Nadal looks to miss out on best chance ever to temporarily be #1.

If Nadal cant take the #1 spot before next years Pacific Life event, and it looks extremely likely he wont, in fact extremely far fetched he could, he may not ever get as good a chance to be #1 again as he had. From the time from the start of the 2007 Pacific Life to after 2007 Stuttgart Nadal accumulated 1500 points worth of ranking points, or 300 points worth of race points, more then Federer, even with Federer's win at Wimbledon. That seemed to be the kind of advantage accumulated, that from the period from then until the beginning of March next year he might be able to hang on enough to temporarily be #1, if not at the end of this year, the early part of next year before he inevitably loses it at the Pacific Life. However since that time Federer has accumulated 1470 more ranking points, and 294 more race points, with the potential to push that up to 1845 more ranking points, and 349 race points by the end of this week. We have a couple more events left, with Federer looking much stronger at the moment to do well in those then Nadal.

So while Federer did start last year off more strongly then Nadal, thus having more points to defend, 900 more points worth of ranking points from the start of the year until the start of the Pacific Life, 180 more points worth of race points; it is quite likely he will have a cushion of more then that, and would need to perform more poorly then Nadal in that period to lose the #1 ranking. Given the reminder of who is clearly the superior hard court player that seems highly unlikely. The period early in 2008 was definitely the best chance for Nadal to take the #1 ranking, if he were ever going to. Once we hit the Pacific Life poor Nadal has to defend a Masters title on hard courts (always a daunting task for him) along with a string of other titles (albeit most on clay) while Roger has such ample and quite easy opportunity to gain even more points from his very poor showings at all of Pacific Life, Nasdaq, and Rome. Add to that Djokovic on the rise, and quite likely to be consolidated as a superior player to Nadal on all non-clay surfaces, and Nadal may well have missed his best window to even briefly take the #1 ranking, that being early in 2008 before the Pacific Life began.
 
good point. Although I have to agree with the idea that he won't get number 1 by that point next year, especially given his health condition now. But you are right, once the pacific life open and the sony ericcson tourneys come around, we'll see fed buildup a buffer again to protect his rank
 
I disagree. The slow hardcourts don't suit Federer and it was no coincidence that Nadal was able to gain ground this year at those 2 events (Pacific Life and Miami). Vamos Rafa.
 
All hard courts suit Federer better then Nadal. Federer is a WAY better hard court player then Nadal period, so is Djokovic. Yes it is coincidence that Federer had his worst back to back losses since becoming #1 at the time, and Nadal was able to take advantage of Federer being out, Djokovic being green, and facing none of his flat hitting nemisis with his draw to win a very rare significant hard court event.
 
All hard courts suit Federer better then Nadal. Federer is a WAY better hard court player then Nadal period, so is Djokovic. Yes it is coincidence that Federer had his worst back to back losses since becoming #1 at the time, and Nadal was able to take advantage of Federer being out, Djokovic being green, and facing none of his flat hitting nemisis with his draw to win a very rare significant hard court event.
You know that there is big difference between slow hardcourts and fast hardcourts right? The spring events are much slower and it allows Nadal to use his topspin to his advantage while the US Open Series is much faster. Looking forward to the spring hard court season to prove you wrong.
 
Dont count out the djoker, He has a better chance at winning a hardcourt event such as the aussie and the us open than nadal. IMO the rankings are going to be as folloows next season,
1. federer
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal
4. Davydenko
5. Roddick
6. Murray
7. Nalbandian
8.Super pusher ferrer.
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Dont count out the djoker, He has a better chance at winning a hardcourt event such as the aussie and the us open than nadal. IMO the rankings are going to be as folloows next season,
1. federer
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal
4. Davydenko
5. Roddick
6. Murray
7. Nalbandian
8.Super pusher ferrer.

I dont see Davydenko neccessarily over Roddick, and I am surprised you do given your name :p . Davydenko keeps choking in big matches, and he wont keep doing as well if that happens.
 
