Nadal vs. Alcaraz. Who possesses a superior peak on hard courts?

Who posesses a superior peak level on hard?

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .
Donkus_Reborn said:
Nadal only won US Open 2010 because Djokovic was yet to hit his peak, only won 2009 because Federer choked, and his last victory at AO was because Djokovic was banned and the only reason he won 2017 US Open was because he was slumping. Only reason, in fact Federer and Nadal both made the finals at AO17 was because Djokovic was slumping as well at the start of the year.

Just remember Nadal in his 3rd best season in 2008 lost to frikkin tsonga 2-3-2, and Murray at the US Open. Nadal in 2011 - his best season in terms of level of play was getting killed by Djokovic on all surfaces. 2010 Nadal only had success on hard because everyone was crap

Funny that when everyone who was capable of playing well, were playing well, Nadal was no where to be seen once the clay court season ends. He only won things on HC because every good player was slumping or injured.
Click to expand...
Lol, just lol :-D
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
Nadal only won US Open 2010 because Djokovic was yet to hit his peak, only won 2009 because Federer choked, and his last victory at AO was because Djokovic was banned and the only reason he won 2017 US Open was because he was slumping. Only reason, in fact Federer and Nadal both made the finals at AO17 was because Djokovic was slumping as well at the start of the year.

Just remember Nadal in his 3rd best season in 2008 lost to frikkin tsonga 2-3-2, and Murray at the US Open. Nadal in 2011 - his best season in terms of level of play was getting killed by Djokovic on all surfaces. 2010 Nadal only had success on hard because everyone was crap

Funny that when everyone who was capable of playing well, were playing well, Nadal was no where to be seen once the clay court season ends. He only won things on HC because every good player was slumping or injured.
Click to expand...

Wait, Ao 2012 on his favourite slam vs Nadal least favourite slam was 1 back hand away from beating peak/prime Djoker.

And leads 2-1 at the Us open. During 2010-2013, Djokers Peak/best years.

Imagine Nadal being down in any clay slam.
 
The Blond Blur said:
Lol, just lol :-D
Click to expand...

is Nadal in 2010 beating Djokovic in 2011 on any hard court? no, he couldn't even deal with Djokovic 2011 on clay lol.
2009 Federer choked, he threw the towel in during the 5th set
Nadal is never winning AO 2022 if Djokovic is allowed to play, Nadal hasn't won a set off Djokovic on hard courts for over 10 years. lol

Djokovic won the AO in 2016, eventually holding all slams after FO 2016 (something Nadal has never done), then slumped at AO17 and AO18). Federer got blitzed by Djokovic in 2016. Djokovic in 2017 was slumping, and 2018. Federer magically wins both years, and Nadal comes awfully close in 2017. Djokovic is back to his best in 2019 and no one is even getting close. Djokovic slaps up Nadal. Djokovic is denied entry in 2022 and Nadal vultures another slam.

When Djokovic was playing well at the AO and not slumping, the only guys who were threats were Nadal at 2012, Wawrinka three times, and Murray was always a consistent threat. It's funny, whenever Djokovic plays well, Federer and Nadal are either no where to be seen or losing to Djokovic. If Djokovic isn't in the draw or slumping they are contesting finals. Can't be a coincidence.

Why don't Nadal fans piddle off to the former pro player section where Nadal belongs? Please can you provide evidence how Nadal is beating Djokovic at AO 2022 despite not being able to win a set on hardcourts against Djokovic since 2013.

Also, 24 > 22
 
Third Serve said:
That guy is a troll fyi
Click to expand...

yes i'm such a troll for thinking Alcaraz at 21 is more achieved than Nadal at 21 on grass and hardcourts........

Again what do people actually disagree with about my post? Nadal beating Djokovic at AO 2022 when he hasn't won a set against him on hard since 2013? So he's gonna suddenly beat the best ever, on his best surface, on his best court, after not challenging him for 9 years at that point on hard courts? get real people, there are no friends here, he won that tournament because Djokovic wasn't allowed to play.
 
Turning Pro said:
Wait, Ao 2012 on his favourite slam vs Nadal least favourite slam was 1 back hand away from beating peak/prime Djoker.

