Nadal vs Murray Madrid 2016 Highlights

NoleFam said:
Year of 2016 on clay. Such great memories...Murray was great on clay that year and it was the best clay season of his career.
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As usual, hyping the player who collapsed after 40 minutes of a slam final, gifting Djokovic the title on a plate.
 
NoleFam said:
His takedown of Wawrinka was one of the highlights of the season. Nobody expected him to beat him that easily.
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Murray is seriously underrated on clay, he started to bring it to clay since 2011. That Rome classic against Djokovic in the semi in edge of the seat stuff.
 
Hitman said:
We get it.

Djokovic shouldn't ever have won any slam, We know, he is a fraud. All hail Federer and Nadal. :cool:
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Just recently you wrote a list of why he doesn't deserve any of his slams. It was very convincing, even though you forgot to mention RG being turned into DO. :giggle:
 
StrongRule said:
Just recently you wrote a list of why he doesn't deserve any of his slams. It was very convincing, even though you forgot to mention RG being turned into DO. :giggle:
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Yes, the list that was contributed to by you and all of this other haters. You guys deserve praise for how you complain about every single thing he has ever done. Kudos!. LOL
 
Hitman said:
Murray is seriously underrated on clay, he started to bring it to clay since 2011. That Rome classic against Djokovic in the semi in edge of the seat stuff.
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Yea the Rome match was great and I guess that's the time he started getting better on the surface. Still was a step behind the big 3 though but you could see the gap had really narrowed by 2014. He came close to beating Nadal at Rome that year.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
That's why I don't trust most people. Wawrinka is super high peak player but he can be beaten far more probably than not. He did lose in R1 in 2014.
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The conditions were perfect for Murray and not so much for Wawrinka. He couldn't hit through Murray and that was peak Murray counterpunching.
 
Hitman said:
Yes, the list that was contributed to by you and all of this other haters. You guys deserve praise for how you complain about every single thing he has ever done. Kudos!. LOL
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Saying that Murray was awful in RG 2016 final doesn't mean complaining about every single thing, but whatever.

Don't remember any Federer or Nadal fans overhyping a player who collapsed after 40 minutes against them.
 
NoleFam said:
Yea the Rome match was great and I guess that's the time he started getting better on the surface. Still was a step behind the big 3 though but you could see the gap had really narrowed by 2014. He came close to beating Nadal at Rome that year.
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Yes, he had arrived at that point. Then we saw the best of him in 2015 and 2016.
 
Mainad said:
Interesting that he only ever won 1 title at Hamburg (2008) and made 1 other final (2007) which is by far his lowest tally for any big clay event.
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Nadal did win Hamburg in 2015 as well, when it was a 500 event.

Mainad said:
Clearly altitude wasn't the only consideration. What was it about Hamburg that he fared so poorly there by comparison?
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Nadal missed Hamburg in 2004 because of an ankle stress fracture sustained in the match against Gasquet in Estoril, missed Hamburg in 2005 because of a blister on his left hand (which was visible during the Rome final against Coria on some changeovers), missed Hamburg in 2006 after another epic Rome final, this time against Federer. Remember that Federer's win over Nadal in the 2007 Hamburg final ended a clay-court match winning streak of Nadal's of 81 wins in a row. That match was on 20 May 2007, and it had been 772 days since Nadal had previously lost a match on clay, on 8 April 2005 against Andreev in the quarter finals of 2005 Valencia.

Conditions in Hamburg are not as good as Rome and Paris for Nadal, mostly because of the damper, heavier conditions that are more common in Hamburg.
 
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NoleFam said:
Yea the Rome match was great and I guess that's the time he started getting better on the surface. Still was a step behind the big 3 though but you could see the gap had really narrowed by 2014. He came close to beating Nadal at Rome that year.
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Let's be real though. Even in 2016 Murray was not top 2 favorite at rg. Was he even third?

2015 he was not top 2 anyway, behind Djokovic Nadal and even Federer.
 
StrongRule said:
Saying that Murray was awful in RG 2016 final doesn't mean complaining about every single thing, but whatever.

Don't remember any Federer or Nadal fans overhyping a player who collapsed after 40 minutes against them.
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I am talking about the collective front. Seriously, the amount of effort that gets put into taking away single win of his is quite something. Makes you wonder how much luck was this guy born with....I've heard of the luck of the Irish, but he probably walks around with the entire island in his back pocket when he plays.
 
No one expected Murray to win RG until he made the final as far as I recollect. I may be wrong but this is the same player who never made final on any clay tournament until 2015 Madrid.