I dont see Davydenko neccessarily over Roddick, and I am surprised you do given your name :p . Davydenko keeps choking in big matches, and he wont keep doing as well if that happens.
Davydenko constantly plays many of those smaller tournaments and wins them while roddick keeps getting crappy draws at the grandslam like his meeting with fed in the quarters which constantly keeps his ranking points low.
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Dont count out the djoker, He has a better chance at winning a hardcourt event such as the aussie and the us open than nadal. IMO the rankings are going to be as folloows next season,
1. federer
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal

I concur with this, and have stated such in the past. Nadal will only have a short window to be number 1. Otherwise the Joker will surpass him next year.
 
I was quite surprised by how many excuses Djokovik makes after losing a match. Tennis is tough and he will have to be a lot tougher if he wants to become number one. The top two at the moment just carry on and concentrate on the next match - for them its a case of don't make excuses or complain about pain but get on with it
 
Davydenko constantly plays many of those smaller tournaments and wins them while roddick keeps getting crappy draws at the grandslam like his meeting with fed in the quarters which constantly keeps his ranking points low.

Davydenko playing lots of smaller tournaments has nothing to do with his higher ranking. Roddick earns a lot more points from smaller tournaments than Davydenko who earns most of his points from majors and masters series.
 
If Nadal cant take the #1 spot before next years Pacific Life event, and it looks extremely likely he wont, in fact extremely far fetched he could, he may not ever get as good a chance to be #1 again as he had. From the time from the start of the 2007 Pacific Life to after 2007 Stuttgart Nadal accumulated 1500 points worth of ranking points, or 300 points worth of race points, more then Federer, even with Federer's win at Wimbledon. That seemed to be the kind of advantage accumulated, that from the period from then until the beginning of March next year he might be able to hang on enough to temporarily be #1, if not at the end of this year, the early part of next year before he inevitably loses it at the Pacific Life. However since that time Federer has accumulated 1470 more ranking points, and 294 more race points, with the potential to push that up to 1845 more ranking points, and 349 race points by the end of this week. We have a couple more events left, with Federer looking much stronger at the moment to do well in those then Nadal.

So while Federer did start last year off more strongly then Nadal, thus having more points to defend, 900 more points worth of ranking points from the start of the year until the start of the Pacific Life, 180 more points worth of race points; it is quite likely he will have a cushion of more then that, and would need to perform more poorly then Nadal in that period to lose the #1 ranking. Given the reminder of who is clearly the superior hard court player that seems highly unlikely. The period early in 2008 was definitely the best chance for Nadal to take the #1 ranking, if he were ever going to. Once we hit the Pacific Life poor Nadal has to defend a Masters title on hard courts (always a daunting task for him) along with a string of other titles (albeit most on clay) while Roger has such ample and quite easy opportunity to gain even more points from his very poor showings at all of Pacific Life, Nasdaq, and Rome. Add to that Djokovic on the rise, and quite likely to be consolidated as a superior player to Nadal on all non-clay surfaces, and Nadal may well have missed his best window to even briefly take the #1 ranking, that being early in 2008 before the Pacific Life began.



You are making huge assumptions that Federer and Nadal will maintain their current form going into the 1st quarter of 2008. Your argument is totally ambigous as it needs three of the top players to continue in their current form which is by no means certain. Just as Federer was not expected to underperform at PLO and Miami is the same way people were not expecting Nadal to win at PLO. Anything can happen between now and then? There is no gurantee that Federer will do better than Nadal at PLO and Miami next year despite Nadal's current knee problems. The evidence suggests Nadal may well be able to defend his title at PLo and could also well at Miami. He is a former finalist at Miami after all. In relation to Djokovic, once again we dont know how he will cope with all the hype and pressure on him now that he is no 3 in the world. We all saw how Baghdatis underperformed at the AO this year. Could history repeat itself? We shall see.
 
You are making huge assumptions that Federer and Nadal will maintain their current form going into the 1st quarter of 2008.

Federer is a far better hard court player then Nadal, so anyone making an assumption Federer will probably continue to win big hard court events, and Nadal will continue to lose in the quarters or earlier is a very good one.

Your argument is totally ambigous as it needs three of the top players to continue in their current form which is by no means certain.

Federer and Nadal are the best hard court players, Nadal is a vurnerable and very beatable hard court player. Hard court season is not over until after March. I would say that is a good assumption.