And leads 2-1 at the Us open. During 2010-2013, Djokers Peak/best years.

Imagine Nadal being down in any clay slam.
Click to expand...

Nadal in 2011 couldn't even beat Djokovic on clay, how is Nadal 2010 beating Djokovic 2011 on hard? U on crack bro?
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
is Nadal in 2010 beating Djokovic in 2011 on any hard court? no, he couldn't even deal with Djokovic 2011 on clay lol.
2009 Federer choked, he threw the towel in during the 5th set
Nadal is never winning AO 2022 if Djokovic is allowed to play, Nadal hasn't won a set off Djokovic on hard courts for over 10 years. lol

Djokovic won the AO in 2016, eventually holding all slams after FO 2016 (something Nadal has never done), then slumped at AO17 and AO18). Federer got blitzed by Djokovic in 2016. Djokovic in 2017 was slumping, and 2018. Federer magically wins both years, and Nadal comes awfully close in 2017. Djokovic is back to his best in 2019 and no one is even getting close. Djokovic slaps up Nadal. Djokovic is denied entry in 2022 and Nadal vultures another slam.

When Djokovic was playing well at the AO and not slumping, the only guys who were threats were Nadal at 2012, Wawrinka three times, and Murray was always a consistent threat. It's funny, whenever Djokovic plays well, Federer and Nadal are either no where to be seen or losing to Djokovic. If Djokovic isn't in the draw or slumping they are contesting finals. Can't be a coincidence.

Why don't Nadal fans piddle off to the former pro player section where Nadal belongs? Please can you provide evidence how Nadal is beating Djokovic at AO 2022 despite not being able to win a set on hardcourts against Djokovic since 2013.

Also, 24 > 22
Click to expand...
TLDR 8-B
 
The Blond Blur said:
My 6 month old nephew could come up with something wittier than that 8-B
Click to expand...

It wasn't a joke. You disagreed with my premise that Nadal would not beat Djokovic if they met at AO 2022 despite not being able to win a set against him on hard since 2013.
You disagreed with my premise that Nadal in 2010 would beat Djokovic in 2011 at AO or US Open despite not even winning a set against him on clay and getting killed on other surfaces.

I honestly believe people here have mental illness.
 
jl809 said:
Lmao donkus, usyk and biotic, all the bots are turning up. Did not expect this to get so good
Click to expand...

I'm not even a bot. I would probably create a botnus account though, but you won't see me after this tournament until the FO. I go into the mist, into hibernation.
 
metsman said:
there's no way 05-08 Nadal loses to a geriatric he can run circles around and who can't even really outhit him. Djokovic's isn't exactly controlling the middle of the court like Agassi these days. He'd find a way to keep enough balls between the lines and win. Don't care how many times he got beaten by big hitters (most of whom combined that with being good athletes too) in that period.

For Alcaraz to ever lose to Djokovic at this stage shows a massive lack of fundamentals and control over the game. Djokovic didn't even serve well, wasn't particularly aggressive, Alcaraz straight up got beaten in a consistency and neutral rally battle by a guy 16 years older. Never seen anything like it.
Click to expand...
Exactly
 
Biotic said:
05-07 peak Nadal was routinely losing to Ferrers and Youzhnys of the world. On a good day.
Click to expand...

But 2005-2007 was not peak Nadal on HC, except some certain moments like Miami and Montreal 2005 and Indian Wells 2007, but they still rank below his best efforts on the surface.
 
Turning Pro said:
Nadal had a college serve in 2011. 2010 135mph servebot Nadal destroys all.

You on smack, bro?
Click to expand...

135mph isn't beating Djokovic in 2011.

Federer serves a lot better than Nadal and got absolutely killed by Djokovic at Ao
Wawrinka serves a lot harder than 135mph and whilst was a threat to Djokovic, is still 2-1 down at AO and has way more firepower from the back of the court


besides, Nadal didn't even destroy 2010 Djokovic. Djokovic in 2010 was playing without a serve, a forehand and any motivation.

Nadal could not even win a set against Djokovic in 2011 on clay, he is not troubling Djokovic in any of the slams. 2010 Nadal lost to Murray at the AO, in straights, lmao.

the only way we are saying this rings true is if we say Nadal is better on hard than clay, lol, could be true.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
135mph isn't beating Djokovic in 2011.

