Nadal v Murray on Grass Who is better?

[Pantera]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h given they are tied in titles, so by that logic one would expect Nadal 3-0 Murray at SW19 to put Nadal ahead.

However, Murray got Olympic Gold on grass, and for me (and Tsitisipas), OG is the pinnacle of sport. Certainly Murray's OG wipes out the 0-3 h2h stat.

Given Murray has 5 Queens to Nadal's 1 (Nadal usually doesn't turn up, but one has to be in it to win it so to speak), I have Murray ahead of my Rafa on grass.

Be interesting to see if the sensible members on here put Murray ahead on grass as well.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h

How many USO finals and semi-finals did Nadal make compared to Djole?! How many matches did he win? How many top players did he defeat? But off course we will be holding out to that 2-1 in his favor as the only decisive tie-breaker...LOL

 

[Pantera]

How many USO finals and semi-finals did Nadal make compared to Djole?! How many matches did he win? How many top players did he defeat? But off course we will be holding out to that 2-1 in his favor as the only decisive tie-breaker...LOL

I really don't think having more runners up trophies defines who is best. As for who did Nadal beat...Djokovic twice and Del potro on way to all his titles, and past decade those two along with Nadal have probably been the best players in New York!!

 

[RS]

2007/2008/2010 Nadal beats any Murray IMO for peak. Murray more consistent and plays tune ups at Queens and has 5 titles to Nadal having one. Nadal leads the H2H 3-0 and has more finals and the same amount of titles and Murray has OG and a higher winning percentage. It’s darn close though.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

I really don't think having more runners up trophies defines who is best. As for who did Nadal beat...Djokovic twice and Del potro on way to all his titles, and past decade those two along with Nadal have probably been the best players in New York!!

5 additional Runner-Up Trophies -> miniscule advantage of 2-1 in one's favor...case closed!

 

[Pantera]

5 additional Runner-Up Trophies -> miniscule advantage of 2-1 in one's favor...case closed!

Can guarantee Djokovic will disagree with you...I mean look at it this way. If you and me were rivals, id revel in a better h2h and the fact you had a losing record in finals. Guess it depends on persepctive

 

[Towny]

Murray has the better grass career overall. Nadal has the higher grass peak and has the better Wimbledon career overall.

 

[Breakpointerer]

"My Rafa"???

 

[Djokodalerer31]

Can guarantee Djokovic will disagree with you...I mean look at it this way. If you and me were rivals, id revel in a better h2h and the fact you had a losing record in finals. Guess it depends on persepctive

This is not an advantage that warrants conclusion, that just because i was worse twice in our three meetings that i am ultimately worse player! That's ridiculous! First of all Nadal and Djokovic didn't contest another grand slam match (Let alone slam final!) at the USO since 2013! (I don't think i need to remind you how many things changed since then...), second in one of his 2 defeats to Rafa he played still having "breathing" issues before his famous 2011 turn-around season! 2010 was his worst year of them all and he still reached finals, where he faced an opponent in far superior shape (during that time!) than himself! And third Djokovic unlike Nadal was consistent as hell in NYC never failing to reach semi-final for 10 consecutive years, and only in 3 of those occassions he didn't advance in the final! Furthermore while he skipped 2017 entirely, statistically he is still to this day on that crazy streak of at least 11 semi-finals made ever since! So who is better US Open champion again??...While Nadal was still a baby and was still figuring out his hard-court game Djokovic was already contesting multiple consectuvie matches against Federer leading up to 2010!...neither in 2007, 2008 nor in 2009 did Nadal advance anywhere AS far! Better USO player? I don't think so...

 

[Red Rick]

The Olympic champ of London

 

[TripleATeam]

I really don't think having more runners up trophies defines who is best. As for who did Nadal beat...Djokovic twice and Del potro on way to all his titles, and past decade those two along with Nadal have probably been the best players in New York!!

Well, you can put it this way. Would you rather have a record of 3 wins, 1 final, 3 SF, 1 QF, and 2 R4 in your last 10 editions of the slam or 3 wins, 4 finals, 3 SF?