Just as Federer was not expected to underperform at PLO and Miami is the same way people were not expecting Nadal to win at PLO. Anything can happen between now and then?

The likelihood of Federer drawing a surprise package in early rounds of both events like last year, and the draw of one wittling down (except for Djokovic who was in his first Masters final and didnt believe yet) to such a point Nadal can win it, is far far less likely then the more normal outcome of Federer on top or close to it, and Nadal out in the quarters or sooner as usual.

There is no gurantee that Federer will do better than Nadal at PLO and Miami next year despite Nadal's current knee problems.

Federer is much more likely to do much better then Nadal at any hard court event even if Nadal were healthy. Add that Nadal is struggling with injury it makes it even more apparent.

The evidence suggests Nadal may well be able to defend his title at PLo and could also well at Miami. He is a former finalist at Miami after all.

The evidence is much stronger then Federer and Djokovic, the far superior hard court players, are much more likely to be there at the end then Nadal.


In relation to Djokovic, once again we dont know how he will cope with all the hype and pressure on him now that he is no 3 in the world. We all saw how Baghdatis underperformed at the AO this year. Could history repeat itself? We shall see.

Djokovic has already dealt with rising hype and expectations as the year has progressed. He began to come into the spotlight winning the Nasdaq, being in the semis of the French, and has only continued to deal with it. Comparing him to Baghdatis is a joke. Baghdatis is a streaky dangerous player, with nowhere near the mentality or toughness to be a top 5 player, let alone top 3.
 
Uh Nadal does better on slow hard courts and Federer does better on fast hardcourts. There are only 2 slow hard court master series the whole season and thus far Nadal has proven to go further than Fed. Australian Open is a medium-fast hard court. Almost like the US Open.
 
Uh Nadal does better on slow hard courts and Federer does better on fast hardcourts. There are only 2 slow hard court master series the whole season and thus far Nadal has proven to go further than Fed. Australian Open is a medium-fast hard court. Almost like the US Open.

Actualy in 2006 Federer did much better then Nadal in both. That is what you would normally expect. You can thank Guillermo Canas for the reversal of that last year, but unless another miracle sleeper appears it wont happen again. If Pacific Life was so slow James Blake would not have powered Nadal off the court in typical fashion the way he did in the 2006 semis.

Federer has won Pacific Life and Miami 4 times combined, Nadal 1 time.

Hard courts are hard courts. There is no big difference. Federer is much better then Nadal on hard courts period, so is Djokovic now.
 
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Uh Nadal does better on slow hard courts and Federer does better on fast hardcourts. There are only 2 slow hard court master series the whole season and thus far Nadal has proven to go further than Fed. Australian Open is a medium-fast hard court. Almost like the US Open.
Federer so far has done better than Nadal on all hardcourt surfaces. He has already won Indian Wells 3 times and Miami twice. Naturally, no one can win everything all the time, so one has to allow for the occasional bad result. His early loses this year were the exception rather than the norm, so are unimportant in assessing his prowess on slower hardcourts. Nor should we forget he has won the Australian 3 times out of the past 4 years on rebound ace.
 
Federer so far has done better than Nadal on all hardcourt surfaces. He has already won Indian Wells 3 times and Miami twice. Naturally, no one can win everything all the time, so one has to allow for the occasional bad result. His early loses this year were the exception rather than the norm, so are unimportant in assessing his prowess on slower hardcourts. Nor should we forget he has won the Australian 3 times out of the past 4 years on rebound ace.
As of 2007 Nadal is the better slow hard court player. Rebound ace is not really slow though slower than the US Open.
 
You know that there is big difference between slow hardcourts and fast hardcourts right? The spring events are much slower and it allows Nadal to use his topspin to his advantage while the US Open Series is much faster. Looking forward to the spring hard court season to prove you wrong.



Nadal: 1 IW 0 Miami = 1 title on Spring hardcourts
Federer: 3 IW 2 Miami = 5 titles on Spring hardcourts

It seems that Nadal is better suited, no?
 
As of 2007 Nadal is the better slow hard court player. Rebound ace is not really slow though slower than the US Open.

