Nadal to play Hamburg, hoping to also play doubles with Carlos

For me, it doesn't. He wouldn't win a match there against anyone, no matter who they are. Skipping it is the right thing to do.

That's interesting. To my mind (bear in mind, I'm not a Nadal fan, but I'm trying to be fair here), playing it is the right thing to do. I do have the general belief that players skip events more often than they should, but I also have two particular reasons in this case:

1) If he really is unable to win a match against anyone on grass, then he's not actually going to compete for further glory on any surface, even clay. That makes this year just a farewell tour. If it's a farewell tour, Wimbledon is one of the main stopping places on a good farewell tour.
2) If he does have the capacity to be competitive again in future, then it's worth thinking about the fact that the grass-court field is pretty open right now, especially if Djokovic is absent. I don't, of course, think it's likely that Nadal would win Wimbledon in Djokovic's absence. But if he still has top-level tennis in him (I think that's an open question), then I don't think it's impossible that he could have a deep run at Wimbledon.

I suppose a very plausible counter-argument to what I just said is that the truth is in between my option 1 and 2. Right now, he's not competitive, but it's not absolutely impossible that with more match play and practice, he could recover a degree of form that might make him competitive on clay but not so much form that he'd be competitive on grass. Thus, he might as well skip grass to avoid injury and so play clay events in the hope of building up to something better later this year or even in 2025. Plausible enough, I suppose.
 
D

Deleted member 810491

Guest
For me, it doesn't. He wouldn't win a match there against anyone, no matter who they are. Skipping it is the right thing to do.
Nadal didn't even need a serve to beat Fritz in the QF of 2022 Wimbledon, so very few would beat Nadal at Wimbledon this year now that he's healthy and has shaken-off the rust.
Nadal would probably win Wimbledon 2024 if he played it, or lose to Alcaraz.
Nobody moves better than Nadal on grass, plus he won 17 of 19 net points vs. Zverev at 2024 Roland Garros!
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
That's interesting. To my mind (bear in mind, I'm not a Nadal fan, but I'm trying to be fair here), playing it is the right thing to do. I do have the general belief that players skip events more often than they should, but I also have two particular reasons in this case:

1) If he really is unable to win a match against anyone on grass, then he's not actually going to compete for further glory on any surface, even clay. That makes this year just a farewell tour. If it's a farewell tour, Wimbledon is one of the main stopping places on a good farewell tour.
2) If he does have the capacity to be competitive again in future, then it's worth thinking about the fact that the grass-court field is pretty open right now, especially if Djokovic is absent. I don't, of course, think it's likely that Nadal would win Wimbledon in Djokovic's absence. But if he still has top-level tennis in him (I think that's an open question), then I don't think it's impossible that he could have a deep run at Wimbledon.

I suppose a very plausible counter-argument to what I just said is that the truth is in between my option 1 and 2. Right now, he's not competitive, but it's not absolutely impossible that with more match play and practice, he could recover a degree of form that might make him competitive on clay but not so much form that he'd be competitive on grass. Thus, he might as well skip grass to avoid injury and so play clay events in the hope of building up to something better later this year or even in 2025. Plausible enough, I suppose.
He is not going to win too many rounds on grass with the movement he showed this year and there is always a chance of slipping on slick grass in the first week - not worth the injury risk if the Olympics is his main goal left for this year. He might want to give it a go on clay again next year if he thinks he can be a threat still to win big tournaments on clay.

Wimbledon has more prestige in Commonwealth countries and the US - I don’t think it is important enough in the hearts and minds of others where it has to be a stop on his farewell tour. I don’t think he is the type to be interested in doing a farewell tour anyway. I think he wants to play where he wants to play and then retire without much fuss.
 
He is not going to win too many rounds on grass with the movement he showed this year and there is always a chance of slipping on slick grass in the first week - not worth the injury risk if the Olympics is his main goal left for this year. He might want to give it a go on clay again next year if he thinks he can be a threat still to win big tournaments on clay.

Wimbledon has more prestige in Commonwealth countries and the US - I don’t think it is important enough in the hearts and minds of others where it has to be a stop on his farewell tour. I don’t think he is the type to be interested in doing a farewell tour anyway. I think he wants to play where he wants to play and then retire without much fuss.

Fair enough. I didn't say Wimbledon is "the" main stop. Given it's a slam, wouldn't it be one of the four main stop on a farewell tour wherever you are in the world? And for Nadal it was his first slam victory other than at RG, so it might be fairly close to his heart. Take your point about the farewell tour. Stefan Edberg did one, and I always wished he hadn't.
 

