DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You gotta be kidding me. Toni is the reason why Nadal is where he is. If Toni hadn't switched Nadal to left hand he would barely be top 10.
Nadal is talented in discipline n hard work but Federer is a tennis player from GOD..
- Thread starter GasquetGOAT
- Start date
You gotta be kidding me. Toni is the reason why Nadal is where he is. If Toni hadn't switched Nadal to left hand he would barely be top 10.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Read carefully. I said that I see Tio Toni as the reason, why Nadal did not evolve in to more versatile player earlier in his career (earlier as compared to the time, he actually imposed himself on the Tour on surfaces, other than clay). This doesn't belittle the contribution, that Toni Nadal made, by making him play with his left hand (if that is true). I think, that Nadal would have been better off with a change of his coach somewhere around 2007-2008.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Nonsense. It's just one post that keeps cloning itself.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I'm thinking that if Fed didn't win anything, he'd have far fewer fans, and their hatred of Rafa wouldn't be so strong since Rafa wouldn't be the only person Fed would be losing to. Many Fed fans only like him because he has the most GS, so they would instead be in Rafa's camp. It's the same shallow people who'd be going around spewing crap about talent and whatnot without even stopping to think what they're even referring to with the term "talent".
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zagor
Bionic Poster
Anyone who thinks a player can win several slams (let alone 10 by the age of 25) without being extremely talented IMO doesn't really understand the game.
Nadal is one of the most talented players on tour, all the hard work and mental toughness in the world wouldn't result in him having anywhere near the success he had if he wasn't so gifted.
Honestly I think his talent is underrated even by many of his fans on TW, so many say that they're big fans of Nadal because he achieved so much through iron will/determination/warrior spirit/etc. despite not being talented as Fed or Sampras or whatever when reality is Nadal would have had zero chance of achieving so much without being extremely talented to begin with.
Nadal is one of the most talented players on tour, all the hard work and mental toughness in the world wouldn't result in him having anywhere near the success he had if he wasn't so gifted.
Honestly I think his talent is underrated even by many of his fans on TW, so many say that they're big fans of Nadal because he achieved so much through iron will/determination/warrior spirit/etc. despite not being talented as Fed or Sampras or whatever when reality is Nadal would have had zero chance of achieving so much without being extremely talented to begin with.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Actually I see a lot more hate of Djoker by Nadal fans than Fed fan hatred of Nadal.
zagor
Bionic Poster
And many Fed fans like him because of his style of tennis, heck just in this forum most people who are fans of Fed are also fans of Nalbandian, Tsonga, Safin, Gasquet etc. they're all flashy shotmakers, it's just that Fed is exception in that regard that he's so consistent and has won so much with that style of play.
Furthemore not to mention the fact that Nadal himself won 10 slams by the age of 25 (and was actually ahead of Fed in slams won by age until recently) and has began winning slams since he basically arrived on tour (won FO at the age of 19) so one could very well say he has his fair share of frontrunner fans as well.
BTW. Nadal could win 25 slams and I still wouldn't have been a fan because Ihis style of play is not my cup of tea (I don't dislike his game but I don't particulary like it either), I think very highly of him as a tennis player but doesn't mean I have to like his game.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Disagree, I still think Fed fans bash Nadal more than Nadal fans do the same to Novak or Fed but they're steadily catching up. What I dislike is Nadal fans acting like victims so often when they sure as heck can dish it out as well (as Novak bashing in 2011-2012 and Fed bashing in 2008-2009 on this forum shows/ed)
sunny_cali
Semi-Pro
+1. You'd think that common sense was banned on this board
I'd also add that "talent" is fairly vague to define, and in some ways is overrated. In most cases you need a certain amount of talent, but it's also the amount of hard work that you put in. A book I read recently put a minimum figure of 10000 hours of relentlessly pursuing / working at a particular field before people became "successful" - that figure would probably double for super-successful athletes such as Fed/Rafa.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Rafa too can be very flashy, particularly in his gets, which tend to also become winners, but I see what you're getting at.
I do agree that Rafa has his fair share of frontrunner fans, but you have to remember, as far as success is concerned, Rafa's success until recently came almost entirely on clay. Considering Wimbledon is the most famous event in tennis (almost a household name), and Rafa didn't win it until 2008, I do think Fed has more casual fans than Rafa.
Also, just because you wouldn't llike Rafa even if Fed never existed, doesn't mean everybody else will go down the same way. Lots of "fans" of players only like said players because they win. Such fans though, don't tend to spend much time on these boards.
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
This is a good post, like many fed fans I rate nadal highly as a tennis player, the man delivers the results like no other. But just having difficulty bring myself to like his style of play. He is extremely talented at winning thats for sure.
