Nadal: Novak Djokovic reached a higher level than Roger Federer

TripleATeam said:
Then how did he win 4 slams? Don't say "because he was good enough to play injured and still win." Nadal was imperious on clay where Djokovic (a pretty good clay player himself) couldn't stop him. He could, however, stop him in 2015, when Nadal was actually recovering from injury. Also, Nadal couldn't have had a dominant 2013 if he were recovering from injury.

Frankly, this seem like "Djokovic's peak doesn't count because Nadal didn't win at that time" to me. We could say the same about pre-2011: "Djokovic was suffering from stamina issues. That means it doesn't count."
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On clay, Nadal can win at 60% most of the time. It was in 2011 that Djokovic beat Rafa on clay for the very first time over 3 sets but couldn't manage it over 5 sets.
 
clayqueen said:
What you've missed out is that Djokovic's numbers are all since 2011 when he was reincarnated. Whilst I reluctantly give him 2011, Rafa was constantly injured or recovering from injury between 2012 and 2016 so was evidently not playing at his best and that's when Djoko got most of his wins.
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Even if I agreed with every word of your post...it's still not relevant to the claim at hand, which is that many of Nadal's wins over Djokovic are hard-fought. Making it about anything else is simply your compulsive dishonesty rearing its head.
 
TheFifthSet said:
Even if I agreed with every word of your post...it's still not relevant to the claim at hand, which is that many of Nadal's wins over Djokovic are hard-fought. Making it about anything else is simply your compulsive dishonesty rearing its head.
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When it gets down to insults, I think

 
TripleATeam said:
Frankly, this seem like "Djokovic's peak doesn't count because Nadal didn't win at that time" to me.
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Well, this has always been the narrative with the VB excuse machine, so why are you surprised? "Doesn't count because our Rafa was a baby", 'Doesn't count because our Rafa was too old", "Doesn't count because our Rafa was injured", "Doesn't count because our Rafa was recovering from injury", "Doesn't count because our Rafa was getting his next injury ready", take your pick. Oh, and you can also use all of them at the same time to explain a single loss, that's perfectly valid as a defense strategy.

TheAssassin said:
Yeah it's skewed, everyone knows that. But Fed wouldn't do as good or better against Nadal than Djokovic has in any scenario.
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What about the 2017 scenario, then? ;)
 
Nadal speaking the truth.

Also winning four majors in a row on three different surfaces also proves that your level is the highest ever, certainly higher than Federer ever could reach. So Nole has not only been the highest level Nadal has faced, but overall Djokovic has proven his tennis is unmatched. It's just facts.
 
I remember when Djokovic destroyed Nadal in Doha in 2016, Nadal was saying that he had never seen anything like it. When Djokovic obtains Earth's Mightiest mode, the pillars of heaven shake. :cool:
 
TheAssassin said:
What about it? It was great to see Federer turn the tables. But Djokovic's streaks in 2011 and 2015-16 against Nadal were even more stunning. ;)
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What Djokovic did to Nadal was remarkable. After that iconic Madrid 09 semi, which ended with 14-4 H2H in favor of Nadal, Djokovic then went 22-10. Not only did he turn around a massive deficit, but did it in a way that was not thought possible.

The first streak including wins in finals across as three surfaces including beating Nadal in three straight slam finals. The second period of dominance was just as absurd, after US2013, heading into their Madrid match this year, Nadal won one match, and lost 11, this includes going on yet another seven match losing streak without winning a single set. I do not think I have ever seen an ATG go through that.
 
Nadal butthurt because he got owned by his pigeon this year and is still considered a clay court specialist despite winning the US(cl)A Open this year.
 
clayqueen said:
How did you come to the conclusion that Nadal's victories over Djokovic are hard fought? Would you care to look at the facts:

http://www.stevegtennis.com/head-to-head/men/Novak_Djokovic/Rafael_Nadal/

Up to 2011, Nadal virtually owned Djokovic until Djokovic was re-created in 2011 and since 2012, Rafa has played either injured or recovering from injury.
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It has been a sheer miracle that for the last 5 years, Nadal managed to move around on the court without the help from a wheelchair, let alone win slams!

Nadal will his 80 year old broken down body still winning big time, 100% based on pure tennis talent since his physicality abandoned him. I'm surprised he won most on clay in that time, the most physically grueling surface but that's why Nadal is true GOAT.

VAMOS
 
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Hitman said:
I remember when Djokovic destroyed Nadal in Doha in 2016, Nadal was saying that he had never seen anything like it. When Djokovic obtains Earth's Mightiest mode, the pillars of heaven shake. :cool:
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Overall those two early matches against Fedal in 2016 (atleast first two sets against Fed at AO) were quite astonishing, Of course, don't think that either of Fedal was in their best form at the time but still to beat them so routinely, it just showed the degree to which Novak got comfortable playing against them which is a bit ridiculous when you think about it. In that period only Stan due to the sheer weight of his shots could challenge Novak in big matches, the rest were fodder.

He really is a Fedal hunter (like Sakuraba was the Gracie hunter).
 