Based on what, a couple fluke bad losses for Federer. No Federer is the best hard court player by far, followed by Djokovic. Nadal is well below both on hard courts right now. Even counting only last year Australian Open, round of 16 loss of Nasdaq, 1st round loss of Pacific Life > Australian Open quarters, Pacific Life Champion, Nasdaq quarters. Also by your rule Djokovic outdid Nadal by winning and finaling in the two, while Nadal quartered and won in those two.

Oh well atleast you have some little thing to hold onto for another 5 months before Federer as usual badly outperforms Nadal at both events erasing the fluke showings of last year.
 
Based on what, a couple fluke bad losses for Federer. No Federer is the best hard court player by far, followed by Djokovic. Nadal is well below both on hard courts right now. Even counting only last year Australian Open, round of 16 loss of Nasdaq, 1st round loss of Pacific Life > Australian Open quarters, Pacific Life Champion, Nasdaq quarters. Also by your rule Djokovic outdid Nadal by winning and finaling in the two, while Nadal quartered and won in those two.

Oh well atleast you have some little thing to hold onto for another 5 months before Federer as usual badly outperforms Nadal at both events erasing the fluke showings of last year.

No one right now can beat federer at a grandslam. Federer will only start losing once he gets alittle bit older. He jsut steps it up so much at the grandslams plus most of his opponents get mentally intimidated when they play him except nadal.
I predict federer to win the french open this season and lose the US open to either djokovic or murray. My big player for next season is andy murray. Mark my words people murray will be a force to be reckoned with
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Based on what, a couple fluke bad losses for Federer. No Federer is the best hard court player by far, followed by Djokovic. Nadal is well below both on hard courts right now. Even counting only last year Australian Open, round of 16 loss of Nasdaq, 1st round loss of Pacific Life > Australian Open quarters, Pacific Life Champion, Nasdaq quarters. Also by your rule Djokovic outdid Nadal by winning and finaling in the two, while Nadal quartered and won in those two.

Oh well atleast you have some little thing to hold onto for another 5 months before Federer as usual badly outperforms Nadal at both events erasing the fluke showings of last year.
Fluke losses? You Fed fans think every loss Fed has is a fluke. Pacific Life is much slower than the Australian Open and therefore is much more challenging for Federer to win. I don't see him beating Nadal on those high bouncing courts. Only Blake was able to do it because of matchups. Djokovic won Miami so Nadal losing to Djokovic there wasn't that bad. Federer's loss to Canas was much worse.
No one right now can beat federer at a grandslam. Federer will only start losing once he gets alittle bit older. He jsut steps it up so much at the grandslams plus most of his opponents get mentally intimidated when they play him except nadal.
I predict federer to win the french open this season and lose the US open to either djokovic or murray. My big player for next season is andy murray. Mark my words people murray will be a force to be reckoned with
Only if Nadal is injured. Even than Fed might lose to Djokovic.
 
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As of 2007 Nadal is the better slow hard court player. Rebound ace is not really slow though slower than the US Open.
So on this basis Federer will be better if he posts better results than Nadal in IW and Miami next year, and Djokovic is currently better than everyone on slower hardcourts? Not that they are particularly slow.
 
Fluke losses? You Fed fans think every loss Fed has is a fluke. Pacific Life is much slower than the Australian Open and therefore is much more challenging for Federer to win. I don't see him beating Nadal on those high bouncing courts. Only Blake was able to do it because of matchups. Djokovic won Miami so Nadal losing to Djokovic there wasn't that bad. Federer's loss to Canas was much worse.

Only if Nadal is injured. Even than Fed might lose to Djokovic.

More wishful thinking. As several posters have observed, Federer has FIVE titles at Indian Wells and Miami. Nadal has ONE.

Blake is by no means the only player who is a bad matchup for Nadal on hard courts. Berdych, Djokovic and Gonzalez (among others) also fall into this category.
 
In 2006 Nadal was coming back from a foot injury which took him out for a while. He definitely wasn't ready. In 2007 Nadal was ready and his results showed it. Only Djokovic was able to take Nadal out and he admit that was one of his best matches. Not all hardcourts are the same so Gonzalez and Berdych have not beaten Nadal during the slow hardcourts of the Spring. So if Nadal is healthy and prepared I don't see why he can't repeat what he did in 2007.
 
