Nadal leads the H2H 7-2 and Djokovic at RG but...

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Since Djokovic won his first ever set against Nadal at RG up until now.

Nadal won 11 sets
Djokovic won 10 sets

I didn't expect the numbers to be so close between them.

Before then, Nadal had won 10 sets in a row against Djokovic at RG. Of course there are many factors in play here, such as Djokovic becoming better on clay, Nadal getting worse on clay.

But it is interesting to see that from the moment Novak finally won his first set against Rafa at RG, it has been quite a tussle between them.

Even the last five matches, it is 3-2 to Nadal, with that extra win for Rafa being that epic 9-7 in the fifth set at RG 2013, in other words they have been very close in Paris for a while, Nadal still the overall superior player between the two and rightfully so, but Novak has landed some shots of his own.
 
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pj80

Hall of Fame
Since Djokovic won his first ever set against Nadal at RG up until now.

Nadal won 11 sets
Djokovic won 10 sets

I didn't expect the numbers to be so close between them.

Before then, Nadal had won 10 sets in a row against Djokovic at RG. Of course there are many factors in play here, such as Djokovic becoming better on clay, Nadal getting worse on clay.

But it is interesting to see that from the moment Novak finally won his first set against Rafa at RG, it has been quite a tussle between them.

Even the last five matches, it is 3-2 to Nadal, with that extra win for Rafa being that epic 9-7 in the fifth set at RG 2013, in other words they have been very close in Paris for a while, Nadal still the overall superior player between the two and rightfully so, but Novak has landed some shots of his own.
Rafa was visibly panicking once he lost that first set...he saw a beast unleashed and was looking to the ref to save him and postpone the contest
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Okay this is Loo territory. You can even point out Djokovic leads 2-1 over the last three matches so he's basically the co-goat as of late.
2006-2014: Nadal period vs Djokovic.
2015-present: Djokovic leads 2-1.

Both have their own periods at Chatrier against eachother ;)
 

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
Okay this is Loo territory. You can even point out Djokovic leads 2-1 over the last three matches so he's basically the co-goat as of late.
Show me another player, outside of Nadal at RG, where you beat him(2015), choke in the final, but still bring it up every day for 6 years. People aren't going on and on about Berdych beating Fed at Wimbledon or Istomin beating Djoker at AO. Why? They didn't win the tournament.

Djoker did what he had to do and beat a down and out and later an injured and aging Nadal at RG, but overall, it doesn't add up to much, especially considering the first win was choked away.
 

goldengate14

Semi-Pro
For me this proves why Djokovic is below fedal greatness wise. He is clearly the most complete player talent wise as he is outstanding on anything but as this thread illustrates he seems to lose crucial matches too often. With his obvious greatness on clay a h2h of 2-7 against his greatest rival is a shockig statistic. There is no reason to be so dominated.
It just adds to the explanation of the shocking loss on Sunday on his best surface. It does seem that when the stakes are ramped up he comes out 2nd best more often than not outside Australia.
As the OP stats show talent wise Djokovic is rigtht up there with Nadal on clay. So to be 2-7 and only hsve 2 titles at RG is a huge underperfomance there.
Of all the ATGs i cannot think of any others who have underperfomedto that extent given their skill set. Perhaps Lendl at Wimbledon? Borg at Us Open although Borg had really nasty febrile crowds bsck then when he played motormouth Mac and connors.
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
Since Djokovic won his first ever set against Nadal at RG up until now.

Nadal won 11 sets
Djokovic won 10 sets

I didn't expect the numbers to be so close between them.

Before then, Nadal had won 10 sets in a row against Djokovic at RG. Of course there are many factors in play here, such as Djokovic becoming better on clay, Nadal getting worse on clay.

But it is interesting to see that from the moment Novak finally won his first set against Rafa at RG, it has been quite a tussle between them.

Even the last five matches, it is 3-2 to Nadal, with that extra win for Rafa being that epic 9-7 in the fifth set at RG 2013, in other words they have been very close in Paris for a while, Nadal still the overall superior player between the two and rightfully so, but Novak has landed some shots of his own.
To be fair, 3 of their last 5 matches were in 3 of Nadal's worst ever clay seasons (statistically speaking), and Djokovic won two of those clashes (2015 & 2021) while losing one (2014)

And they didn't meet during Nadal's resurgence prime 2017 to 2019.

