Nadal is better than same age Federer at USO

[Towny]

Well it isn't as Federer was clearly more successful statistically speaking in 2006 than he was in 2015. All you need to do is watch Federer playing in 2006 and compare it to 2015 to see the difference. He obviously played great at points in 2015 but was nowhere near as consistent (Seppi anyone?) and his peak level was lower.

 

[Objective observer]

Well what do you think? Federer being peak in 2015 is a reality purely made up by some Djokovic fans, guess why?!? Even Bullzillions wouldnt argue Fed was peak 2015...

Just saying it is a hypothetical
If you can be so sure of federer 2006 being better than 2015 even though they never played then I can also be sure Nadal is better than Federer

 

[Objective observer]

Well it isn't as Federer was clearly more successful statistically speaking in 2006 than he was in 2015. All you need to do is watch Federer playing in 2006 and compare it to 2015 to see the difference. He obviously played great at points in 2015 but was nowhere near as consistent (Seppi anyone?) and his peak level was lower.

Your opinion
Many people think federer was better in 2015 than 2006

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Your opinion
Many people think federer was better in 2015 than 2006

Yeah, Djokovic fans with an agenda

 

[Towny]

Many people think federer was better in 2015 than 2006

Do you deny he was more consistent in 2006 or was better in that regard in 2015 too?

 

[Objective observer]

Do you deny he was more consistent in 2006 or was better in that regard in 2015 too?

Again this is beside the point
The point is its a hypothetical so you can't be fully sure

 

[Objective observer]

Do you deny he was more consistent in 2006 or was better in that regard in 2015 too?

Federer in 2012 had a higher win percentage than 2009 was he better in 2012?

 

[Towny]

The point is its a hypothetical so you can't be fully sure

How is it beside the point? Federer lost one match the whole year to someone not named Nadal. He lost 6 matches to people other than Djokovic in 2015. That is significant. Saying Federer was better at Wimbledon 2003 compared to 2006 is an opinion because the levels are so close. Saying Federer was better at Wimbledon 2003 than Wimbledon 2013 isn't an opinion

 

[Towny]

Federer in 2012 had a higher win percentage than 2009 was he better in 2012?

He was more consistent in 2012, outside of slams anyway. His consistency was way below par for his prime in 2009

 

[Objective observer]

How is it beside the point? Federer lost one match the whole year to someone not named Nadal. He lost 6 matches to people other than Djokovic in 2015. That is significant. Saying Federer was better at Wimbledon 2003 compared to 2006 is an opinion because the levels are so close. Saying Federer was better at Wimbledon 2003 than Wimbledon 2013 isn't an opinion

OK federer in 2008 was worse than 2015 then?

 

[Towny]

OK federer in 2008 was worse than 2015 then?

Outside slams and off clay, yes

 

[abmk]

Literally everything is a hypothetical here
Saying federer is better in 2006 than 2015 is also a hypothetical BTW

no, it isn't.
its an opinon (based on records, stats and watching those years).

learn the meaning of the word hypothetical and the difference b/w opinion&hypothetical.

 

[abmk]

He still would have beaten Djokovic and then Federer in the final
Are you acting like Federer would be tough for him in 2010? Lol

yes, lol.
because you are clueless not realising a nadal draw with soderling-> djokovic -> federer would've been very tough for him.
secondly, federer was playing well in USO 2010 before the SF. played well from 1R-QF. SF was a one-off where he didn't play well.
also even with 2 previous tough matches for Nadal (in a hypothetical draw).......If the federer from the SF shows up, he loses to Nadal, he loses. But if federer from 1R to QF shows up, it'd be close (slight edge for Nadal at best)

 

[Objective observer]

no, it isn't.
its an opinon (based on records, stats and watching those years).

learn the meaning of the word hypothetical and the difference b/w opinion&hypothetical.

OK it's an opinion
Same thing it's an opinion that Nadal is better than Federer

 

[Objective observer]

yes, lol.
because you are clueless not realising a nadal draw with soderling-> djokovic -> federer would've been very tough for him.
secondly, federer was playing well in USO 2010 before the SF. played well from 1R-QF. SF was a one-off.
also even with 2 previous tough matches for Nadal .......If the federer from the SF shows up, he loses to Nadal, he loses. But if federer from 1R to QF shows up, it'd be close (slight edge for Nadal at best)

Federer couldn't play his best in the most important match ie the semi final
How could he play much better in the final against his nightmare opponent?

 

[abmk]

OK it's an opinion
Same thing it's an opinion that Nadal is better than Federer

yes, I agree. Nadal is better than Federer at poker and fishing .
Oh wait, we're talking about tennis ?
then no ...only on clay , nowhere else ...
not on grass, not on slow HC, not on fast HC, not indoors, not carpet.