In 2006 Nadal was coming back from a foot injury which took him out for a while. He definitely wasn't ready. In 2007 Nadal was ready and his results showed it. Only Djokovic was able to take Nadal out and he admit that was one of his best matches. Not all hardcourts are the same so Gonzalez and Berdych have not beaten Nadal during the slow hardcourts of the Spring. So if Nadal is healthy and prepared I don't see why he can't repeat what he did in 2007.

No mention of the fact Federer won Pacific Life and Nasdaq in 2006 that you claim his results last year are somehow proof he struggles on. Also your claim on Nadal in 2006 is completely baloney when you consider Nadal already had won a title in Dubai, with a huge win over Federer in the final, BEFORE Pacific Life and Miami. No way was he not ready with that kind of a showing before those events, there are just more guys that have a shot vs him on hard courts, any kind of hard courts.
 
Federer is a far better hard court player then Nadal, so anyone making an assumption Federer will probably continue to win big hard court events, and Nadal will continue to lose in the quarters or earlier is a very good one.

Federer is much more likely to do much better then Nadal at any hard court event even if Nadal were healthy. Add that Nadal is struggling with injury it makes it even more apparent.

Brilliant stuff here!
 
Fluke losses? You Fed fans think every loss Fed has is a fluke. Pacific Life is much slower than the Australian Open and therefore is much more challenging for Federer to win. I don't see him beating Nadal on those high bouncing courts. Only Blake was able to do it because of matchups. Djokovic won Miami so Nadal losing to Djokovic there wasn't that bad. Federer's loss to Canas was much worse.

Only if Nadal is injured. Even than Fed might lose to Djokovic.

LOL...look who is making excuses now.

foot injury? he won dubai before as someone already mentioned. Until further notice, federer >>>>nadal on any kind of HC.
 
LOL...look who is making excuses now.

foot injury? he won dubai before as someone already mentioned. Until further notice, federer >>>>nadal on any kind of HC.
Lol look who got to the final of a slow hard court and who didn't? There are very few slow hard court events and Nadal has gone furthur in all 3 of those slow hard court events to Federer. Nalbandian scares me though as he is on fire right now and Nadal doesn't match up well to Nalbandian. Probably worse than Blake. I'd say Nalbandian is a much tougher matchup for Nadal than Federer.
 
Lol look who got to the final of a slow hard court and who didn't? There are very few slow hard court events and Nadal has gone furthur in all 3 of those slow hard court events to Federer. Nalbandian scares me though as he is on fire right now and Nadal doesn't match up well to Nalbandian. Probably worse than Blake. I'd say Nalbandian is a much tougher matchup for Nadal than Federer.

nadal makes exactly one slow court final this year and suddenly nadal >>federer on slow hardcourts.

federer's been there and done that. nadal still has plenty to do. He hasnt even won miami yet and miami is slower than IW.

federer has won both multiple times.
 
nadal makes exactly one slow court final this year and suddenly nadal >>federer on slow hardcourts.

federer's been there and done that. nadal still has plenty to do. He hasnt even won miami yet and miami is slower than IW.

federer has won both multiple times.
Indian Wells was won by Nadal so that is 2 finals. Get your facts straight. Yes Djokovic beat Nadal at Miami as well as Nalbandian in Paris. Both end up winning the title while Fed didn't even get past the 3rd round in all 3 counting the bye.
 
As of 2007 Nadal is the better slow hard court player. Rebound ace is not really slow though slower than the US Open.
He is the best slow court player no? and slow courts are so few these days! :(
 
It seems Nadal has come within 1000 points of Rogers ranking for the first time ever I think.
I was a bit surprised by this because I thought that the Shanghai points wouldn't come off before the event, but be recalculated after the event.
So Federer has 6530, and Rafa has 5535!!
It will be interesting to see how things go if Federer has a poor TMC.
 
1000 points between Rafa and Federer. Unfortunately this is the closest Rafa will get to Roger for a while. I had big hopes for Nadal this year but he didnt quite match my expectations. Ok Paris was good but he really failed during the us open series. The only realistic way for Rafa to increase hes points is to do better in AO and USO. I dont see this happening next year either :-( On the otherhand he has a lot of points to defend from IW to Wimbledon. I know Rafa will in FO next year but Im not sure if he can win all those clay titles again.