Rattie

Legend
If Carlos is planning on playing singles, will he want to play doubles as well? That’s my biggest question mark over them playing doubles together, much as I would love to see it.
 

Incognito

Legend
Nadal didn't even need a serve to beat Fritz in the QF of 2022 Wimbledon, so very few would beat Nadal at Wimbledon this year now that he's healthy and has shaken-off the rust.
Nadal would probably win Wimbledon 2024 if he played it, or lose to Alcaraz.
Nobody moves better than Nadal on grass, plus he won 17 of 19 net points vs. Zverev at 2024 Roland Garros!
Whoever you are, I just want to say that I love all your posts. Dont ever quit this forum :D
 

thrust

Legend
Nadal didn't even need a serve to beat Fritz in the QF of 2022 Wimbledon, so very few would beat Nadal at Wimbledon this year now that he's healthy and has shaken-off the rust.
Nadal would probably win Wimbledon 2024 if he played it, or lose to Alcaraz.
Nobody moves better than Nadal on grass, plus he won 17 of 19 net points vs. Zverev at 2024 Roland Garros!
IF I recall correctly, Zverev beat Nadal at RG-2024. IF Nadal thought he would probably win Wimbledon-2024, he would compete there. But then, this could be another joke post?
 

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
Does Djokovic's likely absence change your thinking on this at all?

No, we have to be realistic here, even whilst being optimistic.

Firstly, Novak being at WIM or not does not affect my thoughts on Rafa’s chances there. I honestly think it would have been close to 50/50 in 2019 and 2022 had Rafa gotten to the final. So even with Novak at WIM, I never thought that he would be a major favorite against Rafa like he would be at AO for example. Thus imo, either Rafa survives the first two matches, reaches a good level and has a good shot of winning WIM, OR his level is not there and he loses early.

Secondly, we must not forget Rafa’s recent injury history. His chances of being injured go up every time he switches to a surface which is not clay. I think the next non-minor injury means retirement. So this is really not a risk worth taking.

Thirdly, Rafa’s chances of winning OG are higher than him winning WIM because OG gets played at RG. It’s not worth comprising a shot at a major success, for a lesser shot at another major succes. Although honestly as a fan, a win at WIM would be worth the most to me, gold at OG will come very close to the feeling of winning a slam. I remember my happiness for Rafa winning gold at doubles in 2016 and my sadness when he lost to Delpo in the semi’s in the singles. I only have such feelings at majors really. In short, OG is big enough for me to not take a shot at WIM, even when the grass field is as dire as it can get.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
If Carlos is planning on playing singles, will he want to play doubles as well? That’s my biggest question mark over them playing doubles together, much as I would love to see it.
Carlos would be pretty stupid to play in Hamburg TBH.
 

Cupcake

Hall of Fame
I think he would. I think he might play better on grass with quick points and his experience .
If the Olympics were not so close, and on clay, I suspect Rafa would have played W. But as he himself said after losing at RG, right now the switching of surfaces is not smart for him.

While he may play singles at the Olympics, I think his main goal there is to play doubles with Alcaraz. A real passing of the torch, especially if they were to win.
 

Apun94

Hall of Fame
This match along with MC 03 vs Costa is one of about thousand different reasons why I roll my eyes at anyone who thinks RAFA couldn’t have been as dominant in the 90’s CC field. He beat a former and then at the time current RG champion as a 16 year old child.
Lol, he dominated peak Djokovic and peak Federer on clay, while being pushed to 5 sets only once against them. He would have ABSOLUTELY crushed inferior clay courters (inferior to peak djokovic for eg, like Guga or Muster) of the 1990s. Dude was beating a reigning FO champ, and another former world no1 and former FO champ at 16yrs age.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Lol, he dominated peak Djokovic and peak Federer on clay, while being pushed to 5 sets only once against them. He would have ABSOLUTELY crushed inferior clay courters (inferior to peak djokovic for eg, like Guga or Muster) of the 1990s. Dude was beating a reigning FO champ, and another former world no1 and former FO champ at 16yrs age.
Nadal on clay is one of the singular most dominant forces in all of sports. There should be no debate around him of any kind.

Sampras, Federer, Djokovic, Borg, there will always be debates surrounding these guys. But Nadal on clay should be absolute.
 
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