Nadal vs Djokovic Wimbledon 2019 Final

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Nadal lost to Federer in 4 sets in the SF but what would've happened if Nadal/Djokovic had met in the final? And based on their respective form? Would Nadal have beaten Djokovic in the final seeing that it was an open roof and conditions were good for his game? Was Djokovic in good enough form to withstand Nadal had they met in the final? Taking into account how competitive their Wimbledon 2018 meeting was under the closed roof.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
But if Nadal was playing better and beat 2019 Federer in the SF, he'd have a good shot at beating Djokovic too. But I understand this thread puts 2019 Wimbledon Nadal against 2019 Djokovic.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic wins. Don't forget that they had played the AO 2019 final which was a complete beatdown and was still very recent. And the fact Djokovic matches up a lot better against Nadal than he does against Federer.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Well Nadal is 0 for life against DJokovic at Wimbledon/AO. So theres probably a 10 percent chance of Nadal winning Wimbledon over Nole in 2019. If he couldn't beat Nole in 2018 with a higher level, he can't do it in 2019 at a lower level
Nadal beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in the semi finals in 2007. Nadal won 3-6, 6-1, 4-1, when Djokovic retired with blisters on his feet.
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
Norton beat Ali and broke Ali's jaw
Foreman smashed Norton in 1 round

What happens when Ali meets Foreman?

Yes, it's all about matchups but Federer had more weapons to deal with Djokovic at Wimb. So if Federer failed of all people, I doubt Nadal would have found a way to win. I think a less telling and relevant example would be Wimb 18, Djokovic beating Nadal in the SF doesn't mean he could have beaten Federer in the final if he had made it past the QF.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Djokovic wins. Don't forget that they had played the AO 2019 final which was a complete beatdown and was still very recent. And the fact Djokovic matches up a lot better against Nadal than he does against Federer.
Does he? Then how come Djokovic always seems to beat Federer in the biggest matches going back to 2014 at least, perhaps even back to 2011, whereas Nadal continues to have many big wins over Djokovic?
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Norton beat Ali and broke Ali's jaw
Foreman smashed Norton in 1 round

What happens when Ali meets Foreman?
Foreman boomaye, my good man.
george-foreewmand.jpg
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Yes, it's all about matchups but Federer had more weapons to deal with Djokovic at Wimb. So if Federer failed of all people, I doubt Nadal would have found a way to win. I think a less telling and relevant example would be Wimb 18, Djokovic beating Nadal in the SF doesn't mean he could have beaten Federer in the final if he had made it past the QF.
The Nadal vs. Djokovic 2018 Wimbledon semi was the only match of the tournament not played outdoors in the heatwave.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Does he? Then how come Djokovic always seems to beat Federer in the biggest matches going back to 2014 at least, perhaps even back to 2011, whereas Nadal continues to have many big wins over Djokovic?
5 year age difference between Fed and Nadal certainly explains at least part of it.

No one's going to argue against a 32-38 year old Fed on grass being easier to beat than a 28-35 year old Nadal on clay, especially when scaled for Novak's own ages at the time.
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
Nadal lost to Federer in 4 sets in the SF but what would've happened if Nadal/Djokovic had met in the final? And based on their respective form? Would Nadal have beaten Djokovic in the final seeing that it was an open roof and conditions were good for his game? Was Djokovic in good enough form to withstand Nadal had they met in the final? Taking into account how competitive their Wimbledon 2018 meeting was under the closed roof.
Why do you have to say “Wimbledon 2019 Final”?

Please, for the love, never saw those words again.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Another thing to keep in mind, Nadal has never beat a healthy Djokovic at Wimbledon. Even injured foot Djokovic took peak Nadal in 2007 on, splitting the first two sets. 2019 Djokovic is a lot more of an accomplished player than he was back in 2007.
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Don’t think Ned even makes it to MPs. He was clearly worse than the previous year. Djokovic was too but not to the same extent.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
How does that change what I said ?
I was just making a point that Nadal isn't all that far away from Djokovic at Wimbledon in terms of matchup. And Djokovic has found a way to beat Federer in all 3 of their Wimbledon finals against each other, even though he was outplayed for the considerable majority of the 2019 final. Djokovic still won the 2019 final because he was much better than Federer in all 3 of the tiebreaks.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
5 year age difference between Fed and Nadal certainly explains at least part of it.

No one's going to argue against a 32-38 year old Fed on grass being easier to beat than a 28-35 year old Nadal on clay, especially when scaled for Novak's own ages at the time.

2011 should show exactly how the match up works between them, when Federer was still late 20s, turning 30.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Another thing to keep in mind, Nadal has never beat a healthy Djokovic at Wimbledon. Even injured foot Djokovic took peak Nadal in 2007 on, splitting the first two sets. 2019 Djokovic is a lot more of an accomplished player than he was back in 2007.
Hang on. Both Nadal and Djokovic weren't in great shape at 2007 Wimbledon. They had both played every day that second week. Nadal had epics with Soderling and Youzhny before beating a then bad matchup in Berdych, while Djokovic had epics with Hewitt and Baghdatis.
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
Does he? Then how come Djokovic always seems to beat Federer in the biggest matches going back to 2014 at least, perhaps even back to 2011, whereas Nadal continues to have many big wins over Djokovic?

