Nadal is now a bigger GOAT candidate than Federer

H

harinder

Rookie
He has now won 6 slams in 18 attempts. Thats the second fastest to reach 6 after Borg. Sampras took 25 attempts to reach the same number. Federer did it in 26. Unlike Federer, he now has slams on all three surfaces. In addition, he doesnt have a losing h2h against any of his main rivals (Im unsure if he does have a losing h2h record). At this rate, Nadal will certainly break the slam record and if not win the Grand Slam he will most likely have a career slam. The US Open is obviously the next question mark but remember no longer than a month ago people were doubting whether he could win a hardcourt slam. At his rate of improvement, he has a big shot of winning the US. The other question concerns longevity. Can Nadal sustain this level of play? We all know that Nadal is a very physical player and it remains to be seen how long he can maintain this. Logically, if you peak earlier, you decline earlier too. But who knows? He may break the slam records in 2-3 years anyway.


Federer has been consistenly beaten by Nadal and that certainly hurts his credentials to be GOAT. To be in contention, he now needs a few more slam wins (2 at least to break the record) and prefably against Nadal (to make the h2h more competitive) or at the French (to attain career slam). However to me, the latter two seem unlikely.

Nadal is in a much better position now to break the records but lets see how he holds up. Will he break down physically? Or will the weight of expectation get to him? So far, he has proven his critics wrong
 
Too bad you didn't wait and see if he holds up before you posted =)

We see this countless times in all sports. Someone has a monster start to their career and problems or crossroads happen.

And if Nadal gets through it and is the GOAT then thats great and it was meant to be. But we will have to wait to see how he is doing on his 25th or 28th birthday.
 
Didnt make sense. You make an statement in the title and then question his physical longevity?
you are talking from both sides of your mouth.
 
OddJack said:
Didnt make sense. You make an statement in the title and then question his physical longevity?
you are talking from both sides of your mouth.
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It doesn't make sense to be totally sure of something that no one is sure of either. Be glad he questions his own conclusions.
 
OddJack said:
ok, I am glad.
Except that questions are usually asked before reaching a conclusion.
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If the subject matter is of any importance. Who cares if he is not sure about Nadal's candidacy for GOAT?:) The whole point is to discuss things.
 
I agree with Jack on this one..... You cant really make a statement and sound so sure of it without analyzing all the variables..... So I guess the OP is trying to say that he can be the GOAT if his body can handle the physical aspects of his game? Or is he saying regardless, Nadal will be the Goat? Either way, not a new thread here really..... Even so, I hope Nadal has a long career and hope that his game becomes less strenuous on his body; I enjoy watching him play


S.S.
 
OddJack said:
Didnt make sense. You make an statement in the title and then question his physical longevity?
you are talking from both sides of your mouth.
Click to expand...

read the post carefully.

my statement was, as it stands he is now in a better position than Federer to become goat. I then continue by saying, whether he actually does break the records and become goat will depend on his physical prowess over his career.

I know this isnt a fresh topic but regardless its about having a discussion and sharing opinions.
 
I'd say Yes - he has the best chance of a calendar slam, and a good chance of reaching Petes record in 2-3 years.

However, should GOAT not include the time period a person was at the top ?
 
TopShelf said:
Too bad you didn't wait and see if he holds up before you posted =)

We see this countless times in all sports. Someone has a monster start to their career and problems or crossroads happen.

And if Nadal gets through it and is the GOAT then thats great and it was meant to be. But we will have to wait to see how he is doing on his 25th or 28th birthday.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it will happen, I'm always very cautious, but Nadal has the opportunity and the potential to break a lot of records before the age of 25. If he somehow managed to pull a calendar slam on all surfaces, something that nobody has ever done (Laver did it on 2 surfaces only), he would be the GOAT at the age of 23! IMO a calendar slam combined with his other achievements (and probably reaching 10 slams at least in his career) would make the discussion around 13 or 14 slams totally irrelevant, it would be a much more spectacular achievement than any number of slams over lots of years. It may not be likely to happen but I don't see it as completely out of his reach either, so who knows?
 
