Nadal has lost just 3 Sets at Roland Garros over the past 6 years.

helterskelter said:
As he has got older, Nadal has got worse at playing his peers, but has got even more efficient at beating lesser players handily. So, it's no surprise that he's not dropping sets these days. It's just a shame that he has no peers at Roland Garros.

Still, perhaps Djokovic can take a set this year in the semis. If not, Nadal might well win the title without dropping a set again.
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He still should not be winning this easily every time.
 
Beckerserve said:
He is much slower and more error prone. Sinner is going to be hardest match of his career at RG.
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He has won the past 32 sets he has played at Roland Garros, 30 of them in the last 8 months, defeating Novak, Diego & Sinner all in straight sets.

There's just not a single difference between the 34 year old Nadal who defeated Sinner in straight sets 8 months ago and the current one.

Actually there is, he won Rome this time defeating Shapovalov, Sinner, Zverev & Djokovic in route to the title unlike last year when he was destroyed by Diego..
 
Stats don’t really bear this out too well considering the competition.

2017 Nadal was excellent, certainly top 5 for him at RG I’d say.

2018 was pretty vulnerable by his standards. I think he lucked out a bit with the rain in the QF. That match could have gone five.

2019 was better than 2018 I think but still not quite at his best.

2020 was pretty shoddy up until the SF, but he played a great final.
 
mike danny said:
Don't change the subject. You received a big egg on your face last year with all the Djokovic Open stuff. They even played indoors and Nadal manhandled him.
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It doesn't mean the conditions are not perfect for Djokovic. Nadal just surprised everyone with his level in the final. It is unlikely that he can repeat this performance again.
 
StrongRule said:
It doesn't mean the conditions are not perfect for Djokovic. Nadal just surprised everyone with his level in the final. It is unlikely that he can repeat this performance again.
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Point is, it happened. Anyone can make the argument that something is unlikely to happen again, but the fact that it happened shows that maybe Djokovic isn't so favored at the Djokovic open after all.

Think about it. If it was a demolition job indoors, what do you think will happen outdoors in a SF?
 
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mike danny said:
Point is, it happened. Anyone can make the argument that something is unlikely happen again, but the fact that it happened shows that maybe Djokovic isn't so favored at the Djokovic open afterwards.

Think about it. If it was a demolition job indoors, what do you think will happen outdoors in a SF?
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It’s different, Djokovic didn’t care about RG back then. Now he cares again.
 
Third Serve said:
Stats don’t really bear this out too well considering the competition.

2017 Nadal was excellent, certainly top 5 for him at RG I’d say.

2018 was pretty vulnerable by his standards. I think he lucked out a bit with the rain in the QF. That match could have gone five.

2019 was better than 2018 I think but still not quite at his best.

2020 was pretty shoddy up until the SF, but he played a great final.
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2017 >>> 2020 >> 2019 > 2018 for me.
 
mike danny said:
Thiem single-handedly saves that generation from absolute irrelevancy. So he is good.

But if he is the best the Lost Gen could produce, then it still remains the weakest ever.
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Tbh Thiem is sorta in between next and lost gen. He’s a lot older than the actual next gen but he didn’t come out the same time that Nishikori/Raonic/Dimitrov did when they gave everyone false hope at becoming multi slam champions
 
clout said:
Tbh Thiem is sorta in between next and lost gen. He’s a lot older than the actual next gen but he didn’t come out the same time that Nishikori/Raonic/Dimitrov did when they gave everyone false hope at becoming multi slam champions
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He is a Lost Genner that blossomed later.

A similar case is probably Davydenko who blossomed way later than his contemporaries, but is still part of the Fed gen even though he became a top player the same year Nadal did.

Or Fernando Verdasco. 2 years younger than Fed, but peaked in 2009 when Nadal was no.1. Still part of the Fed gen.
 
Sets lost by Nadal at Roland Garros :

2005 : Grosjean (1), Federer (1), Puerta (1)
2006 : Mathieu (1), Hewitt (1), Federer (1)
2007 : Federer (1)
2008 :
2009 : Soderling (3)
2010 :
2011 : Isner (2), Federer (1)
2012 : Djokovic (1)
2013 : Brands (1), Klizan (1), Djokovic (2)
2014 : Ferrer (1), Djokovic (1)
2015 : Sock (1), Djokovic (3)
2016 :
2017 :
2018 : Diego (1)
2019 : Goffin (1), Thiem (1)
2020 :
2021 :

The difference between 2010-2014 Nadal and 2016-2021 Nadal at RG is the lack of Peak clay Djokovic, that's it.

I've said the rest of the clay field is better.

Isner, Brands, Klizan & Ferrer were not better than what we currently have.
 
