Nadal had the toughest competition out of any player in history

[Towser83]

Fed fan. Voted Djokovic

 

[Nadal_Django]

It's quite hilarious that Fedr is leading the poll tbh.

 

[LETitBE]

As the most fanatic Nadal fan, I have to agree.

you forgot the banana

 

[MS_07]

Firstly I have to state I am a Federer and Nadal fan, and this is a very unbiased thread, but just what I have observed over the years. I would still say Federer is the greatest player followed by Nadal second, then either Djokovic or Sampras number 3.

Federer had a trouble free start to his grand slam wins, there weren't many notable opponents in the early years. It was a retiring Agassi, and Roddick and few others which weren't of the highest level. Nadal troubled Federer from the very first game. When Nadal and Djokovic started to emerge as multiple grand slam winners, Federer struggled. Federer also enjoyed a very weak era last year.

Djokovic hugely benefited from the end of Federer's career where his form was low, and the same with Nadal in the last few years. Nadal was obviously going to drop off quicker due to his style of play and the impact the body takes. So Djokovic enjoyed a free ride over the last few years, before 2017, and at one point held all four grand slams I believe.

Nadal had it very tough. He was playing on the men's tour when he was a child. He had to compete against who most people consider the greatest player of all time Roger Federer. Nadal was number 2 for so many years, but him and his uncle worked out a way to beat Federer at his own home, and he did so in Wimbledon 2008. Federer was untouchable on grass from 2003 to 2009, and was still in his greatest form in 2008 and Nadal had to battle on his weakest surface to beat him. He then had to compete with Prime Djokovic, against who I would probably consider the third greatest player of all time. So to think he had to compete with the greatest and third greatest players in history in their primes.

there's a tie between Fed/Ned . Ned had it tougher earlier but he also had 5 year advantage .

bottomline is , d joker is having a free ride since 2010 and there's no one to stop him . if he had been true goat he must have crossed 25 GS mark by now .

 

[msc886]

I feel Federer has it overall the toughest. He had an easier start when dealing with his generation but he has the toughest up and comers to deal with in Nadal and Djokovic.

Nadal and Djokovic had each other and a waning Federer who was still pretty good but having guys like Dimitrov and Raonic as their up and comers and now the lost-gen pretty much makes it child’s play for them.

 

[Jonas78]

These things probably evens out in the long run. Djokovic had a tough start, but from 2013/2014 he cant complain. He is the youngest one of Big3 with no younger ATG in sight. Longevity pays off

 

[Robert Baratheon]

His prime overlapped with the BIG4 era.
So yeah naturally he had to face the strongest opponents.
I don't believe that facing the big names makes it difficult automatically.
It is more about the form and the game those big names brought to the match.
And in 2008-2013 all those big names were going pretty strong.

 

[ForehandRF]

His prime overlapped with the BIG4 era.
So yeah naturally he had to face the strongest opponents.
I don't believe that facing the big names makes it difficult automatically.
It is more about the form and the game those big names brought to the match.
And in 2008-2013 all those big names were going pretty strong.

Except that in 2013 Fed wasn't going strong at all

 

[Jonas78]

His prime overlapped with the BIG4 era.
So yeah naturally he had to face the strongest opponents.
I don't believe that facing the big names makes it difficult automatically.
It is more about the form and the game those big names brought to the match.
And in 2008-2013 all those big names were going pretty strong.

Was it really? Federer didnt stop Nadal even once 2008-2013. Djokovic stopped him in three consecutive slams W11, USO11, AO12. Except the W11-AO12 stretch it isnt because of Nole & Fred that Rafa didnt win more in his prime (2008-2013). So sure, in a way you can say Rafa was sandwitched in between, but Federer could never stop him (sinse 2008).

Its a bit weird, but Fed & Nole has hurt Nadal more in the three years 2017-2019 than in his whole prime 2008-2013.

 

[Robert Baratheon]

Except that in 2013 Fed wasn't going strong at all

But do you think every big4 player needs to go strong for the competition to be strong.
In 2009 Fed didn't really have Djokovic going strong.
But Fed's 2009 is considered strong, is it not?
Same way Nadal's 2013 was strong. He had Djokovic in both the slams he won.
He had Djokovic in Canada, MC, ATP finals, Beijing.

