Nadal v Thiem final would be farcical

Amritia

Professional
Agree 100%. I just think it’s unfortunate that people hide it to hide their disappointment.
I can only speak for myself here but I was firmly on the ABN train this WTF and will be until he retires. And it’s because it’s the one thing that tops off Nadal’s career once and for all. I have no problem admitting that.

I just wish the Nadal fans on the opposite side of the argument could do the same. It shouldn’t really be seen as a terrible thing that you hate to see your favourite player lose at an important tournament.
I’ve always admitted WTF is an important tournament.
It’s not as nearly as important as Slams but way more important than any Masters 1000.

I think for Rafa, his CV has enough wins from a variety of places that means one gap isn’t much of a big deal. Olympics Singles is a good one, as it’s only played once every 4 years.

Imo if Nadal wins another event that helps his CV, I hope it’s the USO.
Some people say AO, but I don’t see the big significance of having 2 slams at every event. Once you’ve won all Slams, is it really a big deal?
USO would be good as it would mean he’s joint top record USO open era wins.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I’ve always admitted WTF is an important tournament.
It’s not as nearly as important as Slams but way more important than any Masters 1000.

I think for Rafa, his CV has enough wins from a variety of places that means one gap isn’t much of a big deal. Olympics Singles is a good one, as it’s only played once every 4 years.

Imo if Nadal wins another event that helps his CV, I hope it’s the USO.
Some people say AO, but I don’t see the big significance of having 2 slams at every event. Once you’ve won all Slams, is it really a big deal?
USO would be good as it would mean he’s joint top record USO open era wins.
You and I are very much aligned in our beliefs then. Right down to Nadal winning another USO being more significant for him in the long run.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
You and I are very much aligned in our beliefs then. Right down to Nadal winning another USO being more significant for him in the long run.
My issue with wtf is the format. At least tomorrow we have a final that means something. I cannot stand the final between two players who played RR.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Nonsense lol. He was just playing awful stuff as he is mediocre in those conditions so he tried something different.
Not a shocker unlike Djokovic loss.
A shocker like Djokovic's loss? Djokovic hasn't won this event in 5 years and he doesn't need to. He has 5 of them and has the consecutive record for winning 4 in a row. I don't know why you are bringing up Djokovic in an argument about WTF because it's an argument you will surely lose.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
A shocker like Djokovic's loss? Djokovic hasn't won this event in 5 years and he doesn't need to. He has 5 of them and has the consecutive record for winning 4 in a row. I don't know why you are bringing up Djokovic in an argument about WTF because it's an argument you will surely lose.
Djokovic needed this event way more than Nadal.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Seriously you like indoor tennis? Forget who you support. Just genuinely interested as to what you like about indoor tennis. Not criticising just genuinely interested.
You’re acting like someone liking indoor tennis is a shocking thing. Many people like indoor tennis. It’s not all serve botting. I also like tennis played on clay and grass and outdoor HC too. I just wish someone would beat Nadal at RG so it wasn’t such a foregone conclusion every year.
 

Amritia

Professional
Now that you mention it, I did tape it and watch it more than once. I enjoyed Nadal’s win that day, and respected his level of play.
Nice. Weird how @FO he played poorly all tournament but stepped it up for the SF, while @o2 he played well during the week but dipped his level (esp first serve percentage) for SF. Previous record clearly affecting mentality.

Will be good to have Roger back for AO. Hopefully fit and healthy. If he has fully recovered, 2021 may actually be a 'strong era' type season. Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Thiem, Medvedev. If most of them are on form, you could have an absolute cracker of a Grand Slam.
 

Amritia

Professional
Exactly, the scheduling favored him a lot more than Med, since Med had to play yesterday also. He played a couple of two set matches, then a three set with Tsitisi, that is really nothing. It is without a doubt his age that caused this massive drop in his physical level, he had bad footwork at the start which I pointed out, he adjusted and he got better, but then as he got tired, he could not move his feet so he started to net rush. It was over at that point.
One question though, if it was his age, how did he manage to win the 3rd set tiebreak against Schwartzmann? That match was longer and more gruelling than this one.
I'm not sure if it was endurance, or just bad strategy. He said in post match conference that he wasn't injured which is good news.
He certainly did employ bizarre tactics with the overuse of net approaches. He sliced too much all match. 1st serve percentage was also very low throughout.
 