Nobody is GOAT. Everyone has their bad matchup, and fro Federer it's Nadal. Someday, a player will rise and will do to Nadal what Nadal did to Federer, and then all of you will say Nadal can't be GOAT because he losses to this guy all the time.
Murray actually be that guy, as he's defeated Nadal in their 2 previous meetings. But can he do it on clar and grass? Time will tell.
 
As many have said in the myriad threads already putting selling this idea, it's a little premature.

5
 
Why are people in this forum so concerned with identifying the greatest player of all time? There have been and will be so many great players, who have dominated or will dominate the sport over certain periods. The concept of "greatest of all time" doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.
 
I agree with P Agony--no one can be a clear GOAT with all the variables, eras, and competition levels. However, that being said, Rafa sure has a chance to one day be included within the discussion if he keeps playing like this for another three years and his competition is tough that surrounds him.

2009 is the first year in many years that I foresee someone actually having a chance at winning a calendar slam.
 
Absurd. In '09 Rafa has mucho points to defend up to May and Roland Garros; Roger has far fewer. RFed may be #1 by May, assuming he is not done.
Both Roger AND Rafa would have topped Laver, Muscles Rosewall, Borg, Mac, Budge... IMHO Rafa's relative hard court weakness is more than Feds lack of the clay slam crown. Even Rafa knows Fed is to date the all time GOAT. And do you reallyfavor Nadal overr Fed at '09 Wimby?
 
Beating Federer in 5 of his 6 GS titles in all 3 surfaces, Nadal is definitely a BIGGER GOAT CANDIDATE than Federer.

But to call Nadal the GOAT, we still have to wait till he tops list of the most numbers of GS titles.
 
6 slams compared to 13 is not making case for GOAT candidate over Roger. He may in the future though. It all depends on how long Nadal can dominate the field and how many slams he can end up with. If he gets close to Roger in the slam count than he is domination h2h over Roger, should put him ahead in the GOAT category IMO
 
veroniquem said:
I'm not saying it will happen, I'm always very cautious, but Nadal has the opportunity and the potential to break a lot of records before the age of 25. If he somehow managed to pull a calendar slam on all surfaces, something that nobody has ever done (Laver did it on 2 surfaces only), he would be the GOAT at the age of 23! IMO a calendar slam combined with his other achievements (and probably reaching 10 slams at least in his career) would make the discussion around 13 or 14 slams totally irrelevant, it would be a much more spectacular achievement than any number of slams over lots of years. It may not be likely to happen but I don't see it as completely out of his reach either, so who knows?
Click to expand...

If Nadal manages to end his career with a few slams short of Federer, then I would put him above Federer (based on their H2H).
 
caulcano said:
If Nadal manages to end his career with a few slams short of Federer, then I would put him above Federer (based on their H2H).
Click to expand...

Yep. Nadal needs to sustain this level for a couple more years, then we'll see. He hasn't reached the Agassi/Lendl tier yet.
 
P_Agony said:
Nobody is GOAT. Everyone has their bad matchup, and fro Federer it's Nadal. Someday, a player will rise and will do to Nadal what Nadal did to Federer, and then all of you will say Nadal can't be GOAT because he losses to this guy all the time.
Murray actually be that guy, as he's defeated Nadal in their 2 previous meetings. But can he do it on clar and grass? Time will tell.
Click to expand...


actually just once. Abu dhabi was an exo.
 
now? at this moment? Federer is among the top 3 best of all time, Rafa is not. plain and simple.
 
jaap deboeck said:
Absurd. In '09 Rafa has mucho points to defend up to May and Roland Garros; Roger has far fewer. RFed may be #1 by May, assuming he is not done.
Both Roger AND Rafa would have topped Laver, Muscles Rosewall, Borg, Mac, Budge... IMHO Rafa's relative hard court weakness is more than Feds lack of the clay slam crown. Even Rafa knows Fed is to date the all time GOAT. And do you reallyfavor Nadal overr Fed at '09 Wimby?
Click to expand...
Absolutely, don't you? If the final was Federer-Nadal at Wimbledon again and I had to put my money on one of the 2, I sure as hell wouldn't put it on Fed at this point...
 