It's not about one year. As a whole 2008-13 was the strongest era hands down.
In 2008 the field wasn't that special but Nadal still had Fed in the 2 slams he won.
2009 AO he had a strong Fed.
2010 he enjoyed weaker competition but then again who hasn't.
2011-2012 he had Djokovic beating him in finals everywhere.
Remember how Nadal was supposed to be ruling the world after his mammoth 2010 and no real opponents in sight?
He had finally matured as a non-clay player and Fed had finally declined and then Djokovic happened.

The point is that compared to Fed and Djokovic, Nadal has had a stronger competition.
By the time the competition got considerably weaker he was more past his prime than Djokovic.
If we had peak Nadal in 2017-2019 he would have obliterated everyone at most of the tournaments.
His decline has been more significant(especially off clay) than Fedovic because what made him a world beater on non-clay surfaces in large portions of 2008-2013 isn't there anymore, his defense.
Federer still has his most important weapon which is the serve. So does Novak.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

I disagree.
Nadal had Federer and Djokovic,
But Berdych, Tsonga, etc, had Federer, Djokovic and Nadal.
So all of them had tougher competition than any of the big 3.

 

[Robert Baratheon]

Its a bit weird, but Fed & Nole has hurt Nadal more in the three years 2017-2019 than in his whole prime 2008-2013.

Are you kidding me?
Nadal lost 4 masters finals in a row to Novak in 2011.
Then he lost 3 GS finals in a row from Wimb 2011-AO 2012.
It was at the peak of his powers. Djokovic singlehandedly stopped him from being GOAT.

Federer didnt stop Nadal even once 2008-2013.

So now stopping means competition??
No one stopped Fed in 2004-2007. WEAK ERAAAAAAA.
No one stopped Djokovic in 2011. WEAK ERAAAAAAA.
That isn't how it works, right?

If AO 2009 Fed, Wimbledon 2008 Fed wasn't strong competition I don't know what is.
Even FO 2011 Fed was strong. Nadal beat him.
He should be given credit for it. It shouldn't be taken away from him for simply being better.
Nadal at his peak powers had the toughest competition and that much is indisputable no matter how you want to turn it.

Remember this is about who in the big3 had the toughest competition and it doesn't take more than 10 seconds of thinking to figure it out that Nadal is the answer to that question.

 

[conjoshruk]

Firstly I have to state I am a Federer and Nadal fan, and this is a very unbiased thread, but just what I have observed over the years. I would still say Federer is the greatest player followed by Nadal second, then either Djokovic or Sampras number 3.

Federer had a trouble free start to his grand slam wins, there weren't many notable opponents in the early years. It was a retiring Agassi, and Roddick and few others which weren't of the highest level. Nadal troubled Federer from the very first game. When Nadal and Djokovic started to emerge as multiple grand slam winners, Federer struggled. Federer also enjoyed a very weak era last year.

Djokovic hugely benefited from the end of Federer's career where his form was low, and the same with Nadal in the last few years. Nadal was obviously going to drop off quicker due to his style of play and the impact the body takes. So Djokovic enjoyed a free ride over the last few years, before 2017, and at one point held all four grand slams I believe.

Nadal had it very tough. He was playing on the men's tour when he was a child. He had to compete against who most people consider the greatest player of all time Roger Federer. Nadal was number 2 for so many years, but him and his uncle worked out a way to beat Federer at his own home, and he did so in Wimbledon 2008. Federer was untouchable on grass from 2003 to 2009, and was still in his greatest form in 2008 and Nadal had to battle on his weakest surface to beat him. He then had to compete with Prime Djokovic, against who I would probably consider the third greatest player of all time. So to think he had to compete with the greatest and third greatest players in history in their primes.

I feel like there is no truly objective way to ascertain which player of the big 3 has had the toughest competition as every tennis fan is going to have a different and unique view, which will be influenced by who they support.

 

[Robert Baratheon]

I disagree.
Nadal had Federer and Djokovic,
But Berdych, Tsonga, etc, had Federer, Djokovic and Nadal.
So all of them had tougher competition than any of the big 3.

Poor Kohlschreiber. He has endured through all of the Big4, Wawrinka-Delpo gen, Roddick gen, Nishikori-gen, Thiem-gen and the next gen.
He had the most difficult competition of all time. That is enough to crown him the GOAT.
Bring in Lew. We have a new project to work on.
Let's spread the word of the newly crowned GOAT Philip.