Federer serves a lot better than Nadal and got absolutely killed by Djokovic at Ao
Wawrinka serves a lot harder than 135mph and whilst was a threat to Djokovic, is still 2-1 down at AO and has way more firepower from the back of the court


besides, Nadal didn't even destroy 2010 Djokovic. Djokovic in 2010 was playing without a serve, a forehand and any motivation.

Nadal could not even win a set against Djokovic in 2011 on clay, he is not troubling Djokovic in any of the slams. 2010 Nadal lost to Murray at the AO, in straights, lmao.

the only way we are saying this rings true is if we say Nadal is better on hard than clay, lol, could be true.
Click to expand...

2>1, Bud.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
It wasn't a joke. You disagreed with my premise that Nadal would not beat Djokovic if they met at AO 2022 despite not being able to win a set against him on hard since 2013.
You disagreed with my premise that Nadal in 2010 would beat Djokovic in 2011 at AO or US Open despite not even winning a set against him on clay and getting killed on other surfaces.

I honestly believe people here have mental illness.
Click to expand...
No, if you could actually differentiate between bolded vs non- bolded font I disagreed with your premise that 2010 Nadal could only beat Joker at the USO because he wasn’t at his peak yet…when he beat him in the 2013 F. I disagreed with your premise that the only reason RAFA won the 09 AO was because Fed “choked”…even though RAFA was leading 1-0, 2-1 in sets played. Fed was playing from behind so you can’t call that a choke. I disagreed with your premise that RAFA only won the 2017 USO because Joker was slumping…when he’s the only player to beat Joker in multiple USO Fs. I disagreed with your premise that the only reason Fedal made the 2017 AO F was because Joker was slumping…even though they’ve both made a half dozen plus AO Fs. To put it bluntly, you are just a troll.
Donkus_Reborn said:
I honestly believe people here have mental illness.
Click to expand...
Have you tried look in the mirror? Or have the voices in your head reassured you there’s nothing to worry about :unsure:
 
The Blond Blur said:
No, if you could actually differentiate between bolded vs non- bolded font I disagreed with your premise that 2010 Nadal could only beat Joker at the USO because he wasn’t at his peak yet…when he beat him in the 2013 F. I disagreed with your premise that the only reason RAFA won the 09 AO was because Fed “choked”…even though RAFA was leading 1-0, 2-1 in sets played. Fed was playing from behind so you can’t call that a choke. I disagreed with your premise that RAFA only won the 2017 USO because Joker was slumping…when he’s the only player to beat Joker in multiple USO Fs. I disagreed with your premise that the only reason Fedal made the 2017 AO F was because Joker was slumping…even though they’ve both made a half dozen plus AO Fs. To put it bluntly, you are just a troll.

Have you tried look in the mirror? Or have the voices in your head reassured you there’s nothing to worry about :unsure:
Click to expand...

Federer choked. His first serve % was a joke. He wasted chances in the first set. Did you watch the match blindfolded? He completely choked that match away just like Nadal tried to choke W08 away.

Before djokovic was slumping in 2017 Nadal and Federer were not winners of the event since 2009 and 2010 respectfully. in 2017 and 2018 Fed won and Nadal was close to winning. When Djokovic came back they were no where close to winning. when Djokovic got banned in 2022 Nadal came out of the woodwork. It's a simple summarisation of how the snakes slithered through the cracks of the ATP draws, relying on the government for medals and accolades, claiming prizes where the main champion was defeated without stepping onto the court. I give you Federer and Nadal, ladies and gentlemen - japanese knotweed that takes advantage of weaknesses of structures whilst their fans jiiizz in amazement of their growth.

So glad they retired. atleast they can watch their legacy fade into nothingness.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Djokovic on hc

Vs Spain 82-18

Vs Russia 35-11
Vs USA 62-10
Vs Czech 42-2

Spain is actually doing very well because these other three nations have brilliant hard court players.
Click to expand...
hehe fedr has more wins against djoko on HC than all of spain combined, and fedr + wawrinka has more wins than spain and czech combined lol.
 
fedfan24 said:
AO09, 12, USO 10/13, IW 07, 09 are light years ahead of anything Alcaraz has shown so far. Alcaraz can’t even beat old man Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Old man Djokovic would kill Federer.