But it should absolutely not be a complaint, because Nadal has also failed to meet Djokovic in a hard court slam since 2014 except for Australia open 2019, about which I have no idea till date how he made the final.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
Irrelevant stat. You need to win the important and decisive sets that give you the match. If nadal and Djokovic are to compulsorily play 5 sets at RG each time they meet, the results would be very different with nadal taking 4 sets to 1. That’s how good he is. Nadal making multiple 3-1 and 3-0 shows how dominant he is over Djokovic in RG. That’s the fact and reality.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
That's why peak for peak, I will always take Roger over Nole at all slams except for Australia open, because even declined 2011 Roger had the best possible version of nole at his mercy.
I don’t like this clause used that fed was declined by 2011. That’s just a BS excuse used by fed fans. Novak or nadal fans never gave excuses for their loss at age 29.
 

Kralingen

Hall of Fame
The Djokovic-Nadal is the most pathetic rivalry ever since 2014 or so. Wimbledon 18 and FO ‘21 are literally the only two decent matches, and they only met in Slams 5x over a 7 year period. Two GOATs and they give us this?

How is that even possible?
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
The Djokovic-Nadal is the most pathetic rivalry ever since 2014 or so. Wimbledon 18 and FO ‘21 are literally the only two decent matches, and they only met in Slams 5x over a 7 year period. Two GOATs and they give us this?

How is that even possible?
Nadal's been a bit of a punching bag on hard courts for Djokovic (and Federer) for awhile now and that's where they met most often. Djokovic also hit a decline on clay and wasn't able to bring it to Nadal as much on the surface (which is also what makes his win this year so impressive: he was able to reverse the trend). On grass, they're both still pretty good but there's only one big tournament on grass so they can't meet as often there.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
For me this proves why Djokovic is below fedal greatness wise. He is clearly the most complete player talent wise as he is outstanding on anything but as this thread illustrates he seems to lose crucial matches too often. With his obvious greatness on clay a h2h of 2-7 against his greatest rival is a shockig statistic. There is no reason to be so dominated.
It just adds to the explanation of the shocking loss on Sunday on his best surface. It does seem that when the stakes are ramped up he comes out 2nd best more often than not outside Australia.
As the OP stats show talent wise Djokovic is rigtht up there with Nadal on clay. So to be 2-7 and only hsve 2 titles at RG is a huge underperfomance there.
Of all the ATGs i cannot think of any others who have underperfomedto that extent given their skill set. Perhaps Lendl at Wimbledon? Borg at Us Open although Borg had really nasty febrile crowds bsck then when he played motormouth Mac and connors.
Beckerserve? Strongrule?
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
That's why peak for peak, I will always take Roger over Nole at all slams except for Australia open, because even declined 2011 Roger had the best possible version of nole at his mercy.
There is no doubt about it. 90erer was toughest matchup for Djokovic. Once Federer switched his racket that hampered his forehand. Only then Djokovic could turn around the rivarly. Even after that Federer was able to beat him consistently in Bo3. (Scored 3 wins against 2015 Djokovic).
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
For me this proves why Djokovic is below fedal greatness wise. He is clearly the most complete player talent wise as he is outstanding on anything but as this thread illustrates he seems to lose crucial matches too often. With his obvious greatness on clay a h2h of 2-7 against his greatest rival is a shockig statistic. There is no reason to be so dominated.
It just adds to the explanation of the shocking loss on Sunday on his best surface. It does seem that when the stakes are ramped up he comes out 2nd best more often than not outside Australia.
As the OP stats show talent wise Djokovic is rigtht up there with Nadal on clay. So to be 2-7 and only hsve 2 titles at RG is a huge underperfomance there.
Of all the ATGs i cannot think of any others who have underperfomedto that extent given their skill set. Perhaps Lendl at Wimbledon? Borg at Us Open although Borg had really nasty febrile crowds bsck then when he played motormouth Mac and connors.
Lol
Rafa is Super Goat on clay.
Once you begin accepting that fact, you might get closer to understanding why is Djokovic 2-7 vs Rafa at Rolland Garros.
 

