Nadal - Since 2010 US Open. Djokovic since 2012 Australian Open.

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McEnroeisanartist

Hall of Fame
Just noticed that since the 2010 US Open, Nadal is 4-0 in French Open finals, 0-2 in Australian Open finals, 0-1 in Wimbledon finals, 1-1 in US Open finals, and 0-2 in Year End Finals.

Compare that to Novak who since 2012 Australian Open. Novak is 1-0 in Australian Open finals, 0-2 in French Open finals, 1-1 in Wimbledon finals, 0-2 in US Open finals, and 2-0 in Year End Finals.

It seems Nadal "needs" a finals win at one of the other big tournaments.
 
McEnroeisanartist said:
Just noticed that since the 2010 US Open, Nadal is 4-0 in French Open finals, 0-2 in Australian Open finals, 0-1 in Wimbledon finals, 1-1 in US Open finals, and 0-2 in Year End Finals.

Compare that to Novak who since 2012 Australian Open. Novak is 1-0 in Australian Open finals, 0-2 in French Open finals, 1-1 in Wimbledon finals, 0-2 in US Open finals, and 2-0 in Year End Finals.

It seems Nadal "needs" a finals win at one of the other big tournaments.
Click to expand...

What Nadal needs is the WTF and Nole needs the French Open. That is what they are missing.
 
TMF said:
What Nadal needs is the WTF and Nole needs the French Open. That is what they are missing.
Click to expand...

and what Federer needs is Olympic Gold in singles. He must prepare very well to win the coveted Olympic gold medal (singles) in Rio in 2016. Can he do it?
 
tennisaddict said:
Fed has an olympic gold already in doubles. It is the same trophy. Let us move on.
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Offcourse Federer definitely didn't say in the last olympics that the singles gold meant so much to him and was a Primary Goal in his calendar in 2012 , offcourse he is satsified w/doubles gold ( since it means the same to you ) - Federer himself should be satisfied himself and he SHOULD NOT SAY SUCH THINGS , right ? :twisted:
 
tennisaddict said:
Fed has an olympic gold already in doubles. It is the same trophy. Let us move on.
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I don't think he's a Doubles player like the Bryan Bros.

By the way, I agree with OP that Nadal has lost several finals in last few years. He's made 7 finals this year but won just 4 of them.
 
Backspin1183 said:
and what Federer needs is Olympic Gold in singles. He must prepare very well to win the coveted Olympic gold medal (singles) in Rio in 2016. Can he do it?
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Olympic result has no bearing on a player's legacy. You think Sampras, Laver, Borg, Connors and company are losing sleep because they don't have an Olympic Gold? Get real. Olympics wasn't even important until Nadal won in 2008, and it wasn't even available in the past. Plus, Roger also won a Gold and Silver for his country, but you will never hear Federer fans hold this achievements against past great players. Capiche ?
 
TMF said:
Olympic result has no bearing on a player's legacy. You think Sampras, Laver, Borg, Connors and company are losing sleep because they don't have an Olympic Gold? Get real. Olympics wasn't even important until Nadal won in 2008, and it wasn't even available in the past. Plus, Roger also won a Gold and Silver for his country, but you will never hear Federer fans hold this achievements against past great players. Capiche ?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but if Nadal never wins the WTF (I'm sure he'll win at least once though), I don't see it as big hole in his career. It isn't like he's never won Wimbledon or US Open. Djokovic never winning the French will never be the same as Nadal never winning the Tour Finals. I'm not even sure if it's more popular than Indian Wells or Rome.
 
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Backspin1183 said:
I don't think he's a Doubles player like the Bryan Bros.

By the way, I agree with OP that Nadal has lost several finals in last few years. He's made 7 finals this year but won just 4 of them.
Click to expand...

Again, Olympic is NOT the same as the ATP or the ITF(4 slams).

The goal in the Olympic is to win a medal for your country, preferably the gold. It doesn't matter if it's a single or team event. Each country is awarded equally.