Keizer

Professional
Lol. You miss the point. 2020 turned out perfect for Nadal. Djokovic needed WTF more than ever before. His aura is fading badly. Unless of course he has given up eclipsing Nadal and Federer?
Nobody (him included) thinks additional WTFs are going to add much to his legacy. Equaling Fed on WTF count means nothing if he doesn't win more slams.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Nobody (him included) thinks additional WTFs are going to add much to his legacy. Equaling Fed on WTF count means nothing if he doesn't win more slams.
Agreed. However on this board some of his more blinkered fans have been claiming the WTF is the GOAT determinant. Not equalling Federer obviously presents a quandry now. They have sort of run themselves into a cul de sac.
 

Keizer

Professional
Agreed. However on this board some of his more blinkered fans have been claiming the WTF is the GOAT determinant. Not equalling Federer obviously presents a quandry now. They have sort of run themselves into a cul de sac.
It's not a GOAT determinant if you've won 5. Not having won a single one is a different story. I don't know that it's a GOAT determinant, but Nadal's winning this WTF would've added more to his legacy than Djokovic's winning it would've added to his.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
It's not a GOAT determinant if you've won 5. Not having won a single one is a different story. I don't know that it's a GOAT determinant, but Nadal's winning this WTF would've added more to his legacy than Djokovic's winning it would've added to his.
No. A 5th USO, 2nd AO or a 3rd W or another FO will add way more to Nadals legacy. Even the players cannot remember who won the WTF in recent years. Both Nadal and Djokovic forgot Murray won it in 2016. To me that says it all.
Djokovic needed the WTF badly to re-establish some sort of aura after what has been a terrible 2020 post lockdown.
 

Keizer

Professional
No. A 5th USO, 2nd AO or a 3rd W or another FO will add way more to Nadals legacy. Even the players cannot remember who won the WTF in recent years. Both Nadal and Djokovic forgot Murray won it in 2016. To me that says it all.
Djokovic needed the WTF badly to re-establish some sort of aura after what has been a terrible 2020 post lockdown.
Why are you strawmanning -- I never said anything about slams. All I said is that WTF is a box to check. Obviously if he broke the tie it would add more to his legacy.

I couldn't care less about Nadal or Djokovic winning slams. I'd rather neither of them, nor Federer, won any more slams. I was glad for today's results.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
No. A 5th USO, 2nd AO or a 3rd W or another FO will add way more to Nadals legacy. Even the players cannot remember who won the WTF in recent years. Both Nadal and Djokovic forgot Murray won it in 2016. To me that says it all.
Djokovic needed the WTF badly to re-establish some sort of aura after what has been a terrible 2020 post lockdown.
Of course a slam win means more. Everyone knows that. But pretending like this was more important for Djokovic who has 5 WTF titles vs Nadal who has 0 is laughable.

And obviously the WTF isn’t a GOAT determinant. Nadal doesn’t need it if he wins the slam race which is likely, but it is a mark against him on his career. A mark he could’ve gotten rid of with no Djokovic to stop him, but he didn’t, and the person most unhappy about it is Nadal himself. I can guarantee you that regardless of what he might say in a book.
 
Last edited:

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Why are you strawmanning -- I never said anything about slams. All I said is that WTF is a box to check. Obviously if he broke the tie it would add more to his legacy.

I couldn't care less about Nadal or Djokovic winning slams. I'd rather neither of them, nor Federer, won any more slams. I was glad for today's results.
Last 4 years the roll of honour has been Murray Dimitrov Zverev and Tsitispas. The total number of slams won between them post 2016 is 0.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Of course a slam win means more. Everyone knows that. But pretending like this was more important for Djokovic who has 5 WTF titles vs Nadal who has 0 is laughable.
You miss the point. Djokovic was mouthing off about going unbeaten all season. He was unlucky in NY. He got humiliated in Paris. He absolutely had to win WTF to restore that fear factor. But he got schooled by medvedev and lost to a poorly playing Thiem. On his best surface indoors.
For Nadal it is his worse conditions. Yes it is disappointing for him to lose but irrelevant moving forward as his aura is still there.
I am basing all this on the basis Djokovic still believes he can get the most Majors. If not then yes you are right.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
You miss the point. Djokovic was mouthing off about going unbeaten all season. He was unlucky in NY. He got humiliated in Paris. He absolutely had to win WTF to restore that fear factor. But he got schooled by medvedev and lost to a poorly playing Thiem. On his best surface indoors.
For Nadal it is his worse conditions. Yes it is disappointing for him to lose but irrelevant moving forward as his aura is still there.
I am basing all this on the basis Djokovic still believes he can get the most Majors. If not then yes you are right.
Obviously Djokovic still believes he can win the slam race. It’s called having belief in yourself. A common thing for an elite athlete of Djokovic’s caliber.