Djokovic hasn't lost before the semifinals of the US Open in 13 years. On the other hand, Nadal has had a few good runs at the US Open. The difference is pretty large, despite the surprising lack of titles from Djokovic.

 

[Djokodalerer31]

Well, you can put it this way. Would you rather have a record of 3 wins, 1 final, 3 SF, 1 QF, and 2 R4 in your last 10 editions of the slam or 3 wins, 4 finals, 3 SF?

Djokovic hasn't lost before the semifinals of the US Open in 13 years.

LOL Literally all Novak has to do is to win another USO title (prefferably this season!) over Nadal and preffarably by beating him in the final! Haha And all this ridiculous nonsense, that he is (Nadal off course!) better USO champ will be silenced! Novak is better than Rafa EVERYWHERE, but at at RG!...That is a trade-off for him having so one-sided h2h against Djole at RG over the course of their respective careers to balanced it off!

 

[icedevil0289]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h given they are tied in titles, so by that logic one would expect Nadal 3-0 Murray at SW19 to put Nadal ahead.

However, Murray got Olympic Gold on grass, and for me (and Tsitisipas), OG is the pinnacle of sport. Certainly Murray's OG wipes out the 0-3 h2h stat.

Given Murray has 5 Queens to Nadal's 1 (Nadal usually doesn't turn up, but one has to be in it to win it so to speak), I have Murray ahead of my Rafa on grass.

Be interesting to see if the sensible members on here put Murray ahead on grass as well.

lol

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[Heuristic]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h given they are tied in titles, so by that logic one would expect Nadal 3-0 Murray at SW19 to put Nadal ahead.

However, Murray got Olympic Gold on grass, and for me (and Tsitisipas), OG is the pinnacle of sport. Certainly Murray's OG wipes out the 0-3 h2h stat.

Given Murray has 5 Queens to Nadal's 1 (Nadal usually doesn't turn up, but one has to be in it to win it so to speak), I have Murray ahead of my Rafa on grass.

Be interesting to see if the sensible members on here put Murray ahead on grass as well.

Olympic Gold is worth more than a grand slam????

 

[Pantera]

LOL Literally all Novak has to do is to win another USO title (prefferably this season!) over Nadal and preffarably by beating him in the final! Haha And all this ridiculous nonsense, that he is (Nadal off course!) better USO champ will be silenced! Novak is better than Rafa EVERYWHERE, but at at RG!...That is a trade-off for him having so one-sided h2h against Djole at RG over the course of their respective careers to balanced it off!

Lol...talk about stating the obvious. If Nadal beats Djokovic in the final same applies really.

 

[Pantera]

LOL Literally all Novak has to do is to win another USO title (prefferably this season!) over Nadal and preffarably by beating him in the final! Haha And all this ridiculous nonsense, that he is (Nadal off course!) better USO champ will be silenced! Novak is better than Rafa EVERYWHERE, but at at RG!...That is a trade-off for him having so one-sided h2h against Djole at RG over the course of their respective careers to balanced it off!

As of today though it is Nadal 2-1 Nole.

 

[Pantera]

Well, you can put it this way. Would you rather have a record of 3 wins, 1 final, 3 SF, 1 QF, and 2 R4 in your last 10 editions of the slam or 3 wins, 4 finals, 3 SF?

Djokovic hasn't lost before the semifinals of the US Open in 13 years. On the other hand, Nadal has had a few good runs at the US Open. The difference is pretty large, despite the surprising lack of titles from Djokovic.

Definitely Nadal's record without a shadow of a doubt. I hate Nadals AO record as he has losing record in finals. Becker hates being 3-4 at W. For us competitive beasts it is win or bust.

 

[jm1980]

Can guarantee Djokovic will disagree with you...I mean look at it this way. If you and me were rivals, id revel in a better h2h and the fact you had a losing record in finals. Guess it depends on persepctive

What you are telling me is that Djokovic would have been better served losing in the first round in 2010 and 2013, thereby "avoiding" two losses to Nadal and two losses in finals?