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mike danny said:
Point is, it happened. Anyone can make the argument that something is unlikely to happen again, but the fact that it happened shows that maybe Djokovic isn't so favored at the Djokovic open after all.

Think about it. If it was a demolition job indoors, what do you think will happen outdoors in a SF?
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Well, last time they played in a semifinal they had their closest RG match. And that was on a hot day. And now Djokovic has a very big serve, which works even on slower courts.
 
mike danny said:
Yep, pretty much.

The decline of grass is so sad. The younger guys are too pretentious to learn to play on a surface that plays even remotely different.

Even MUGS like Raonic and Dimitrov found a way to play good tennis on grass, so why can't these guys?
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You might be right, but I think you're being a bit too harsh.

Medvedev's break out was in the summer hardcourt season in 2019, after Wimbledon, and it hasn't been held since, yet. In 2018 he lost in 5 to higher ranked, and seeded Mannarino and in 2019 also in 5 to Goffin. Both in the 3rd round.
Tsitsipas in 2018 lost to Isner in straights, but pushed him to 2 tie breaks in the 4th round. He could have gone deep in that one. He did lose in the first round next time to Fabbiano, so still too early to tell which one was a fluke.
Zverev has a game that could translate to grass, but he a headcase either in slams or in Bo5, or both. But I think it has more to do with this than the surface.
Berrettini made it to the 4th round in 2019, where he lost to Federer in straights. Like any young player was gonna challenge Fed in 2019... still, that was also his breakout season. Had won a couple of clay titles that year, and later made the semis at the USO. With that serve and forehand could be a dark horse. He probably lacks other things, like net game and a more decent backhand; but I imagine him as a dangerous opponent this edition.

I think that Tsistipas and Medvedev will make it to the second week this year. Zverev is more of a mistery. Sometimes he seems to be getting it together, and all of the sudden he goes 5 sets against a qualifier...

Overall I think this might be the most interesting edition of Wimbledon in years for various reasons. The biggest problem with the next gen is that they seem to be waiting for the big3 to retire to start winning slams, and don't realise that won't happen until they start beating them.
 
MadariKatu said:
You might be right, but I think you're being a bit too harsh.

Medvedev's break out was in the summer hardcourt season in 2019, after Wimbledon, and it hasn't been held since, yet. In 2018 he lost in 5 to higher ranked, and seeded Mannarino and in 2019 also in 5 to Goffin. Both in the 3rd round.
Tsitsipas in 2018 lost to Isner in straights, but pushed him to 2 tie breaks in the 4th round. He could have gone deep in that one. He did lose in the first round next time to Fabbiano, so still too early to tell which one was a fluke.
Zverev has a game that could translate to grass, but he a headcase either in slams or in Bo5, or both. But I think it has more to do with this than the surface.
Berrettini made it to the 4th round in 2019, where he lost to Federer in straights. Like any young player was gonna challenge Fed in 2019... still, that was also his breakout season. Had won a couple of clay titles that year, and later made the semis at the USO. With that serve and forehand could be a dark horse. He probably lacks other things, like net game and a more decent backhand; but I imagine him as a dangerous opponent this edition.

I think that Tsistipas and Medvedev will make it to the second week this year. Zverev is more of a mistery. Sometimes he seems to be getting it together, and all of the sudden he goes 5 sets against a qualifier...

Overall I think this might be the most interesting edition of Wimbledon in years for various reasons. The biggest problem with the next gen is that they seem to be waiting for the big3 to retire to start winning slams, and don't realise that won't happen until they start beating them.
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Yeah, this year I see a Next Genner reach at least the QF.

Berrettini even won a grass court title in 2019.

But Medvedev losing to Goffin was in no way a positive.
 
Should we believe Big 3 guys like Federer when they say they got better with age in their early-mid Thirties? In spite of the lesser footspeed, they are so much better tactically and mentally that they seem to know how to keep matches short and win efficiently. Nadal and Djokovic seem to be winning their favorite Slams easier in their mid-thirties than in their physical prime and Federer would have done so also if he didn’t run into Djokovic in four Slam finals.

Good singles players in their thirties and early forties are sometimes tougher to beat in USTA league play too at the 4.5 level as their tactics, versatility and strategy changes give them an edge against young guys who play the same tactics throughout a match.
 
mike danny said:
Yeah, this year I see a Next Genner reach at least the QF.

Berrettini even won a grass court title in 2019.

But Medvedev losing to Goffin was in no way a positive.
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I didn't know that Matteo had won grass titles; good to know.
That with Goffin, I get your point, but I was trying to say that it was before he really got consistently deep at tournaments, winning some by beating Djokovic in the way to some. Also that he wasn't routined. So, yeah, maybe not good, but also not as horrible as his clay record might have made him look on natural surfaces.
 