Nadal's right, Djokovic is a much tougher player to play against than Federer as the H2H proves that. 2011 changed things as Nadal finally met someone who could challenge him and there are spells where Djokovic enters where he can blow Rafa off the court like Doha 2016.

Nadal/Djokovic H2H is more even while Nadal owns Federer.
 
The thing with Federer is he's just the most accomplished player because of titles and results, the weak era from 2003-2007 helped that but his matchups against his 2 biggest rivals in the sport, Nadal and Djokovic, the "most talented player evah" has a losing record against both of them.

At the end of the day, frauds always get found out.
 
zagor said:
Overall those two early matches against Fedal in 2016 (atleast first two sets against Fed at AO) were quite astonishing, Of course, don't think that either of Fedal was in their best form at the time but still to beat them so routinely, it just showed the degree to which Novak got comfortable playing against them which is a bit ridiculous when you think about it. In that period only Stan due to the sheer weight of his shots could challenge Novak in big matches, the rest were fodder.

He really is a Fedal hunter (like Sakuraba was the Gracie hunter).
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Yes. Djokovic was montrous in Jan 16, breadstick city for Federer, Nadal and Murray.
 
Nadal does not know to complete a proper simple sentence in English .

God knows what he actually meant when he talked about technical level and greatest .


Djoko nuts need something to celebrate after a rough 1.5 years. Have at it !
 
RF-18 said:
Nadal speaking the truth.

Also winning four majors in a row on three different surfaces also proves that your level is the highest ever, certainly higher than Federer ever could reach. So Nole has not only been the highest level Nadal has faced, but overall Djokovic has proven his tennis is unmatched. It's just facts.
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Yes, it was the highest ( let us just ignore that the No 2 player was 34 year serve bot Fed with zero ground game )
 
Jon Snow said:
The thing with Federer is he's just the most accomplished player because of titles and results, the weak era from 2003-2007 helped that but his matchups against his 2 biggest rivals in the sport, Nadal and Djokovic, the "most talented player evah" has a losing record against both of them.

At the end of the day, frauds always get found out.
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Says the guy who is in his 6th incarnation in the forum in last 2 years ! LMAO
 
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tennisaddict said:
Djoko nuts need something to celebrate after a rough 1.5 years. Have at it !
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See Djokovic fans? This is the type of Federer fan you rally up behind?

Against Nadal it's all cozy but when Djokovic is put above Federer in something, they'll turn their backs against you. lol I can't wait for 2018 for all the backstabbings.
 
RF-18 said:
Nadal speaking the truth.

Also winning four majors in a row on three different surfaces also proves that your level is the highest ever, certainly higher than Federer ever could reach. So Nole has not only been the highest level Nadal has faced, but overall Djokovic has proven his tennis is unmatched. It's just facts.
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Hard to say. Federer had no problem dismissing Djokovic in straights in B03 matches numerous times over that period. Just that he didn't have the movement/footwork to handle B05, but since his movement/footwork and all parts of his game really peaked just this year which would enable him to dismiss Djokovic comprehensively in B05 and of course B03, I think it's clear Federer 2017 is the highest level ever achieved no?
 
metsman said:
Hard to say. Federer had no problem dismissing Djokovic in straights in B03 matches numerous times over that period. Just that he didn't have the movement/footwork to handle B05, but since his movement/footwork and all parts of his game really peaked just this year which would enable him to dismiss Djokovic comprehensively in B05 and of course B03, I think it's clear Federer 2017 is the highest level ever achieved no?
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Exactly , Fed was already at a very high level in 2014-15 as per ND-13 and since then he has only improved .

Clearly Fed 2017 must be the highest level until Fed 2018
 
tennisaddict said:
Exactly , Fed was already at a very high level in 2014-15 as per ND-13 and since then he has only improved .

Clearly Fed 2017 must be the highest level until Fed 2018
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Well obviously there's the chance that Fed opportunistically chooses about once every 4 years to peak ala his good friends Djokovic and Nadal so if Djokovic comes back full force in 2018 Fed's level will decrease to not quite peak, but will then return to peak around 2020 when Djokovic declines severely. If Djokovic is still amor y pazing I have no doubt that Federer will reach new heights in 2018.
 
metsman said:
Hard to say. Federer had no problem dismissing Djokovic in straights in B03 matches numerous times over that period. Just that he didn't have the movement/footwork to handle B05, but since his movement/footwork and all parts of his game really peaked just this year which would enable him to dismiss Djokovic comprehensively in B05 and of course B03, I think it's clear Federer 2017 is the highest level ever achieved no?
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Djokovic didn't care about those matches he lost. He wanted to bring the goods when it mattered and that is what he did. Djokovic proved to be too strong when the chips were down and fed couldnt handle him. Even at wimbledon on grass fed looked really lost out there.
 
RF-18 said:
Djokovic didn't care about those matches he lost. He wanted to bring the goods when it mattered and that is what he did. Djokovic proved to be too strong when the chips were down and fed couldnt handle him. Even at wimbledon on grass fed looked really lost out there.
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Do you even understand what you write dude ? He didn’t care in those matches once he knew he was losing ? Seriously ?
Did he care when he lost to Querrey,Istomin, Thiem and Berdych ?

