Nadal, The King of Clay, doesn't want to see more hard-court tourneys

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

That's overdoing it for masters on grass. Grass has such a short season anyway. It should have at least one masters. Maybe Queens should be upgraded. And downgrade some hard court masters.

But I also agree about the WTF. The surface should iterate between hard court, clay, and maybe carpet. Grass should be restricted to it's regular summer season. Having a good grass court during winter (WTF time), is simply not possible.

Should start having tournaments in new countries imo. Winter in India is perfect around Delhi. Grass WTF in India! Rainy mouldy London indoor kinda depressing.

 

[ADuck]

The tour has enough clay tournaments as is, but also it has far too many hard tournaments. What the ATP should be looking to do, is change enough of the current hard-court tournaments into grass tournaments, so that they equal the number of tournaments on clay.

The ratio of Hard:Clay:Grass should be something like 2:1:1 or 3:2:2.

 

[joekapa]

Should start having tournaments in new countries imo. Winter in India is perfect around Delhi. Grass WTF in India! Rainy mouldy London indoor kinda depressing.

Maybe.

Grass has lost it's luster. Sure Wimbledon probably is the most "prestigious" slam, but grass as a surface is simply there for nostalgic purposes. Remember that grass was used at the USO and AO during the 70's ans was replaced in the 80's. It was done for a reason. Easier to maintain, fairer surface etc.

 

[joekapa]

The tour has enough clay tournaments as is, but also it has far too many hard tournaments. What the ATP should be looking to do, is change enough of the current hard-court tournaments into grass tournaments, so that they equal the number of tournaments on clay.

The ratio of Hard:Clay:Grass should be something like 2:1:1 or 3:2:2.

No way should grass be placed equal to clay.

Clay is THE dominant surface in Europe (Italy, Spain, Yugoslavia etc), and South America. "It's all about the mud" as Rod Laver used to say. Grass is played by the upper class British at most. For me the clay court season should be extended, but grass should have a masters, but NO MORE.

 

[joekapa]

Where would Pro's train if we get grass and clay on equal footing. Find me the facilities people, and I will agree with you. How about juniors ?

Have any of you ever looked after the lawn in front of your house ? Do you realise how fragile grass is ? IT CANNOT be played all year round. You cannot train on it all year round, or pre season. Courts are scarce.

 

[goatstomin]

They should've atleast have 1 Grass Masters on the tour, preferably before Wimbledon. Extra points if they make it real and fast like the 90's.

 

[joekapa]

They should've atleast have 1 Grass Masters on the tour, preferably before Wimbledon. Extra points if they make it real and fast like the 90's.

You want 90's tennis back ? Did you grow up during that period ? Watch Sampras vs Ivanisevic at Wimby, and then tell me you want it back. You got up to go to the toilet, or grab a drink from the fridge, and the set was over.

NOBODY wants that back.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Maybe.

Grass has lost it's luster. Sure Wimbledon probably is the most "prestigious" slam, but grass as a surface is simply there for nostalgic purposes. Remember that grass was used at the USO and AO during the 70's ans was replaced in the 80's. It was done for a reason. Easier to maintain, fairer surface etc.

And whats wrong about that? Having 3 surfaces gives more variety and challenge. To think whats more practical at all times kills art. WTF in India on grass seems like a pretty good idea to me. We need tennis to be played in these kind of countries as well. Dont think grass has lost its luster. Youngsters love grass, Kyrgios is pretty good at it. We need epicness and beautiful scenes like Wimbledon can provide. Did you know Fred Perry chosen to be buried on the grounds of CC? Grass brings on a different vibe and the fact that the grass get worn down during tournament gives an extra challenge, love it. Have you ever been to Wimbledon? Its so much better than any other tournament Ive been to. Everybody, including players think this is something extra special.

 

[KINGROGER]

Grass is least popular surface. How much % of Tennis in world (at all levels) is played on Grass? what % of kids world wide play and train of grass? What would be total % of grass courts worldwide among all kind of Tennis courts worldwide ? If you look at these numbers you would realize that 1 grand slam is already way more representation for grass courts at highest level. Grass court tennis is just for ceremonial value. Very few amateurs and kids train on grass. Though i don't represent any sample, but just saying, that I never played Tennis on a grass court though I have played on hard courts in 4 countries where I stayed and on clay in 2.

I'm not bothered I still prefer grass to clay.

