Nadal himself confirms he asked for Bernardes removal from his matches

[Chanwan]

Jeremy Shales ring any bells?
True, but that's from a different time.


It's not wrong to ask. If a player believes he has been consistently receiving poor calls from a single official, he should have the right to ask tour officials to consider removing the umpire from his matches. The tour, in turn, is well within its rights to accept or refuse this suggestion. What's wrong is that whoever replaces Bernardes will likely not call Nadal out on the violations Bernardes has enforced in the past. This is a problem with the tour rules and officiation, not with players exceeding their sphere of influence.

It's wrong to ask on the grounds Rafa is asking - he's asking because this umpire is not as lenient as the others with respect to Rafa's time issues.

Apparently, it's not that uncommon though if we are to believe this:
"ATP spokesman Simon Higson said the tour wouldn't comment on any specific decisions related to how it picks chair umpires for matches. Speaking generally about a player asking for a certain umpire to be kept away from his matches, Higson wrote in an email: "Requests such as this are not uncommon, either from the player or the umpire."

Asked Tuesday whether he had ever made such a request, Novak Djokovic said he hadn't -- nor did he think it a regular occurrence."

 

[Smasher08]

I think it's pretty from this that the ATP needs to ditch the 25-second clock and related time violation. They rarely enforce it and now this,so what is the point?

The vast majority of players respect it, resulting in no need for enforcement.

Until Mr "Is good for tennis, no?" came along.

 

[Inanimate_object]

It's wrong to ask on the grounds Rafa is asking - he's asking because this umpire is not as lenient as the others with respect to Rafa's time issues.

Apparently, it's not that uncommon though if we are to believe this:
"ATP spokesman Simon Higson said the tour wouldn't comment on any specific decisions related to how it picks chair umpires for matches. Speaking generally about a player asking for a certain umpire to be kept away from his matches, Higson wrote in an email: "Requests such as this are not uncommon, either from the player or the umpire."

Asked Tuesday whether he had ever made such a request, Novak Djokovic said he hadn't -- nor did he think it a regular occurrence."

You asked for occurrences, and Jeremy Shales is the most notorious case. He ****sed off the biggest names in the sport and look what happened to him?

Higson makes sense to me. Players want umpires who they perceive to be fair to them. Umpires want to avoid any conflict of interests that could arise between officiation and players. Again, I don't think Nadal is wrong to ask. He believes he has been wronged repeatedly and consistently by an umpire. The problem is lack of clarity and uniformity about professional tennis rules. If every umpire was charged with enforcing the time-limit violation, the ATP would have no reason not to grant Nadal's request, and Nadal in turn (if his qualms over Bernardes are strictly about time violations) would have no reason to issue the request in the first place.

 

[Possum]

I could see something like that happening in the NBA...a referee calls traveling on LeBron when he does his "crab dribble" where he takes 4-5 steps without dribbling. LeBron, used to traveling, complains about the ref and asks that he not referee anymore of his games because he likes to get away with breaking rules.

 

[Shaolin]

The list of Nadal demands grows daily.

Next he'll be requesting that his opponent be removed from the court because he hinders his chance to win.

 

[britam25]

As is this nonsensical response from you...

Yup, you can practically set your watch by his defense of certain players. Nadal IS scum, has always BEEN scum, and will always BE scum, and this is just another example of that-not to mention the lack of backbone from the tennis hierarchy. There was an NBA referee some years ago who, tapes showed, had a clear bias against the San Antonio Spurs in general, and the mild mannered Tim Duncan in particular. He was initially fired, then was allowed to come back, but he didn't referee any Spurs game for a long time. Same with the umpire who screwed over Serena on at least 3 calls in the decisive third set of her match many years ago vs Capriate(an outrage that, at least, had the positive effect of ushering Hawkeye much more quickly). But here, the ump was merely doing what SHOULD be done a lot more, not allowing Nadal to continually break the rules with impunity. They oughta say, sorry, we stand behind our guy, if he's graded well, he may be umpiring your match with Novak...if you get that far.

 

[Chanwan]

You asked for occurrences, and Jeremy Shales is the most notorious case. He ****sed off the biggest names in the sport and look what happened to him?

Higson makes sense to me. Players want umpires who they perceive to be fair to them. Umpires want to avoid any conflict of interests that could arise between officiation and players. Again, I don't think Nadal is wrong to ask. He believes he has been wronged repeatedly and consistently by an umpire. The problem is lack of clarity and uniformity about professional tennis rules. If every umpire was charged with enforcing the time-limit violation, the ATP would have no reason not to grant Nadal's request, and Nadal in turn (if his qualms over Bernardes are strictly about time violations) would have no reason to issue the request in the first place.