No matter whatever crap logic you bring up it doesn’t change fact Fed leads in BO3 during Novak’s career peak /prime
 
Novak's level is right up there with Fed's and Rafa's. Insanely good, deserves more appreciation.
 
Just becuase rf-18 does not believe federer is an invincible god and he has opinion no need to go loco in attack mode dudes.
 
tennisaddict said:
Do you even understand what you write dude ? He didn’t care in those matches once he knew he was losing ? Seriously ?
Did he care when he lost to Querrey,Istomin, Thiem and Berdych ?

No matter whatever crap logic you bring up it doesn’t change fact Fed leads in BO3 during Novak’s career peak /prime
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Well he is trolling so why can't I.

When Murray was beating fed apparently also those matches fed didn't care cause all he wanted was the slams. How many times haven't we heard that..
 
Jon Snow said:
See Djokovic fans? This is the type of Federer fan you rally up behind?

Against Nadal it's all cozy but when Djokovic is put above Federer in something, they'll turn their backs against you. lol I can't wait for 2018 for all the backstabbings.
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Easy to say that when you got plot armor so thick, you can get stabbed 20 times and still come back to life so you can have some great times with your sexy aunt.
 
clayqueen said:
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9ecc71a07eaa7d551fdc99ba85f889fc.gif
 
Nadal doesn’t understand Federer's peak play for the obvious match up advantage he always enjoyed. Rest of the field including Djokovic knows Federer's peak level is as high as Djokovic's if not higher and he was able to sustain it far longer than Djokovic did. If Djokovic was so invincible at his peak how was 5yr older Fed ableto consistently challenge him and beat him multiple times in bo3?
 
Topic’s been examined before on here. And OP knows that. Ergo, clickbait troll.

This position works for Nadal. Can’t prop Federer, not after getting hammered time and again by the 36-y-o version of him. Universally acknowledged as GOAT already, so best to fall back on a stance taken years ago in order to boost the prophecy (along with a not-Federer).
 
RF-18 said:
Well he is trolling so why can't I.

When Murray was beating fed apparently also those matches fed didn't care cause all he wanted was the slams. How many times haven't we heard that..
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All wins and losses count.

At the end of the day, Fed won 11 majors in 4 years and reached 18 of 19 finals , which will remain unparalleled in tennis history

That , my friend , is what is called ‘peak tennis ‘ - not 8 months or 4 tournaments where you played well.
 
tennisaddict said:
All wins and losses count.

At the end of the day, Fed won 11 majors in 4 years and reached 18 of 19 finals , which will remain unparalleled in tennis history

That , my friend , is what is called ‘peak tennis ‘ - not 8 months or 4 tournaments where you played well.
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8 months and 4 tournaments? What are you on about?
 
merwy said:
He might have a point but he should also consider the match up advantage he has against Federer that might taint his view
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Pretty much ended the thread. I mean Nadal is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else, but it's pretty obvious to me why he thinks Djokovic reached a higher level. Of course Nadal will think that because until recently he always had the answer to Federer whereas Djokovic has beaten him like a drum at certain points of their rivalry.

He still says Federer is the greatest, he just also says that Djokovic reached the highest level at any one point, which roughly translates to him talking about the H2H matchup with Djokovic.

He's not right or wrong, (too many people with a clear agenda either way saying this) it's an opinion based thing that nobody can figure out because tennis doesn't exist in a vacuum where we put 2006 Federer up against 2011 Djokovic. The mythical peak against peak matchup that so many people here use to try and draw certain conclusions when in actual fact nobody (myself included) knows anything.
 
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tennisaddict said:
All wins and losses count.

At the end of the day, Fed won 11 majors in 4 years and reached 18 of 19 finals , which will remain unparalleled in tennis history

That , my friend , is what is called ‘peak tennis ‘ - not 8 months or 4 tournaments where you played well.
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Holding all four majors at once to your name is 'peak tennis' (whatever you are on about).
 
By the way, very nice comments from Nadal. TTW is assured to have some Fed fans and Nole fans having a civil discussion.
 
tennisfanboy said:
Nadal doesn’t understand Federer's peak play for the obvious match up advantage he always enjoyed. Rest of the field including Djokovic knows Federer's peak level is as high as Djokovic's if not higher and he was able to sustain it far longer than Djokovic did. If Djokovic was so invincible at his peak how was 5yr older Fed ableto consistently challenge him and beat him multiple times in bo3?
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Nadal understands more about tennis than anyone in this forum.
 
Jon Snow said:
The thing with Federer is he's just the most accomplished player because of titles and results, the weak era from 2003-2007 helped that but his matchups against his 2 biggest rivals in the sport, Nadal and Djokovic, the "most talented player evah" has a losing record against both of them.

At the end of the day, frauds always get found out.
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Yep, like Nadal this year ;)
 
RF-18 said:
Haha no TTW knows much better! Have you seen the theories in this thread as to why Nadal thinks this? Fantastic :D
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Would be fun to see these posters telling what they are writing in here to Nadals face. Some kind of Dumb and Dumber comedy :p

teach Rafa about tennis! good luck with that.
 
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