 

[joekapa]

And whats wrong about that? Having 3 surfaces gives more variety and challenge. To think whats more practical at all times kills art. WTF in India on grass seems like a pretty good idea to me. We need tennis to be played in these kind of countries as well. Dont think grass has lost its luster. Youngsters love grass, Kyrgios is pretty good at it. We need epicness and beautiful scenes like Wimbledon can provide. Did you know Fred Perry chosen to be buried on the grounds of CC? Grass brings on a different vibe and the fact that the grass get worn down during tournament gives an extra challenge, love it. Have you ever been to Wimbledon? Its so much better than any other tournament Ive been to. Everybody, including players think this is something extra special.

It is special. But as I said. Grass cannot become a surface that is played on equal par with clay and hard court, simply by the LOGISTICS of it.

Young people love it ? Sure. But do they play and train on it ?

Please find me the facilities where pro's and juniors can train on it, and I will agree with you.

 

[joekapa]

I'm not bothered I still prefer grass to clay.

Have you ever played on it ?

I grew up with tennis courts and clubs all around me. If I wanted to play on grass I would of had to had the prime minister as an uncle or godfather. They were near non existent except in clubs where someone had to die in order for you to gain membership (Kooyong).

Grass should be given a masters tournament, but that's it. But something tells me, that the All England Club, will fight teeth and nails for a masters tournament to NEVER happen on grass.

 

[ADuck]

Clay is THE dominant surface in Europe (Italy, Spain, Yugoslavia etc), and South America. "It's all about the mud" as Rod Laver used to say. Grass is played by the upper class British at most. For me the clay court season should be extended, but grass should have a masters, but NO MORE.

Well regardless, the more evenly distributed the surfaces are, the more contrasting playing-styles we will see among the players, which means better tennis. By having everything on hard court they make it too easy for one player to dominate the entire year, which is boring. They should want tennis to be as competitive as possible, and they can do that by making that surface ratio more even.

 

[KINGROGER]

It is special. But as I said. Grass cannot become a surface that is played on equal par with clay and hard court, simply by the LOGISTICS of it.

Young people love it ? Sure. But do they play and train on it ?

Please find me the facilities where pro's and juniors can train on it, and I will agree with you.

They don't need to create new facilities just change existing ones.

My suggestions is change the Madrid courts into grass ones, and have it as the grass masters 1000. Then change Paris back to carpet. Have a week in Germany for Halle 500 and Stuttgart 250. Then a week in Spain for Madrid 1000 and Majorca 250. Then the week in U.K. For Queens 500 and Nottingham 250 leading up to Wimbledon.

I'd have the masters looking like:

Indian wells: medium hard
Miami: medium slow hard
MC: slow clay
Rome: slow clay

Madrid: fast grass
Canada: medium-fast hard
Cincinatti: fast HC

Shanghai: medium-fast HC
Paris: fast carpet

If need be make Miami clay as it plays like the dirt anyway.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

It is special. But as I said. Grass cannot become a surface that is played on equal par with clay and hard court, simply by the LOGISTICS of it.

Young people love it ? Sure. But do they play and train on it ?

Please find me the facilities where pro's and juniors can train on it, and I will agree with you.

Does it really matter that they dont train on it so much? I dont see the problem. They like the grass tournaments. Specifically Wimbledon. Try going to Wimbledon one year, its fantastic. Players so happy walking around in the village hanging out with the locals. Its what these players like that matters. They get used to the short grass season from being jr, most of them played wimbledon from teens.

 

[joekapa]

They don't need to create new facilities just change existing ones.

My suggestions is change the Madrid courts into grass ones, and have it as the grass masters 1000. Then change Paris back to carpet. Have a week in Germany for Halle 500 and Stuttgart 250. Then a week in Spain for Madrid 1000 and Majorca 250. Then the week in U.K. For Queens 500 and Nottingham 250 leading up to Wimbledon.

I'd have the masters looking like:

Indian wells: medium hard
Miami: medium slow hard
MC: slow clay
Rome: slow clay

Madrid: fast grass
Canada: medium-fast hard
Cincinatti: fast HC

Shanghai: medium-fast HC
Paris: fast carpet

If need be make Miami clay as it plays like the dirt anyway.

Do you know the cost of maintaining grass courts is ? Clay courts are expensive enough for a good tennis club to maintain (because of the cost of the clay), but having good grass courts would simply be impossible for a good tennis club.

And make no mistake. If tennis clubs themselves don't adopt it as a surface, it will not have a future.

 

[joekapa]

Does it really matter that they dont train on it so much? I dont see the problem. They like the grass tournaments. Specifically Wimbledon. Try going to Wimbledon one year, its fantastic. Players so happy walking around in the village hanging out with the locals. Its what these players like that matters. They get used to the short grass season from being jr, most of them played wimbledon from teens.