I will just remind you once more that Federer lost in straight sets to busted hip Kuerten at the FO, and got taken to 5 sets by 34 year old Agassi, who at one point in time, was a methh-head.
 
objection_ said:
hehe fedr has more wins against djoko on HC than all of spain combined, and fedr + wawrinka has more wins than spain and czech combined lol.
Click to expand...

Federer also has more chokes than any choker has combined. Doesn't he hold the record for most slam matches lost in semi's after holding match point? Other times when he isn't choking he was too busy losing 6-1 6-3 6-0, lol.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
Federer choked. His first serve % was a joke. He wasted chances in the first set. Did you watch the match blindfolded? He completely choked that match away just like Nadal tried to choke W08 away.

Before djokovic was slumping in 2017 Nadal and Federer were not winners of the event since 2009 and 2010 respectfully. in 2017 and 2018 Fed won and Nadal was close to winning. When Djokovic came back they were no where close to winning. when Djokovic got banned in 2022 Nadal came out of the woodwork. It's a simple summarisation of how the snakes slithered through the cracks of the ATP draws, relying on the government for medals and accolades, claiming prizes where the main champion was defeated without stepping onto the court. I give you Federer and Nadal, ladies and gentlemen - japanese knotweed that takes advantage of weaknesses of structures whilst their fans jiiizz in amazement of their growth.

So glad they retired. atleast they can watch their legacy fade into nothingness.
Click to expand...
Lol, Fed was serving that way the entire match. RAFA was leading the entire time and Fed had to play catch up to leveling things in sets 2 and 4. You really don’t know what a choke is if you think that’s choke or that it’s somehow in anyway comparable to Wimby 08 when RAFA was up 2-0 and was serving for the match in the 4th set.

That has nothing to do with them making the F. You said the only reason they made the F was because Joker was slumping. You’re just moving the goalposts the more you get called out. And RAFA didn’t come out of the wood work, lol. Every AO F he ever made came after Joker was an AO champ. It’d be a completely different story in he made a bunch of AO Fs before Joker became an AO champ and then went radio silent only to reappear after Joker got banned (his fault btw). And you just as easily say that Joker took advantage of Fedal’s decline to rack up GS after GS. The difference is unlike you I actual argue in good faith and don’t move the goalposts :censored:
 
The Blond Blur said:
Lol, Fed was serving that way the entire match. RAFA was leading the entire time and Fed had to play catch up to leveling things in sets 2 and 4. You really don’t know what a choke is if you think that’s choke or that it’s somehow in anyway comparable to Wimby 08 when RAFA was up 2-0 and was serving for the match in the 4th set.

That has nothing to do with them making the F. You said the only reason they made the F was because Joker was slumping. You’re just moving the goalposts the more you get called out. And RAFA didn’t come out of the wood work, lol. Every AO F he ever made came after Joker was an AO champ. It’d be a completely different story in he made a bunch of AO Fs before Joker became an AO champ and then went radio silent only to reappear after Joker got banned (his fault btw). And you just as easily say that Joker took advantage of Fedal’s decline to rack up GS after GS. The difference is unlike you I actual argue in good faith and don’t move the goalposts :censored:
Click to expand...

Federer serving poorly the entire match = choking. He was serving very well prior to the final and Nadal doesn't have a Nalbandian/Agassi type return which scares people. I've seen Nadal run backwards to make a return once. Lol.

Federer should have been 2-1 sets up, he choked the first set and had ample chances to win. He then packed it in and gave up in the 5th and mentally checked out. Then he cried like an idiot on court. Bottlejob.

Nadal did come out of the woodwork to win AO 2022, he hadn't won the event since 2009 and 2022 was the first season Djokovic was not allowed to play in. It was no different to how Federer was an opportunistic FO title in 2009. It's just 2+2. Nadal is not winning AO 2022 with Djokovic in the draw. What. Don't. You. Understand. About. This?
 