Turning Pro

Hall of Fame
I always believed 2011 Djokovic would have won French open final if Federer allowed him to proceed.
Well under that presumption, Djokovic 'should have won RG 12,13 and 14 too as hit his peak in 2011 onwards......Nadal is different when it come to RG even if he had many losses at other clay tournaments.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic was a pain in the ass for BOTH Nadal on clay and Federer on grass, that's IMO the reason is the GOAT.
Yet he barely holds his own on hardcourt, which is supposed to be his best surface!

That's Djokovic and especially jokerbots problem, you judge him against the 2 standards vs letting him stand on his own!
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
@Djokodal Fan its not about fed declining, its about him having to deal with 2 five to six years younger great players while declining.
Which I don’t disagree. Djokovic on hard courts and grass vs nadal on clay can be tough customers (who jointly became co-GOATS on the hindsight). I can see where you are coming from.

now both are dealing with folks who are 10 years younger than them and in their prime. Whether these new gen are mugs or genuine contenders is yet to be seen as they enter their prime of their career. We will have to reserve our judgement on them
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
Which I don’t disagree. Djokovic on hard courts and grass vs nadal on clay can be tough customers (who jointly became co-GOATS on the hindsight). I can see where you are coming from.

now both are dealing with folks who are 10 years younger than them and in their prime. Whether these new gen are mugs or genuine contenders is yet to be seen as they enter their prime of their career. We will have to reserve our judgement on them
Mugs.
Djokovic was able to stop Roger since roger was 29, these guys have allowed 39, 35 & 34 yo to continue dominance
 

goldengate14

Semi-Pro
Lol
Rafa is Super Goat on clay.
Once you begin accepting that fact, you might get closer to understanding why is Djokovic 2-7 vs Rafa at Rolland Garros.
So that must mean Nadal is goat then? If a guy is that much better than everyone else in his best conditions yet still ultra competitive on other surfaces then surely he is the Greatest? What you are saying is Nadal perfected the sport on clay.
As it happens i do not think he did. He has always been vulnerable on clay against tall guys who hit huge. For most of his career though he did not face.many apart from Soderling. If he were same age as Tsitsipas and Zverev im not sure he would be winning that many FOs.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
The Djokovic-Nadal is the most pathetic rivalry ever since 2014 or so. Wimbledon 18 and FO ‘21 are literally the only two decent matches, and they only met in Slams 5x over a 7 year period. Two GOATs and they give us this?

How is that even possible?
2020 French Open final was the best.
 
Since Djokovic won his first ever set against Nadal at RG up until now.

Nadal won 11 sets
Djokovic won 10 sets

I didn't expect the numbers to be so close between them.

Before then, Nadal had won 10 sets in a row against Djokovic at RG. Of course there are many factors in play here, such as Djokovic becoming better on clay, Nadal getting worse on clay.

But it is interesting to see that from the moment Novak finally won his first set against Rafa at RG, it has been quite a tussle between them.

Even the last five matches, it is 3-2 to Nadal, with that extra win for Rafa being that epic 9-7 in the fifth set at RG 2013, in other words they have been very close in Paris for a while, Nadal still the overall superior player between the two and rightfully so, but Novak has landed some shots of his own.
Djokovic is great on clay, no doubt about it. Take away Nadal and he is probably sitting on 8 or 9 FO right now

Here are some other similar reflections, though:

Nadal has never beaten Djokovic at the AO but... it took the longest GS final ever (and overcoming a break point down in the 5th set) for peak Djokovic to defeat him in 2012.

Djokovic is a superior HC player than Nadal but... Nadal has a superior USO resume than Djokovic, and a favorable H2H against him at the USO.

Djokovic is better on HC than Nadal but... Nadal has won the American Summer slam (Canada, Cincinnati, and USO) and Djokovic hasn't.

Djokovic is better on grass than Nadal but... Nadal was able to beat prime Fed in Wimbledon, whereas Djokovic was 2 matches point down to old Fed many years later.

Djokovic has a superior Wimbledon resume to Nadal's but... In 2019, he would have likely lost the SF to Nadal had the roof been off.

And so forth, no? ;)
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal has never beaten Djokovic at the AO but... it took the longest GS final ever (and overcoming a break point down in the 5th set) for peak Djokovic to defeat him in 2012.
Nadal led 4-2 in the fifth set. Nadal then famously missed a backhand down the line while near the net at 30-15 up in the next game. Instead of 40-15, it was 30-30, which changed the momentum.
 
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