Nadal vs. Alcaraz. Who possesses a superior peak on hard courts?

Who posesses a superior peak level on hard?

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Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
In view of the fact that almost 22 years old Alcaraz (with 4 Slams at his back) lost to almost 38 years old Novak in 4 at the AO, while 25 years old Nadal pushed 24 years old Novak to 5 sets at the AO 2012, does it mean Nadal possesses a superior peak level on hard?

It's also woth mentioning that Alcaraz has never beaten Novak on hard, in spite of always having faced a 36+ version of the Serbian, while Rafa beat twice a Novak in his 20s at the USO.

Some candid questions:

Is Novak playing better at age 37 and a half than in 2013 when Nadal beat him in Canada and the USO?

Is Alcaraz extremely away from his peak, considering he has already won 4 Slams and has been #1 and Year-End #1?

Why did Alcaraz lose against an injured in the rib and 35 and a half years old Nadal at Indian Wells 2022?

 
NoleFam said:
Too early to tell. Alcaraz in just 21 and has done more on hardcourt than Nadal did at that age.
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Well the question asked about peak level, not necessarily about success. I believe Alcaraz has been better on HCs overall at their respective ages but I think Nadal hit a top level in Indian Wells 2007 that hasn’t been matched by Alcaraz in any hard court tournament he’s played.
 
Right now Raz is around where Ned from 06-08 was on HC, perfectly capable of occasionally producing a great Bo3 peak level on outdoor HC but not in a position to do it really in Bo5
 
Alcaraz is levels above Nadal in the same age.

Btw. Nadal from 2009 - 2015 would have incredible problems with older Djokovic with improved serve and agressive groundstrokes and improved net game.... Not only Australian Open, but also on another hard courts tournaments.

This is just a matter of years when Carlos becomes the best Spanish Universal tennis player of all times.
 
Third Serve said:
Well the question asked about peak level, not necessarily about success. I believe Alcaraz has been better on HCs overall at their respective ages but I think Nadal hit a top level in Indian Wells 2007 that hasn’t been matched by Alcaraz in any hard court tournament he’s played.
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It's still too early to talk about peak level as well. Nadal didn't hit his peak on hardcourt until 22.
 
Let's not joke, Nadal from 2009 to 2022 with the exception of the anonymous seasons of 2015 and 2016, on hard had acquired a level that Alcaraz has never reached yet.

So far Alcaraz on hard boasts a weakened slam like the 2022 US Open, 3 masters 1000 of which two won on the slowest hard surface on the circuit, the clayhard of Indian Wells.
 
Oleksandr.Usyk said:
Alcaraz is levels above Nadal in the same age.

Btw. Nadal from 2009 - 2015 would have incredible problems with older Djokovic with improved serve and agressive groundstrokes and improved net game.... Not only Australian Open, but also on another hard courts tournaments.

This is just a matter of years when Carlos becomes the best Spanish Universal tennis player of all times.
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Nope. Nadal at the AO 2008 (21 and a half) displayed substantially higher level than Alcaraz at the AO 2025 (21 years and a half).

Nadal only lost to a Tsonga who was very dangerous those days, the same Tsonga who beat Novak at the AO 2010 and Federer at Wimbledon and Roland-Garros.

"Would have" doesn't exist, but since you insist on using it, 2012 AO Nadal would've murdered this Novak and that wasn't even his best version as his AO 2009 version is prefered by many.
 
Last edited:
Sport said:
Nope. Nadal at the AO 2008 (21 and a half) displayed substantially higher level than Alcaraz at the AO 2925 (21 years and a half).

Nadal only lost to a Tsonga who was very dangerous those days, the same Tsonga who beat Novak at the AO 2010 and Federer at Wimbledon and Roland-Garros.

"Would have" doesn't exist.
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How? He was given worst beating any top player has ever been given.

Worst
 
Sport said:
In view of the fact that almost 22 years old Alcaraz (with 4 Slams at his back) lost to almost 38 years old Novak in 4 at the AO, while 25 years old Nadal pushed 24 years old Novak to 5 sets at the AO 2012, does it mean Nadal possesses a superior peak level on hard?

It's also woth mentioning that Alcaraz has never beaten Novak on hard, in spite of always having faced a 36+ version of the Serbian, while Rafa beat twice a Novak in his 20s at the USO.

Some candid questions:

Is Novak playing better at age 37 and a half than in 2013 when Nadal beat him in Canada and the USO?

Is Alcaraz extremely away from his peak, considering he has already won 4 Slams and has been #1 and Year-End #1?

Why did Alcaraz lose against an injured in the rib and 35 and a half years old Nadal at Indian Wells 2022?

Click to expand...
Nadal hadnt won a HC slam at 21 i dont think so i think we have to wait and see. Clearly at the same age it was the weakest surface for both.
 
Sport said:
Nope. Nadal at the AO 2008 (21 and a half) displayed substantially higher level than Alcaraz at the AO 2925 (21 years and a half).

Nadal only lost to a Tsonga who was very dangerous those days, the same Tsonga who beat Novak at the AO 2010 and Federer at Wimbledon and Roland-Garros.

"Would have" doesn't exist.
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The same Tsonga who beated pre glutein free Djokovic in one of his worst seasons? Nope. Alcaraz would beat AO 2008 Nadal really badly, in straight sets. Nostalgy would not rescue Rafa.
 