Making the finals is always better than not making the finals. I thought that much was obvious

 

[Pantera]

This is not an advantage that warrants conclusion, that just because i was worse twice in our three meetings that i am ultimately worse player! That's ridiculous! First of all Nadal and Djokovic didn't contest another grand slam match (Let alone slam final!) at the USO since 2013! (I don't think i need to remind you how many things changed since then...), second in one of his 2 defeats to Rafa he played still having "breathing" issues before his famous 2011 turn-around season! 2010 was his worst year of them all and he still reached finals, where he faced an opponent in far superior shape (during that time!) than himself! And third Djokovic unlike Nadal was consistent as hell in NYC never failing to reach semi-final for 10 consecutive years, and only in 3 of those occassions he didn't advance in the final! Furthermore while he skipped 2017 entirely, statistically he is still to this day on that crazy streak of at least 11 semi-finals made ever since! So who is better US Open champion again??...While Nadal was still a baby and was still figuring out his hard-court game Djokovic was already contesting multiple consectuvie matches against Federer leading up to 2010!...neither in 2007, 2008 nor in 2009 did Nadal advance anywhere AS far! Better USO player? I don't think so...

No exuses...a loss is a loss, lets not talk about breathing issues...or shall we state Nadal's injuries such as AO 2014...?

As of now Nadal is the best USO player..even Becker said so

 

[Pantera]

What you are telling me is that Djokovic would have been better served losing in the first round in 2010 and 2013, thereby "avoiding" two losses to Nadal and two losses in finals?

Making the finals is always better than not making the finals. I thought that much was obvious

Lol..this is the rhetoric of Federer fans. Sorry, losing is losing period. a player loses in 1R to the winner is same as guy losing in final to the winner. Nobody remembers who lost.

 

[jm1980]

Lol..this is the rhetoric of Federer fans. Sorry, losing is losing period. a player loses in 1R to the winner is same as guy losing in final to the winner. Nobody remembers who lost.

Well, except according to your logic losing in the 1R is better than losing in the final, because of H2H and "bad" record in finals

 

[Pantera]

Well, except according to your logic losing in the 1R is better than losing in the final, because of H2H and "bad" record in finals

I am yet to see anyone in any sport being defined by their runner up spots....

 

[TripleATeam]

Lol..this is the rhetoric of Federer fans. Sorry, losing is losing period. a player loses in 1R to the winner is same as guy losing in final to the winner. Nobody remembers who lost.

They made a lot of fuss for passing 100 match wins for Federer at Wimbledon, didn't they? Plenty of those came from final runs.

The argument that a final = R1 loss applauds streaky players like Stan. Hell, it boosts Sampras beyond what he actually achieved. Some put Sampras above Federer (when they both had 7 at Wimbledon) just because Sampras never lost a final. The only thing they forget to mention is that while Sampras didn't lose a final, he did lose prior rounds.

There is less shame in losing to the eventual champion (especially in the final) than losing to a loser.

 

[TripleATeam]

Definitely Nadal's record without a shadow of a doubt. I hate Nadals AO record as he has losing record in finals. Becker hates being 3-4 at W. For us competitive beasts it is win or bust.

I get where you're coming from. I also hate Djokovic's US Open record because I know he's good enough to have converted a few more of those finals. I also understand the "win or bust" rhetoric. But that isn't the question. It's "win 6 times then bust or win 2 times then bust". Which would you rather? As a competitive guy myself, I would choose the former.

I am curious, though, so please sate my curiosity. Would you rather Nadal lost in the US Open Round 1 every year except 2010, 2013, and 2017 - beating Djokovic every time, or would you rather Nadal lose in the final of the US Open every year except for 2010, 2013, and 2017 (still wins those) - where he encounters Djokovic 3 times and loses all 3?

I know what I would pick if the roles are reversed.

 

[jm1980]

I am yet to see anyone in any sport being defined by their runner up spots....

So... you do think losing in the 1R is better than losing in the final?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Nadal has our Muzziah's number.