That too. I think we're saying pretty much the same thing from different perspectives.
I personally think it's a problem that a player has a say in an umpire being removed after that umpire ruled against him within the confines of the rules.
And it's an even bigger problem that the ATP granted it, basically acknowledging that time violations shouldn't result in a loss of first serve - and that after they saying that they wanted to be stricter on it

 

[tennis_commentator]

Nadal definitely has the best personality in the world, never a dull moment.
I can see why the forum never stops talking about him.
Its great that tennis has someone to keep it entertaining both on and off the court.
Tennis is safe for at least 4 more years (Roig said Nadal will be competing for slams at age 33).

 

[ImageIsEverything]

I kind of enjoy seeing Rafa call the shots. To borrow a noxing phrase , the A side dictates the terms of the fight.

 

[Sysyphus]

That too. I think we're saying pretty much the same thing from different perspectives.
I personally think it's a problem that a player has a say in an umpire being removed after that umpire ruled against him within the confines of the rules.
And it's an even bigger problem that the ATP granted it, basically acknowledging that time violations shouldn't result in a loss of first serve - and that after they saying that they wanted to be stricter on it

It's no doubt a problem. It sends out the wrong signals, creates a an unfair and unnecessary chasm between players with regards to the influence they can exert, and it's a slippery slope in many ways. It legitimizes rule-breaking further and dissuades other umpires from upholding the rules.

 

[cc0509]

It's wrong to ask and it's wrong from the ATP to grant the wish. Who's the next umpire to dare to not only give Rafa a time violation, but also take away a first serve? I doubt we'll see it happening any time soon despite Rafa averaging quite a bit over the limit in every single match he plays.

So then let them put a shot clock in already. Obviously umpire discretion is not working and elite players will always get preferential treatment. That will NEVER change. Shot clock is the answer.

 

[pound cat]

From Sportsnet.ca

not (on a) court at the same time for a while."

Nadal said he felt Bernardes was "not enough respectful" during a match in Rio de Janeiro, when Nadal put his shorts on improperly and asked if he could go to the locker room to change. Nadal said Bernardes told him he would receive a time warning.

"For me, that’s not fair," Nadal said.

At Roland Garros, the French tennis federation handles chair umpire assignments. A federation spokesperson said there was no request by Nadal to avoid Bernardes during the French Open, but added that it’s common knowledge the two have a tense relationship so it makes sense not to put them on the same court.

ATP spokesman Simon Higson said the tour wouldn’t comment on any specific decisions related to how it picks chair umpires for matches. Speaking generally about a player asking for a certain umpire to be kept away from his matches, Higson wrote in an email:

"Requests such as this are not uncommon, either from the player or the umpire."

And that's the bottom line.

 

[Mustard]

It's no doubt a problem. It sends out the wrong signals, creates a an unfair and unnecessary chasm between players with regards to the influence they can exert, and it's a slippery slope in many ways. It legitimizes rule-breaking further and dissuades other umpires from upholding the rules.

In terms of the time rule of 20 seconds, it's a good thing that umpires are being dissuaded from enforcing it.

 

[President]

The full context:

RAFAEL NADAL: Yes, it was my request, and the ATP talking about -- well, I asked if it's possible, but nothing personal against him 100%. I respect him like umpire, I respect him like person, and I consider him a good person more than that. So for me is not -- I am not happy with that situation. That's the first thing. Because I would love to have Bernardes on the court again. Will happen, but, you know, I think for both of us it is better to have a break, you know. We had some problems. For me he hasn't -- he was not enough respectful with me in Rio de Janeiro . That was my feeling when I put my shorts the other way. He wants to put me warnings four times, that's fine. But if I put my shorts other way and I ask him if I can change my shorts, I can put my shorts the right way, and his answer is, Yes, but you will receive a time warning. For me, that's not fair, you know, (smiling.) When something like that, something like this did happen on court, that I think is not fair. I think is, you know, shows not respect, because I cannot play a full game with the shorts the other way. So it's better. It's better to be away for a while. That's all. No personal problem with him, no? Seriously, I'm not saying that because I am in front of you. I respect him, I like him, but he was not right. And I believe that is for relationship and everything is better to be away for a bit.

I still think Nadal is being a baby, but he isn't asking the guy to never umpire his matches again or something. It's not as bad as some people in this thread are insinuating. Still, he never should have asked in the first place...

 

[Sysyphus]

In terms of the time rule of 20 seconds, it's a good thing that umpires are being dissuaded from enforcing it.