And unless I missed something I wouldn’t say he mouthed off all year about going unbeaten. His fanboys yes, but he never said much. He was asked what, one question on it and gave a PC answer.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Obviously Djokovic still believes he can win the slam race. It’s called having belief in yourself. A common thing for an elite athlete of Djokovic’s caliber.

And unless I missed something I wouldn’t say he mouthed off all year about going unbeaten. His fanboys yes, but he never said much. He was asked what, one question on it and gave a PC answer.
I am sure he mentioned going unbeaten all year as a goal. If i am mistaken i take it back. As for his fanboys, to be fair on here there are only 2, their opinions are worthless.
I only judge Djokovic off his comments.
 

Swingmaster

Professional
Knowing how OCD Nadal is, it must bug him considerably that he hasn’t won a WTF. To retire without one would be an incredibly hard pill for him to swallow.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Knowing how OCD Nadal is, it must bug him considerably that he hasn’t won a WTF. To retire without one would be an incredibly hard pill for him to swallow.
He wont care that much. If he did he would not have skipped it so many times.
He is an average indoor player. A man has got to know his limitations. Would be nice to win but i am certain 20 majors compensates and an OG
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I am sure he mentioned going unbeaten all year as a goal. If i am mistaken i take it back. As for his fanboys, to be fair on here there are only 2, their opinions are worthless.
I only judge Djokovic off his comments.
Well if he mentioned it as a goal it only makes sense. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate goal of any tennis player after all?
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Well if he mentioned it as a goal it only makes sense. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate goal of any tennis player after all?
Yes of course but none actually openly state it as a goal.
I am mindful of course that djokovic is often misquoted so if i am wrong i apologise.
Anyway should be a good match tomorrow. Hope Thiem wins. Like a bit of topspin
 

Swingmaster

Professional
He wont care that much. If he did he would not have skipped it so many times.
He is an average indoor player. A man has got to know his limitations. Would be nice to win but i am certain 20 majors compensates and an OG
But knowing how competitive that guy is, a WTF has to be important. Imagine if Federer didn’t have a French Open on his resume. That would eat at him forever, even though clay isn’t his best surface. Grand slams are more important than WTFs, but still, it sucks. Im not a Nadal die hard, but I wanted this one for him. Had it on his serve, too!! Sheesh. But oh well. Maybe next year. It’s good to have things to overcome. He may not be good indoors, but he’s good enough to win one.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
But knowing how competitive that guy is, a WTF has to be important. Imagine if Federer didn’t have a French Open on his resume. That would eat at him forever, even though clay isn’t his best surface. Grand slams are more important than WTFs, but still, it sucks. Im not a Nadal die hard, but I wanted this one for him. Had it on his serve, too!! Sheesh. But oh well. Maybe next year.
Medvedev played a great return game. Plus Nadal serve is a liability anyway indoors.
Federer has never beaten Nadal at RG or won an OG. I suspect those two facts outweigh Nadal not winning WTF albeit for both they will be very minor irritations of little note.
If you are looking for major frustrations then look at Djokovic. 20-20-17 was not how it was supposed to be at the end of 2020.
 

Swingmaster

Professional
Medvedev played a great return game. Plus Nadal serve is a liability anyway indoors.
Federer has never beaten Nadal at RG or won an OG. I suspect those two facts outweigh Nadal not winning WTF albeit for both they will be very minor irritations of little note.
If you are looking for major frustrations then look at Djokovic. 20-20-17 was not how it was supposed to be at the end of 2020.
True, they will all have some “what might’ve beens.” Hopefully they can just forget about all the stupid numbers and enjoy the memories. Who gives a crap about a few bad bounces.
 
Top