Hello, Andeee. Thank you for another emotional match today. A pleasure to share the court with you once more.

Honey, leave the light on for me.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Up until last year I gave Murray the slight edge but with Nadal redeeming himself at the last two editions of Wimbledon I'd probably give him the edge now. It is close though.

 

[Mainad]

Up until last year I gave Murray the slight edge but with Nadal redeeming himself at the last two editions of Wimbledon I'd probably give him the edge now. It is close though.

It so helps when you haven't suffered a career-threatening injury, doesn't it?

 

[MeatTornado]

It so helps when you haven't suffered a career-threatening injury, doesn't it?

Yeah, cause Rafa's had a walk in the park, physically.

 

[JoelSandwich]

Nadal in 2007, 2008 and 2010 demolishes any version of Murray on grass

 

[vaillancourt]

For me grass is all about Wimbledon. There arent even any Masters or semi big tournaments on grass and no real grass season. So definitely Nadal due to his superior Wimbledon record, even though both have 2 titles. 2 more finals, same number of semis, owns Murray at Wimbledon, and more epic maches and wins at Wimbledon. Even just 2 more Wimbledon finals is worth more for me than an Olympic gold on grass and some tiny tournaments.

 

[vaillancourt]

It so helps when you haven't suffered a career-threatening injury, doesn't it?

Nadal is basically the most injury proned big named player of the last 15 years not named Del Potro who is way above everyone else. If this was a thread comparing Murray to Djokovic or Federer in something you would have a point about injuries.

 

[MajesticMoose]

 

[N01E]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h given they are tied in titles, so by that logic one would expect Nadal 3-0 Murray at SW19 to put Nadal ahead.

However, Murray got Olympic Gold on grass, and for me (and Tsitisipas), OG is the pinnacle of sport. Certainly Murray's OG wipes out the 0-3 h2h stat.

Given Murray has 5 Queens to Nadal's 1 (Nadal usually doesn't turn up, but one has to be in it to win it so to speak), I have Murray ahead of my Rafa on grass.

Be interesting to see if the sensible members on here put Murray ahead on grass as well.

You do realise you're saying that nadal is the superior player due to losing to Delpo, right?

 

[vaillancourt]

I have often placed Nadal ahead of Djokovic at USO by virtue of the better h2h given they are tied in titles, so by that logic one would expect Nadal 3-0 Murray at SW19 to put Nadal ahead.

However, Murray got Olympic Gold on grass, and for me (and Tsitisipas), OG is the pinnacle of sport. Certainly Murray's OG wipes out the 0-3 h2h stat.

Given Murray has 5 Queens to Nadal's 1 (Nadal usually doesn't turn up, but one has to be in it to win it so to speak), I have Murray ahead of my Rafa on grass.

Be interesting to see if the sensible members on here put Murray ahead on grass as well.

I love how you dont even mention Nadal having 5 Wimbledon finals to only 3 for Murray. That is certainly more important than some extra Queens titles, an event nobody will even know the names of the winners of years from now.

You do realise you're saying that nadal is the superior player due to losing to Delpo, right?

Yes that and not even mentioning Nadal having 2 more Wimbledon finals than Murray, and beating a prime Federer at Wimbledon. OP logic sucks ass all around. And yes Djokovic would have wrecked Nadal at the U.S Open and tied their "head to head" if had not lost to Del Potro, and Djokovic has a ton more finals there now. To put Nadal over Djokovic at the Open is laughable at this point. Although apparently to Pantera making slam finals are less important than the overrated head to head (although Murray being 0-3 vs Nadal at Wimbledon is empathic enough to mean something I guess, but even that shouldnt be exagerrated) and tiny tournaments like queens and Washington.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Yeah, cause Rafa's had a walk in the park, physically.

Unironically he has.

 

[Mainad]

Yeah, cause Rafa's had a walk in the park, physically.

By comparison, yes. After all, none of his injuries have yet stopped him from winning more Slams.