Plenty of tennis player show that it's very possible to play at a substantially faster pace than Nadal does. Systematically going through a subset of the DSM before each serve is not a self-evident right that players should have.

These are la règle du jeu, and single players shouldn't be over that.

 

[Chanwan]

So then let them put a shot clock in already. Obviously umpire discretion is not working and elite players will always get preferential treatment. That will NEVER change. Shot clock is the answer.

by all means. But until that actually happens, I'm all for umpires who try and enforce the time rules. And against them being removed from matches for doing so.

Seriously, after this when will the next umpire not only give Rafa a time violation, but a loss of first serve as well?
Not once in a blue moon

 

[leohaegger]

Fixed it for you.

Thanks, man. That's the word.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

Indeed! He also got the Spanish government to enact a law prohibiting testing outside of certain designated hours! [emoji38] [emoji38]

Is that why he got the gold medal from the prime minister? lol

 

[Laurie]

I take it that most would agree with me here that the ATP should never get anywhere near looking after the Grand Slam tournaments? I believe WTA Chief Exec Stacey Allastar would like to see the two bodies take control of the Majors one day.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

The list of Nadal demands grows daily.

Next he'll be requesting that his opponent be removed from the court because he hinders his chance to win.

or, he gets to choose opponents from a selection of pigeons...

oh wait...

 

[Deleted member 77403]

by all means. But until that actually happens, I'm all for umpires who try and enforce the time rules. And against them being removed from matches for doing so.

Seriously, after this when will the next umpire not only give Rafa a time violation, but a loss of first serve as well?
Not once in a blue moon

My sentiments exactly. Until the shot clock happens, the umpires are entrusted to enforce the rules. That is why they are there. Yes, they can't always be right, but you need to have some respect for authority.

 

[Backhand Smash]

Is the ATP such a joke really?

And is Rafito really this dumb?

Amazing scenes.

 

[Mustard]

Plenty of tennis player show that it's very possible to play at a substantially faster pace than Nadal does. Systematically going through a subset of the DSM before each serve is not a self-evident right that players should have.

These are la règle du jeu, and single players shouldn't be over that.

Nadal is a slow player. That's his natural game.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

From Sportsnet.ca

not (on a) court at the same time for a while."

Nadal said he felt Bernardes was "not enough respectful" during a match in Rio de Janeiro, when Nadal put his shorts on improperly and asked if he could go to the locker room to change. Nadal said Bernardes told him he would receive a time warning.

"For me, that’s not fair," Nadal said.

Go to the locker room to get a shot? No way José.

 

[Chanwan]

Nadal is a slow player. That's his natural game.

Is that how he plays a practice set with Monaco too? Not as far as I know.
And why is he much slower at important points than at 30-0 and 40-0?

My sentiments exactly. Until the shot clock happens, the umpires are entrusted to enforce the rules. That is why they are there. Yes, they can't always be right, but you need to have some respect for authority.

One would really think it was that simple. But things never are at TT...

 

[Sysyphus]

Nadal is a slow player. That's his natural game.

Yes, but he wants to compete in the game of tennis it's his job to adapt to rules of the game, and not the other way around. That should be abundantly clear.

 

[cc0509]

by all means. But until that actually happens, I'm all for umpires who try and enforce the time rules. And against them being removed from matches for doing so.

Seriously, after this when will the next umpire not only give Rafa a time violation, but a loss of first serve as well?
Not once in a blue moon

Yes, umpires should definitely enforce the rules but who is allowing Nadal or any elite player to make these requests? It is the system which is allowing it so the system itself needs to be reevaluated.

Honestly, people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary. He had a personal problem with this umpire and requested that the umpire sit out from his matches for a while. He didn't get the guy fired and it was the ATP/ITF who made the final decision, not Nadal. Again, look at the system.

 

[Chanwan]

Yes, umpires should definitely enforce the rules but who is allowing Nadal or any elite player to make these requests? It is the system which is allowing it so the system itself needs to be reevaluated.

Honestly, people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary. He had a personal problem with this umpire and requested that the umpire sit out from his matches for a while. He didn't get the guy fired and it was the ATP/ITF who made the final decision, not Nadal. Again, look at the system.

I'm looking at the system too - but I must admit that too much time between points have long been a grievance for me. Too little tennis is played and I feel I'm wasting my time watching them get ready

 

[cc0509]

I'm looking at the system too

You are going to be looking for a long time. Always follow the $$$$ for your answer.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Yes, but he wants to compete in the game of tennis it's his job to adapt to rules of the game, and not the other way around. That should be abundantly clear.

Exactly. Nadal knows full well the time between the points. Here I feel Nadal is wrong. He is natural a slow player? You mean he naturally decides to play slow despite knowing what the time limit is.