Gen Z is way way overrated. They are bums compared to Gen Y and Gen X players and continue to prove it by losing to players 15 years their senior. This should never happen in any sport, much less a sport were the average retirement age is 32.
 
Nadal easy. don’t think Carlos will ever come close to mirroring a 2009 AO or 2010’ US open performance. Since he can’t even beat Djoker on social security 4 slam wins into his career
 
Lleytonstation said:
Rafa, and it isnt even remotely close. Rafa is better on every surface.

Carlos only comes close on grass.
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Rafa was not quite top player whenever conditions were not really slow. on very slow conditions he was the king. his game was based on his ability to run down every ball and return almost any serve, and if conditions (speed of court but also of the ball) didn't allow that...he was vulnerable

as for Carlito, he's versatile but also not as constant, his form has ups and downs across the season
 
zalive said:
Rafa was not quite top player whenever conditions were not really slow. on very slow conditions he was the king. his game was based on his ability to run down every ball and return almost any serve, and if conditions (speed of court but also of the ball) didn't allow that...he was vulnerable
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Yes, but Carlos is not good on fast HC either.
 
Third Serve said:
For sure, but we can definitely make comparisons between these players at equivalent stages of their careers.
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Nadal at the same age got to his first HC SF but was thrashed hard by Tsonga.
Alcaraz lost to AO GOAT Djokovic but the match was way more competitive than Nadal-Tsonga SF. I'd say they are about the same...
 
Gonzo_style said:
Nadal at the same age got to his first HC SF but was thrashed hard by Tsonga.
Alcaraz lost to AO GOAT Djokovic but the match was way more competitive than Nadal-Tsonga SF. I'd say they are about the same...
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lol, Tsonga was not 38, and Carlos did just lose on HC slam to Van Diesel lol
 
Lleytonstation said:
Yes, but Carlos is not good on fast HC either.
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Yes, slower conditions are his forte too. but not as much as it was Rafa's forte (where he was better) and also his attacking game should be easier to adjust to fast conditions than Rafa's. we'll see in next seasons what happens
 
So far Rafa, his displays in the USOPEN have been great, even beat Djokovic twice in finals.
In Australia he has played good two, several good displays including a couple of titles and a few finals with some epic matches against Federer, Verdasco and that 2012 final against Djokovic.


But Carlos is still young and can improve.
 
there's no way 05-08 Nadal loses to a geriatric he can run circles around and who can't even really outhit him. Djokovic's isn't exactly controlling the middle of the court like Agassi these days. He'd find a way to keep enough balls between the lines and win. Don't care how many times he got beaten by big hitters (most of whom combined that with being good athletes too) in that period.

For Alcaraz to ever lose to Djokovic at this stage shows a massive lack of fundamentals and control over the game. Djokovic didn't even serve well, wasn't particularly aggressive, Alcaraz straight up got beaten in a consistency and neutral rally battle by a guy 16 years older. Never seen anything like it.
 
Let's not pretend Tsonga wouldn't have crushed Alcaraz in 3 with his 2008 performance.

At the same age Nadal because he was capable of better performances in bo3. Nadal played better Montreal 2005, Dubai 2006 and Indian Wells 2007 than Alcaraz has ever played on a hard court.

Neither are particularly good in bo5. At least Nadal was very close to besting Federer at Miami in 2005.
 
Racquet_smash said:
Let's not pretend Tsonga wouldn't have crushed Alcaraz in 3 with his 2008 performance.

At the same age Nadal because he was capable of better performances in bo3. Nadal played better Montreal 2005, Dubai 2006 and Indian Wells 2007 than Alcaraz has ever played on a hard court.

Neither are particularly good in bo5. At least Nadal was very close to besting Federer at Miami in 2005.
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Why should we not believe this..

What you said in first row is totally baseless and that in post of the guy who says untestable so irrelevant.

Dude get over yourself. Tsonga beat nadal so bad because nadal's style.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Why should we not believe this..

What you said in first row is totally baseless and that in post of the guy who says untestable so irrelevant.

Dude get over yourself. Tsonga beat nadal so bad because nadal's style.
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Tsonga was playing the match of his life, everything was working for him that day.

Alcaraz got schooled today, it wasn't even close. Getting embarassed this way by a borderline 38 years old doesn't speak of greatness to me.
 
RAFA’s performance against Fred in the infamous Miami 05 F and run to the title in IW 07 is moar impressive than anything Chuck has done on HC.Then there’s Canada 05, Dubai 06, and actually being able to win a title on indoor HC in Madrid 05. I don’t think Chuck has even made an indoor HC F.
 
Racquet_smash said:
Tsonga was playing the match of his life, everything was working for him that day.

Alcaraz got schooled today, it wasn't even close. Getting embarassed this way by a borderline 38 years old doesn't speak of greatness to me.
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Vs nadal's game.

Yes alcaraz lost today with Dominance ratio just 1.07

What schooled stop using hyperbole

Nadal was schooled. It was really shameful loss.
 
I mean, Alcaraz lost a battle of consistency to someone 16 years older than him. That is an embarrassing result by any stretch of the word. Maybe not as embarrassing as, say, Fed clowning Berrettini at 2019 Wimbledon but it’s still pretty bad.
 
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