That's why it is short. If you make it longer believe me, less players will show up.

 

[KINGROGER]

That's why it is short. If you make it longer believe me, less players will show up.

That's why they need to add more points at stake.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

That's why it is short. If you make it longer believe me, less players will show up.

I dont see changing clay hc and clay tournaments to grass will ever happen, but maybe queens could be a master. My suggestion is to change WTF to grass.

 

[mike danny]

As far as I recall, the YEC has always been played on HC or on carpet. Was it ever played on another surface at one point?

Nadal should be thankful that it's not played on carpet.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

he's ransoming his own appearance during the South American clay swing for a surface reversion (...)

relax, let me handle this... don't worry, i'll be strong.
i'll never pay any ransom!

you've got 25 seconds to release tennis, you ugly little piece of cheatin'spin!
(the only thing you'll get is a jetski with enough fuel to reach finland)

 

[pennc94]

If Nadal saw the speed and bounce of the hard courts before his career he'd be more thankful for the hard courts he has today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drlexus]

Have to agree with this, but I also agree with Nadal in the big picture. Obviously what he's saying is very self serving which is not particularly a surprise, but there shouldn't be more HC tournaments. There are too many of them already. Mind you, Nadal would probably disagree with there being more grass court tournaments as well (as it should be).

A good journalist would put that to him about does he think there should be more grass events. Id love to see his response.

Anything other than a simple yes would have me dropping him down my goat list behind sampras and djokovic on principle for talking double standards.

Its a simple equation...less hard courts more grass courts. End of debate tbh. Yes acalpulco should be clay as should all of latin america but that being said if acapulco had to change it should have been to grass amd maybe moved in the calendar if faesible

 

[Goosehead]

As far as I recall, the YEC has always been played on HC or on carpet. Was it ever played on another surface at one point?

Nadal should be thankful that it's not played on carpet.

wtf was once played on grass in 1974 in aussie..all other wtf since its start in 1970 have been hc/carpet.

 

[ForumMember]

The tour has enough clay tournaments as is, but also it has far too many hard tournaments. What the ATP should be looking to do, is change enough of the current hard-court tournaments into grass tournaments, so that they equal the number of tournaments on clay.

The ratio of Hard:Clay:Grass should be something like 2:1:1 or 3:2:2.

Seriously. Clay = Grass ??
If you want to kill tennis, all you have to do is make it all grass sports. Only few would be able to afford and game which is already expensive would become even more prohibitive.

There is hardly anyone who grows up playing on grass then why have tournaments on main tour for that? One Wimbledon is okay for tradition sake. And two to get ppl prepared for that. (Queen and Halle). That's all we should have.

 

[Tennisanity]

Of course he would want it right now if possible. But that won't change the fact that it's not going to happen, and it wasn't my point either. My point was that the OP has misinterpreted Rafa, making him sound as if he's ransoming his own appearance during the South American clay swing for a surface reversion, which he is not, in this case.

I don't think anyone is really afraid of it happening anytime soon. Most of the responses in this thread are disgusted at Nadal's self serving attitude.

 

[Sereger]

I think the title is pretty clear. "No more hc", not "more clay". We should maintain the variety of the game.
A grass masters event is awesome of course.

 

[Defcon]

Is there no end to this guys endless whining and moaning? He's been asking for every single rule to be changed to suit his game, the sport be damned.

If the court surfaces were truly different, he would just be known as a clay court specialist, making everything slow has benefited him.

 

[amorys90]

Mr. Nadal's answer was in response to the idea of the South American events switching to hard, there was no mention of grass because the South American events are not switching to grass. Besides, there are already more hard court events than clay court. During the Latin American swing, there are hard court events in Europe. So if someone wants to play on hard they can play on hard, and if someone wants to play on clay they can play on clay. Switching everything to hard would ruin the sport. The current clay era is weak enough as it is. Also, clay is the predominant outdoor surface of Europe and South America. Most of the great South American players were clay courters (Villas, Gaudio, Coria, Kuerten...). That would be like making all the American events clay events. Europe and South America should have clay and America and Asia should have hard.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Nadal's academy has 18 HC courts (including the biggest/most central one that has surface just like IW), 7 clay courts and I think 1 other.

Does the Nadal know what is being done in his backyard or is this just a little bit of hypocrisy on part of the peak injured rusty whiny golden bull?

 

[clayqueen]

Nadal's academy has 18 HC courts (including the biggest/most central one that has surface just like IW), 7 clay courts and I think 1 other.

