Nadal Stands SO FAR BACK ~ Why Not Pull a Michael Chang??

LaZeR

LaZeR

Professional
Receiving serve Nadal Stands SO FAR BACK ~ just a foot or two in front of the back wall.

Opponents should pull a Michael Chang on occasion ~ EASY POINTS!! :cool:
 
He's been doing this for 15 years now so there's really no point to change at this point in his career. If he would've changed it, he would've done so yearsssss ago
 
It can only be done once and Nadal is quick and alert enough to even get to it like Dimitrov got to it when Donaldson pulled a Chang.
 
titoelcolombiano said:
It would work maybe once, if that
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Why only once? Nadal stands wayyyy back, against almost every opponent. Pulling a Chang would introduce some confusion, then on every other serve he wouldn't know how far back or forward to stand, and this would completely throw off his game for a while. However, the crowd would hate this and boo...
 
Thiem's stick save in the 5th is a great counterpoint to the "nadal would still get to it" crowd.

That shot hung up much longer than an underhand serve

Nadal was closer to the baseline than he is when returning serve


and he still didn't get to it....



It would work 8/10 times, not to mention the mind-games. Anyone who doesn't utilize it against him deserves to lose.
 
LaZeR said:
Why only once? Nadal stands wayyyy back, against almost every opponent. Pulling a Chang would introduce some confusion, then on every other serve he wouldn't know how far back or forward to stand, and this would completely throw off his game for a while. However, the crowd would hate this and boo...
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You are not going to consistently win points against an ATP pro (let alone an all time great) using that as a tactic.
 
I was wondering the same thing throughout the match. Surely, it would work once, and even if not, at least it would keep Nadal more alert and introduce an element of doubt, causing him to stand closer to the baseline.
 
Technology Ruined Tennis said:
... It would work 8/10 times, not to mention the mind-games. Anyone who doesn't utilize it against him deserves to lose.
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Well that's exactly it... When was the last time you saw an underhand serve to throw off your opponent? Barely, anyone at all ever utilizes it, let alone against Nadal, which IMO would work great to throw him off for a while.
 
The idea is great and pros who dont even try it are morons. Even taking a lot of pace off your first serve and slicing it out wide would work.

You arent trying to win lots of points with it. Your trying to force Nadal to change tactics and return closer in, so then you get better value from your hard first serves.

A Nadal that has to return much closer to the baseline is a Nadal who finds his return of serve weapon much less potent. Thats the point.
 
titoelcolombiano said:
You are not going to consistently win points against an ATP pro (let alone an all time great) using that as a tactic.
Click to expand...

Nadal is standing 15 feet behind the baseline. He would have to cover 45-50 feet in about a second and half to even get to the ball if it is somewhat well-placed. Do it a few times and Nadal HAS to adjust his returning position, no two ways about that.

It hasn’t been tried because it would be considered a bold move, and players are stubborn...but the actual effectiveness of it is easy to surmise.
 
True Fanerer said:
Because you look like a jackass when you do it.

Like a granny style free throw.
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Yeah, it’s an optics thing.

Much like the drop shot serve, the granny style free throw is actually a pretty darn viable strategy. Rick Barry is one of the best foul shooters of all time and he shot that way. When offering to teach the shot to Shaquille O’Neal, Shaq replied that he’d ‘rather shoot 0 percent.’
 
TheFifthSet said:
Yeah, it’s an optics thing.

Much like the drop shot serve, the granny style free throw is actually a pretty darn viable strategy. Rick Barry is one of the best foul shooters of all time and he shot that way. When offering to teach the shot to Shaquille O’Neal, Shaq replied that he’d ‘rather shoot 0 percent.’
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Shaq needed some help too. His hands were too big. It worked for Jackie Moon in Semi Pro :D
 
TheFifthSet said:
Nadal is standing 15 feet behind the baseline. He would have to cover 45-50 feet in about a second and half to even get to the ball if it is somewhat well-placed. Do it a few times and Nadal HAS to adjust his returning position, no two ways about that.

It hasn’t been tried because it would be considered a bold move, and players are stubborn...but the actual effectiveness of it is easy to surmise.
Click to expand...

You have more than a second and half, unless it has some wicked backspin on it, which would make it a risky serve.

I know this, because I stand back and people have tried this on me. Once I got wise to it, I was able to run it down despite standing 6 feet behind the baseline and I am nowhere near as fast as Nadal.

You are also assuming that the server can put perfect disguise on it and in my experience they can't, which gives you even more time to react.