StrongRule said:
Well, I bring convincing arguments.
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Yes, you do.

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Leandro2045 said:
I don't buy this excuse that the clay field is declining.

Apart from Novak not being on his peak Clay level there's just not any difference regarding the rest of the tour.

In the early 2010s Nadal was losing sets in RG to the likes of Isner, Klizan & Brands, these are definitely not better clay court players than what we currently have on Clay..
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Brands was running hot as the sun and Isner is The Isner

no excuse for Klizan... uh maybe rafa forgot he's a lefty until the second set?
 
mike danny said:
Yeah, this year I see a Next Genner reach at least the QF.

Berrettini even won a grass court title in 2019.

But Medvedev losing to Goffin was in no way a positive.
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Med breakout didn't started then , he was still figuring out his game, it was Cincinnati semi that he decided to go for bigger second serve or started coming to net, I think if he survived couple of round, you will see a really dangerous player their
 
Leandro2045 said:
He has won the past 32 sets he has played at Roland Garros, 30 of them in the last 8 months, defeating Novak, Diego & Sinner all in straight sets.

There's just not a single difference between the 34 year old Nadal who defeated Sinner in straight sets 8 months ago and the current one.

Actually there is, he won Rome this time defeating Shapovalov, Sinner, Zverev & Djokovic in route to the title unlike last year when he was destroyed by Diego..
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Sinner may well benefit from the experience past year and in Rome. That is what worries me.
That said if it is hot Monday musetti could take out Djokovic as he has a bit of Stan about him
 
Jim Courier said the other day that Nadal has lost 27 sets in his French Open career, in what is now 105 matches. That's basically 1 set lost for every 4 matches on average. If you take out the 2 losses, that's 21 sets lost in 103 matches, basically 1 set lost for every 5 matches. He's also had 4 years (2008, 2010, 2017, 2020) of winning the title without losing a set.
 
Leandro2045 said:
Sets lost by Nadal at Roland Garros :

2005 : Grosjean (1), Federer (1), Puerta (1)
2006 : Hewitt (1), Federer (1)
2007 : Federer (1)
2008 :
2009 : Soderling (3)
2010 :
2011 : Isner (2), Federer (1)
2012 : Djokovic (1)
2013 : Brands (1), Klizan (1), Djokovic (2)
2014 : Ferrer (1), Djokovic (1)
2015 : Sock (1), Djokovic (3)
2016 :
2017 :
2018 : Diego (1)
2019 : Goffin (1), Thiem (1)
2020 :
2021 :

The difference between 2010-2014 Nadal and 2016-2021 Nadal at RG is the lack of Peak clay Djokovic, that's it.

I've said the rest of the clay field is better.

Isner, Brands, Klizan & Ferrer were not better than what we currently have.
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Don't forget Mathieu in 2006. That was one of Nadal's toughest matches in his French Open career. Nadal won 5-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4, after 4 hours and 53 minutes. After just over 2 hours of play, it was 1-1 in the second set. This was also the famous match where Nadal choked on a bit of banana.
 
Leandro2045 said:
Sets lost by Nadal at Roland Garros :

2005 : Grosjean (1), Federer (1), Puerta (1)
2006 : Hewitt (1), Federer (1)
2007 : Federer (1)
2008 :
2009 : Soderling (3)
2010 :
2011 : Isner (2), Federer (1)
2012 : Djokovic (1)
2013 : Brands (1), Klizan (1), Djokovic (2)
2014 : Ferrer (1), Djokovic (1)
2015 : Sock (1), Djokovic (3)
2016 :
2017 :
2018 : Diego (1)
2019 : Goffin (1), Thiem (1)
2020 :
2021 :

The difference between 2010-2014 Nadal and 2016-2021 Nadal at RG is the lack of Peak clay Djokovic, that's it.

I've said the rest of the clay field is better.

Isner, Brands, Klizan & Ferrer were not better than what we currently have.
Click to expand...

Add Paul Henri Mathieu (1) in 2006 (5 h , R32)
 
Mustard said:
Don't forget Mathieu in 2006. That was one of Nadal's toughest matches in his French Open career. Nadal won 5-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4, after 4 hours and 53 minutes. After just over 2 hours of play, it was 1-1 in the second set. This was also the famous match where Nadal choked on a bit of banana.
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Beat me to it!
 
Mustard said:
Don't forget Mathieu in 2006. That was one of Nadal's toughest matches in his French Open career. Nadal won 5-7, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4, after 4 hours and 53 minutes. After just over 2 hours of play, it was 1-1 in the second set. This was also the famous match where Nadal choked on a bit of banana.
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Thanks, don't know how the hell i missed that one.
 
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