Does the Nadal know what is being done in his backyard or is this just a little bit of hypocrisy on part of the peak injured rusty whiny golden bull?

The Academy has to train the students for the ATP tour so I don't see the point in not having more h/courts than clay courts.

 

[clayqueen]

Nadal's academy has 18 HC courts (including the biggest/most central one that has surface just like IW), 7 clay courts and I think 1 other.

Does the Nadal know what is being done in his backyard or is this just a little bit of hypocrisy on part of the peak injured rusty whiny golden bull?

Why are you calling him 'the Nadal'? He is not an inanimate object. Simply because you don't support him doesn't give you the right to disrespect him.

 

[Luckydog]

Not exactly.
If all the HC courts especially the court of WTF are as damn slow as Miami's,Nadal would not say a word about this topic any more.

 

[guitarra]

Well, around 35% of ATP tournaments are played on clay and I think it's quite fair amount. I don't see any clear reasons why to increase it.

The health issue is not that clear as some might think. Some players suffer more injuries playing on hard but others playing on clay (Federer being the best example).

If anything I believe the grass stint should be extended and at least one ATP 1000 should be played on grass - but that's another discussion.

 

[dh003i]

There should be less hardcourt tournaments, not more. Apart from April-July, hardcourt dominates on the ATP Tour. A bunch of business people looking to cut costs, obviously.

Investors don't build, own and maintain stadiums to lose money. The money in the game is why it attracts as much talents as it does, and it needs to compete with other high-paying sports for talent.

It would be nice for there to be more grass-court tennis, but it is ridiculously expensive to maintain and can't be played on a lot. I'm surprised there isn't a synthetic material that couldn't sufficiently emulate the play of grass, however.

Clay courts are also apparently more expensive to maintain than hard-courts, although it's bizarre that that is the surface choice in Latin America for that reason. Perhaps initial upfront costs are more affordable.

If they added more clay events, they shouldn't all be ones that are very slow like the FO and Rome. The blue clay at Madrid was interesting and they could also bring back the green clay that the USO used to be played on. Faster clay, not all slow clay.

 

[AiRFederer]

Can we just have 1 more big grass tournament please? 1 masters or make WTF grass or hell make Queen's a 1000.

 

[Fedinkum]

Poor carpet...

 

[tenisdecente]

Oh man, some non-sense here.

HC has basically zero cost for maintenance, but clay is not expensive. There is a reason why all around Latin America has a ton of clay courts, other than tradition.
In Lima a local club switched laykold to clay because nobody wanted to play the amateur tourneys which had place there. The reason? Because it was a hard court, which BTW is taxing for the joints. Also, you need an umpire for every single match, something not strictly needed in clay due bounce marks in the dirt.

Back in topic, Nadal may be in something but his lack of mentioning to grass and specially carpet for "variety" is comical. I am all in for less HC courts, but not more clay. I think his worries go around Acapulco becoming HC and other tourneys following suit, like Rio - and honestly you cannot blame the people organizing that tournament: the group players who went to Brazil this year was for sitting in a corner and cry like Murray (or Fed in Australia 2009, dont get mad @Mainad )

I would love one masters in grass, and probably 1-2 more 500-250. But clay has to keep its number of tournaments!

 

[Tennis_Hands]

The Academy has to train the students for the ATP tour so I don't see the point in not having more h/courts than clay courts.

The tournaments in South America have to look for profit, so I don't see why he is criticizing them for their decision to switch (IF they do it).

On the other hand, he is preparing even more HC players, despite of the fact that his native Spain has a long tradition in clay court tennis.

I guess spanish tradition and patriotism are nice words when you do PR, but when it is time for business it is entirely different mater for the Nadal.

Oh, and, by the way, Toni Nadal has officially stated that the main goal of the academy is to provide the students there with a good place in a university and provide them with good preparation for the life ahead (whatever that might mean).

Building ATP stars is not the main goal there.

It is a recreational facility where the star power is used to allure rich parents to sent their kids on a long-ish vacation.

In reality the Nadal is doing exactly the opposite of what he advices others to do.

It is called "hypocrisy".

 

[RS]

He can't talk when it's always been 3 clay masters vs 0 grass masters. Imagine the record Fed would've set if he had 3 grass masters from 03? He'd have at least 35 by now.

Agreed on YEC. Make it carpet like 05 again.

True. But Federer now has a faster AO court. Then Shanghai,Cincinnati,Wimbeldon,Canada,USO etc.

 

[Mainad]

No way should grass be placed equal to clay.

Clay is THE dominant surface in Europe (Italy, Spain, Yugoslavia etc), and South America. "It's all about the mud" as Rod Laver used to say.