And I know he is not the only one, Djokovic has done, Del Potro has done it. They all need to follow all the rules...Oh, look he touched the net! Enforce the rule!

 

[Sysyphus]

Yes, umpires should definitely enforce the rules but who is allowing Nadal or any elite player to make these requests? It is the system which is allowing it so the system itself needs to be reevaluated.

Honestly, people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary. He had a personal problem with this umpire and requested that the umpire sit out from his matches for a while. He didn't get the guy fired and it was the ATP/ITF who made the final decision, not Nadal. Again, look at the system.

To be fair, it's not a non-issue. It's not about Nadal himself, but about the whole picture. To quote myself from the previous page:

It's no doubt a problem. It sends out the wrong signals, creates a an unfair and unnecessary chasm between players with regards to the influence they can exert, and it's a slippery slope in many ways. It legitimizes rule-breaking further and dissuades other umpires from upholding the rules.

 

[Inanimate_object]

Yes, umpires should definitely enforce the rules but who is allowing Nadal or any elite player to make these requests? It is the system which is allowing it so the system itself needs to be reevaluated.

Honestly, people are making a bigger deal out of this than is necessary. He had a personal problem with this umpire and requested that the umpire sit out from his matches for a while. He didn't get the guy fired and it was the ATP/ITF who made the final decision, not Nadal. Again, look at the system.

Agreed. People are blowing this way out of proportion. A player thought he was being treated unfairly and asked for the ATP to give him different umpires. A player has every right to question whether the officiation is being fair, and every right to complain and demand action if it is not. It is the ATP's fault if they entertain and accept such a request from a player, and doubly their fault if through the murkiness of ATP rules, someone has taken advantage and control of officiation.

 

[cc0509]

Agreed. People are blowing this way out of proportion. A player thought he was being treated unfairly and asked for the ATP to give him different umpires. A player has every right to question whether the officiation is being fair, and every right to complain and demand action if it is not. It is the ATP's fault if they entertain and accept such a request from a player, and doubly their fault if through the murkiness of ATP rules, someone has taken advantage and control of officiation.

Yep.

10yeps.

Perhaps the system needs to be looked at, not an individual elite player.

 

[cc0509]

To be fair, it's not a non-issue. It's not about Nadal himself, but about the whole picture. To quote myself from the previous page:

You are never going to get equality amongst players in any sport. If you don't follow the $$$ in any pro sport, your expectations are never going to be met and you will always be disappointed. If you follow the $$$ and accept that is the way things are done, you will be much happier and realize the situation is beyond your control.

 

[pame]

Yep.

10yeps.

Perhaps the system needs to be looked at, not an individual elite player.

Is it a slip that you said "an individual elite player", rather than "an individual player". So where's the cutoff point?

 

[Sysyphus]

You are never going to get equality amongst players in any sport. If you don't follow the $$$ in any pro sport, your expectations are never going to be met and you will always be disappointed. If you follow the $$$ and accept that is the way things are done, you will be much happier and realize the situation is beyond your control.

Yada-yada, money corrupts all etc.

An is doesn't equal an ought, and the fact that these skews will always exist doesn't legitimize more of it, and in more blatant and explicit forms. In the same way, one can say violence will always exist in the world, but that very fact doesn't justify it, and certainly not more of it.

And I don't say or believe that this is under my personal control. Merely opining on the implications of the matter.

 

[tenisdecente]

You are never going to get equality amongst players in any sport. If you don't follow the $$$ in any pro sport, your expectations are never going to be met and you will always be disappointed. If you follow the $$$ and accept that is the way things are done, you will be much happier and realize the situation is beyond your control.

Excuse me my interruption in your nice chat, but the rules are meant for that purpose, no? To be equal for all, right? I know I am living in a dream world :lol: but that is the idea, no? yes? no?

 

[Chanwan]

Yada-yada, money corrupts all etc.

An is doesn't equal an ought, and the fact that these skews will always exist doesn't legitimize more of it, and in more blatant and explicit forms. In the same way, one can say violence will always exist in the world, but that very fact doesn't justify it, and certainly not more of it.

And I don't say or believe that this is under my personal control. Merely opining on the implications of the matter.

this is how I see it too

 

[RF-18]

Agreed. People are blowing this way out of proportion. A player thought he was being treated unfairly and asked for the ATP to give him different umpires. A player has every right to question whether the officiation is being fair, and every right to complain and demand action if it is not. It is the ATP's fault if they entertain and accept such a request from a player, and doubly their fault if through the murkiness of ATP rules, someone has taken advantage and control of officiation.