P_Agony said:
Nobody is GOAT. Everyone has their bad matchup, and fro Federer it's Nadal. Someday, a player will rise and will do to Nadal what Nadal did to Federer, and then all of you will say Nadal can't be GOAT because he losses to this guy all the time.
Murray actually be that guy, as he's defeated Nadal in their 2 previous meetings. But can he do it on clar and grass? Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Nadal is 5-1 against Murray (and they have met on all surfaces)
 
harinder said:
He has now won 6 slams in 18 attempts. Thats the second fastest to reach 6 after Borg. Sampras took 25 attempts to reach the same number. Federer did it in 26. Unlike Federer, he now has slams on all three surfaces. In addition, he doesnt have a losing h2h against any of his main rivals (Im unsure if he does have a losing h2h record). At this rate, Nadal will certainly break the slam record and if not win the Grand Slam he will most likely have a career slam. The US Open is obviously the next question mark but remember no longer than a month ago people were doubting whether he could win a hardcourt slam. At his rate of improvement, he has a big shot of winning the US. The other question concerns longevity. Can Nadal sustain this level of play? We all know that Nadal is a very physical player and it remains to be seen how long he can maintain this. Logically, if you peak earlier, you decline earlier too. But who knows? He may break the slam records in 2-3 years anyway.


Federer has been consistenly beaten by Nadal and that certainly hurts his credentials to be GOAT. To be in contention, he now needs a few more slam wins (2 at least to break the record) and prefably against Nadal (to make the h2h more competitive) or at the French (to attain career slam). However to me, the latter two seem unlikely.

Nadal is in a much better position now to break the records but lets see how he holds up. Will he break down physically? Or will the weight of expectation get to him? So far, he has proven his critics wrong
Click to expand...

I'm as much of a Nadal fan as I am a Federer fan, but lets not jump the gun here. For starters Nadal has only 6 slam titles, as you've stated above (and chances are it will be 7 in France, but that's still behind the leaders.

There are other stats to consider. How many consecutive weeks has a player held the number 1 position, how many years did they end the year at number 1, etc, etc.

I will gladly pass the GOAT status to Nadal, once and if his stats keep going in all the areas. Is he in a better position to do it then Federer? Possibly, as Federer has had trouble at the French Open, and now Nadal has won on two more surfaces.

Jukka
 
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In statistics, there is a concept of not statistically meaningful difference. One player may be ahead of another but not by more than chance. Let's apply this statistical maxim to this debate.
 
*sigh* There are a million festering hornets' nests on this board already which people can stir up at will. Why must seemingly every newbie come in here and build another?

DON'T START WITH THE STUPID GOAT ARGUMENT, until a) Federer wins RG or his 14th Slam or b) Nadal is in the final for the USO after winning Wimby and RG this year.
 
goat%20crying.gif
 
federerdomination said:
yeah but most of those matches were against the "old" murray

The new one is a lot better now
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1 of those matches was in Canada in July 2008 (not that ancient, really). You're reading too much into that 1 match at the USO, Nadal lacked freshness after playing a lot in spring/summer and winning the Olympics. The other match you're referring to was an exhibition. An exhib means nothing, even Roddick beats Fed in exhibitions!
 
federerdomination said:
yeah but most of those matches were against the "old" murray
Click to expand...

So because it wasn't "the new Murray" we're gonna discount the h2h altogether now? Those 5 wins in 6 meetings count for nothing because of "new Murray" who couldn't get past the 4th Round of the Australian Open in which he was the "favorite"? Gimme a f-en break. Besides, Nadal destroyed Murray on his home court in Wimbledon in straight sets. So when is this improved Murray gonna show up?

federerdomination said:
The new one is a lot better now
Click to expand...

So much better that he lost in the 4th round of Aussie Open in which he was favored over Fed, Nadal and Joker. Lol!
 
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OddJack said:
And he had the same h2h against verdasco also, and now see where Verdasco is. Murray is about as the same as Verdasco was 7 months ago.
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I'm sorry, has Verdasco beaten Nadal yet? Last I checked he still lost. Even after playing the tournament of his life. And Murray lost in the 4th Round of the Aussie Open. A slight improvement over his 1st Round loss a year ago at the AO. So much for the improvement.
 
I think maybe Federer should grow a goatee beard.
That way the commentators may just start calling him "the goat", and eventually it will catch on.
Then there will be no arguments.
 
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