Nadal never doped

TheMaestro1990

TheMaestro1990

Hall of Fame
Read: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7d6c...nadal-wants-his-drug-test-results-made-public

"Nadal's letter was sent to ITF President David Haggerty on Monday, the same day he filed suit against a former French government minister who suggested he had been doping.

"I know how many times I am tested, on and off competition," Nadal wrote in the letter. "Please make all my information public. Please make public my biological passport, my complete history of anti-doping controls and tests.

"From now on I ask you to communicate when I am tested and the results as soon as they are ready from your labs. I also encourage you to start filing lawsuits if there is any misinformation spread by anyone."

The ITF confirmed it received the letter from Nadal, including the request for his test results to be released under the Tennis Anti-Doping Program.

"The ITF can confirm that Mr. Nadal has never failed a test under the TADP and has not been suspended at any time for an anti-doping rule violation or for any other reason related to the TADP," the ITF said in a statement sent to the AP."
 
Why a separate thread on this?

Nadal has been saying so for years already, even more, he opposed to the Fuentes bloodbags to be destroyed, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Not to mention the ITF is on the case 8 weeks out of the year. Where's the ATP's statement. We all know the ATP tour has more to lose than the Majors.
 
Backspin1183 said:
True. Also, where's the official TTW statement? Their forums have much more to lose without Nadal. I won't believe he doesn't dope until I hear a TTW spokesperson saying otherwise.
Click to expand...
Then said TTW spokesperson would be found guilty of taking bribes by a kangaroo court composed of the very people who accused the spokesperson of taking bribes in the first place.
 
phnx90 said:
It doesn't seem like there is any evidence that would prove to you that he is clean anyway, in the same way that there is no evidence or proof that would persuade some people that global warming is real.
Click to expand...

You surely know that, if ITF commits to hiding a positive (and they would have had to do that , since untill now nothing has come out from them), it is very unlikely for them to change their position now and reveal positives that they hid in the past.

That is, if one subscribes to the thory that ITF hides positives, of which we have hard proofs that it has happened in the past.

So, unless Nadal himself comes out and confirms that he has failed a doping test and the ITF concealed it, there is no knowing whether ITF really concealed a positive doping test.

It is not that difficult to fathom, really.

:cool:
 
Tennis_Hands said:
You surely know that, if ITF commits to hiding a positive (and they would have had to do that , since untill now nothing has come out from them), it is very unlikely for them to change their position now and reveal positives that they hid in the past.

That is, if one subscribes to the thory that ITF hides positives, of which we have hard proofs that it has happened in the past.

So, unless Nadal himself comes out and confirms that he has failed a doping test and the ITF concealed it, there is no knowing whether ITF really concealed a positive doping test.

It is not that difficult to fathom, really.

:cool:
Click to expand...
You didn't address my point, which is that there is literally no evidence or proof in the world that would convince you that he is clean, only proof that he isn't.

Everyone knows what you were saying in your original post; it was abundantly clear.
 
phnx90 said:
You didn't address my point, which is that there is literally no evidence or proof in the world that would convince you that he is clean, only proof that he isn't.

Everyone knows what you were saying in your original post; it was abundantly clear.
Click to expand...

I am discussing this issue in the light of the most recent "development" (i.e. dealing with the circular absurdity of it).

I don't know what you expect to hear.

A number of doctors throughout the recent years keep silent about what is going on in the spanish sport as a whole. Untill that one is convincingly cleared the doubt will forever remain not only with Nadal.

Same for other stuff like his miraculous disappearing injuries, the unorthodox recovery times, his support for doped athletes and moaning about doping tests.

It adds up and in the end it not the fault of those, who notice these things, that they make some conclusions for themselves.

You may not agree with those concluions, but must be blind to not see at least some of the stuff I am talking about.

I see that you also made up your mind, so I don't even understand why exactly you choose to address my posts.

:cool:
 
Never_Say_Never_Again_%E2%80%93_UK_cinema_poster.jpg
 
Tennis_Hands said:
I am discussing this issue in the light of the most recent "development" (i.e. dealing with the circular absurdity of it).