Using your logic, Lebron James gold medal has little value since basketball is a team sport that consist of 12 players. LOL !
 
Backspin1183 said:
I'm sorry but if Nadal never wins the WTF (I'm sure he'll win at least once though), I don't see it as big hole in his career. It isn't like he's never won Wimbledon or US Open. Djokovic never winning the French will never be the same as Nadal never winning the Tour Finals. I'm not even sure if it's more popular than Indian Wells or Rome.
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It isn't.

WTF/YEC have really lost their value compared to the past. They're even worried to make the matches Bo5 because players will skip it for a longer holiday.
 
TMF said:
Again, Olympic is NOT the same as the ATP or the ITF(4 slams).

The goal in the Olympic is to win a medal for your country, preferably the gold. It doesn't matter if it's a single or team event. Each country is awarded equally.

Using your logic, Lebron James gold medal has little value since basketball is a team sport that consist of 12 players. LOL !
Click to expand...

By the way, the Olympic is the ITF's event. Also the Davis Cup.

Speaking of the team titles, Rafa has won the Davis Cup four times (in 2004, 2008, 2009, and 2011). Djoko - one time and Fed - non.

Speaking of representing their country, all the players do this on the ATP Tour. Haven't you noticed that the national anthem of the tournament winner is played at each trophy ceremony?
 
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Federer has olympic medal.

Does Nadal have WTF - I will even take a doubles WTF.

Olympics is a non mandatory event which players are skipping, while players struggle and give their life all year to make it to the WTF top 8. Enormous difference.
 
tennisaddict said:
Federer has olympic medal.

Does Nadal have WTF - I will even take a doubles WTF.

Olympics is a non mandatory event which players are skipping, while players struggle and give their life all year to make it to the WTF top 8. Enormous difference.
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It's not mandatory to make it to the WTF top 8!
 
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octobrina10 said:
It's not mandatory to make it to the WTF top 8!
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But can you deny players dont fight to be in the top 8 ?

I can show you several top players skip olympics, can you show players skipping WTF ?

Anyways , first things first. Fed has an olympic trophy. Does Nadal have one in WTF ?
 
tennisaddict said:
But can you deny players dont fight to be in the top 8 ?

I can show you several top players skip olympics, can you show players skipping WTF ?

Anyways , first things first. Fed has an olympic trophy. Does Nadal have one in WTF ?
Click to expand...

Yes, Nadal has 2 runner-up trophies, just like Federer has one silver olympic medal.
 
Backspin1183 said:
I'm sorry but if Nadal never wins the WTF (I'm sure he'll win at least once though), I don't see it as big hole in his career. It isn't like he's never won Wimbledon or US Open. Djokovic never winning the French will never be the same as Nadal never winning the Tour Finals. I'm not even sure if it's more popular than Indian Wells or Rome.
Click to expand...

Indian Wells is the most prestigious tournament in all of the 9 Master Series, but it's not prestigious as the WTF which is the 5th biggest tournaments outside of the 4 slams(with Wimbledon being the most prestigious).

Nadal fans should stop minimizing/discounting the important of the WTF. There are only a dozen of players(Nadal included) that are considered the all time great, and not have won the WTF feels incomplete. Because WTF is the unique challenge, it test your ability to be the best against the top 8, there's no easy match.

Keep in mind Nadal just qualify for the 2014 WTF for 10 straight years. He had so many chances, in contrast to like Davydenko who actually won this event! And don't say the WTF is Nadal's worst surface so he can't win. That's weak, because Kuerten and Corretja are a clay court specialist who managed to win this tournament even with less tournament appearance than Nadal.