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
this is not entirely true, it is not only about winning, federer has a lot of intangibles going for him to draw fans which nadal lacks. If federer never existed, doesn't meaning nadal will definitely replace federer in the heart of general tennis fans, just because he wins everything.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Maybe, if you take away your blindfold, you will see better. 'Hypocrates'
is the name of your game I see.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Same to you.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
My bad Senti. Thank you for the correction ! I forgot that it's the same babble he, (who claims to be a she) rehashes over and over.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
I commend you for being honest and just say the truth. You're one of the few Fed fans who should be followed and who are not blinded by hate and more hate. Kudos to you Zagor.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
He didn't win it only because Federer stop him. He made the finals 2006-2007. His game on other surfaces didn't mature as quickly as his natural game for clay.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Actually, I think most Fred fans are just having a dig at some sensitive Nadal fans, who fall for it each time.
(waiting for tlm to say i have my head up my a and clarky to call me delusional
).
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Of course, which is why I didn't say all Fed fans would jump on the Rafa bandwagon. But people do have the tendency to like the best, and the "best" when it comes to tennis, for many or most but not all, are those who win the most, and that is Federer.
Of course there is no way to know for certain, but don't you think that it's highly likely?
Anyway, my original point is that people only think this way (OP) because Federer has won 16 slams with an attacking game that looks good, whilst Rafa has won 10 with a more gruelling, physical game.
Yes, I am aware. I watched those matches. My point was that he didn't win Wimbledon until 2008, and runner-ups tend to be forgotten unless the match or they themselves become classics.
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OTMPut
Hall of Fame
Another example showing that there is no God.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
You hilarious Nadal fans had better decide whether you are siding with Stack's interview or not. In one thread you guys go with him over a line where he seems to side with Nadal.
OTM, in any case, God likes a level playing field so he made Roger with weaknesses and put Nadal in the same period. See, that proves there is God, otherwise Federer would have been unbeatable. Silly "logic" can go both ways.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You hilarious Nadal fans had better decide whether you are siding with Stack's interview or not. In one thread you guys go with him over a line where he seems to side with Nadal.
OTM, in any case, God likes a level playing field so he made Roger with weaknesses and put Nadal in the same period. See, that proves there is God, otherwise Federer would have been unbeatable. Silly "logic" can go both ways.
Yeah but he's just going to counter with: Nadal is going for his 8th consecutive MC title AND he is the only man to win 3 consecutive slams on 3 surfaces in a leap year! That proves Nadal is God.
OTMPut
Hall of Fame
OTM, in any case, God likes a level playing field so he made Roger with weaknesses and put Nadal in the same period. See, that proves there is God, otherwise Federer would have been unbeatable. Silly "logic" can go both ways.
Yeah, i know the God logic. Oh wait, is it God delusion?
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
I am not falling for any bait, lol. This can go on forever.
AFAIK, Nadal is the GOAT and that's that. I challenge anyone to disprove this.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Nadal is undisputed God, he can not only win slams in leap years, but in light years, and all kinds of years unlike Federer who hasn't won a slam in donkey's years.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
"Nadal" and "talent" just don't work well together.
Fabrice Santoro - now that's talent, a guy who has no forehand, no backhand, no serve yet could stay in the top 100 for most of his singles career and also had a great doubles career winning 2 AO titles.
Fabrice Santoro - now that's talent, a guy who has no forehand, no backhand, no serve yet could stay in the top 100 for most of his singles career and also had a great doubles career winning 2 AO titles.
ivan_the_terrible
Hall of Fame
Most rational people are aghast that in the 21st century, seemingly intelligent people still believe there's an invisible being up in the heavens watching over them. This is why atheists address the issue when public thanking of God by athletes are displayed when, and only when, they win.
People that believe in such higher authority are clearly irrational in their belief since in order to believe in religion, you have to suspend critical thought.
Why doesn't DelPo or Djesus or (insert name here) thank this god when they lose?
People that believe in such higher authority are clearly irrational in their belief since in order to believe in religion, you have to suspend critical thought.
Why doesn't DelPo or Djesus or (insert name here) thank this god when they lose?
kragster
Hall of Fame
Or perhaps nadal fans are pretending to be offended so that it gives them the right to reverse troll back
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Honestly, a lot of people you would think are Nadal haters and keep making digs at him, are really not. I doubt rommil and drak are haters. Just having fun. This place is so polarized.Or perhaps nadal fans are pretending to be offended so that it gives them the right to reverse troll back
I remember the Joker and Andy hatred a few years back when we had trolls like maximo who kept making threads and fighting with everyone abt Murray. gj011 also for Joker. Now that they've gone, the hatred/backlash has really died down.
kragster
Hall of Fame
I don't see any difference between what they do and what someone like bullzilla does. When mature people encounter immature people, the onus is on the mature person to not stoop to the immature person's level. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who incites the fight, the real question of character is who ends the fight. I'm all for silliness on this forum but said posters hardly do any 'good natured ribbing'.
