distant cousin?
Please learn how to spell players' names properly.
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D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Kbusts should stick to Sunny Delight lame jokes
ksbh
Banned
You are tedious!
Apparently, you don't even read what you write?
You're the one who brought up the 7 of 8 or 8 of 9. Now you are pretending you were saying something else.
ksbh
Banned
LDV ... this is indeed getting tedious!
Ok, I'll make it real simple. let's start with this question ... who was domnating the sport, near-total domination if I may add, at the time of Seles' incident?
Ok, I'll make it real simple. let's start with this question ... who was domnating the sport, near-total domination if I may add, at the time of Seles' incident?
First of all, that wasn't how you framed the problem initially. You wondered if Monica had won 7 of 8 or 8 of 9 majors in order to propose that that was in your words "as close to total domination as anyone in the history of the game."
I demonstrated how that record was not "close to total domination as anyone in the history of the game."
Now, you want to reframe the problem in terms of domination from 91 to 93 (shortly before the stabbing). Okay, let's do it.
From the head to head records and counting only matches within the timeframe when Monica was No. 1, it seems Monica had an edge over everyone except Steffi Graf.
tenis1
Banned
Your reading comprehension failed.
Joe Pike
Banned
So basically both lost on their 3rd attempt
Basically Zvereva (in 1988 ) and Seles (in 1998 ) lost FO finals.
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tenis1
Banned
LOL. How come than Seles won all slams except Wimbledon for 2 years and was leading Graf in GS H2H 3-1 before the stabbing?
tenis1
Banned
Joe Pike
Banned
Your reading comprehension failed.
Joe Pike
Banned
tenis1
Banned
Nice try, but failed again.
Joe Pike
Banned
7 of 9.
But what do you want to conclude from this?
Nobody wants to take away those slam wins from Seles.
But we were talking about what would have happened in 1993-95 without the stabbing.
Maybe you want to suggest that someone who wins 7 of 9 would win most of the slams in the next 3 years as well???
Have you checked the stats of women's tennis in the last 60 years if such a pattern exists? Could you present us your findings?
Yes, that's right.
The WTAtour site shows her as playing, but it was just in the qualifying tournament.
Your reading comprehension failed.
Joe Pike
Banned
Joe Pike
Banned
Let's see:
Last 12 months before the stabbing:
Seles 56-5 win/loss, 7 tournament wins
Graf 80-7 win/loss, 9 tournamet wins
I'd say Graf.
Joe Pike
Banned
Joe Pike
Banned
Which was not held in Wimbledon.
tenis1
Banned
Oh you are counting those two wins in 1989 over 15 years old Seles. Sure that proves your point :roll:.
Ok let me be more precise for you.
GS h2h 1990-1993 Seles 3 - Graf 1.
Joe Pike
Banned
Again you start counting with Seles's first win.
How subjective and how convenient ...
You can take an objective measure instead - BEFORE Seles became #1 and when Seles WAS #1.
In BOTH time frames Steffi leads the H2H against Seles.
Enough said.
tenis1
Banned
Nope I am counting from the time when Seles was old enough to start competing at the very top and started winning slams (1990) to until she was stabbed (1993).
The only real and objective indication. Enough said.
Concise, rational, clear.
Now, why can't Seles-****s reason like this?
Oh, that's right. Most of them are deluded.
ksbh
Banned
Joe ... let's go with your argument. So according to you, Graf's resurgence had nothing to do with Seles going out of sport because of a mentally challenged moron, but because of existing patterns of women's tennis history that show that Monica could not have continued her dominance? Boy that's one crazy inference if it's indeed what you're getting at!
IMO ... yes, without that incident, Monica would have continued her dominance. At the very least, it's safe to say you wouldn't have seen Graf magically resume her dominance like she did in Seles absence.
IMO ... yes, without that incident, Monica would have continued her dominance. At the very least, it's safe to say you wouldn't have seen Graf magically resume her dominance like she did in Seles absence.
tenis1
Banned
Failed again.
ksbh
Banned
Yes, if you count all of the stats. But how many people really remember all these other tournaments? The slams are the major reason great champions are remembered.