Laver? Who won 9 of his 11 Slams on grass? Thought it was "all about the mud"?? Yeah...right!!!

Grass is played by the upper class British at most.

Lol...that will come as news to Laver, Newcombe, Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Sampras, Becker, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray!

 

[JackGates]

Ok, but the most epic matches we had were on HC anyway, so maybe it's better for the sport if grass and clay die. The advantages of that is what Nadal said, tougher competition, so you see high level matches and much closer matches. Plus, I think there are too many tournaments anyway. It takes prestige away from the big ones. And players wouldn't be injured so much if there were less tournaments.

And it gives you time to actually start missing players. When you see them all the time, they lose the value. It's like eating pizza every day, it loses it's value when you have it in abundance.

 

[mike danny]

True. But Federer now has a faster AO court. Then Shanghai,Cincinnati,Wimbeldon,Canada,USO etc.

Canada and USO are not fast.

 

[mike danny]

Ok, but the most epic matches we had were on HC anyway, so maybe it's better for the sport if grass and clay die. The advantages of that is what Nadal said, tougher competition, so you see high level matches and much closer matches. Plus, I think there are too many tournaments anyway. It takes prestige away from the big ones. And players wouldn't be injured so much if there were less tournaments.

And it gives you time to actually start missing players. When you see them all the time, they lose the value. It's like eating pizza every day, it loses it's value when you have it in abundance.

Depends on the pizza

 

[Plamen1234]

Actually there should be more HC tournaments and less clay

 

[vanioMan]

Actually there should be more HC tournaments and less clay

Actually, about 2/3 of the season is played on HCs. So there should be less HCs and more grass tournaments. Clay is just fine.

 

[Clay lover]

I think they should just do a 1:1:1 distribution of hard clay and grass and do the YECs on indoor carpet to shut all the agenda driven people up.

 

[joekapa]

Laver? Who won 9 of his 11 Slams on grass? Thought it was "all about the mud"?? Yeah...right!!!



Lol...that will come as news to Laver, Newcombe, Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Sampras, Becker, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray!

I have played tennis, for a big part of my life. There are literally hundreds of clubs in Melbourne, where I grew up. You want to know how many of those clubs are lawn tennis clubs ? I'm sure you can google it.

 

[cc0509]

Laver? Who won 9 of his 11 Slams on grass? Thought it was "all about the mud"?? Yeah...right!!!



Lol...that will come as news to Laver, Newcombe, Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Sampras, Becker, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray!

Look who you're talking to. The guy can barely spell the word "cat" judging from his posts let alone comprehend the historical significance of grass court tennis to the tennis world including to professional tennis players(who rate winning Wimbledon as their most esteemed achievement.) I think I'll take the word of legends of the sport(like Laver, Sampras, Becker, McEnroe, Edberg, Sampras, Federer, etc.) over some semi-illiterate on a tennis forum!

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I think they should just do a 1:1:1 distribution of hard clay and grass and do the YECs on indoor carpet to shut all the agenda driven people up.

While the whole thing will shut some people up (it will IMO make a lot more a lot more vocal, most notably the Vamosalaplayans, who see as an eternal right for their idol to have conditions that suit his game), the representation of the surfaces has never been driven by mathematical formulae.

The game has its own natural development, and that is disrupted only when reasonable or not so reasonable suggestions are made to alter that natural development.

As it stands, the natural development that we see is that grass has been sidelined for cost reasons, and unless we see a strong interest because of its exclusivity, it will remain a niche surface (which is not necessarily a bad thing). Judging by the attendance that I have seen in Stuttgart, Halle, Queen's and Wimbledon, the surface enjoys a lot of interest, so there is a small but pretty hardcore following.

Carpet is another possibility, but it needs to be reintroduced on a consistent basis and allowed to be played on at smaller and not money driven events like DC for example. Also, not only the WTF, but also most/all indoor events should be able to have it, if they so wish.

There is a lot to be said about the speed of the clay and HC as well, but the natural lashback to the gruelling HC rallies is already there, so I am hopeful that we will have fast HCs again.

Another natural development, based on a weird occurrence (the blue clay) was stopped, but I am also hopeful that this will continue and many TD will choose not only to change the colour of their clay courts, but also their speed and feel (Har-tru returns?).

 

[junior74]

I have played tennis, for a big part of my life. There are literally hundreds of clubs in Melbourne, where I grew up. You want to know how many of those clubs are lawn tennis clubs ? I'm sure you can google it.

To reflect everyday tennis, we need at least one asphalt masters. And possibly an indoor slam on parquet