Nadal vs Top 10 Players on HC (since Winning Indian Wells 2009)

Blinkism

Legend
"Your mind powers will not work on me boy."

these_are_not_the_droids.jpg


These are not the trolls you're looking for.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
But note that the YECs were not all played indoor. For instance Fed won 2 of his YEC titles on outdoor hard.
Unfortunately for Rafa, since he's started playing it, it's always been indoor, which is his worst surface by far.
However I also believe that Rafa can improve his record on that surface. He's been working hard on his serve lately and that should help him, after all he's made finals in Rotterdam and in Paris master. (+ won Madrid indoor)
 
Last edited:

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Hewitt is still active but almost all his titles happened before 2005. I would put Nadal before Djoko on outdoor hard because he won more MS + Olympics. I think Djoko has disappointed recently relative to his perceived potential on this surface. Then I would put Murray and Delpo in front of Davydenko just because they've done better in slams. So my ranking would be (for active players regardless of their current form or age- naturally the youngest ones are likely to end up higher on the list)
1- Roger Federer
2- Lleyton Hewitt
3- Andy Roddick
4- Rafael Nadal
5- Novak Djokovic
6- JM Del Potro
7- Andy Murray
8- N. Davydenko
9- Ivan Ljubicic
10- Marin Cilic

I would put Nadal before Djoko on outdoor hard because he won more MS + Olympics. I think Djoko has disappointed recently relative to his perceived potential on this surface.

Sorry, h2h was always so important to you but now you want to ignore it. Novak owned rafa on hc. Murray has beaten Rafa in the last 2 meeting on hc slam. Davy is leading h2h. DP crushed rafa last year USO. So the answer is no, these guys are ahead of Rafa on hc. If you dispute that, then you can throw the 14-7 h2h out of the window.

Stop contradicting yourself.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Sorry, h2h was always so important to you but now you want to ignore it. Novak owned rafa on hc. Murray has beaten Rafa in the last 2 meeting on hc slam. Davy is leading h2h. DP crushed rafa last year USO. So the answer is no, these guys are ahead of Rafa on hc. If you dispute that, then you can throw the 14-7 h2h out of the window.

Stop contradicting yourself.
I'm just listing the titles. How can Djokovic "own" Nadal on OUTDOOR HARD when the most important event they've played on that surface is the Olympics and Rafa won it? Nadal is 6-2 vs Federer in slams and 1-0 vs Federer in hard court slams. Djoko and Nadal have never met in a hard court slam. Let's see what happens when they do. All this being said Nadal and Djoko's record on outdoor hard is tight, their definitive placement will be determined in the next few years I'm sure or even possibly at this USO!
Murray is not in the conversation given he has 0 slam title and not enough titles in general (yet). But his 2 slam finals certainly indicate he has the potential to do better.
 
Last edited:

bolo

G.O.A.T.
I am eager to see how nadal does against djokovic at the Open.

But this current novak has a good chance of losing to murray, berdych, soderling, roddick, verdasco, tsonga and could be in trouble against kohlschreiber, donald young, gulbis etc. I don't really see novak making this open final.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm just listing the titles. How can Djokovic "own" Nadal on OUTDOOR HARD when the most important event they've played on that surface is the Olympics and Rafa won it? Nadal is 6-2 vs Federer in slams and 1-0 vs Federer in hard court slams. Djoko and Nadal have never met in a hard court slam. Let's see what happens when they do. All this being said Nadal and Djoko's record on outdoor hard is tight, their definitive placement will be determined in the next few years I'm sure or even possibly at this USO!
Murray is not in the conversation given he has 0 slam title and not enough titles in general (yet). But his 2 slam finals certainly indicate he has the potential to do better.

I’m using yours and all the *******s logic by ignoring the slam count and focusing on the h2h matchup. Fact is Murray currently owned rafa on hc at the AO and USO. Novak is 7-3 lifetime against Nadal on hc.

Therefore, Novak/Murray >> Nadal on hc.
What now? Are you going to argue against your own methodology?
 

Cyan

Hall of Fame
I am eager to see how nadal does against djokovic at the Open.

But this current novak has a good chance of losing to murray, berdych, soderling, roddick, verdasco, tsonga and could be in trouble against kohlschreiber, donald young, gulbis etc. I don't really see novak making this open final.