I don't know what you expect to hear.

A number of doctors throughout the recent years keep silent about what is going on in the spanish sport as a whole. Untill that one is convincingly cleared the doubt will forever remain not only with Nadal.

Same for other stuff like his miraculous disappearing injuries, the unorthodox recovery times, his support for doped athletes and moaning about doping tests.

It adds up and in the end it not the fault of those, who notice these things, that they make some conclusions for themselves.

You may not agree with those concluions, but must be blind to not see at least some of the stuff I am talking about.

I see that you also made up your mind, so I don't even understand why exactly you choose to address my posts.

:cool:
Click to expand...
That's an unfair hasty generalization. Are all German companies corrupt based on the level of deceit and corruption seen in Volkswagen at all levels?
 
Last edited:
Tennis_Hands said:
I am discussing this issue in the light of the most recent "development" (i.e. dealing with the circular absurdity of it).

I don't know what you expect to hear.

A number of doctors throughout the recent years keep silent about what is going on in the spanish sport as a whole. Untill that one is convincingly cleared the doubt will forever remain not only with Nadal.

Same for other stuff like his miraculous disappearing injuries, the unorthodox recovery times, his support for doped athletes and moaning about doping tests.

It adds up and in the end it not the fault of those, who notice these things, that they make some conclusions for themselves.

You may not agree with those concluions, but must be blind to not see at least some of the stuff I am talking about.

I see that you also made up your mind, so I don't even understand why exactly you choose to address my posts.

:cool:
Click to expand...
You're still avoiding my question, which I guess is something I should have made clear from the beginning: what evidence then, would you require to believe that Nadal is clean?

And no, I haven't made my decision on this matter, and I'm fully aware of the doping arguments. It's like what, 30% of all Nadal-related posts over the last year or two (the remaining 70% being about his Finnish heritage). I'm looking at this with reasonable suspicion, and am perfectly open to scepticism on Nadal's claims if something doesn't add up. Reasonable suspicion / "keeping your eyes open" is NOT fervent belief that Nadal is doping, which is what you're doing.

All I'm doing is pointing out that you seem entirely convinced that Nadal has been doping, even if hypothetically evidence were to surface that would prove that he is clean beyond all reasonable doubt, because doubt--even if unreasonable--seems to be enough for you to believe entirely that Nadal is dirty. It's almost as if you are using logic to arrive at a foregone conclusion that you've made.

For you to believe that Nadal is clean, you're basically requiring proof of nonexistence. How does one even go about doing that? If Fuentes releases his full client list and Nadal is not there, you'll likely argue that Fuentes covered it up or someone else is giving him the juice.

Edit: I mean yes, it's perfectly possible that Nadal could be doping despite all the negative tests (à la Armstrong), but there is a marked difference between accepting that the possibility exists, and arguing that his negative tests are useless entirely because there is a probability that they aren't accurate. If we were to employ that logic, we'd be stuck in the Stone Age.
 
Last edited:
TheMaestro1990 said:
"From now on I ask you to communicate when I am tested and the results as soon as they are ready from your labs. I also encourage you to start filing lawsuits if there is any misinformation spread by anyone."
Click to expand...

So Nadal now wants the ITF to file lawsuits on people defaming players ? (I remember he once wanted the ATP to take care of the players' health or some such....)

The ITF too is coming after us with lawsuits ? Run.......:eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
sbengte said:
So Nadal now wants the ITF to file lawsuits on people defaming players ? (I remember he once wanted the ATP to take care of the players' health or some such....)

The ITF too is coming after us with lawsuits ? Run.......:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Click to expand...
The International Troll Federation is a covert organization composed of the most infamous trolls in TTW history. They meet in a Chuck-e-Cheese after business hours, and its president is C....
 
TheMaestro1990 said:
Read: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7d6c...nadal-wants-his-drug-test-results-made-public

"Nadal's letter was sent to ITF President David Haggerty on Monday, the same day he filed suit against a former French government minister who suggested he had been doping.

