Nadal is currently best at ROS

[User123]

Strange. Actually return of serve looks like his main weakness these days. If you ask me what part of his game should he improve the most (in my point of view) I would say it is ROS.

 

[clayqueen]

Yeah but Federer is 3-0 h2h then him this years so that means nothing.

Yes it means nothing because Fed avoided a drubbing from Nadal in the clay season.

 

[clayqueen]

I can't do anything but agree with the stats. Still, Nadal may have a great ROS, but I still wouldn't call him a great returner, he's not in the same league as Agassi, Djokovic, Murray. Nadal's strategy on the return is to neutralize the serve and get it back into play so he can take the advantage in the following shot with his superior ground game. That's why he stands further back from the baseline and why he's not very aggressive on the return. It seems to work for him, so it is what it is.

He wins the highest % of points from his ROS compared to everyone else; that is ALL that matters.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Federer is not a better returner on grass than Nadal.

Career break % on grass

Federer - 25.2% in 192 matches
Nadal - 23.8% in 79 matches

 

[clayqueen]

Strange. Actually return of serve looks like his main weakness these days. If you ask me what part of his game should he improve the most (in my point of view) I would say it is ROS.

Then you'd be wrong.

 

[vanioMan]

It is a shame that he is abusing tennis the way he plays and yet he is being rewarded

I wish we can dock him points and games for tennis aesthetics

I absolutely love to see you and other people being so pressed about this. It's wonderful to see that some people have got nothing to do in their lives but to cry about and hate on others' success while they win Slams and millions of dollars. In other words, keep on entertaining us

 

[clayqueen]

It is a shame that he is abusing tennis the way he plays and yet he is being rewarded

I wish we can dock him points and games for tennis aesthetics

That would be Federer who dances ballet instead of playing tennis.

 

[mavsman149]

He wins the highest % of points from his ROS compared to everyone else; that is ALL that matters.

Not exactly, Nadal has the best winning percentage on 1st serve only. Schwartzman, Djokovic and Murray all have better percentages on 2nd serve return and Nadal is only in 3rd place for % of return games won. Schwartzman has won 35.6%, Murray has 34.3% and then Nadal 33.8%, I'd say that is the more important stat.

Even still none of those stats are just the return in isolation, I don't think many people think Federer has a better serve than Raonic who has held less often percentage wise than Fed. Federer has a better service game than Raonic, but not a better serve.

 

[tennisaddict]

I absolutely love to see you and other people being so pressed about this. It's wonderful to see that some people have got nothing to do in their lives but to cry about and hate on others' success while they win Slams and millions of dollars. In other words, keep on entertaining us

Well , if standing 20 ft behind the baseline, out of the camera sight , hitting loopy balls is what is tennis for you - more power to you !!

 

[mavsman149]

Nadal also has the best 2nd serve win % this year at 61.3%, I don't think I've ever read someone say that Nadal has the best second serve in tennis.

 

[clayqueen]

Returning first serves is one of the toughest elements of our sport, with only a handful of players able to nudge their win rate higher than 30 per cent in this key strategic area. Depending on court surface and speed, average first-serve return win percentages for the Top 100 are typically between 26-30 per cent, with the average right at 28 per cent.

An Infosys ATP Beyond The Numbers analysis of Rafael Nadal’s resurgence to No. 1 in the Emirates ATP Rankings this season shows that the Spaniard's performance in this key battleground has certainly aided his comeback.

Nadal is also No. 1 on tour in 2017 winning return points against first serves, at 35.2 per cent (971/2761). That metric bumps up to an astounding 43.4 per cent (454/1045) when you focus on just his clay-court matches.

 

[clayqueen]

Well , if standing 20 ft behind the baseline, out of the camera sight , hitting loopy balls is what is tennis for you - more power to you !!

Ballet does it for you.

 

[abmk]

Career break % on grass

Federer - 25.2% in 192 matches
Nadal - 23.8% in 79 matches

facts inconvenient, no ?

the difference would be more if you took their best 4/5 years.

 

[Druss]

I wonder how much this stat means when Diego Schwarzman is only 0.7% behind in 3rd place!

 

[abmk]

At thread , lets look at his returning vs big/pretty good serving in the year :

raonic at brisbane - lost - didn't return that well , negative
raonic at AO - won - returned well, good win , positive
federer at AO -- lost - returned ok
querrey at acapulco - lost -- didn't return that well, negative
muller at wimb - lost - didn't return well , negative
kyrgios at cincy - lost - didn't return well , negative
anderson at USO - won - returned well , positive

you could throw in Anderson at Barcelona -- as a +ve.

still see more -ves than +ves.

so no.

would take his 1st serve return on clay of course, but on grass - federer, on HC - federer.

federer had only one -ve returning performance on grass/HC tbh - the delpo one at the USO.