Given I can give a server trouble, if I reach such a short serve, could you imagine what Nadal would do with it?

This tactic is nowhere near as easy as people are making out.
 
If Thiem tried to do an underhand serve against Nadal, I am almost certain that he could have been booed by the crowd all through out the match.
 
Forget underhand serve (unless you’re cramping like Chang it is pretty weak); just a well disguised 50 mph spinner that hits halfway between the net and service line would do the trick; not even Nadal would get to it or if he did he’d just pop it up.

But this apparently won’t happen. One of the talking heads on Tennis Channel asked Mark Knowles about it; he said there’s some ‘unwritten code’ that no player wants to violate.
 
They should have a code violation for standing so far back. I am sure Hawkeye can measure it and issue a beep resulting in a foot-fault on the returner :D :D
 
Zoolander said:
The idea is great and pros who dont even try it are morons. Even taking a lot of pace off your first serve and slicing it out wide would work.

You arent trying to win lots of points with it. Your trying to force Nadal to change tactics and return closer in, so then you get better value from your hard first serves.

A Nadal that has to return much closer to the baseline is a Nadal who finds his return of serve weapon much less potent. Thats the point.
Click to expand...

Spot on.

The idea isn’t to win every point doing this. It’s to force Nadal to return closer to the baseline by throwing a few of these in.

In fact you don’t even have to do it. A well placed wide slice or kicked serve is perfect to come in behind for a put away volley. But these morons insist on bombing serve down the middle so Rafa can loop them back to reset the rally.
 
If you could have thought about it, you really think professionals of the sport, former greats, the elite coaches and trainers wouldn't have got the idea?
 
zaph said:
You have more than a second and half, unless it has some wicked backspin on it, which would make it a risky serve.

I know this, because I stand back and people have tried this on me. Once I got wise to it, I was able to run it down despite standing 6 feet behind the baseline and I am nowhere near as fast as Nadal.

You are also assuming that the server can put perfect disguise on it and in my experience they can't, which gives you even more time to react.

Given I can give a server trouble, if I reach such a short serve, could you imagine what Nadal would do with it?

This tactic is nowhere near as easy as people are making out.
Click to expand...


1. I would imagine the players you are competing against are not pros.

2. Nadal regularly stands 15-20 feet behind the baseline, not 6. On points where he stood that close, it would be less viable, and maybe even foolhardy.

3. Nadal’s forward movement has declined immensely the past 5-10 years.
 
I would say the juice isnt worth the squeeze. Sure it may work but if it doesnt he is coming in to the net and has angles to work with. Even if the server came in behind the serve to cut some of that off your leaving way to much open for a player who lives off of those reactionary defensive shots.....
 
I would like to see that but it's probably not gonna happen. Another obvious thing to do is to use the angles more. A short sliced soft serve to Nadals backhand should be hard for him to get to before it's out in the stands. The server could even alter his serve position a bit and stand more to the right. It should be enough time anyway to get into position after the serve. Unfortunately the servers seem to be to brainless to do this. Thank you says Rafa and get's it back 90 % of the time.
 
oh7ee0.jpg

Nadal at the French.
 
zaph said:
You have more than a second and half, unless it has some wicked backspin on it, which would make it a risky serve.

I know this, because I stand back and people have tried this on me. Once I got wise to it, I was able to run it down despite standing 6 feet behind the baseline and I am nowhere near as fast as Nadal.

You are also assuming that the server can put perfect disguise on it and in my experience they can't, which gives you even more time to react.

Given I can give a server trouble, if I reach such a short serve, could you imagine what Nadal would do with it?

This tactic is nowhere near as easy as people are making out.
Click to expand...
I get it that Nadal is fast but the thing is Nadal is standing at least 13 feet behind the baseline not 6. That is some difference. When you get to the serve do you have time to do anything with it? Do you win the point more often than not? That also has to be considered.
 
TheFifthSet said:
Nadal is standing 15 feet behind the baseline. He would have to cover 45-50 feet in about a second and half to even get to the ball if it is somewhat well-placed. Do it a few times and Nadal HAS to adjust his returning position, no two ways about that.

It hasn’t been tried because it would be considered a bold move, and players are stubborn...but the actual effectiveness of it is easy to surmise.
Click to expand...

Nadal can return from the baseline (ie at times during Wimby) he just prefers not to. So the tactic would only work once and if that is an opponents strategy for beating him, then they have already lost the match
 
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