"I know how many times I am tested, on and off competition," Nadal wrote in the letter. "Please make all my information public. Please make public my biological passport, my complete history of anti-doping controls and tests.

"From now on I ask you to communicate when I am tested and the results as soon as they are ready from your labs. I also encourage you to start filing lawsuits if there is any misinformation spread by anyone."

The ITF confirmed it received the letter from Nadal, including the request for his test results to be released under the Tennis Anti-Doping Program.

"The ITF can confirm that Mr. Nadal has never failed a test under the TADP and has not been suspended at any time for an anti-doping rule violation or for any other reason related to the TADP," the ITF said in a statement sent to the AP."
Click to expand...
Now it's Federer's turn to do the same. If he dares that is.
 
phnx90 said:
You're still avoiding my question, which I guess is something I should have made clear from the beginning: what evidence then, would you require to believe that Nadal is clean?

And no, I haven't made my decision on this matter, and I'm fully aware of the doping arguments. It's like what, 30% of all Nadal-related posts over the last year or two (the remaining 70% being about his Finnish heritage). I'm looking at this with reasonable suspicion, and am perfectly open to scepticism on Nadal's claims if something doesn't add up. Reasonable suspicion / "keeping your eyes open" is NOT fervent belief that Nadal is doping, which is what you're doing.

All I'm doing is pointing out that you seem entirely convinced that Nadal has been doping, even if hypothetically evidence were to surface that would prove that he is clean beyond all reasonable doubt, because doubt--even if unreasonable--seems to be enough for you to believe entirely that Nadal is dirty. It's almost as if you are using logic to arrive at a foregone conclusion that you've made.

For you to believe that Nadal is clean, you're basically requiring proof of nonexistence. How does one even go about doing that? If Fuentes releases his full client list and Nadal is not there, you'll likely argue that Fuentes covered it up or someone else is giving him the juice.

Edit: I mean yes, it's perfectly possible that Nadal could be doping despite all the negative tests (à la Armstrong), but there is a marked difference between accepting that the possibility exists, and arguing that his negative tests are useless entirely because there is a probability that they aren't accurate. If we were to employ that logic, we'd be stuck in the Stone Age.
Click to expand...

I will start with the bolded part.

The negative tests would not prove beyond doubt either of the possibilities (that he dopes or that he doesn't), because we already have a hard proof that this game has been played before, so I don't see how this changes anything about Nadal. That was my comment on the current "new" situation.

You seem to want to blend that comment with my more general position (that the probability that Nadal dopes (based on circumstantial evidence) is high. NOTE: this is my position and not what you claim by saying "I am entirely convinced").

I don't know why you insist on that or on that to tell you in what circumstances Nadal would be "clean" in my eyes.

After all, I didn't form my opinion in a day or two, so it is unreasonable to expect that a single occurence or fact will offset all the facts that I registered throughout his career. I can think of such, but then you will say (and it will be) unreasonable to expect that and we will not be going anywhere. If you ask again I can make a suggestion, but I can see before the fact what kind of reaction such a request will cause.

You make a point about Fuentes and I will use it to show how the things that are done cannot be so easily undone.

You say that , if the list of his clients is released and Nadal is not there I will say that Fuentes covered it up and someone else gave him the juice.

Do you say it because you think this (and believe this) is going to happen? Do you believe that Fuentes will come forward and speak?

I sense that your answer will be between "It doesn't matter" and "No", but to hear it from me: "yes" that will be one thing that will be a step in the right direction as far as Nadal's image is concerned (note, one step, not enough).

However, for that I would want to see Fuentes reveal the whole scheme, the people involved: doctors, clinics etc. so that a full investigation can be made and all the main branches of the whole organization are examined (many doctors like Funetes work with other doctors, when developing the more sophisticated methods for doping). That way we can be relatively sure that Nadal cannot stay out of this just because he was not his direct client.

Mind you, I am not talking about the infamous blood bags. That ship has sailed.