The Blond Blur said:
Lol, Fed was serving that way the entire match. RAFA was leading the entire time and Fed had to play catch up to leveling things in sets 2 and 4. You really don’t know what a choke is if you think that’s choke or that it’s somehow in anyway comparable to Wimby 08 when RAFA was up 2-0 and was serving for the match in the 4th set.

That has nothing to do with them making the F. You said the only reason they made the F was because Joker was slumping. You’re just moving the goalposts the more you get called out. And RAFA didn’t come out of the wood work, lol. Every AO F he ever made came after Joker was an AO champ. It’d be a completely different story in he made a bunch of AO Fs before Joker became an AO champ and then went radio silent only to reappear after Joker got banned (his fault btw). And you just as easily say that Joker took advantage of Fedal’s decline to rack up GS after GS. The difference is unlike you I actual argue in good faith and don’t move the goalposts :censored:
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just his time to pay back years of gambling debt placed on djoko lol.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
Federer serving poorly the entire match = choking. He was serving very well prior to the final and Nadal doesn't have a Nalbandian/Agassi type return which scares people. I've seen Nadal run backwards to make a return once. Lol.

Federer should have been 2-1 sets up, he choked the first set and had ample chances to win. He then packed it in and gave up in the 5th and mentally checked out. Then he cried like an idiot on court. Bottlejob.

Nadal did come out of the woodwork to win AO 2022, he hadn't won the event since 2009 and 2022 was the first season Djokovic was not allowed to play in. It was no different to how Federer was an opportunistic FO title in 2009. It's just 2+2. Nadal is not winning AO 2022 with Djokovic in the draw. What. Don't. You. Understand. About. This?
Click to expand...
You clearly don’t know what a choke is, lol. Fed was never in position to choke that match away. If poor serving = choking, then that means anyone who served poorly in a match choked… That’s just dumb.

RAFA made the QF or better in every edition outside of 2016 when he was at his lowest point in his career. This includes 4 Fs. So, no he didn’t come out of the woodwork. You’re conflating RAFa even making the 2022 F to Joker being banned (again his fault). And you even said as much when referencing Fedal making the F in 2017. You could just as easily say Joker only won Wimby so many times because he didn’t have to play his grass daddy Murray. Arguments like this can be made for any big time player.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
What? Federer had so many chances in the first set. I'm beginning to believe people didn't even watch this match. Federer should have been 2-0 sets up. He choked the first set.

Djokovic choked his FO match against Nadal when he was 4-2 up at FO 2013.
Click to expand...
First set was a seesaw anyways, fed donated the break right away in the first game with a double fault. Could say Rafa choked too by donating the break.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
Federer choked the first set away you donkey. A choke doesn't have to be at the end of the match.

Poor serving + losing the first set he should have won + giving up during the 5th set = choking, at worst, he was playing to lose in the 5th set which could be considered a tank job.
Click to expand...
At least I know what a choke is 8-B Fed was never leading period point blank. He was down 1-0, 2-1, before collapsing in the 5th. That’s not a choke no matter how you slice it.
 
objection_ said:
First set was a seesaw anyways, fed donated the break right away in the first game with a double fault. Could say Rafa choked too by donating the break.
Click to expand...

but the result was Federer choked the first set - i couldn't care less about the preamble. He should have been 2-0 sets up. The fifth set he gave up altogether. I think fed error was born that day. it's banned as a one word adjective or verb lol.
 
Playing poorly in a certain department the entire match isn't choking. You can call it underperforming but it's not choking. Choking implies a significant difference between your level of play in the clutch moments vs. the rest of the match. For example, Federer's forehand in the first set of Wimbledon 2019 F: he was hitting it well all set and winning plenty of rallies on that wing, and then it faltered in the tiebreak. But Fed serving poorly in AO 2009 isn't really a choke; it was just a bad day.

It's why I don't think Djokovic's infamous botched overhead in RG 2013 is much of a choke. His overhead was garbage the entire match, that specific point wasn't too far out of the ordinary for him.
 
