When did Wilander win Wimbledon lol? These millennials don't know tennis history lol.
"Nadal piling more RG titles only cements more and more his Clay GOAT status"
- Thread starter Standaa
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Go to Wikipedia and you will see the following:
Nadal 24-14 Federer (embarrassing tbh)
Djokovic 25-22 Federer
Thiem 3-2 Federer
Del Potro 2-0 Federer (limited to US Open to show Federer lack of success this generation there)
No GOAT in any sport would post such numbers against rivals.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
He's pretty exhausting. I'm sticking to one liners from here on out or one finger
AceSalvo
Legend
Wrong conclusion.
Fedr has 5 consecutive titles on HC something Djoko didn’t do. Djoko did nothing on grass either. Holding 4 grass titles pales in comparison to Fedr. Safe to say Djoko has excelled on Only on HC when comparing to Fedr.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
But, he has the GS, the WTF, and the record for weeks at nr 1. Whereas Nadal has the record for weeks at nr. 2.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Are you saying that Nadal hasn't won it because he was not interested?
Benjamin Rio
Professional
What's embarrassing is to lose early in GS to better players? Something extra special wasi missing
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Because when you have the overall GS record (determining GOAT factor), any new GS adds to your overall lead (GOAT status). If you do not have the overall lead, but only the lead at one GS tournament/surface, a win here can only add to your GOAT status in that surface/GS.
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Yep...he pulls out every year lol. Meaningless event.
Since Nadal was 21 and hit his peak Federer has been no.1 for a total of 12 weeks and never been YE1...that's since 2009.
Federer at 33 had less slams than Nadal does..on every level nadal is ahead.
ForehandRF
Legend
That's unlikely to be honest.Can't see him doing it now after not being able to win there in the last 10 years.USO in the 2010s is a sad story in Fed's career.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Only on Clay
Grampa
Semi-Pro
I see you have started posting short responses to his dull posts, otherwise you would have driven yourself crazy.
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
You managed to declare three 'facts' there that aren't actually facts. It's very impressive.
Fabresque
Legend
There’s a simple solution to all of this
Federer - 20
Nadal - 18
Djokovic - 15
And there you go. All 4 have won a slam on all surfaces. Regardless the amount of slams they’ve won, they’ve all done it on the different surfaces.
We can also make the argument had it not been for Nadal, Federer would dominate RG just as much the US Open back in 2004-2008 and so would Djokovic from 2012-2016 (bar Stan). We can also make the argument that Nadal would have more Wimbledon’s and Australian Open’s had it not been for Federer and Djokovic. That’s how it is. So we look at the slam count. For now, Federer is the GOAT, and that’s all there is to it. Do I think his count will be surpassed? Absolutely. Nadal is right there and Djokovic has won 3 of the last 4 slams. Right now though, we look at the count. As long as Fed is ahead, he’s the GOAT.
Federer - 20
Nadal - 18
Djokovic - 15
And there you go. All 4 have won a slam on all surfaces. Regardless the amount of slams they’ve won, they’ve all done it on the different surfaces.
We can also make the argument had it not been for Nadal, Federer would dominate RG just as much the US Open back in 2004-2008 and so would Djokovic from 2012-2016 (bar Stan). We can also make the argument that Nadal would have more Wimbledon’s and Australian Open’s had it not been for Federer and Djokovic. That’s how it is. So we look at the slam count. For now, Federer is the GOAT, and that’s all there is to it. Do I think his count will be surpassed? Absolutely. Nadal is right there and Djokovic has won 3 of the last 4 slams. Right now though, we look at the count. As long as Fed is ahead, he’s the GOAT.
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
Finally someone who makes sense LOL Too many fanboys on here arguing about stupid ****, when the facts are right there as you say.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
I don't agree.
There's a big difference. Federer and Novak would have dominated clay without Nadal. They mainly lost to him on clay. That's why the Head to head is in gavor of Nadal. Nadal would not have been so dominant in the other slams. He just doesn't have the game with losses to Hewitt Murray Ferrer Gonzalez Wawrinka Tsonga Muller WC Kyrgios Darcis Brown Ferrer Blake Fognini Youhzni Rosol.