Other methods were mentioned in other threads about this and they can also be employed to at least explore the possibilities.

Nadal's opinion on the Fuentes case was heard years and years after the most important events happened. At this point him wanting "the list to be revealed" was exactly as useless for establishing the truth as his most recent reactions about his doping tests.

:cool:
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
That's an unfair hasty generalization. Are all German companies corrupt based on the level of deceit and corruption seen in Volkswagen at all levels?
Click to expand...

I don't know, but after EPA's findings (or rather those of the university team) included information about other german automotive companies that were exceeding the norms (significantly), it was decided from the respective authorities to test a number of models with diesel engines:

Here some articles about the procedings and the actions of different government organizations after the scandal:

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...hen-auch-andere-Autobauer-unter-Verdacht.html

Here the consequences from the VW scandal and the reaction of different car producers to the findings of the administration responsible for the regulations:

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/2016-04/abgas-skandal-auto-rueckruf

It is in German (you will have to do the work, if you want to know exactly what the articles say), but a number of car producers are calling several hundred tousand vehicles back, so that they are checked and if necessary brought to condition that is relevant to the already changed regulations that allowed the car producers to play with those emissions.

Among those companies are Mercedes, VW with its companies (that includes Audi, Porsche) etc but also non-german producers.

The regulations of the European union allow for technical exceptions, when the motor of the car is endangered or (and) the safe work of the car should be guaranteed and that was used from a wide range of car producers.

Here is the list of models, where the emissions of NO are manipulated with technical solutions that, according to the officials from the said administration, were not adequate to the real situation.

  • Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0 l Euro 5
  • Audi A6 V6 3.0 l Euro 5
  • Chevrolet Cruze 2.0 l Euro 5
  • Dacia Sandero 1.5 l Euro 6
  • Fiat Ducato 3.0 l Euro 5
  • Ford C-Max 1.5 l und 2.0 l Euro 6
  • Hyundai ix35 2.0 l Euro 5
  • Hyundai i20 1.1 l Euro 6
  • Jaguar XE 2.0 l Euro 6
  • Jeep Cherokee 2.0 l Euro 5
  • Land Rover Range Rover 3.0 l Euro 5
  • Mercedes V 250 Bluetec 2.1 l Euro 6
  • Nissan Navara 2.5 l Euro 5
  • Opel Insignia 2.0 l
  • Opel Zafira 1.6 l Euro 6
  • Porsche Macan 3.0 l V6 Euro 6
  • Renault Kadjar 1.6 l und 1.5 l Euro 6
  • Suzuki Vitara 1.6 l Euro 6
  • Volkswagen Amarok 2.0 l N1 Euro 5
  • Volkswagen Crafter 2.0 l N1 Euro 5
And since apparently every country certifies its own models for the respective eco norms, the said administration is giving information to the respective authorities in the other countries.

It appears that the problem is actually a well know approach of the entire car industry (well known between the people, who guide those companies) and from what I hear is their way to deal with the ever stricter eco-norms and at the same time to offer "improvements" in everything (lower fuel consumption, lower emissions etc).

So, no, you are incorrect about your assumption and your comparison is not very good.

:cool:
 
Last edited:
A smart move by nadal, they will make his non failed samples public so they wont look like they did another cover up (like agassi). He basically put the pressure on them to clear his name.

Do you really think the itf is going to admit guilt? Only when nadal writes his book :)
 
TMF said:
... unlike Nadal who received a series of doping allegations including the latest one from former French minister.
Click to expand...