 

[Lew II]

Djokovic had it the toughest. Federer and Nadal were the top-2 ranked opponent in the year he played his first slam (2005) and in the year he played his last slam (2019).

Plus, his peak years collided with Murray's: 2011-16.

We could also say that the 5th best player of the era Wawrinka peaked in his era (2013-17).

 

[Lew II]

Average ranking of opponents in Slams:

Djokovic 26.8
Federer 28.1
Nadal 29.7

 

[Shaolin]

Nadal has definitely had it toughest.

He's had to compete with

-chronic wedgies
-bottle misalignment
-shot clocks
-non clay surfaces
-unexpectedly low ceilings
-bananas
-strange balding patterns
-CFS (C@pybara-Face Syndrome)
-every injury possible during the indoor season

@vive le beau jeu ! can probably add to the list of this valiant warrior.

 

[dominikk1985]

Nadal had insanely tough competition on grass and hardcourt (first prime federer then prime Novak) but his clay competion wasn't all that great and that is very he won most slams. Not many good clay specialists anymore.

 

[thrust]

If we are talking about 'History" how about Rosewall who had to deal with peak: Gonzalez, Hoad, Laver, then Newcombe, Ashe and Smith? Then there is Lendl who came up having to deal with peak: Borg, McEnroe, Connors, then Becker, Wilander and Edberg. Murray had to deal with peak: Federer, Djokovic and Nadal.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Nadal has definitely had it toughest.

He's had to compete with

-chronic wedgies
-bottle misalignment
-shot clocks
-non clay surfaces
-unexpectedly low ceilings
-bananas
-strange balding patterns
-CFS (C@pybara-Face Syndrome)
-every injury possible during the indoor season

@vive le beau jeu ! can probably add to the list of this valiant warrior.

no love for chairs and frying pans ?

 

[mika1979]

But do you think every big4 player needs to go strong for the competition to be strong.
In 2009 Fed didn't really have Djokovic going strong.
But Fed's 2009 is considered strong, is it not?
Same way Nadal's 2013 was strong. He had Djokovic in both the slams he won.
He had Djokovic in Canada, MC, ATP finals, Beijing.

It's not about one year. As a whole 2008-13 was the strongest era hands down.
In 2008 the field wasn't that special but Nadal still had Fed in the 2 slams he won.
2009 AO he had a strong Fed.
2010 he enjoyed weaker competition but then again who hasn't.
2011-2012 he had Djokovic beating him in finals everywhere.
Remember how Nadal was supposed to be ruling the world after his mammoth 2010 and no real opponents in sight?
He had finally matured as a non-clay player and Fed had finally declined and then Djokovic happened.

The point is that compared to Fed and Djokovic, Nadal has had a stronger competition.
By the time the competition got considerably weaker he was more past his prime than Djokovic.
If we had peak Nadal in 2017-2019 he would have obliterated everyone at most of the tournaments.
His decline has been more significant(especially off clay) than Fedovic because what made him a world beater on non-clay surfaces in large portions of 2008-2013 isn't there anymore, his defense.
Federer still has his most important weapon which is the serve. So does Novak.

nadal had it tougher because he is the worst out of the three

 

[Robert Baratheon]

nadal had it tougher because he is the worst out of the three

while i agree that he is indeed the worst out of the three, atleast in my book, but that isn't the reason why he had it the toughest.
He had it the toughest because most of his prime when he was in the position to dominate was filled with tough opponents.

 

[Jonas78]

Are you kidding me?
Nadal lost 4 masters finals in a row to Novak in 2011.
Then he lost 3 GS finals in a row from Wimb 2011-AO 2012.
It was at the peak of his powers. Djokovic singlehandedly stopped him from being GOAT.


So now stopping means competition??
No one stopped Fed in 2004-2007. WEAK ERAAAAAAA.
No one stopped Djokovic in 2011. WEAK ERAAAAAAA.
That isn't how it works, right?

If AO 2009 Fed, Wimbledon 2008 Fed wasn't strong competition I don't know what is.
Even FO 2011 Fed was strong. Nadal beat him.
He should be given credit for it. It shouldn't be taken away from him for simply being better.
Nadal at his peak powers had the toughest competition and that much is indisputable no matter how you want to turn it.