Nole got like really, really, really lucky at Wimbledon by avoiding both Roddick AND Fed:shock: and he still lost to Berdych.:-? Unreal. :shock:
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
Nole got like really, really, really lucky at Wimbledon by avoiding both Roddick AND Fed:shock: and he still lost to Berdych.:-? Unreal. :shock:

yeah he's relatively weak for a while, might not even want to deal with nadal really.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
But note that the YECs were not all played indoor. For instance Fed won 2 of his YEC titles on outdoor hard.
Unfortunately for Rafa, since he's started playing it, it's always been indoor, which is his worst surface by far.
However I also believe that Rafa can improve his record on that surface. He's been working hard on his serve lately and that should help him, after all he's made finals in Rotterdam and in Paris master. (+ won Madrid indoor)

Life isn’t always fair. No player have everything their own way throughout their entire career. E.g. Court speed have slow down that benefitted player like Nadal and other cc specialist, but big servers with less ability to play defense are at the disadvantage. While fast hc like the USO are more suited for power hitters and big servers.

Such as life.
 

LeoR

Banned
Murray, Novak, Soderling, Berdych are more experience too. These guys are due to win USO. And don’t forget Roddick, it’s his hometown event and he’s been there, done that.

Nadal is much better than the two last that you quote so he would obviously be the favorite. I think that Murray and Djokovic will be his main competitors but he can beat them. I don't believe in Roddick chance against Nadal.

2008 he 'just' became awesome on HC? In 2005 he won Canada, Madrid, and Beijing on HC, and made the finals of Miami.

He always was good on all surface, but now he is even better and has evolved his tactics a little bit to allow him to be better on hardcourt.

In second part of 2008- beginning of2009 he won Toronto, Olympics, AO and IW. If he had not been hurt he would have continued his progression. Now he is back at his best and I expect him to be better than in the past.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
In second part of 2008- beginning of2009 he won Toronto, Olympics, AO and IW. If he had not been hurt he would have continued his progression. Now he is back at his best and I expect him to be better than in the past.


To summarize:

Nadal is undefeated on hardcourts when he wins.

Vamos!
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Yeah it's going to be a great open. I can feel it. :)

Interesting move Murray made getting that wild card into the Farmer's Classic. It seems he wants the USO pretty badly. And for some reason, during Nadal's interview when the commentator was interviewing him after the match, Nadal said, speaking of Murray. "He's going to win one (major) soon, real soon." And, I don't know, but a funny feeling passed over me.

P.S.-I'm a woman, so I get these feelings, and I'm usually right (though I hope I'm wrong).
 

Radobg

Rookie
First of all, calm down. If you actually took the time, and, I don't know, read my posts, you would see that I rated Nadal as 2nd favorite behind Federer. To me the USO is wide open, there is no definite or clear favorite, but I'd rate Fed's chances higher than Nadal, and guys like Djokovic, Muzza, Sod, Rod and Berd are right there in the running as well. So I never said Rafa was not a favorite.

My post is simply in reaction to those who have said Rafa is clearly the favorite or definitely the favorite as of right now. There is more tennis to be played before the USO, so a lot can change as I said numerous times. If Nadal beats top 10 guys and wins either Canada or Cincy, then of course he could overtake Fed and be 'the' favorite heading into the USO. But as of RIGHT NOW, looking at Nad's recent history (and please stop it with the 'he was injured, hurt, sick, divorced excuses) he is not THE favorite ahead of Fed,and some would say that I'm being generous in rating him higher than Murray and Djokovic given their resumes at USO are both stronger than Nadal's.

And to me Rafa's wins at Wimby and RG have little bearing on his USO stock. He's won those events in the past, and won them in more impressive fashion than he did this year (see 2008). I don't buy into all the "he's more confident, more rested" rhetoric just yet. Until I see it, and see the results ON HC to warrant it, I cannot rate Nadal the favorite RIGHT NOW. Of course, come back after Canada and Cincy and Rafa sweeps through those like he swept the CC season and Wimby, and no one in their right mind would say he isn't the clear favorite. But RIGHT NOW, he is not.

I read your posts(in this thred)!And I repeat-You said in your first post that he is not a favorite!Sorry if I missunderstand something!You can read it again and see!
Fot the rates I agree with you!
I don't agree with the statistic that you showed to us,because IMO this statistic isn't showing the real capabilities of Nadal on hard courts!But if you think the oposite it's your right!
Anyway!Everyone have a diferent vew!Like I said before even if Rafa wins both Canada and Cincy he is not lock for the USO title!But even if his performans there are not that good for me he will continue to be one of the favorites to win in New York!!
 
I read your posts(in this thred)!And I repeat-You said in your first post that he is not a favorite!Sorry if I missunderstand something!You can read it again and see!
Fot the rates I agree with you!
I don't agree with the statistic that you showed to us,because IMO this statistic isn't showing the real capabilities of Nadal on hard courts!But if you think the oposite it's your right!
Anyway!Everyone have a diferent vew!Like I said before even if Rafa wins both Canada and Cincy he is not lock for the USO title!But even if his performans there are not that good for me he will continue to be one of the favorites to win in New York!!
Hmm...read it again.