World Tour finals is an important event. Indoor accomplishement have to be taken into account. The 6 and 5 wins from Fed and Novak have to count. They have dominated the tour like no one before (season 2005 2006 2011 2015)
AceSalvo
Legend
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veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nadal is the most specialized (= surface dependent) of the big 3.
% of tier 1 events (slams, WTF, masters) won on each surface:
Federer = 54 titles overall : 33 on outdoor hard (61.1%), 8 on grass (14.8%), 7 on clay (13%), 6 on indoor hard (11.1%)
Djokovic = 53 titles overall: 30 on outdoor hard (56.6%), 10 on clay (18.9%), 9 on indoor hard (17%), 4 on grass (7.5%)
Nadal = 52 titles overall: 37 on clay (71.2%), 12 on outdoor hard (23.1%), 2 on grass (3.8%), 1 on indoor hard (1.9%)
Djoko is the most neutral in terms of surface and Nadal the least. It's even more striking when you consider the % of tier 1 played on each surface/environment: 50% on outdoor hard, 28.6% on clay, 14.3% on indoor hard and 7.1% on grass. Djoko is the only one of the 3 whose % follows the % of events played on each surface. Fed has a strong slant toward grass (14.8% titles vs 7.1% events played on the surface) and Nadal an even bigger slant toward clay (71.2% titles vs 28.6% events played on clay).
% of tier 1 events (slams, WTF, masters) won on each surface:
Federer = 54 titles overall : 33 on outdoor hard (61.1%), 8 on grass (14.8%), 7 on clay (13%), 6 on indoor hard (11.1%)
Djokovic = 53 titles overall: 30 on outdoor hard (56.6%), 10 on clay (18.9%), 9 on indoor hard (17%), 4 on grass (7.5%)
Nadal = 52 titles overall: 37 on clay (71.2%), 12 on outdoor hard (23.1%), 2 on grass (3.8%), 1 on indoor hard (1.9%)
Djoko is the most neutral in terms of surface and Nadal the least. It's even more striking when you consider the % of tier 1 played on each surface/environment: 50% on outdoor hard, 28.6% on clay, 14.3% on indoor hard and 7.1% on grass. Djoko is the only one of the 3 whose % follows the % of events played on each surface. Fed has a strong slant toward grass (14.8% titles vs 7.1% events played on the surface) and Nadal an even bigger slant toward clay (71.2% titles vs 28.6% events played on clay).
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Still, Nadal has the record for weeks at nr 2,, and Federer for weeks at nr. 1. And Nadal was not 21 in 2009.
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Nadal King of clay.
CiscoPC600
Hall of Fame
He's got 5 GS hardcourt finals and 19 titles on hardcourts (apart from his GS wins, 3 Indian Wells aka the 5th slam and one of them is an olympic gold medal?). He's not a one-trick pony.
Nadal multiple Majors on all surfaces makes him the most complete player. its not hard.
From what I’ve read, it’s Nadal and Djokovic fans that are a mess. Constant trolling and weak arguments trying to hate on Federer.
Nadal fans are loving Nadal having more Majors than anyone at 33 years old, with plenty more to come clearly.
Djokovic fans happy seeing him playing so well looking like he has 8 years left in him.
Federer fans are in turmoil...like you claiming Federer was past his peak in 2008.
That demolition of Federer in SF has really stung..guess it debunked the theory of this new BH and new racket argument lol
Seek help. You must not get much attention at home to dedicate yourself to this level of trolling.
Federer is an also ran at the US Open, why I have no idea but as soon as peak Nadal, Djokovic and Del Potro arrived he simply faded away in new York. Its strange really.I think he is waiting for 2020 to break that jinx.
My posts are stating facts, I do not get involved in childish name calling as you just did, which proves you have run out of any response.
Im just watching the FO Sf again.
Joint open era record holder with 5 consecutive USO is an “also ran”
You’re a nutcase. Ignored.
> 2008 season for Federer was below 2004-2007 in every possible metric. Proving it wasn’t a peak year. Fact.
> Federer has more AO, USO, YEC titles, masters, higher win% than Nadal on HC therefore is better. Facts.