 

[vanioMan]

Well , if standing 20 ft behind the baseline, out of the camera sight , hitting loopy balls is what is tennis for you - more power to you !!

Who are you to say what tennis is and what tennis isn't?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Who are you to say what tennis is and what tennis isn't?

Lol at Nadal's balls being loopy. He wouldn't get a racquet on one of them.

 

[clayqueen]

At thread , lets look at his returning vs big/pretty good serving in the year :

raonic at brisbane - lost - didn't return that well , negative
raonic at AO - won - returned well, good win , positive
federer at AO -- lost - returned ok
querrey at acapulco - lost -- didn't return that well, negative
muller at wimb - lost - didn't return well , negative
kyrgios at cincy - lost - didn't return well , negative
anderson at USO - won - returned well , positive

you could throw in Anderson at Barcelona -- as a +ve.

still see more +ves than -ves.

so no.

would take his 1st serve return on clay of course, but on grass - federer, on HC - federer.

federer had only one -ve returning performance on grass/HC tbh - the delpo one at the USO.

Opinions are not facts. For facts, refer to:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-infosys-return-october-2017

 

[abmk]

Opinions are not facts. For facts, refer to:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-infosys-return-october-2017

your thread title says : "Nadal is currently best at ROS" ...that's an opinion.

so no, you fail.

If you say he's been the most successful at winning 1st serve return points % wise this year overall, that is a fact yes.
whether he has the best RoS, no, that's not a fact.

again, you fail as usual.

 

[clayqueen]

when you say "best" RoS, it becomes an opinion.

so no, you fail.

If you say he's been the most successful at winning 1st serve return points % wise this year overall, that is a fact yes.
whether he has the best RoS, no, that's not a fact.

again, you fail as usual.

Currently, Rafa is the best at ROS.

 

[abmk]

Currently, Rafa is the best at ROS.

that's an opinion.

agree with that on clay.
not on grass or HC.

 

[Gary Duane]

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-infosys-return-october-2017

Nadal's Surprising Stat That Pushed Him To No. 1
OCT032017

Craig O'Shannessy

Infosys ATP Beyond The Numbers explains how the Spaniard overcomes the odds returning first serves
As a returner, everything is stacked against you.

Firstly, you are facing the hardest shot hit on a tennis court, sometimes upwards of 140 mph. Blink, and it’s gone. Secondly, you begin in a statistical black hole, not even forecast to win three out of every 10 points you play.

Returning first serves is one of the toughest elements of our sport, with only a handful of players able to nudge their win rate higher than 30 per cent in this key strategic area. Depending on court surface and speed, average first-serve return win percentages for the Top 100 are typically between 26-30 per cent, with the average right at 28 per cent.

An Infosys ATP Beyond The Numbers analysis of Rafael Nadal’s resurgence to No. 1 in the Emirates ATP Rankings this season shows that the Spaniard's performance in this key battleground has certainly aided his comeback.

Nadal is also No. 1 on tour in 2017 winning return points against first serves, at 35.2 per cent (971/2761). That metric bumps up to an astounding 43.4 per cent (454/1045) when you focus on just his clay-court matches.

This is absolutely misleading because it is a stat on all surfaces.

We all know that Nadal's ROS on clay is amazing.

But his % on HCs is 32% this year. Fed was around 35% for 2004-2006 on HCs.

Murray was an insane 37% in 2011, with Djokovic at 36%.

32% is very good but not spectacular on HCs.

 

[Gary Duane]

Currently, Rafa is the best at ROS.

No, not on HCs. He is third, and this year is weak.

 

[Gary Duane]

that's an opinion.

agree with that on clay.
not on grass or HC.

It's a wrong opinion off clay. Rafa's stats for any year are always skewed high because of clay.

Remember who you are talking to.

 

[abmk]

It's a wrong opinion off clay. Rafa's stats for any year are always skewed high because of clay.

Remember who you are talking to.

yeah, I know. why else do you think I am replying that way ?

 

[clayqueen]

that's an opinion.

agree with that on clay.
not on grass or HC.

Clay is tennis as are grass and h/c. Even taking all surfaces into account, Rafa is ahead of the pack.

 

[clayqueen]

It's a wrong opinion off clay. Rafa's stats for any year are always skewed high because of clay.

Remember who you are talking to.

Have you read the ATP article? This is what it says:

1. http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-infosys-return-october-2017
   
   Nadal is also No. 1 on tour in 2017 winning return points against first serves, at 35.2 per cent (971/2761). That metric bumps up to an astounding 43.4 per cent (454/1045) when you focus on just his clay-court matches.