Remember this is about who in the big3 had the toughest competition and it doesn't take more than 10 seconds of thinking to figure it out that Nadal is the answer to that question.

First of all, Federer is the one who has been hurt the most by Novak in slams, not Nadal. So its not true that Djoko stopped Nadal from being GOAT.

Second, im not talking competition here, just saying that Federer didnt prevent Nadal from winning any slams 2008-2013, and Novak stopped him "only" three slams in a row. The other 5+ years it wasnt because of Big3. That was my point.

When people speak of "tough competition", its usually about the slams you didnt win. Some people claim Fed won much 2004-2007 because Djokodal wasnt peak. But its not like Nadal would sweep 2008-2013 if you took away Federer and Djokovic.

I dont think its that clear who had the toughest opposition. Imo 2009/2011/2012 are the 3 toughest years, and of course those 3 years are all in Nadals prime. Some also include 2011/2012 in Feds prime. Djokovic was definetly on top 2011/2012.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

First of all, Federer is the one who has been hurt the most by Novak in slams, not Nadal. So its not true that Djoko stopped Nadal from being GOAT.

Second, im not talking competition here, just saying that Federer didnt prevent Nadal from winning any slams 2008-2013, and Novak stopped him "only" three slams in a row. The other 5+ years it wasnt because of Big3. That was my point.

I dont think its that clear who had the toughest opposition. Imo 2009/2011/2012 are the 3 toughest years, and of course those 3 years are all in Nadals prime. Some also include 2011/2012 in Feds prime. Djokovic was definetly on top 2011/2012.

Federer has played more Major finals against Djokovic in the last 6 years (the time when Djokovic really raked up those numbers) than Nadal. Also, since the beginning of 2011 Federer also has played 22 HC (Djokovic's strongest and most successful surface) matches vs Djokovic vs 14 for Nadal. Same for grass, where Federer has met Djokovic 4 times vs 2 for Nadal.

 

[herronpaul]

It's quite hilarious that Fedr is leading the poll tbh.

Only one who faced the entire peak and prime of Djokovic Nadal and mugray... Nadal had it weakest most notably on clay which is basically fraud and djokovic second but nowhere near as bad as nadal

 

[er4claw]

Good to see most of TTW has their heads screwed on right but still the poll shouldn't be this close, Federer had the toughest competition in the history of tennis. How else can a GOAT play in the GOAT match (08 wimby) without GOAT competition.

 

[King No1e]

I have to agree with OP. Nadal had to deal with Peakerer in the first half of his career and Peakovic in the middle and second half. He never got a break until his comeback in 2017.
Federer hit his stride in a wide open field. Although it wasn't an exceptionally "weak era," there was undeniably a lull in the arc of tennis history as Federer rose to the top.
Djokovic had it even harder than Nadal in the 1st half of his career. He hit his peak right as Nadal hit his, with Fed and Murray still in the mix. But post-2014 the intense competition of the Big 4 era subsided slightly, and Djokovic hit unparalleled heights.

 

[Chadalina]

Good to see most of TTW has their heads screwed on right but still the poll shouldn't be this close, Federer had the toughest competition in the history of tennis. How else can a GOAT play in the GOAT match (08 wimby) without GOAT competition.

Fed had to play the previous goat Sampras as well. Both nadal and fed had to play agassi.

I still voted nadal though

 

[Tshooter]

 

[Deleted member 779124]

When it is all said and done it will most likely be Federer right now it is probably about even for all 3 give or take something.

Federer had easier start but then Nadal and Djokovic had it easier later.

 

[Third Serve]

This thread did not need a bump

 

[Deleted member 779124]

This thread did not need a bump

Sorry just wanted to make a point to some bashers.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

As a Federer and Nadal fan
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As a Federer and Nadal fan
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As a Federer and Nadal fan
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[RS]

3 posters stood out in this 35 page debate.

 

[mike danny]

I have to agree with OP. Nadal had to deal with Peakerer in the first half of his career and Peakovic in the middle and second half. He never got a break until his comeback in 2017.
Federer hit his stride in a wide open field. Although it wasn't an exceptionally "weak era," there was undeniably a lull in the arc of tennis history as Federer rose to the top.
Djokovic had it even harder than Nadal in the 1st half of his career. He hit his peak right as Nadal hit his, with Fed and Murray still in the mix. But post-2014 the intense competition of the Big 4 era subsided slightly, and Djokovic hit unparalleled heights.