List of past WTF/Master Cup Champions
2013 Novak Djokovic
2012 Novak Djokovic
2011 Roger Federer
2010 Roger Federer
2009 Nikolay Davydenko
2008 Novak Djokovic
2007 Roger Federer
2006 Roger Federer
2005 David Nalbandian
2004 Roger Federer
2003 Roger Federer
2002 Lleyton Hewitt
2001 Lleyton Hewitt
2000 Gustavo Kuerten
1999 Pete Sampras
1998 Alex Corretja
1997 Pete Sampras
1996 Pete Sampras
1995 Boris Becker
1994 Pete Sampras
1993 Michael Stich
1992 Boris Becker
1991 Pete Sampras
1990 Andre Agassi
1989 Stefan Edberg
1988 Boris Becker
1987 Ivan Lendl
1986 Ivan Lendl
1985 Ivan Lendl
1984 John McEnroe
1983 John McEnroe
1982 Ivan Lendl
1981 Ivan Lendl
1980 Bjorn Borg
1979 Bjorn Borg
1978 John McEnroe
1977 Jimmy Connors
1976 Manuel Orantes
1975 Ilie Nastasez
1974 Guillermo Vilas
1973 Ilie Nastase
1972 Ilie Nastase
1971 Ilie Nastase
1970 Stan Smith

NOTE: The only player in the open era that belongs in tier 1 to tier 3 great have not won this event is Wilander. Nadal could be the second player if he never wins this event.
 
TMF said:
Indian Wells is the most prestigious tournament in all of the 9 Master Series, but it's not prestigious as the WTF which is the 5th biggest tournaments outside of the 4 slams(with Wimbledon being the most prestigious).

Nadal fans should stop minimizing/discounting the important of the WTF. There are only a dozen of players(Nadal included) that are considered the all time great, and not have won the WTF feels incomplete. Because WTF is the unique challenge, it test your ability to be the best against the top 8, there's no easy match.

Keep in mind Nadal just qualify for the 2014 WTF for 10 straight years. He had so many chances, in contrast to like Davydenko who actually won this event! And don't say the WTF is Nadal's worst surface so he can't win. That's weak, because Kuerten and Corretja are a clay court specialist who managed to win this tournament even with less tournament appearance than Nadal.

List of past WTF/Master Cup Champions
2013 Novak Djokovic
2012 Novak Djokovic
2011 Roger Federer
2010 Roger Federer
2009 Nikolay Davydenko
2008 Novak Djokovic
2007 Roger Federer
2006 Roger Federer
2005 David Nalbandian
2004 Roger Federer
2003 Roger Federer
2002 Lleyton Hewitt
2001 Lleyton Hewitt
2000 Gustavo Kuerten
1999 Pete Sampras
1998 Alex Corretja
1997 Pete Sampras
1996 Pete Sampras
1995 Boris Becker
1994 Pete Sampras
1993 Michael Stich
1992 Boris Becker
1991 Pete Sampras
1990 Andre Agassi
1989 Stefan Edberg
1988 Boris Becker
1987 Ivan Lendl
1986 Ivan Lendl
1985 Ivan Lendl
1984 John McEnroe
1983 John McEnroe
1982 Ivan Lendl
1981 Ivan Lendl
1980 Bjorn Borg
1979 Bjorn Borg
1978 John McEnroe
1977 Jimmy Connors
1976 Manuel Orantes
1975 Ilie Nastasez
1974 Guillermo Vilas
1973 Ilie Nastase
1972 Ilie Nastase
1971 Ilie Nastase
1970 Stan Smith

NOTE: The only player in the open era that belongs in tier 1 to tier 3 great have not won this event is Wilander. Nadal could be the second player if he never wins this event.
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Funny you should say this considering Nadal's H2H record against pretty much everybody in the TOP 30. It's not like it's a rarity for Nadal to beat the top 8 guys.

And yes, indoor is Nadal's worst surface, anybody can see that.

Rafa did qualify ten years in a row but he missed out on 3 ocassions(2005,2008,2012) and was absolutely awful in 2009 and 2011(was as good as absent after a very tough year). The only time I felt he reached a good playing level indoors was in 2006,2007 and 2010 and he was blocked by Fed each time. 2013 was ho-hum even though he reached the final.

Put this tourney at the beginning of the year and I still say that Rafa wins it at least once.