 

[Gary Duane]

Have you read the ATP article? This is what it says:

1. http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/nadal-infosys-return-october-2017
   
   Nadal is also No. 1 on tour in 2017 winning return points against first serves, at 35.2 per cent (971/2761). That metric bumps up to an astounding 43.4 per cent (454/1045) when you focus on just his clay-court matches.

Learn to read.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/all/all/

35% on all surfaces

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/hard/all/

32% on HCs

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/clay/all/

43% on clay.

His clay stats skew his all surface record up every year.

Nadal is currently king of the ROS on clay, has been for years, and may be the best ever.

But he is not the best on HCs when other great players are healthy.

 

[clayqueen]

Learn to read.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/all/all/

35% on all surfaces

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/hard/all/

32% on HCs

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/1st-serve-return-points-won/2017/clay/all/

43% on clay.

His clay stats skew his all surface record up every year.

Nadal is currently king of the ROS on clay, has been for years, and may be the best ever.

But he is not the best on HCs when other great players are healthy.

You're in denial. It doesn't matter about surfaces, after all the other players could overtake him by being that much better at ROS on their preferred surfaces, but they haven't.

 

[Gary Duane]

You're in denial. It doesn't matter about surfaces, after all the other players could overtake him by being that much better at ROS on their preferred surfaces, but they haven't.

Surface doesn't matter?

Time for me to exit this discussion...

 

[Gary Duane]

You're in denial. It doesn't matter about surfaces, after all the other players could overtake him by being that much better at ROS on their preferred surfaces, but they haven't.

It's pointless talking to you, so I'll answer this for other people who understand how to read.

RoS stats are always highest on clay, lowest on grass. Great clay players have all around stats that are inflated, because of clay.

Service stats are always lowest on clay, highest on grass. Great clay players have all around stats that are DEFLATED, because of clay.

What is impressive this year for Nadal, all surfaces, his is serve stats:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/service-games-won/2017/all/all/

Nadal at 89% is spectacular, and his combined stats for serving and return, all surfaces, are clearly #1 level: 89/34, quick look, shows 123/2 or above 60% of games won for the year. That is usually an indicator of the #1 player in the world.

56% of total points is incredibly good, a stat that only ATGs reach.

Nadal has always been a great returner, and in his best years he has been close to the top of the list returning on HCs, though not right at the top.

The difference this year is serving. His improved serving is why he is #1 this year.

 

[Bavaria]

His return position from the first row clearly works.

As much as I admire Nadal his ROS is a dreadful example to kids. He gets away with it as players are so one dimensional. Standing that far back on grass or hard against Sampras or Becker or Edberg would have seen him get schooled.

What annoys me is when he is at his best he actually returns serve on the baseline so he can adopt a proper return position.

 

[clayqueen]

I'm sure Rafa's h/c ROS % has gone up this week.

 

[DRII]

Lol no I'm American but not a native American. Grew up with my Pawnee aunt and my uncle who was married to her tho. Different culture than the high strung euro Americans.
Also spent some time on a couple reservations. Hiking and working for them as a computer programmer.

always thought you were Eastern European.

 

[abmk]

I'm sure Rafa's h/c ROS % has gone up this week.

then you would be wrong , as almost always - since you don't know how the stats are affected by playing opponents playing well(Pouille) or having a great serve (Isner)

Nadal's stats this year (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 35.47%
2nd serve return % points won = 55.75%
return games won% = 33.99%

Nadal's stats in 3 matches at Beijing :

1st serve return% points won = 47/164 (28.66%)
2nd serve return% points won = 36/73 (49.31%)
Return games won% = 5/37 (13.51%)

Nadal's stats this year just on HC (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 31.94%
2nd serve return % points won = 54.7%
Return games won% = 28.79%

 

[abmk]

Clay is tennis as are grass and h/c. Even taking all surfaces into account, Rafa is ahead of the pack.

in terms of 1st serve return% points won, yes. But not necessarily in terms of RoS.

1st serve return% points has RoS+ground game in the return game, not just RoS.

 

[clayqueen]

then you would be wrong , as almost always - since you don't know how the stats are affected by playing opponents playing well(Pouille) or having a great serve (Isner)

Nadal's stats this year (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 35.47%
2nd serve return % points won = 55.75%
return games won% = 33.99%

Nadal's stats in 3 matches at Beijing :

1st serve return% points won = 47/164 (28.66%)
2nd serve return% points won = 36/73 (49.31%)
Return games won% = 5/37 (13.51%)

Nadal's stats this year just on HC (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 31.94%
2nd serve return % points won = 54.7%
Return games won% = 28.79%

OMG. You guys are so scared of Rafael Nadal.

 

[abmk]

OMG. You guys are so scared of Rafael Nadal.

LOL, you got owned and exposed as the clueless fellow you are. Try to get a clue instead of fangirling all over.

Federer isn't even playing Beijing. So wouldn't be scared.