> “demolition” aged 37 and a half on his worse surface after not playing for 3 years.... great result reaching the SF. No shame in losing to the clay GOAT.
Ignored.
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That was rather salty lol...fact is Federer has failed to win a single USO since Nadal turned 21. Nadal has more HC majors during their peak years at the same time, plus a 3-1 h2h advantage on hard courts at Majors.
Then on clay, it is so one sided it is hard to even argue Federer as top 2 of all time frankly. A true great cannot be schooled so badly on a surface
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Ofcourse he can, by a surface goat.
Nope, Nadal, Sampras, Borg have never been owned by anyone on anything to that extent.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
But they are not in contention yet as goat. Nadal still has the chance though. Btw, Federer won 2 USO after Nadal turned 21. You facts are about as bad as a guy called thedarkknight (or something like that) that used to roam around here...
Nadal turned 21 in 2008...when did Federer win a USO post 2008?
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Benjamin Rio
Professional
Nadal multiple Majors defeats on all surfaces but clay and No WTF makes him the most specialised player. its not hard.[
ForehandRF
Legend
So Federer and Djokovic not had multiple defeats on all surfaces....whats your point other than making daft points lol.
What we do know is Nadal only player with Multiple Majors on all surfaces.
AceSalvo
Legend
How about beating Nadal there ?
I don't think they are ever going to meet there. But it sure will be a very interesting match.
AceSalvo
Legend
The oldest winner at the USO Hard Court is Stan and Nadal at 31. If you take out those two its going to be much lower meaning historically as you get older it tougher to win the USO because its the last slam in the calendar year. Fed messed up 2010/2011 SF and 2015 F. Given how late Fed started to win slams he did very good at the USO.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
I am a fair and reasonable person.
Federer winning more Wimbledons doesn't elevate him just the same for Nadal winning more French.
Or Novak in Australia.
They don't necessarily need to win more at their least accomplished Slams but need to bolster the lesser dominant ones. And for Federer that's less an issue because he dominated 3 Slams, whereas Novak and Nadal have only dominated 1. And then you got the WTF for what it's worth.
It's pretty simple though:
Nadal needs to win more Wimbledons and USOs (yes, 3 for him is not sufficient)
Novak needs to win more USOs as he's a choker there and should have won a LOT more
Fed has in many ways maxed out atop. Only another French would really bump him up much.
Federer winning more Wimbledons doesn't elevate him just the same for Nadal winning more French.
Or Novak in Australia.
They don't necessarily need to win more at their least accomplished Slams but need to bolster the lesser dominant ones. And for Federer that's less an issue because he dominated 3 Slams, whereas Novak and Nadal have only dominated 1. And then you got the WTF for what it's worth.
It's pretty simple though:
Nadal needs to win more Wimbledons and USOs (yes, 3 for him is not sufficient)
Novak needs to win more USOs as he's a choker there and should have won a LOT more
Fed has in many ways maxed out atop. Only another French would really bump him up much.
I just don't understand why Federer has not won for 10 years there, he is clearly good enough so there has to be a reason.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Nadal was born in '86.
he was 21 at W 2008 according to all press articles.
When Sampras won the 14th everyone was calling him the GOAT despite 0 French Opens and being a complete mug on that surface. This need of a "balanced GS distribution" is beyond ridiculous, and now all of the sudden winning too many of 1 particular slam is like a bad thing for your CV? Give me a break.
To those who say that it doesnt matter if Nadal keeps winning RG. Would Nadal be better off trading 6 FO for 1 extra AO to have 2-6-2-3? If your answer is yes, then you are either insane or a troll.
To those who say that it doesnt matter if Nadal keeps winning RG. Would Nadal be better off trading 6 FO for 1 extra AO to have 2-6-2-3? If your answer is yes, then you are either insane or a troll.
No, they are not insane, just mentally destroyed now that Nadal is universally accepted as GOAT. No ifs no buts now. FO2019 was the decider, before the event everyone accepted it so its too late to now use weak arguments such as distribution, which fails any way as Nadal only one with multiple majors on multiple surfaces. Nadal has all bases covered.
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