 

[RS]

Yeah, Djokovic fans with an agenda

Federer thinks so to sometimes. As do pundits. It isn’t only Djokovic fans.
It’s a opinion yes. Federer said so after Cincy 2015 but that could be due to putting together maybe the best tourney of his career.

 

[Objective observer]

yes, lol.
because you are clueless not realising a nadal draw with soderling-> djokovic -> federer would've been very tough for him.
secondly, federer was playing well in USO 2010 before the SF. played well from 1R-QF. SF was a one-off where he didn't play well.
also even with 2 previous tough matches for Nadal (in a hypothetical draw).......If the federer from the SF shows up, he loses to Nadal, he loses. But if federer from 1R to QF shows up, it'd be close (slight edge for Nadal at best)

Not slight edge it would be a big edge
When did federer raise his level against Nadal
He got destroyed in Miami 2011 lost in AO 2012
There's no way he could come close to beating Nadal in USO 2010

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Federer thinks so to sometimes. As do pundits. It isn’t only Djokovic fans.
It’s a opinion yes. Federer said so after Cincy 2015 but that could be due to putting together maybe the best tourney of his career.

Fed says so for confidence even though he really doesn't believe it. Pundits say so to sell the sport.

 

[RS]

Fed says so for confidence even though he really doesn't believe it. Pundits say so to sell the sport.

I think it could be due to disbelief of his performance at that age. He still said it. He showed images of hide 2006 form big time at Dubai,Brisbane,Cincy as well to a lesser extent in Wimbeldon and the USO of 2015.
I think some people might actually believe it even though I didn’t before.

 

[abmk]

Not slight edge it would be a big edge
When did federer raise his level against Nadal

I'm saying if Federer played at his 1R-QF level. SF was a one-off. so that's not raising level.

He got destroyed in Miami 2011 lost in AO 2012
There's no way he could come close to beating Nadal in USO 2010

yes, and Nadal got beat at YEC 10, destroyed at YEC 11 and beat comfortably in Indian Wells 2012. So ?

 

[abmk]

Federer couldn't play his best in the most important match ie the semi final
How could he play much better in the final against his nightmare opponent?

so you telling me Nadal/Djokovic have always played their best in semi/final.
they haven't had a one-off match with a dip ?

In any case, my point. was had ifs and conditions

"because you are clueless not realising a nadal draw with soderling-> djokovic -> federer would've been very tough for him.
secondly, federer was playing well in USO 2010 before the SF. played well from 1R-QF. SF was a one-off.
also even with 2 previous tough matches for Nadal .......If the federer from the SF shows up, he loses to Nadal, he loses. But if federer from 1R to QF shows up, it'd be close (slight edge for Nadal at best) "

there are other scenarios as well.
Federer gets an easy draw, so a one-off average/below par perf. in either QF or SF doesn't matter.
Nadal gets Soderling, Djokovic.
so can't keep form/intensity in a hypothetical final.
or gets beat by Soderling/Djokovic...

 

[Objective observer]

I'm saying if Federer played at his 1R-QF level. SF was a one-off. so that's not raising level.



yes, and Nadal got beat at YEC 10, destroyed at YEC 11 and beat comfortably in Indian Wells 2012. So ?

There's no way he would raise his level against Nadal if he couldn't do it against Djokovic

 

[Objective observer]

so you telling me Nadal/Djokovic have always played their best in semi/final.
they haven't had a one-off match with a dip ?

In any case, my point. was had ifs and conditions

"because you are clueless not realising a nadal draw with soderling-> djokovic -> federer would've been very tough for him.
secondly, federer was playing well in USO 2010 before the SF. played well from 1R-QF. SF was a one-off.
also even with 2 previous tough matches for Nadal .......If the federer from the SF shows up, he loses to Nadal, he loses. But if federer from 1R to QF shows up, it'd be close (slight edge for Nadal at best) "

there are other scenarios as well.
Federer gets an easy draw, so a one-off average/below par perf. in either QF or SF doesn't matter.
Nadal gets Soderling, Djokovic.
so can't keep form/intensity in a hypothetical final.
or gets beat by Soderling/Djokovic...

Nadal had an extremely tough match in AO 09 and still beat Federer in the final
And that Federer was much better than in USO 2010
There's no way federer is going to come close to beating Nadal in USO 2010

 

[abmk]

There's no way he would raise his level against Nadal if he couldn't do it against Djokovic

there's no way Federer could play flawless/great vs Nadal if he couldn't do it vs ferrer, tsonga, fish. Oh wait, that happened in World Tour final 2011.
there's no way Federer could raise his level vs Nadal if he didn't do so vs Ferrer, Moya. Oh wait, that happened in Hamburg 07.

there's no way Federer could raise his level vs Nadal if he couldn't do so vs Almagro, Nalbandian. Oh wait, that happened in Rome 06.