Even if federer were playing, would only be worried if federer wasn't playing well (since when playing well, he's beat Nadal 3 times on hC this year, including twice in straights)

 

[clayqueen]

.........he's beat Nadal 3 times on hC this year, including twice in straights)

Your comfort blanket

 

[abmk]

Your comfort blanket

you were wrong. Deal with it.

if you come back with more cr*p, you'll be rubbished more.

 

[TheFifthSet]

I'm sure Rafa's h/c ROS % has gone up this week.

then you would be wrong , as almost always - since you don't know how the stats are affected by playing opponents playing well(Pouille) or having a great serve (Isner)

Nadal's stats this year (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 35.47%
2nd serve return % points won = 55.75%
return games won% = 33.99%

Nadal's stats in 3 matches at Beijing :

1st serve return% points won = 47/164 (28.66%)
2nd serve return% points won = 36/73 (49.31%)
Return games won% = 5/37 (13.51%)

Nadal's stats this year just on HC (before Beijing) :

1st serve return % points won = 31.94%
2nd serve return % points won = 54.7%
Return games won% = 28.79%

OMG. You guys are so scared of Rafael Nadal.

@clayqueen is TTW's Donald J. Trump. Tremendous tremendous fact-checking required for all of her posts.

 

[Gary Duane]

OMG. You guys are so scared of Rafael Nadal.

I'm a fan of Nadal, have been for years.

But I'm also objective. You are just a fangirl. I enjoy tennis when a lot of players are playing. If Nadal retired tomorrow, you would be gone from this place. Your whole tennis interest revolves around one player and one player only.

 

[Gary Duane]

@clayqueen is TTW's Donald J. Trump. Tremendous tremendous fact-checking required for all of her posts.

FAKE NEWS. Anything that contradicts her view of reality is fake news.

 

[Gary Duane]

LOL, you got owned and exposed as the clueless fellow you are. Try to get a clue instead of fangirling all over.

Federer isn't even playing Beijing. So wouldn't be scared.

Even if federer were playing, would only be worried if federer wasn't playing well (since when playing well, he's beat Nadal 3 times on hC this year, including twice in straights)

To be clear: I still view Nadal as one of two of Fed's most dangerous rivals, and I would never assume that Fed will win over either when they are playing well - although we don't know yet if we will see peak form Djokovic again.

I don't assume that Fed will win any match against Nadal, just as I don't assume Nadal will win any match against Fed - unless it is on clay.

I'd like to see either Nadal or Fed end the year at #1 for one last time. It would be a bit painful to see Nadal lose the lead now, just as it was painful to see Fed lose his edge at Wimbledon.

My argument here is not against Nadal - it is against @clayqueen, who is just being ridiculous.

 

[swordtennis]

always thought you were Eastern European.

Family is from Ukraine snd southern Italy.

 

[abmk]

To be clear: I still view Nadal as one of two of Fed's most dangerous rivals, and I would never assume that Fed will win over either when they are playing well - although we don't know yet if we will see peak form Djokovic again.

I don't assume that Fed will win any match against Nadal, just as I don't assume Nadal will win any match against Fed - unless it is on clay.

I'd like to see either Nadal or Fed end the year at #1 for one last time. It would be a bit painful to see Nadal lose the lead now, just as it was painful to see Fed lose his edge at Wimbledon.

My argument here is not against Nadal - it is against @clayqueen, who is just being ridiculous.

true, but my point is I wouldn't be scared of Nadal right now if federer is playing well. nervous ? yes. tense ? probably.
scared ? no.

I'm not talking about assuming a win for federer vs Nadal if he's playing well.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

does ROS stand for Rear Output System ?

 

[Gary Duane]

true, but my point is I wouldn't be scared of Nadal right now if federer is playing well. nervous ? yes. tense ? probably.
scared ? no.

I'm not talking about assuming a win for federer vs Nadal if he's playing well.

I don't get "scared" when any player is playing and might lose. But I do get REALLY nervous when I'm stupid enough to get emotionally invested in a tennis match.

The AO final left me with an upset stomach and insomnia. I swore I was not going to watch the match, live, at some stupid time in the morning. I was only going to watch a little, go to sleep, then wake up and find out what happened.

Logical...

But then I watched the first set and stayed up for the whole thing.

Question: do you think either Nadal or Fed has a reasonable chance to stay at or close to #1 in 2018?

I think this might be the last year we see either of them in this dominant a position...

 

[Gary Duane]

does ROS stand for Rear Output System ?

No. Obviously you don't have a clue.

Everyone knows it means:

Reach Over and Scratch.

Or

Rectal Orifice Search

Now watch the ************* order a hit on me for having a bit of fun!

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Rectal Orifice Search

a never-ending quest, apparently...