Third Serve said:
Playing poorly in a certain department the entire match isn't choking. You can call it underperforming but it's not choking. Choking implies a significant difference between your level of play in the clutch moments vs. the rest of the match. For example, Federer's forehand in the first set of Wimbledon 2019 F: he was hitting it well all set and winning plenty of rallies on that wing, and then it faltered in the tiebreak. But Fed serving poorly in AO 2009 isn't really a choke; it was just a bad day.

It's why I don't think Djokovic's infamous botched overhead in RG 2013 is much of a choke. His overhead was garbage the entire match, that specific point wasn't too far out of the ordinary for him.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that. I'm saying he played well, but wasted chances and served poorly and in the 5th set collapsed. He choked on stage and started crying.
 
Alcaraz hc break + hold

2022 - 81.4 + 30 - 111.4 slam contender
2023 - 84.4 + 30.9 - 114.3 slam contender
2024 - 88.8 + 29.2 - 118 strong slam contender.

For OP to use Carlos from 2022 especially from early 2022 can be viewed as bias as Carlos was still a KID. Not even 19.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
Nadal in 2011 couldn't even beat Djokovic on clay, how is Nadal 2010 beating Djokovic 2011 on hard? U on crack bro?
Click to expand...
Did it escape your attention, regarding 2011, that Nadal was a set up at both Indian Wells and Key Biscayne against Djokovic, but lost in both Madrid and Rome in straight sets?

In the 2011 Indian Wells final, after how well Nadal served in winning the first set, you wouldn't have expected him to lose. In the 2011 Key Biscayne final, after Nadal won the first set, you would never expect Djokovic to go on to be fitter than Nadal in the third set. That's what created the 2011 Djokovic monster.
 
Donkus_Reborn said:
24>22, with a grand canyon of a gap incoming this year after he wins another two slams.
Click to expand...

What a dofus donkus, 12 slams in inflation era 2018-2023, duh. Where was he in 2012-2014 when post prime Fed destroyed him at Wimby and post speed Nadal was already nowhere near his speed of 2007-2010. Also MurrayGOAT destroyed him in Us 2012 and Wimby 2013.

I could wins slams in the 2018-23 era.

Just because Emerson won 12 slams to lead the slam race back then dosen't mean Laver and Borg were inferior.
 
Last edited:
Sport said:
In view of the fact that almost 22 years old Alcaraz (with 4 Slams at his back) lost to almost 38 years old Novak in 4 at the AO, while 25 years old Nadal pushed 24 years old Novak to 5 sets at the AO 2012, does it mean Nadal possesses a superior peak level on hard?

It's also woth mentioning that Alcaraz has never beaten Novak on hard, in spite of always having faced a 36+ version of the Serbian, while Rafa beat twice a Novak in his 20s at the USO.

Some candid questions:

Is Novak playing better at age 37 and a half than in 2013 when Nadal beat him in Canada and the USO?

Is Alcaraz extremely away from his peak, considering he has already won 4 Slams and has been #1 and Year-End #1?

Why did Alcaraz lose against an injured in the rib and 35 and a half years old Nadal at Indian Wells 2022?

Click to expand...
Nadal's best HC level was in USO ' 13 series. Won Canada(bt Djoker), Cincy(bt. Fed) and US Open. In finals played one of the best matches to beat Djokovic.
He beat Djoker in 2010 USO also but at that time Djoker was not at that level
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BGod
  • Poll Poll
06-07 Nadal vs. 23-24 Alcaraz at Wimbledon?
Replies
41
Views
822
NatF
NatF
weakera
  • Poll Poll
Did Alcaraz defeat peak Djokovic or was this an incredibly weak era?
2 3
Replies
142
Views
4K
mike danny
mike danny
aman92
  • Poll Poll
Peak Murray vs Peak Medvedev on Hard Courts - who wins?
2
Replies
76
Views
3K
Djokodalerer31
Djokodalerer31
M
  • Poll Poll
Which outcome is more likely, Alcaraz eventually reaching peak Big Three level (2006 Fed/2010 Nadal/2011 Nole) or Djokovic winning the CYGS in 2024?
Replies
33
Views
1K
BauerAlmeida
BauerAlmeida
M
  • Poll Poll
Hot Take: 20-year-old Djokovic is better than 20-year-old Alcaraz
2
Replies
97
Views
4K
thrust
T
Back
Top