If I asked you how many tournaments Bjorn Borg won, excluding the slams, you'd be typing in google.com on your browser even as you were reading this post!
If I asked you how many tournaments Bjorn Borg won, excluding the slams, you'd be typing in google.com on your browser even as you were reading this post!
Joe Pike
Banned
That was in 1989 when she made a slam semi and finals in Dallas, Houston and Brighton - competing with Evert, Navratilova and Graf.
I'm quite sure that you would have started to count with Brighton in October 1989 if Seles had beaten Steffi there. She didn't - and you postponed you count start to the next opportunity. Had Seles lost that one as well you would have started counting even later.
How convenient!
"Still showing amazing ignorance. Yes you are doing just that."
Joe Pike
Banned
Graf was 81-2 win/loss in the 12 months after the stabbing - without having to play Seles.
Graf was 63-8 win/loss in 1991 without counting her matches against Seles.
Yes, Steffi's improvement from 63-8 to 81-2 had nothing to do with Seles.
Do you really want to dispute that?
Joe Pike
Banned
Comes with the territory - I'm a lawyer.
I have to earn money with arguing ...
Seles fans don't.
ksbh
Banned
tenis1
Banned
15 years old Seles was too young to beat Graf in 1989 and to compete at the VERY top. What is so hard to understand about it?
If you need to count wins Graf did vs 15 years old Seles to prove your point that Seles was not dominating the tour including Graf three years later, than it is clear indication that you are trying to manipulate the fact.
Also Brighton ins not a GS tournament last time I checked.
Filed again and again and again, ...
Yes, if you count the fact that she never won Wimbledon...
Yes, if you consider she never completed a CYGS...
Yes, if you don't consider that she was fat when she came back to the tour...
The "IF's" continue to pile up.
Joe Pike
Banned
Believe me - people will still remember Graf when Seles has already been reduced to a footnote in the history books.
But we weren't talking about being remember.
We were talking about performance, about abilities - because we try to conclude how both players would have fared if the stabbing had not happened.
What we do know is:
a) Graf and Seles were quite close in 90-92.
b) Graf was considerably better in 93-96 than in 90-92.
c) Seles's father was dying from cancer in 93-98.
So what would have happened without the stabbing?
I don't think that is exactly rocket science ...
Joe Pike
Banned
I rest my case, dear Joe Pike for we'll be at it all day & night if we don't stop!
Son, I have outlasted guys of greater caliber than you ...
Joe Pike
Banned
Seles competed at the very top.
She lost to Graf in three sets in the FO 89.
She played close finals against Steffi, Evert and Navratilova in 1989.
She was an early-bloomer, comparable to Hingis and Austin.
Types like them tend to fade away as twens, though.
Joe Pike
Banned
Brighton was a tournament to compete with the top players.
Which we were talking about.
Raiden
Hall of Fame
Yer living in cloud cuckoo land
Last time I checked it is Graf that leads Serena 2-1 in their H2H.
That alone is quite an achievement in any era (since not many players own Ree in terms of H2H. But on top of that Steffi is also THE ONLY top player that owns both Williams sisters.
That speaks VOLUMES about Steffi's unparalleled prowess
And all of this despite Steffi being long long past her peak: literally an entire decade (10 YEARS) after her golden slam feat. Serena on the other hand was much closer to her peak: only 3 years before she started her slam sweep.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
LOL, let the contradictions of this loser pile up. He wants to compare 15 year old Seles but not 15 year old Graf being destroyed by nobody Wendy Turnbull
tenis1
Banned
LOL, let the contradictions of this loser pile up. He wants to compare 15 year old Seles but not 15 year old Graf being destroyed by nobody Wendy Turnbull
Good catch
There are inconsistent things like that from JP and LDV all over this thread ,
Joe Pike
Banned
LOL, let the contradictions of this loser pile up. He wants to compare 15 year old Seles but not 15 year old Graf being destroyed by nobody Wendy Turnbull
I don't want to compare 15-year-old Seles with 15-year-old Steffi.
Steffi was a slender kid.
Seles and Capriati types were early-bloomers. Big and strong.
single_handed_champion
Professional
For good reason too
. Rocket science does not throw basic logic out of the window, as is happening out here.Similar threads