The former French minister, Roselyne Bachelot, said she "simply echoed" comments from Yannick Noah and Koellerer.
http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/le-scan-...page-sur-nadal-bachelot-persiste-et-signe.php
Google translation:
"I [Bachelot] am flattered by the interest shown in my remarks by Mr. Nadal. I simply echoed comments widely held in the world of tennis and the press, she says before continuing. Newspapers like Le Monde or the team, executives like Yannick Noah spoke to her about the accusation of doping. "
And Roselyne Bachelot to continue in the same tone. "Players have denounced these practices as widely used as the Austrian tennis player Koellerer (and others) who said:" Can Nadal and Ferrer are not doped. "

That's what Roselyne Bachelot said (or 'echoed'): “We know that Nadal’s famous seven-month injury was without a doubt due to a positive [drug test]. When you see a tennis player who stops playing for long months, it is because he has tested positive and because they are covering it up.”
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ue-french-cabinet-minister-doping-allegations


Roselyne Bachelot's sources: people convicted of tax fraud and match fixing.
¤¤ Yannick Noah
On 15 July 1996, the French fiscal authorities demanded payment of 6,807,701 francs in back taxes for 1993–1994. The Paris administrative tribunal court confirmed the decision alleging that Noah kept three non-declared bank accounts in Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United States. ¤¤¤
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yannick_Noah

¤¤ Daniel Köllerer
In 2011, Köllerer was banned for life for match fixing by the Tennis Integrity Unit. This ban was upheld by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in March 2012.¤¤
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Köllerer

LOL
 
In other words, the ITF said its records are confidential and just gave a brief summary in response. Just a clever PR move from Nadal, nothing more.

TheMaestro1990 said:
Read: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7d6c...nadal-wants-his-drug-test-results-made-public

"Nadal's letter was sent to ITF President David Haggerty on Monday, the same day he filed suit against a former French government minister who suggested he had been doping.

"I know how many times I am tested, on and off competition," Nadal wrote in the letter. "Please make all my information public. Please make public my biological passport, my complete history of anti-doping controls and tests.

"From now on I ask you to communicate when I am tested and the results as soon as they are ready from your labs. I also encourage you to start filing lawsuits if there is any misinformation spread by anyone."

The ITF confirmed it received the letter from Nadal, including the request for his test results to be released under the Tennis Anti-Doping Program.

"The ITF can confirm that Mr. Nadal has never failed a test under the TADP and has not been suspended at any time for an anti-doping rule violation or for any other reason related to the TADP," the ITF said in a statement sent to the AP."
Click to expand...
 
TMF said:
There's no reason for Federer because unlike Nadal who received a series of doping allegations including the latest one from former French minister.
Click to expand...
He receives doping allegations from me and many people outside of TWW that should be enough. ;) Seriously what allegations means ?? Lies gut feeling or cheap talk ?? If Rafa wants to play the PR game dirty there would be tons of lies all over Spanish newspapers and press about Fed and Djokovic. Is this what you call allegations ??? Here is my allegation then, FED is the biggest doper the sporting history ever seen he increased his dose of peds after 2013 as he gets even OLDER.;)
 
Last edited:
How come he didn't lobby this hard to save and test the Operation Puerto blood bags?

Thats the other side to this coin...
 
mistik said:
He receives doping allegations from me and many people outside of TWW that should be enough. ;) Seriously what allegations means ?? Lies gut feeling or cheap talk ?? If Rafa wants to play the PR game dirty there would be tons of lies all over Spanish newspapers and press about Fed and Djokovic. Is this what you call allegations ??? Here is my allegation then, FED is the biggest doper the sporting history ever seen he increased his dose of peds after 2013 as he gets even OLDER.;)
Click to expand...

No.

Allegations are based on some sort of facts that hint at events spanning between improbable and impossible (the infamous knee problems), extraordinary or unnatural events and consequences (absence without logical backing (Wimby 2009) superfast returning to winning form (oftentimes basically within the first tournament played)) , condemning behaviour (support for banned dopers complaining about the doping testing), others ( a beast at endurance and built at 15/16) etc.

It adds up.

FYI, NONE of this applies to Federer, but you and other people outside of TWW !?! :rolleyes: are free to make those allegations.

:cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: TMF
Armstrong never failed a doping test either. And because microdosing can get around the passport, literally any tennis player could be.

But because literally any player could be, there's no effectual baseline for comparison. So it becomes unproveable except in the instance of a positive test.