But you're right this forum is majorly polarizing. And that's because of a fundamental human characteristic - 'judgment by association'. Let's say there is a normal fan who loves Federer and this peven erson does not know who Sachin Tendulkar is. All I have to do is repeat in 20 threads that Sachin is better than Federer. Pronto, the animosity that fan feels for me is gradually morphed into animosity against Sachin, without even having seen him!
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Sentinel
Bionic Poster
There's also another, simpler factor here. (Were you suggesting that the normal fan does not like you, so he does not like someone you like). It's his "identification" with Federer/Nadal etc. When you attack something/someone he believes in, it's like a personal attack. He feels threatened, so must defend himself or attack back.
His personal self feels reduced when his belief is attacked, or disproved, or his fave loses.
I know for a fact that prior to joining this forum, I was not a ****, and often rooted for Joker against Fred, usually rooting for the underdog. I was very upset when Joker lost to Fred at USO and Montreal (I think 2005), today that seems unthinkable, lol.
Just because I am a Fred fan, it was assumed I must hate Nadal, and so I often found some Nadal fans attacking me, and me defending them, and that's how things developed.
kragster
Hall of Fame
True. The irony is that outside of this forum, all my tennis discussions with friends are very lighthearted and no one really has a strong dislike for any player. It's surprising how easy it is to change 'neutral emotion' to negative emotion.
I remember a few months back I was driving to work and I felt angry and Im trying to think why I felt angry and I realized it was because I was in a debate with a **** and I was just waiting to reply back. That was when I realized the insanity of it all. Since then 90% of the time I only reply to posters who I think are rational. So you should be honored
. Jk.
Apun94
Hall of Fame
AGREED. Sampras had to deal with so many grass specialists in his day, Ivanisevic, Rafter, Becker, Edberg to name only a few. He was just such a BEAST on that fast grass.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
When did Sampras play Edberg at Wimbledon or ever on grass?
Ivanisevic? In the same league as Roddick.
Rafter? First time he won a 4th round match at Wimbledon was 1999, he only played Sampras once at Wimbledon in 2000 - when he choked in the 2nd set breaker
Becker? You mean the same Becker who was in his prime in the late 80's/early 90's when Sampras was a teenager?
You can also mention Lendl, McEnroe, Connors, hell even Borg as he was active for a while in the 90's.
I turned the TV on and the movie film "Snakes on the Plane" (which had actual snakes, not the same flight where Cindy and suresh were having reclination problems) and I thought, that's a serious issue there. Then I just happened to read up on this thread with my name involved in a seemingly serious discussion about silliness and character and ribbing.
So it got me thinking (during commercials) what this place was/is. I have taken a lot of knowledge over the years from other posters about tennis, equipments, movies etc etc, I have met people and played matches against them, meeting somebody (from TW mind you)in Prague to play tennis this June. And oh yeah, I have bought different rackets and gears from TW over the years. But now your question comes up. Do I have the obligation to take everybody here in TTW seriously? Do I need to upease a poster when their favorite players loses? Should I send flowers(with no snakes).
I would like to believe too that I make some people laugh ( I think when they type LOL), I know it sounds snarky, especially to the people who don't agree with it. Yet I really can't apologize if I'm "ribbing" you the wrong way.
So anyways, end of rant, I shalt go back to short, snarky comments. It's a bit unfunny when posts are long and serious (big up namelessone!)
kragster
Hall of Fame
I turned the TV on and the movie film "Snakes on the Plane" (which had actual snakes, not the same flight where Cindy and suresh were having reclination problems) and I thought, that's a serious issue there. Then I just happened to read up on this thread with my name involved in a seemingly serious discussion about silliness and character and ribbing.
So it got me thinking (during commercials) what this place was/is. I have taken a lot of knowledge over the years from other posters about tennis, equipments, movies etc etc, I have met people and played matches against them, meeting somebody (from TW mind you)in Prague to play tennis this June. And oh yeah, I have bought different rackets and gears from TW over the years. But now your question comes up. Do I have the obligation to take everybody here in TTW seriously? Do I need to upease a poster when their favorite players loses? Should I send flowers(with no snakes).
I would like to believe too that I make some people laugh ( I think when they type LOL), I know it sounds snarky, especially to the people who don't agree with it. Yet I really can't apologize if I'm "ribbing" you the wrong way.
So anyways, end of rant, I shalt go back to short, snarky comments. It's a bit unfunny when posts are long and serious (big up namelessone!)