Edit : I suggest you look up the definition of the word one-off.

 

[abmk]

Nadal had an extremely tough match in AO 09 and still beat Federer in the final
And that Federer was much better than in USO 2010
There's no way federer is going to come close to beating Nadal in USO 2010

yes, one very tough match vs Verdasco. Commendable from Nadal indeed.

Here, Nadal could have 2 tough matches though - Soderling and Djokovic, before getting to Federer.
and Federer's form was pretty good at USO 2010 1R to QF.
Again, you'd probably be clueless about that as you would've only watched the SF or heard only about that.

 

[Objective observer]

there's no way Federer could play flawless/great vs Nadal if he couldn't do it vs ferrer, tsonga, fish. Oh wait, that happened in World Tour final 2011.
there's no way Federer could raise his level vs Nadal if he didn't do so vs Ferrer, Moya. Oh wait, that happened in Hamburg 07.

there's no way Federer could raise his level vs Nadal if he couldn't do so vs Almagro, Nalbandian. Oh wait, that happened in Rome 06.

11 was indoors
6,7 was his peak
Again he couldn't beat Nadal in AO 09 when his form was much better and Nadal had an extremely tough match
No way he would do it in USO 2010

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I'd pay good money to see that 2005 vs 2010 match

Why, when you can get the result from it with 100% certainty from the resident objective fortune-tellers?

 

[Objective observer]

yes, one very tough match vs Verdasco. Commendable from Nadal indeed.

Here, Nadal could have 2 tough matches though - Soderling and Djokovic, before getting to Federer.

Wouldn't be as tough as the verdasco match
It would be a tight 4 setter at best similar to the USO 2010 final

 

[Objective observer]

yes, one very tough match vs Verdasco. Commendable from Nadal indeed.

Here, Nadal could have 2 tough matches though - Soderling and Djokovic, before getting to Federer.
and Federer's form was pretty good at USO 2010 1R to QF.
Again, you'd probably be clueless about that as you would've only watched the SF or heard only about that.

If Federer could straight set Soderling then Nadal could too as his form was just as good as Federer's if not much better

 

[abmk]

If Federer could straight set Soderling then Nadal could too as his form was just as good as Federer's if not much better

not in the QF. Nadal actually started off struggling in the wind vs Verdasco.
Then Verdasco's form went down and Nadal recovered his form.
Federer played excellent in the QF vs Soderling.

Also Federer matches up much better vs Soderling than Nadal does.

 

[abmk]

Wouldn't be as tough as the verdasco match
It would be a tight 4 setter at best similar to the USO 2010 final

not necessarily. it could go 5
or if Nadal is shaky in one of them for enough time, could lose.

An easy draw in USO 10 vs the hypothetical much tougher draw also changes the mindset quite a bit.

 

[Objective observer]

not necessarily. it could go 5
or if Nadal is shaky in one of them for enough time, could lose.

An easy draw in USO 10 vs the hypothetical much tougher draw also changes the mindset quite a bit.

There's no way Nadal would lose with the way he was playing and serving

Also like I said Federer couldn't beat inexperienced Nadal in his first hard court slam final in AO 09 when he was in significantly better form so he has no chance in USO 2010

 

[abmk]

There's no way Nadal would lose with the way he was playing and serving

Also like I said Federer couldn't beat inexperienced Nadal in his first hard court slam final in AO 09 when he was in significantly better form so he has no chance in USO 2010

oh yes, he could.
If Djokovic played better than he did in the final.

or if Soderling was hitting huge, serving huge and disturbing his rhythm.

I'm not saying he would lose, I'm saying he could.

If you compare fed's AO 09 form to USO 10 1R to QF form, its nowhere near the difference you are making it out to be.
The SF match vs Djokovic was an outlier, a one-off.
inexperienced Nadal ? LOL... Nadal played his best tennis in that AO 09 final.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Literally everything is a hypothetical here
Saying federer is better in 2006 than 2015 is also a hypothetical BTW

It's not. He had a far, far better record that year. Even gave your boy some bakery at Wimbledon.

 

[abmk]

11 was indoors
6,7 was his peak
Again he couldn't beat Nadal in AO 09 when his form was much better and Nadal had an extremely tough match
No way he would do it in USO 2010

moar excuses.
He raised his level vs Nadal in Indian Wells 2012 vs Nadal from his earlier round matches (the Raonic and Bellucci matches. He raised his level in the next 3 matches from the earlier rounds - delpo, Nadal and then isner)
nearly lost to Haas in Cincy 13, an injury affected year, playing a below par match. raised his level to play a decent enough match in next round vs Nadal.
raised his level vs Nadal in AO 17 final from the Stan semi.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

..