What I'd really like to see is international sports federations having access to player medical records. It's hardly the perfect solution, but better than the current testing system.
 
Smasher08 said:
Armstrong never failed a doping test either. And because microdosing can get around the passport, literally any tennis player could be.

But because literally any player could be, there's no effectual baseline for comparison.

What I'd really like to see is international sports federations having access to player medical records. It's hardly the perfect solution, but better than the current testing system.
Click to expand...

- strict testing at any time
- players with chronical or abnormal conditions out (that require special medications or other (technical) help that can give unfair advantage)
- medical records available for accessing at any time
- full disclosure of prescribed and taken drugs
- quarantine period after illnesses
- medical professionals, found to dope athletes out of their profession for life
- annual detector for the players, doctors and their managers
- the prohibited drugs in groups and for those found doping with most potent drugs ban for life

:cool:
 
Tennis_Hands said:
No.

Allegations are based on some sort of facts that hint at events spanning between improbable and impossible (the infamous knee problems), extraordinary or unnatural events and consequences (absence without logical backing (Wimby 2009) superfast returning to winning form (oftentimes basically within the first tournament played)) , condemning behaviour (support for banned dopers complaining about the doping testing), others ( a beast at endurance and built at 15/16) etc.
Click to expand...
Your made-up crap is not even close to the truth.
 
octobrina10 said:
Your made-up crap is not even close to the truth.
Click to expand...

It's not "crap", and it's not "made up". Many share that view. It fits a pattern, and it's therefore not unreasonable to be suspicious.

But it's proof of precisely nothing.

And now that microdosing has been shown to evade the passport, literally any player could be doping, so there's no baseline for comparison. Ipso facto, the only way to know a player is using PEDs is to catch them with the passport.

That's why people need to be suspicious towards every athlete. Post-Sharapova, post-Armstrong, post-BALCO, and post-Biogenesys we should all be skeptical towards athletes with unlimited endurance or who take prolonged breaks and then come back and are back to peak form within two or three tournaments.

Create a culture where federations decide it's finally time for athletes to start disclosing medical records and taking extra steps to prove they're clean.
 
Last edited:
I never thought of Nadal as a doper anyways. Just incredibly talented with excellent endurance he's obviously worked very hard on his whole life.
 
Tennis_Hands said:
No.

Allegations are based on some sort of facts that hint at events spanning between improbable and impossible (the infamous knee problems), extraordinary or unnatural events and consequences (absence without logical backing (Wimby 2009) superfast returning to winning form (oftentimes basically within the first tournament played)) , condemning behaviour (support for banned dopers complaining about the doping testing), others ( a beast at endurance and built at 15/16) etc.

It adds up.

FYI, NONE of this applies to Federer, but you and other people outside of TWW !?! :rolleyes: are free to make those allegations.

:cool:
Click to expand...
What about his infamous sickness of Fed called MONO ( Dopers cover sickness ) and amazingly it was so minor he didnt missed single tournament.;) I guess god created the man indeed. :D:) What about his back problems especially in 2013 and now they are all gone magically age 35 :cool:and he is sports star not the guy works in an office. Hımm is it a coincidence Fed took a break after MELODONİUM SCANDAL is it a coincidence he injured this time cant play tournaments???You know what it is so easy to play the game of allegations ı simply LOVED İT:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
Brazilian tennis player Nicolas Zanellato suspended for taking Boldenone without TUE
Replies
15
Views
878
Rovesciarete
Rovesciarete
Pistol10
Serious doping test allegations!
Replies
1
Views
876
Djokodalerer31
Djokodalerer31
P
Puerta - Banned For 8 Years
3 4 5
Replies
249
Views
20K
ChaelAZ
ChaelAZ
K
Wayne Odesnik BANNED again for DOPING (15 year ban lol)
2 3
Replies
108
Views
14K
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
V
Casey Kania has been suspended for two years following a breach of the Tennis Anti-Doping Programme
Replies
26
Views
2K
onehandbh
onehandbh
Back
Top