Winning WTF would prove that Rafa can win indoors, not that he can compete against the top 8. He already showed he can do that on other surfaces and at the biggest venues. Nadal is probably in the top 3 of the best competitors of the Open Era, the guy loves a challenge. On his worst surface, he made 2 SF and 2 F, if it weren't for Fed he would have probably won at least a title here.
 
octobrina10 said:
What? Fed has not learned to play on clay?
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Don't feed the troll :lol: who cares what he thinks about Nadal's career? I mean REALLY? The man's personal hell would literally be having to watch this gif over and over :)

NadalFrenchCHampionship_original.gif


He deserves his little obsession, allow him to wallow in it!
 
MichaelNadal said:
...

NadalFrenchCHampionship_original.gif
...
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Spain's Crown Prince Felipe (current King) is clapping in the stands behind Rafa.
Members of the Spanish royal family have always traveled to Paris to support Rafa (The King of Clay) in the French Open final!

-----
Spain's King Juan Carlos congratulates Rafa for winning his first FO trophy in 2005:
BqQq3ojCUAIsCUC.png
 
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octobrina10 said:
I repeat. Rafa has four Davis Cup trophies. Federer - non.
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Some of those will be eventually stripped. We all know (Operación Puerto) Spainish tennis players doped. So in all likelihood at least one of Nadal's team mates was doping.

w2kah2.png


Especially from the 2004 team. That is when it was most rampant.
 
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FedererWinsWimbledon2014 said:
Some of those will be eventually stripped. We all know (Operación Puerto) Spainish tennis players doped. So in all likelihood at least one of Nadal's team mates was doping.

w2kah2.png


Especially from the 2004 team. That is when it was most rampant.
Click to expand...

You should learn more about Swiss services.
MC, October 12 , 2012: ¤¤ "Armstrong paid Swiss firm for doping services, report charges"¤¤
We all know Armstrong's case.
 
octobrina10 said:
You should learn more about Swiss services.
MC, October 12 , 2012: ¤¤ "Armstrong paid Swiss firm for doping services, report charges"¤¤
We all know Armstrong's case.
Click to expand...

Has a doctor said he provided services to swiss tennis players?

Fuentes said he provided doping services to Spainish tennis players. Therefore it is quite likely that at least one member in all those teams was doped.

Sadly it is not just Fuentes

HE explosive evidence that has outed Lance Armstrong as sport's greatest cheat is certain to make uncomfortable reading for tennis officials aware that a key participant in the scandal has links to tour stars.

There has long been a perception that not all tennis matches are decided on technique and talent alone, and the view is hardly surprising in view of recent history.

After all, Australian Open winner Petr Korda tested positive to steroids, a current tour player, Wayne Odesnik, faced a court here charged with illegally importing human growth hormone into Brisbane, and Andre Agassi, Martina Hingis, Mats Wilander and Jennifer Capriati are among those known to have used illicit drugs.

But it is the realisation that Luis Garcia del Moral, a key figure in the cycling scandal that has ruined Armstrong's reputation, had links to several prominent past and present tennis players that has raised questions about how stringent the sport's anti-doping procedures are.

A quote in the USADA dossier compiled on Armstrong underlines why del Moral's association under any circumstances with players, including French Open finalist Sara Errani is concerning for tennis officials.

Dinara Safina, Maria Kirilenko and David Ferrer are among a group of players to have trained out of an academy in Valencia with del Moral.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...z4G4CA&usg=AFQjCNH0VqvFyYoiinMtzDobikFEYLID6w

Ferrer is a member of 3 of those teams
 
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tennisaddict said:
Davis cup is team trophy. Tennis is an individual sport. Next.
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Really? TMF wrote that 'It doesn't matter if it's a single or team event'.
TMF said:
....
The goal in the Olympic is to win a medal for your country, preferably the gold. It doesn't matter if it's a single or team event. ...

Using your logic, Lebron James gold medal has little value since basketball is a team sport that consist of 12 players. LOL !
Click to expand...
 
tennisaddict said:
Davis cup is team trophy. Tennis is an individual sport. Next.
Click to expand...