Yes you do make people laugh but why limit your humor to things that are mostly at Nadal /Nadal fan's expense. I could very easily make Fed man-purse and Mirka fat cow jokes all day and get a bunch of *******s to LOL. For example Joel Dali's thread on Federer makes me laugh every time even though I'm not a Fed fan. Simply because it's all positive and silly.
You don't have to appease any poster, there is a lot of medium ground between appeasing a fan base and antagonizing a fan base.
Sorry I couldn't respond right away, some pesky Jehovizzle Witness at the door giving me brochure on how I should live
Yeah, no, leave the universal appeal jokes to somebody else, I will stick with mine. I like to banter with my fellow Nadalettes
Semi-Pro
Hall of Fame
Shut down. Good post my friend lol.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
you can sleep in peace.I would like to believe too that I make some people laugh ( I think when they type LOL), I know it sounds snarky, especially to the people who don't agree with it. Yet I really can't apologize if I'm "ribbing" you the wrong way.
So anyways, end of rant, I shalt go back to short, snarky comments. It's a bit unfunny when posts are long and serious (big up namelessone!)
kragster
Hall of Fame
Sorry I couldn't respond right away, some pesky Jehovizzle Witness at the door giving me brochure on how I should live
Yeah, no, leave the universal appeal jokes to somebody else, I will stick with mine. I like to banter with my fellow Nadalettes
Don't shoo them away, they are beacons of light! (Both jehovah witnesses and Nadaletes).
PrinceMoron
Legend
Every time I went to Wimbledon it was Sampras playing, it gets boring eventually. I guess he had different girlfriends but even so every single match Sampras....
Nearly as bad as McEnroe v some Swede at the BH tournament. Every year, and in the doubles too. Oh and Fleming was late every year too, he only lived down the road and still turned up late for every match.
I don't care who the GOAT is, as long as I don't have to see them every time I have show court tickets.
Nearly as bad as McEnroe v some Swede at the BH tournament. Every year, and in the doubles too. Oh and Fleming was late every year too, he only lived down the road and still turned up late for every match.
I don't care who the GOAT is, as long as I don't have to see them every time I have show court tickets.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Yeah but you know Nadal is better on clay right? You do bring up a good point though, Nadal is not as massively better on clay compared to Federer as people think. Sure he kicks Fed's arse on clay most times, but he is also only slightly behind in H2H on grass and hard where Federer is much better than him overall, so the difference in clay ability is probably more about Fed's troubles with Nadal than his ability on clay. I know he hasn't been as dominant over the rest of the field as Nadal has, but he concentrates on hardcourt, if he did focus on clay he probably could have had almost as much success against the rest of the field as Nadal, but still lose all the time to Nadal himself. Nadal is still a more talented clay courter though.
So much sense in 2 posts!
Yeah but you know a lot of people starte liking Nadal in the first place because he threatened Fed's dominance so much? A lot of Sampras fans started rooting for Nadal. I mean are you saying that most people like Fed cos he wins so much, not becuase his game, but Nadal fans love Nadal for his game? That's a bit biased. Plus Nadal's popularity has shot up recently as he won the set of slams. It has climbed a lot in the last few years.
Yeah I remember on another forum someone listed Sampras's tough clay opposistion naming Guga who Sampras never played on clay.
People also list great players who were totally past it by the time Pete was ruling Wimbledon. Becker won Wimbledon EIGHT years before Pete won his first Wimbledon title.
Edberg won his last slam the year before Pete won his first Wimbledon title, and won his last Wimbledon 3 years before Pete won his first. His last slam final was before Pete won Wimbledon.. And as you said they never met on grass and Sapras never beat Edberg in a slam.
Rafter? The guy barely beat a 19 year old Federer in Halle in 2001 (Federer won a set with a break and Rafter needed 2 tiebreaks)
No-one ever see that Sampras basically was winning a lot of his Wimbledon titles when there were no great grass court players in their prime. He was the only one in the last few years he won. Yet now because of the slowing of the grass, you don't have to be a great grass court player. Nadal and Djokovic won Wimbledon, remember? So slow grass actually means more players can play on it cos you don't even have to be a grass player. In Sampras's day, you had to be a great grass player but he ended up being practically the only one, hence he had it easier. Slowing grass has allowed everyone to play on grass - even Delpo rocked 2 time winner, 5 times finalst Nadal last year.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about?
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
be careful with the frying pans !I cant. Im cooking.
Apun94
Hall of Fame
Wow, so by diminishing each player's value, you just have concluded that Fed is better. (Two can play this game, you know) Ok, take it your way. Who are Fed's main rivals at Wimbledon? Only two players: Roddick and Nadal. Nadal is a clay court specialist. Roddick only has a forehand.
Nah i just tape it then show the blisters to my opponents when I lose.
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