That's why we joked about clayray.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
To me Nadal was player 2 on clay in 2016. Not Murray. At least till RG.

Nadal got wrist injury while Murray saved MP in r1 and reached final. And people have forgotten how things were. Djokovic was far and away favorite and Nadal was distant second.
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I missed that. Normally i didn't see Murray as a big threat. Murray played 2 5 setters in first 2 rounds and lost bunch of sets overall. Didn't know Murray's record.

Underrating the Nadal is hilarious. Seeing that Murray would have no chance against Nadal at RG in 2016 had they played. I always saw as 2 player who could win Nadal or Djokovic. It was probably the worst RG ever since 2005 maybe only last year come close.


@Hitman Me or anyone is not responsible for what some members said here. Btw most stats suggest my view and never said Nadal would win easily or anything. Nadal not one of the favourites it's just joke. People has so much memory from 2015 in his worst year.
 
StrongRule said:
As usual, hyping the player who collapsed after 40 minutes of a slam final, gifting Djokovic the title on a plate.
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After seeing or knowing Murray's results did you really expect him to win the finals. I know i didn't care the tournament after Nadal withdraw.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
No one expected Murray to win RG until he made the final as far as I recollect. I may be wrong but this is the same player who never made final on any clay tournament until 2015 Madrid.

That's why we joked about clayray.
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Murray in 2016 won Rome and was runner-up of Madrid, having won Madrid in 2015. Murray had been in the semi finals of the French Open the previous 2 years before 2016. He was right up there.
 
Phenomenal said:
After seeing or knowing Murray's results did you really expect him to win the finals. I know i didn't care the tournament after Nadal withdraw.
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That performance was awful even by Murray's slam final standards though. But some Djokovic fans think that collapsing against Djokovic means playing great.
 
Phenomenal said:
I missed that. Normally i didn't see Murray as a big threat. Murray played 2 5 setters in first 2 rounds and lost bunch of sets overall. Didn't know Murray's record.

Underrating the Nadal is hilarious. Seeing that Murray would have no chance against Nadal at RG in 2016 had they played. I always saw as 2 player who could win Nadal or Djokovic. It was probably the worst RG ever since 2005 maybe only last year come close.


@Hitman Me or anyone is not responsible for what some members said here. Btw most stats suggest my view and never said Nadal would win easily or anything. Nadal not one of the favourites it's just joke. People has so much memory from 2015 in his worst year.
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You are saying 2010 RG was better ? Come on now.

Nadal was far and away better than everyone else combined. Federer had completely collapsed before in clay prep. There was nobody else.
 
Phenomenal said:
I missed that. Normally i didn't see Murray as a big threat. Murray played 2 5 setters in first 2 rounds and lost bunch of sets overall. Didn't know Murray's record.

Underrating the Nadal is hilarious. Seeing that Murray would have no chance against Nadal at RG in 2016 had they played. I always saw as 2 player who could win Nadal or Djokovic. It was probably the worst RG ever since 2005 maybe only last year come close.


@Hitman Me or anyone is not responsible for what some members said here. Btw most stats suggest my view and never said Nadal would win easily or anything. Nadal not one of the favourites it's just joke. People has so much memory from 2015 in his worst year.
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As I said to you, I am not really interested in anyone telling me 8 years after the fact that he was a strong favorite for the title, when I saw something very different in real time as it happened. I'm not going to accept it now, sorry. Again, if you felt that way, good for you, but you were not here, so you don't know how low the confidence was about Nadal here. I'm not going to say anything further.
 
Phenomenal said:
After seeing or knowing Murray's results did you really expect him to win the finals. I know i didn't care the tournament after Nadal withdraw.
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I thought Murray had a good chance of winning the final, and I was bitterly annoyed at the time at Murray's performance in sets 2-4.
 
NoleFam said:
So if 2015 and 2016 are not his 2 best clay years, what are they then?
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The funny thing is, Murray played better in RG 2011 semifinal than he did in the 2016 final. He gave some fight for 3 sets (every set lasted longer than an hour), not just 1. But I've never seen any Nadal fan hyping this win.
 
StrongRule said:
The funny thing is, Murray played better in RG 2011 semifinal than he did in the 2016 final. He gave some fight for 3 sets (every set lasted longer than an hour), not just 1. But I've never seen any Nadal fan hyping this win.
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I knew you would say a year where he went down to Nadal. Typical. Pot meets kettle. What notable wins on clay did Murray have in 2011? Simon?
 