To add, when the Czech team won DC over the Serb team, Nole was 2-0. He beat both Stepanek and Berdych. The Serb lost the other 3 rubbers without Nole playing, thus losing 3-2. However everyone in their right mind knows Nole was the best player at DC. The better player doesn't necessary means his country is taking home the trophy.
 
Backspin1183 said:
I'm sorry but if Nadal never wins the WTF (I'm sure he'll win at least once though), I don't see it as big hole in his career. It isn't like he's never won Wimbledon or US Open. Djokovic never winning the French will never be the same as Nadal never winning the Tour Finals. I'm not even sure if it's more popular than Indian Wells or Rome.
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So, you are saying 0 WTF vs 6 WTF titles is not a hole.

But, 1 silver vs 1 gold is a huge hole.

This just sounds very biased.

Also holes are relative. If Rafa wants to be goat, he has holes. But for being just all time great like Sampras, he doesn't have any holes.

But for Fed being the goat, the biggest hole in my opinion is not having the CYGS. He unfortunately failed in all RG finals vs clay goat.

So, if Fed won just 1 RG final vs Rafa and CYGS, that would make Fed holeless :). That would also give him 2 career slams.
 
namelessone said:
Funny you should say this considering Nadal's H2H record against pretty much everybody in the TOP 30. It's not like it's a rarity for Nadal to beat the top 8 guys.

And yes, indoor is Nadal's worst surface, anybody can see that.

Rafa did qualify ten years in a row but he missed out on 3 ocassions(2005,2008,2012) and was absolutely awful in 2009 and 2011(was as good as absent after a very tough year). The only time I felt he reached a good playing level indoors was in 2006,2007 and 2010 and he was blocked by Fed each time. 2013 was ho-hum even though he reached the final.

Put this tourney at the beginning of the year and I still say that Rafa wins it at least once.

Winning WTF would prove that Rafa can win indoors, not that he can compete against the top 8. He already showed he can do that on other surfaces and at the biggest venues. Nadal is probably in the top 3 of the best competitors of the Open Era, the guy loves a challenge. On his worst surface, he made 2 SF and 2 F, if it weren't for Fed he would have probably won at least a title here.
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Your entire post is simply saying it's legitimate for Nadal to never win this prestigious tournament(LOL). Fact is all top tier great from 1-3 except Wilander won this event at least one time.

Clay is also Sampras's worst surface, but why doesn't he gets the free pass for not winning the FO but Nadal gets one? Double standard.:)

There's no proof that Nadal would win WTF had it was scheduled at the beginning of the year. Tennis is a year-round sport, not just the first 8 months. The fatigue excuse is getting tiresome, because there's a long rest before the start of the tournament. Even if it's true that fatigue is a factor, Nadal is not the only player who went through a long season, but so does the other 7 top players. There's no advantage for anyone.
 
tennisaddict said:
Let us just stick to the top 5 tournaments , shall we.

WTF - only the best of best play - winning 4-5 back to back matches against Top 8 for several years is no mean achievement.
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You said go lower and stated the Masters Rafa has not won.....2 of them. Fed has not won 3. And now you're backpedalling :twisted:
 
beast of mallorca said:
You said go lower and stated the Masters Rafa has not won.....2 of them. Fed has not won 3. And now you're backpedalling :twisted:
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This is twisted. Counting holes is like counting achievements in reverse.

Same thing. Glass half full half empty stuff.

You can say Fed has more achievements than Rafa.

Or we can say Rafa has more holes in his career than Fed.

Who cares, potato-potAto.
 
The_Order said:
LOL seriously?

Wimbledon is played on a surface that animals feed and **** on so it doesn't count either.
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Lol what a paethetic comeback, try finding a grass court in your country (I know there are very few here) and see how much you have to pay for an hour and then compare it to clay which is spread around just about every country because it's ultra cheap. What next, carpet isn't actually a surface for tennis but for people to lay on and relax?
 
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