Yea okey, an umpire giving a player a warning for breaking rules is very unfair, especially against nadal!

I guess Bernardes was also treating Nadal unfairly in that WTFs match, where Nadal ranted at him but was completely wrong in the end, as usual? So unfair, so much butthurt from Bernardes.

 

[mistik]

You can call me what ever you want stupid Nadal fan blah blah. Nadal has every right to lose some confidence against Bernardes and it isnt even just a time limit rule. I really think he isnt a good umpire in general. I also think if this time rule that important there needs to be a WATCH on court for everyone to see period.

 

[Smasher08]

Nadal is a slow player.

Is that why he needs constant coaching?? :lol:

 

[Inanimate_object]

Yea okey, an umpire giving a player a warning for breaking rules is very unfair, especially against nadal!

I guess Bernardes was also treating Nadal unfairly in that WTFs match, where Nadal ranted at him but was completely wrong in the end, as usual? So unfair, so much butthurt from Bernardes.

I never said what Nadal was complaining about was rational or warranted. I was defending Nadal's right to complain about it, and the ATP's right and responsibility to field such requests and determine the appropriate outcome. You act as if Nadal's trying to overthrow the sacrosanct institution of tennis.

 

[Smasher08]

I never said what Nadal was complaining about was rational or warranted. I was defending Nadal's right to complain about it, and the ATP's right and responsibility to field such requests and determine the appropriate outcome. You act as if Nadal's trying to overthrow the sacrosanct institution of tennis.

Actually Nadal was knowingly trying to secure a competitive advantage both directly and indirectly: directly through the removal of an umpire who wouldn't permit him to break the rules, and indirectly through sending the message that he is to be given free reign.

He knows he's been breaking rules for years. He believes he is entitled to continue doing so.

 

[Kharion]

I never said what Nadal was complaining about was rational or warranted. I was defending Nadal's right to complain about it, and the ATP's right and responsibility to field such requests and determine the appropriate outcome. You act as if Nadal's trying to overthrow the sacrosanct institution of tennis.

I'm sorry but a can't see how anyone can defend Nadal about this, even deflecting the blame to the ITF doesn't seem right to me

Whenever he doesn't respect the 25 seconds rule, people go out and say it's not his fault, it's the umpire role to enforce the rule and if the umpire doesn't do it it's not the player's fault

Now that for once an umpire enforces the rules, Nadal makes the ITF ban him, and he's not to blame? I get that the ITF shouldn't have granted his request but come on.. the guy is the equivalent of a real life gangster bribing the system

 

[lim]

Does the atp ever not bend over backwards for ralph?

 

[Chanwan]

Actually Nadal was knowingly trying to secure a competitive advantage both directly and indirectly: directly through the removal of an umpire who wouldn't permit him to break the rules, and indirectly through sending the message that he is to be given free reign.

He knows he's been breaking rules for years. He believes he is entitled to continue doing so.

this, aside from the ATP bending to his will, is the crux of the matter.

 

[Inanimate_object]

Actually Nadal was knowingly trying to secure a competitive advantage both directly and indirectly: directly through the removal of an umpire who wouldn't permit him to break the rules, and indirectly through sending the message that he is to be given free reign.

He knows he's been breaking rules for years. He believes he is entitled to continue doing so.

As you are an authority on the thoughts and motives of Rafael Nadal, would you kindly tell me his favourite desert, and where he stands on the ongoing hostilities and escalation between Russia and Finland?

Nadal believes he is entitled to a fair umpire, and also believes Bernardes was not being fair. This belief is Nadal's to make. And acting on this belief, he asked for the ATP to right this perceived wrong. The act is not wrong or contentious. You can run circles around arguing if Nadal is correct in his assessment of Bernardes, but you cannot say that a player who believes he is being given the short end of the stick has no right to speak up for himself.

 

[tenisdecente]

Actually Nadal was knowingly trying to secure a competitive advantage both directly and indirectly: directly through the removal of an umpire who wouldn't permit him to break the rules, and indirectly through sending the message that he is to be given free reign.

He knows he's been breaking rules for years. He believes he is entitled to continue doing so.

100% agree with the first part. Message sent by ATP with this decision is so WRONG in so many aspects.... jeez and some people are try to minimize this as "not a big deal?" :lol:

 

[ilovetennis]

Nadal is ”THE” GOAT-Whiner. Everyone knows it, including his Fans.

 

[RF-18]

I never said what Nadal was complaining about was rational or warranted. I was defending Nadal's right to complain about it, and the ATP's right and responsibility to field such requests and determine the appropriate outcome. You act as if Nadal's trying to overthrow the sacrosanct institution of tennis.