Hitman said:
As I said to you, I am not really interested in anyone telling me 8 years after the fact that he was a strong favorite for the title, when I saw something very different in real time as it happened. I'm not going to accept it now, sorry. Again, if you felt that way, good for you, but you were not here, so you don't know how low the confidence was about Nadal here. I'm not going to say anything further.
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I don't know but I will ask @MichaelNadal his opinions before the tournament.

Djokovic was far away the favorite but basically everyone was looking and salivating at seeing the semis as deciding match.

there were some very pessimistic Nadal fans but they were agenda driven to take the glory away from Nole. He was looking at ncygs never done before.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
You are saying 2010 RG was better ? Come on now.

Nadal was far and away better than everyone else combined. Federer had completely collapsed before in clay prep. There was nobody else.
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I was gonna mention that. Why not accept anything. Still it was better than 2016. Nadal didn't lost a set in whole tournament or lost a match in clay season. Played against Soderling who is better player than Murray as Nadal is better than Djokovic at RG. Still oppose? I even forgot Federer no comparison tbh. to 2016. Where you have strong Nadal in 2010 etc.
 
Phenomenal said:
I was gonna mention that. Why not accept anything. Still it was better than 2016. Nadal didn't lost a set in whole tournament or lost a match in clay season. Played against Soderling who is better player than Murray as Nadal is better than Djokovic at RG. Still oppose?
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I agree that Nadal is better player than Djokovic at RG. Far and away. But Djokovic was in murderous form those days.

Soderling is not better than Murray at rg.
 
I think we are both agreeing that Nadal was second favorite. though we disagree on if this was the worst RG in 10 years. That's all.
 
NoleFam said:
I knew you would say a year where he went down to Nadal. Typical. Pot meets kettle. What notable wins on clay did Murray have on clay in 2011? Simon?
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MC semifinal (losing to a much better Nadal than in 2016), Rome semifinal with almost beating absolute peak Djokovic. Give him the 2016 non existent competition and he would have done better than that for sure.

Anyway, I compared 2 very specific matches, and said I've never seen Nadal fans hyping this win. Surely not the 2014 semifinal. But for Djokovic fans, even if a player lost 6-0 6-0 6-0 to Djokovic, he played well.
 
Hitman said:
As I said to you, I am not really interested in anyone telling me 8 years after the fact that he was a strong favorite for the title, when I saw something very different in real time as it happened. I'm not going to accept it now, sorry. Again, if you felt that way, good for you, but you were not here, so you don't know how low the confidence was about Nadal here. I'm not going to say anything further.
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@nolefam_2024 doesn't say the same. The important thing about Nadal having confident or not. Not 10 or 50 people here. I'm sure not only me from the fans lol. Murray or Djokovic was not RG champion back then.

How many people believed Stan would win the RG 15 final against Djokovic Even worse Wilander's statement lol. There is huge underrating on Nadal i'm saying we can disagree about who would win but Nadal was surely contender.
 
Phenomenal said:
I was gonna mention that. Why not accept anything. Still it was better than 2016. Nadal didn't lost a set in whole tournament or lost a match in clay season. Played against Soderling who is better player than Murray as Nadal is better than Djokovic at RG. Still oppose? I even forgot Federer no comparison tbh. to 2016. Where you have strong Nadal in 2010 etc.
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Of course a Nadal fan wouldn't enjoy 2016 RG since Nadal had to withdraw with injury. A Djokovic fan is going to love that tournament because it was where his 1st title came and the Nole Slam happened. I remember a fellow ttw Nole fan was texting me during the SF giving me updates while I'm driving to move cross country. Lol. Great memories. Of course, it's not the same for you.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
I agree that Nadal is better player than Djokovic at RG. Far and away. But Djokovic was in murderous form those days.

Soderling is not better than Murray at rg.
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In 2009-2010 he was. In 2011 he lost to Nadal aswell like in 2010. Nadal + Federer + Soderling of course better than Djokovic + Murray since Nadal stopped.
Nadal alone enough but anyway.
 
StrongRule said:
MC semifinal (losing to a much better Nadal than in 2016), Rome semifinal with almost beating absolute peak Djokovic. Give him the 2016 non existent competition and he would have done better than that for sure.

Anyway, I compared 2 very specific matches, and said I've never seen Nadal fans hyping this win. Surely not the 2014 semifinal. But for Djokovic fans, even if a player lost 6-0 6-0 6-0 to Djokovic, he played well.
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This is like me saying Djokovic in 2008 was better on clay than 2016 because he pushed peak Nadal for a set. Lol. No one is even hyping the final as great or great form for Murray. We said his entire 2016 clay season was great. Big difference.
 