 

[Mainad]

Nadal is basically the most injury proned big named player of the last 15 years not named Del Potro who is way above everyone else. If this was a thread comparing Murray to Djokovic or Federer in something you would have a point about injuries.

When Murray is physically fit enough to compete for Slams again I might concede your point. Until then, no comparison as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ibbi]

Got to give it to Murray overall. Less for the Olympic title, more for the amount of times he's won Queens in addition to the couple of Wimbledon titles. Hell, until Novak won that 4th Wimbledon last year I might have taken Sir Andy over him too.

Obviously head to head he's not in Rafa's league in terms of peak level, but his day in day out consistency on the surface for like a decade now, and his multiple grass court titles at different tournaments goes a long way for me, certainly compared to Nadal's black hole years where he struggled to win matches on the surface.

 

[Mainad]

Got to give it to Murray overall. Less for the Olympic title, more for the amount of times he's won Queens in addition to the couple of Wimbledon titles. Hell, until Novak won that 4th Wimbledon last year I might have taken Sir Andy over him too.

You can't diminish the importance of the Olympic title because he won it on Centre Court, Wimbledon, the Holy Grail of Grass, by beating in succession 2 Wimbledon champions including the Wimbledon and Grass GOAT who had beaten him in the final there just a few weeks earlier.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

It is Nadal clearly. More finals and 3-0 record. Queens titles are not worth a lot, OG I value quite high, though but this was an once in a lifetime tournament. At least in the course of their careers there will not be any more Olympic editions played on grass so it is not that there were many chances.

 

[Mainad]

It is Nadal clearly. More finals and 3-0 record. Queens titles are not worth a lot, OG I value quite high, though but this was an once in a lifetime tournament. At least in the course of their careers there will not be any more Olympic editions played on grass so it is not that there were many chances.

All the more reason why it is important to take the chance whenever it comes up.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

All the more reason why it is important to take the chance whenever it comes up.

True but it does not give us a real sample size. Same with people calling Federer blue clay GOAT based on one single tournament. Had there been Olympic tennis tournament played on grass every year who knows who would have the most titles.

 

[MeatTornado]

By comparison, yes. After all, none of his injuries have yet stopped him from winning more Slams.

Just because he came back in his 30s from his wrist and knee injuries to win more slams doesn't mean his injuries didn't stop him from winning more.

That'd be like saying Andy's back surgery didn't cost him slams because he still recovered and won Wimbledon in 2016.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Just because he came back in his 30s from his wrist and knee injuries to win more slams doesn't mean his injuries didn't stop him from winning more.

That'd be like saying Andy's back surgery didn't cost him slams because he still recovered and won Wimbledon in 2016.

RAFA = boy who cried for wolf

 

[The Blond Blur]

No poll I'll go with Rafa more Wimby finals beat prime Fed, Murray, and Joker there.

 

[vaillancourt]

When Murray is physically fit enough to compete for Slams again I might concede your point. Until then, no comparison as far as I'm concerned.

Murray had planned to retire this year previously. If he returns to play at all it is only because he was injured in fact.

If you are going to be injured it is much better when you are really old, into your 30s, and near the end of your career, then in your prime like Nadal and Del Potro (moreso Del Potro) often were. The only time Murray experienced that was his back injury late 2013.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Just because he came back in his 30s from his wrist and knee injuries to win more slams doesn't mean his injuries didn't stop him from winning more.

That'd be like saying Andy's back surgery didn't cost him slams because he still recovered and won Wimbledon in 2016.

Which Majors did he "lose" due to injuries?

 

[Mainad]

Murray had planned to retire this year previously. If he returns to play at all it is only because he was injured in fact.

He didn't plan to retire, he thought he would have no choice because he didn't think he could recover from his back injury. Big difference.

If you are going to be injured it is much better when you are really old, into your 30s, and near the end of your career, then in your prime like Nadal and Del Potro (moreso Del Potro) often were. The only time Murray experienced that was his back injury late 2013.

None of Nadal's injuries prevented him from staying a top player and being in contention to win Slams. That may not be the case for Del Potro and, presently, Murray.