I wonder if Roger has motivation for non-slam events anymore. He failed in miami,IW,Rome, and paris. He also lost to Djoko in canada but Im not sure if this counts as failure :) In non-slam events Fed had a terrible year, but he won 3slams and reached to final at FO. Was this the original plan?
 
I think Nadal still has a chance to become #1 next year (Federer could suffer an early exit from Shanghai & the Australian Open).
 
1000 points between Rafa and Federer. Unfortunately this is the closest Rafa will get to Roger for a while. I had big hopes for Nadal this year but he didnt quite match my expectations. Ok Paris was good but he really failed during the us open series. The only realistic way for Rafa to increase hes points is to do better in AO and USO. I dont see this happening next year either :-( On the otherhand he has a lot of points to defend from IW to Wimbledon. I know Rafa will in FO next year but Im not sure if he can win all those clay titles again.

I wonder if Roger has motivation for non-slam events anymore. He failed in miami,IW,Rome, and paris. He also lost to Djoko in canada but Im not sure if this counts as failure :) In non-slam events Fed had a terrible year, but he won 3slams and reached to final at FO. Was this the original plan?

In what drug induced world did he have a "terrible" year outside of slams, he played all 9 MS and made 5 finals, he played only 2, yes 2 smaller events this year and won both. Ok he had a couple of poor losses to Nalbandian and particularly Djokovic in MS finals, but so what. If 11 finals from 15 events entered is poor then what does that make the rest of the atp tour?
 
In what drug induced world did he have a "terrible" year outside of slams, he played all 9 MS and made 5 finals, he played only 2, yes 2 smaller events this year and won both. Ok he had a couple of poor losses to Nalbandian and particularly Djokovic in MS finals, but so what. If 11 finals from 15 events entered is poor then what does that make the rest of the atp tour?
Compared to previous year...he started the year with almost 9000 ranking points.
 
Compared to previous year...he started with almost 9000 ranking points.

Yes, but compared to all his years as number 1 he still has more points than he's ever had, roughly speaking. He finished 2005 with around 1300 race points, 2004 with around 1200, so in terms of race points at least he's had a good year. The other thing is in 2004 and 2005 he used to pull out of about 3 MS and enter 5 smaller tournaments and win them all (mostly). This year he didn't. 2006 was 3 wins away from being the greatest year that any player has ever had in the history of tennis, do you really think he could repeat that?
 
Ok I see your point. Maybe I should have clarified my point. In the start of 07 it seemed the only way Federer can lose a match is if hes playing on clay and the guy on the otherside of the net is Nadal. In other tournaments he seemed unbeatable...but this year the situation have changed a lot. The big question is will Federer start to lose in early rounds in GS events too? Or was he just unmotivated for example in IW,Miami or Paris?
 
Ok I see your point. Maybe I should have clarified my point. In the start of 07 it seemed the only way Federer can lose a match is if hes playing on clay and the guy on the otherside of the net is Nadal. In other tournaments he seemed unbeatable...but this year the situation have changed a lot. The big question is will Federer start to lose in early rounds in GS events too? Or was he just unmotivated for example in IW,Miami or Paris?

That's sport, it's not good all the time, there are highs and lows. Federer's had a few more lows this year that's all. It's natural, I still think next year will be his best year on tour.
 
I think Nadal still has a chance to become #1 next year (Federer could suffer an early exit from Shanghai & the Australian Open).

Yep, I agree. It's a bit of a longshot in my view, but possible. If Nadal outperforms Fed in Shanghai and Melbourne, then goes to South America for the February clay tournies, he could be #1 in early March.
 
I think Nadal still has a chance to become #1 next year (Federer could suffer an early exit from Shanghai & the Australian Open).

I dont know the ranking system well enough to know what would need to happen, but if that is what it would take it wont happen. Federer does not lose early from those type of tournaments, it is very rare he loses at all let alone early. With Nalbandian getting his ranking up it is that much more unrealistic to think someone ranked that low would beat him before a late round of such a big event. Canas or Volandri types would never beat Federer in a grand slam. Nadal would have to do really well himself instead, whatever that would take I dont know, but that is the only chance for him.
 
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