Hitman said:
As I said to you, I am not really interested in anyone telling me 8 years after the fact that he was a strong favorite for the title, when I saw something very different in real time as it happened. I'm not going to accept it now, sorry. Again, if you felt that way, good for you, but you were not here, so you don't know how low the confidence was about Nadal here. I'm not going to say anything further.
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What are you disagreeing about. Let's see some proof.

See this.

Djokovic -125
Nadal +350
Murray +400
Wawrinka +1600

I am telling you it was just some bad apples who wanted to declare Nadal as done. I was among them in 2015 but when Nadal did win mc in 2016 I reconsidered. These guys didn't, they wanted miracles to happen. But those were extreme fanatics.

bleacherreport.com

2016 French Open Odds: Djokovic Betting Favorite to Win Title over Nadal, Murray

Top seed Novak Djokovic has never won the French Open men’s singles title, as he finished second in 2012, 2014 and 2015. However, that has not stopped oddsmakers from making the world’s No...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
 
Phenomenal said:
@nolefam_2024 doesn't say the same. The important thing about Nadal having confident or not. Not 10 or 50 people here. I'm sure not only me from the fans lol. Murray or Djokovic was not RG champion back then.

How many people believed Stan would win the RG 15 final against Djokovic Even worse Wilander's statement lol. There is huge underrating on Nadal i'm saying we can disagree about who would win but Nadal was surely contender.
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Sorry. Not giving Nadal a hypothetical win in 2016. Not going to add any more to this discussion, as before we simply disagree. I predicted Djokovic v Murray final without hesitation before it happened, so not going to backtrack on a correct prediction because of the usual - If Nadal was not injured narrative. I'm out.
 
NoleFam said:
This is like me saying Djokovic in 2008 was better on clay than 2016 because he pushed peak Nadal for a set. Lol. No one is even hyping the final as great or great form for Murray. We said the entire 2016 season was great. Big difference.
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By the way, 2008 Djokovic surely wins RG with his 2016 draw, I don't doubt that for a moment.
 
NoleFam said:
Of course a Nadal fan wouldn't enjoy 2016 RG since Nadal had to withdraw with injury. A Djokovic fan is going to love that tournament because it was where his 1st title came and the Nole Slam happened. I remember a fellow ttw Nole fan was texting me during the SF giving me updates while I'm driving to move cross country. Lol. Great memories. Of course, it's not the same for you.
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Of course great memories for you fans. Seeing Nadal not contender or suggesting he couldn't win against Djokovic just ridiculous to me.
It is probably due to 2015-2016 Djokovic wins where most was outside of clay and 2015 is different than 2016.
 
Now anyone with half knowledge of odds can see how much of an overwhelming favorite Djokovic was even before the tournament started. He basically lost 1 set to the final and that was during rain.

While our clayray had to save mps to just survive r1. He did win first set in the final when djokovic was nervous but when nerves were gone, Djokovic was lights out better than Andy. So much so that everyone started feeling SORRY for Andy. Like how they would feel sorry for Andy vs Nadal at rg in the years past.

@Hitman
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Now anyone with half knowledge of odds can see how much of an overwhelming favorite Djokovic was even before the tournament started. He basically lost 1 set to the final and that was during rain.

While our clayray had to save mps to just survive r1. He did win first set in the final when djokovic was nervous but when nerves were gone, Djokovic was lights out better than Andy. So much so that everyone started feeling SORRY for Andy. Like how they would feel sorry for Andy vs Nadal at rg in the years past.

@Hitman
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Was there any people in the world believes after the first 2 round Murray has more chance than Nadal? Man it's just hilarious.
 
Phenomenal said:
Of course great memories for you fans. Seeing Nadal not contender or suggesting he couldn't win against Djokovic just ridiculous to me.
It is probably due to 2015-2016 Djokovic wins where most was outside of clay and 2015 is different than 2016.
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You can also see the odds.

-125.

This is exact type of odds Nadal used to get in his prime years at rg.

It's fruitless to fight about how much a favorite djokovic was despite never winning RG before.
 
Nadal in 2016 looked good in winning Monte Carlo and Barcelona, and looked decent in Madrid and Rome despite the losses. Djokovic was certainly more used to winning big events at that time, and obviously a big favourite for the French Open, while Murray was peaking later in the clay season rather than earlier as Nadal had done. Nadal's wrist injury ruined the chance to see just how far he would go at that 2016 French Open. Nadal himself was distraught at the time.
 
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