 

[Objective observer]

moar excuses.
He raised his level vs Nadal in Indian Wells 2012 vs Nadal from his earlier round matches (the Raonic and Bellucci matches. He raised his level in the next 3 matches from the earlier rounds - delpo, Nadal and then isner)
nearly lost to Haas in Cincy 13, an injury affected year, playing a below par match. raised his level to play a decent enough match in next round vs Nadal.
raised his level vs Nadal in AO 17 final from the Stan semi.

Not in the Slams
He played very well in RG 11 against Djokovic but lost comfortably in the final
AO 12 he played very well before the semis but again lost
AO 14 he played well against murray Tsonga but lost badly against Nadal
2017 was clearly outlier as he also beat Nadal the whole year

 

[Julian Houston]

Fred revolutionized tennis hence he deserve to have 5 yrs in a row dominance. No one played like Fred until years later Djoker and Nadal catch up with even more mean pushing game.

Pioneers in industry gets the payout first.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

Things I learned in this thread:

It’s all been a lie.

Novak and Rafa would kerfuffle Federer had they played in his prime. One from the left the other his right.

Add Murray, Sampras and Agassi the most he gets are a couple of tournaments in Dubai and even this is being generous.

Send Donskoy in to finish the job and Fraud reasonably and objectively has 0 titles.

 

[Objective observer]

Things I learned in this thread:

It’s all been a lie.

Novak and Rafa would kerfuffle Federer had they played in his prime. One from the left the other his right.

Add Murray, Sampras and Agassi the most he gets are a couple of tournaments in Dubai and even this is being generous.

Send Donskoy in to finish the job and Fraud reasonably and objectively has 0 titles.

Massive massive exaggeration
Fedr still has Basel!

 

[Deleted member 742196]

Massive massive exaggeration
Fedr still has Basel!

No no, we’re on the right track here. This thing has wheels. If Fed hadn’t been a ball boy it’s doubtful he would get up to much in Basel.

What’s Basel anyway?

It probably doesn’t exist in the above scenario.

 

[Jonas78]

Just saying it is a hypothetical
If you can be so sure of federer 2006 being better than 2015 even though they never played then I can also be sure Nadal is better than Federer

Sure you can, but it isnt likely. Djoko/Fed won 11 & 9 HC slams, Nads has 4. Although that necessarily doesnt say something about peak level it most likely does (Federer has most W, Nads most FO, Djok probably ends up with most AO), unless you by some reason think Nadal only peaked in 2010 and 2013. You really cant explain it by strong opposition either, because Djok has only stopped him twice In HC-slams, and Federer not until 2017.

 

[Towny]

Fraud is clearly trash. The luckiest player in the whole open era who inflated his title count against total mugs and was EXPOSED by toddler Nadal on hardcourts. If peak Nadal played in the mid 2000s, he would have triple bageled Fed at all the hardcourt slams without breaking a sweat

 

[Subway Tennis]

Federer in Wimbledon 2008 was also basically the same as 2007

Talk Tennis lore dictates that Federer was afflicted with a serious viral infection and a back injury throughout the 2008 final, otherwise he would have won. He really did do well hiding the injury(ies) and playing one of the best matches of his career.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

I've just called Rafa and asked Toni about it. He said, Fed would have won UO2010.

 

[junior74]

Massive massive exaggeration
Fedr still has Basel!

Fraud should have remained a ball boy!

 

[Deleted member 757377]

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Fraud is clearly trash. The luckiest player in the whole open era who inflated his title count against total mugs and was EXPOSED by toddler Nadal on hardcourts. If peak Nadal played in the mid 2000s, he would have triple bageled Fed at all the hardcourt slams without breaking a sweat

NUFF SAID

 

[abmk]

Not in the Slams
He played very well in RG 11 against Djokovic but lost comfortably in the final
AO 12 he played very well before the semis but again lost
AO 14 he played well against murray Tsonga but lost badly against Nadal
2017 was clearly outlier as he also beat Nadal the whole year

RG 11 , was a clear dip from the semi, no doubt.
AO 12, was a disgrace of a HC surface being that slow.
AO 14 , was ~32.5 years, inconsistency is nothing surprising at that age. having had to dispose off 2 tricky opponents in 4R and QF - hence having to play at a high enough level.

and the first 3 were on clearly slower surfaces/slams compared to USO 2010.

My point was Federer keeping his 1R-QF level anyways. (an if)

Anyways your so called "point"/"thread" was utterly obliterated step by step. That's what happens when you pursue your BS biased agenda and come across someone who knows his stuff/people who know their stuff.