When it is all said and done it will most likely be Federer right now it is probably about even for all 3 give or take something.

Federer had easier start but then Nadal and Djokovic had it easier later.

At this point, competition has evened out for all 3 of them. Nadal's slams since 2017 have been some of the easiest you'll ever see. Add in 2010 and 2013 USO and you have 10 weaker slams out of 20.

Actually, Fed's slams in 2004-2007 were harder than Nadal's since 2017.

Only trolls would say Nadal's competition has been the toughest ever after the abysmal last 5 years.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

At this point, competition has evened out for all 3 of them. Nadal's slams since 2017 have been some of the easiest you'll ever see. Add in 2010 and 2013 USO and you have 10 weaker slams out of 20.

Actually, Fed's slams in 2004-2007 were harder than Nadal's since 2017.

Only trolls would say Nadal's competition has been the toughest ever after the abysmal last 5 years.

Not wanting to take shots at another fanbase and Nadal draws here but i think none any of them they vastly much stronger or weaker competition than the other.

 

[mike danny]

Not wanting to take shots at another fanbase and Nadal draws here but i think none any of them they vastly much stronger or weaker competition than the other.

Competition has evened out for all of them, period. This is not 2013 anymore when you could make valid arguments for Rafa/Novak. This is 2021 and they have certainly inflated their resumes in the last 5 years since 2016.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Competition has evened out for all of them, period. This is not 2013 anymore when you could make valid arguments for Rafa/Novak. This is 2021 and they have certainly inflated their resumes in the last 5 years since 2016.

Agree.

2011-2013 > 2007-2009 > 2004-2006 > 2014-2016 > 2017 to now is how i view it.

 

[ForehandRF]

Competition has evened out for all of them, period. This is not 2013 anymore when you could make valid arguments for Rafa/Novak. This is 2021 and they have certainly inflated their resumes in the last 5 years since 2016.

Epic fail for the weak era riders and they didn't see it coming in 2013

 

[RS]

Nadal winning the new poll

 

[ForehandRF]

Nadal winning the new poll

Not so fast

 

[Sport]

LOL at people unobjectively voting for Federer with Phillippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick and Oldgassi. Empirical proof this forum is ruled by Federer fans.

 

[Sport]

Nadal winning the new poll

As it should be. What else do you expect? Peak Federer and peak Djokovic >>>>> Phillippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick abd Oldgassi.

 

[mike danny]

LOL at people unobjectively voting for Federer with Phillippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick and Oldgassi. Empirical proof this forum is ruled by Federer fans.

LOL at Nadal winning the poll with the crapfest that the last 5 years have been.

2004-2007 is old news, buddy. The last 5 years have been far worse than that.

Nadal has also won 10 slams against non-peak Fedovic so get off your high horse.

 

[ForehandRF]

As it should be. What else do you expect? Peak Federer and peak Djokovic >>>>> Phillippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick abd Oldgassi.

It's about their entire careers.We are not in 2006.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

As it should be. What else do you expect? Peak Federer and peak Djokovic >>>>> Phillippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt, Roddick abd Oldgassi.

Letting the Federer hate you have get to you.

Federer faced Scud and Baghdatis in 2 slam finals then you group Hewitt and Roddick and Agassi with them

 

[Sunny014]

Nadal having it tough because he is a claycourter.
As simple as that.

It is like saying, maths is not someone's cup of tea so that person had it tough, obviously ... duhh !!!

 

[Sunny014]

Nadal enjoyed 2 cheap US Opens .... made last rounds of wimbledon after struggling for many years in the 2010s... so much for having it tough.

Once upon a time oldies found it tough on grass vs youngsters, now things r reverse

 

[Sport]

Nadal has also won 10 slams against non-peak Fedovic so get off your high horse.

Yes, LOL. So Nadal wins a Slam against Djokovic and it doesn't count because he wasn't facing Federer right? LOL.

Federer won 13 Slams without facing either Nadal or Djokovic during his career.

Federer was at his peak at RG 2008, WB 2008 and the AO 2009. He simply had a lower peak level than Nadal. Without Nadal, Federer would have achieved a NCYGS between 2008 and 2009.

You just simply define peak in a way that it ends in 2007 to excuse Federer's losses to Nadal.