I'm really curious about what you mean by "continues to", since he's been failing to beat him outside of clay for 9 years now. If you wanna argue that Claydal is a more difficult matchup for Djokovic than Clayderer, I don't think anyone would try to dispute that.
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
I was just making a point that Nadal isn't all that far away from Djokovic at Wimbledon in terms of matchup. And Djokovic has found a way to beat Federer in all 3 of their Wimbledon finals against each other, even though he was outplayed for the considerable majority of the 2019 final. Djokovic still won the 2019 final because he was much better than Federer in all 3 of the tiebreaks.
It’s true.

But six years older Fed also helps.

Novak lost in 4 to Fed in 2012. Fed was not at his peak anymore but Novak was close to his.

And it wasn’t even really that close a match.

Not like the 2/3 finals when Fed was much farther from his prime years.

Nadal is also a different match up so it’s not exactly apples to apples.

But overall, I think Nadal’s peak on grass was powerful but really short.

I don’t think he’d have much of a chance against Novak.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
2011 should show exactly how the match up works between them, when Federer was still late 20s, turning 30.
It's unfortunate they didn't play at Wimbledon that year or against Nadal at RG to give us a better idea of the rivalries at the time.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Nadal looked very good up to the QFs, but was a bit surprisingly brutalized in the SF vs Fred.
 

jl809

Legend
Djokovic would win, maybe even in 4. Nadal wasn't as good as 2018 and Djokovic was better. Not quite his peak level but good enough to win the tournament.

No way. There is no way that 2018ovic goes missing for portions of the match the way 2019ovic did in that final. And there is nothing to suggest that 2019ovic's level pre-final was better than 2018ovic's level from R1 - QF.

2018ovic vs 2019erer would have been a fantastic match.

Both were worse in 2019 than they were in 2018. Probably Joker in 5 if I had to guess.

This is correct imo.

Another thing to keep in mind, Nadal has never beat a healthy Djokovic at Wimbledon. Even injured foot Djokovic took peak Nadal in 2007 on, splitting the first two sets. 2019 Djokovic is a lot more of an accomplished player than he was back in 2007.

Cmon man, this is poor by your usually good standards
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic would win, maybe even in 4. Nadal wasn't as good as 2018 and Djokovic was better. Not quite his peak level but good enough to win the tournament.
Let's not overreact. Djokovic clearly played a better match in Wimbledon 2018 semifinal than in the 2019 final, it's not even close. However, part of it probably has to do with matchup issues, against Federer he almost always plays worse. And yeah, Nadal in 2019 was worse.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
Djokovic in 4.

However, Bull will summarily dismiss the Serb this year at Wimby. Likely in straights, though I could see Nole snatching a TB.
 

bnjkn

Professional
2019 W is a particular instance of moral fed and hypothetical bull. The other way around is more common.
 

holy tennis

Semi-Pro
Nadal wins. He just didn’t want to compete against his "friend" :sick: Federer. No fire, no reactions, no desire, nothing. Never even thought of trying to win the match. Against Djokovic it would’ve been very, very different. Similar mindset to what we saw in Rome. And Djokovic was playing like sh*t. Berrettini 2021 probably beats Djokovic 2019 too. He wouldn’t mug up tiebreaks like Federer did.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
The greatest mindgame in the history of tennis is not someone playing possum, it’s Federer convincing his master Nadal that they are friends, leading to Nadal losing all competitive spirit in their matches.

:D

Imagine Monfils fooling Djokovic into false friendship, leading to him playing about three times worse in each of their matches?

Not sure he fooled him into false friendship for that occasion, but 2016 USO SF is what you're looking for.
 

holy tennis

Semi-Pro
The greatest mindgame in the history of tennis is not someone playing possum, it’s Federer convincing his master Nadal that they are friends, leading to Nadal losing all competitive spirit in their matches.

Imagine Monfils fooling Djokovic into false friendship, leading to him playing about three times worse in each of their matches?
Too bad of Nadal for falling to this trick. But he is just too good of a person, he doesn’t have any evil intentions himself and hence doesn’t assume others having them.

If Federer told me that the sun is shining outside, I would’ve took an umbrella.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Nadal's edge over Federer was relentless grinding, not shortening the points and attacking. The latter has helped older Nadal against the field, but not against Federer.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
It is even hard to watch the Only in America version of Ali vs Holmes.

So sad when Holmes is telling Ali he's sorry after the fight and he would give him money if he needs it. Just don't fight again.

Then Ali responds. You won't have much left to give when Don King is through with you.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
A peaking/goating Nadal is a possibility at any tournament. But looking at the broader picture the conclusion is clear. Novak (and Fed for that matter) are better than Nadal at HC/grass. Peak bull could, and did, counter that but peak bull is long gone.

the nadalovic rivalry has become almost 100% surface dependent in its final years. It’s no coincidence Nadal hasn’t beaten Novak outside of clay since 2013. It’s no coincidence that Nadal won every single one of his post 30 non clay slams without having to face Federer or Djokovic.

so while anything is posible the clear favorite would have been Novak. Who, after all, has won 5 Wimbledons including the last three since the last time Nadal played a final at Center Court
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
If Nadal served like he did pre-SF he'd take it in 4. Based on SF form though, Djokovic would be the favorite.
 
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