Now, please understand, I am not making this thread to bash Nadal in any way, only to point out the facts. Nadal is not a given to win the US Open, and it is my estimation that he is not the favorite due to these facts mentioned.

If Nadal rectifies this in the tournaments before the US Open, with wins over top 10 opposition, then maybe he should in fact be looked at as favorite. But as of right now, Nadal's record on HC does not stand up to being the favorite to win the US Open.

It is very rare that you win any Grand Slam without defeating a top 10 player, and at Nadal's weakest slam, top 10 players have been his achilles' heel - he is 0-3 vs top 10 players at Flushing Meadows.

Notice the bolded and underlined the word 'the'. Nadal is not 'the' favorite, he is not the #1 favorite right now. That was my point. The title is not Nadal's to lose, as the phrase goes.
 

The-Champ

Legend
Look fella, read my previous post and I said if Rafa gets wins over top 10 guys and wins either Cincy or Canada he should be the favorite at the Open. I even rate him as of now 2nd behind Fed and ahead of Djoker, Murray, and Rod, all of whom have better USO records than Nadal. All of you Nadal fans need to stop being so sensitive and bashing anyone who doesn't proclaim Rafa to be king and win every title under the sun, as if it's some affront to your integrity.


Hey, you can bash him any way you want, I don't give a ****. I said he didn't stand a chance, didn't I? I like Nadal's game win or lose. It seems to me that you're the one who can't handle it when people believe Nadal to be the favorite. Why do you care so much?
 
Hey, you can bash him any way you want, I don't give a ****. I said he didn't stand a chance, didn't I? I like Nadal's game win or lose. It seems to me that you're the one who can't handle it when people believe Nadal to be the favorite. Why do you care so much?

Because the facts do not back up that statement. And if you think using facts to make an argument = bashing Nadal, you're even more up his arse than I thought you were. Make sure it's confortable in there, Butt, Cesc, and veronique also reside in there from what I see.
 

The-Champ

Legend
Rafa is losing to Falla, no? This time Falla no falla:shock:


Rafa is probably winning the AO though. Notice how he is winning all the slams that Federer isn't arsed to defend. FO/Wimbledon/AO.

He will lose to anyone he faces in the first round. :)

Listen to TMF or Jamesblakefan, they know what they are talking about.

Rafa has won his last slam at wimbledon this year.


/close this thread.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
I read your posts(in this thred)!And I repeat-You said in your first post that he is not a favorite!Sorry if I missunderstand something!You can read it again and see!
Fot the rates I agree with you!
I don't agree with the statistic that you showed to us,because IMO this statistic isn't showing the real capabilities of Nadal on hard courts!But if you think the oposite it's your right!
Anyway!Everyone have a diferent vew!Like I said before even if Rafa wins both Canada and Cincy he is not lock for the USO title!But even if his performans there are not that good for me he will continue to be one of the favorites to win in New York!!

Everyone does have a right to their opinion. Keep expressing yours, it's very refreshing.

Who are your other favorite players?
 

rovex

Legend
Hey, you can bash him any way you want, I don't give a ****. I said he didn't stand a chance, didn't I? I like Nadal's game win or lose. It seems to me that you're the one who can't handle it when people believe Nadal to be the favorite. Why do you care so much?

Who do you prefer, Nadal or Soderling?
 

The-Champ

Legend
Because the facts do not back up that statement. And if you think using facts to make an argument = bashing Nadal, you're even more up his arse than I thought you were. Make sure it's confortable in there, Butt, Cesc, and veronique also reside in there from what I see.


show me the facts menopausing woman!!
 

Radobg

Rookie
Everyone does have a right to their opinion. Keep expressing yours, it's very refreshing.

Who are your other favorite players?

Murray,Nalbandian,Verdasko,Djokovic.Baghdatis,Hewitt....but I like and respect almost everybody in the tour:)!
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
I am eager to see how nadal does against djokovic at the Open.

But this current novak has a good chance of losing to murray, berdych, soderling, roddick, verdasco, tsonga and could be in trouble against kohlschreiber, donald young, gulbis etc. I don't really see novak making this open final.
Hard is a way better surface for him than grass. I expect him to do well in Cincy as usual. Actually, if Fed cannot step it up, I would give Djoko as the favorite for Cincy especially in the absence of Delpo. Murray has been very vulnerable to Fish recently and Fish seems to be in great form right now. I still see Querrey and Isner as minor league. I can see Sod or Berdych create an upset but not winning the title. Rafa is always a force, never a favorite in Cincy or USO but impossible to discard either. You just know he could find a way to pull it off at any time.
At USO, it's gonna be 1 of the 4: Nadal, Djokovic, Murray or Fed (Fed's form is abysmal but he could always pull a Sampras at USO). Noone else is ready for winning a major IMO.
 
..then is my gramma mistake!I apologies!

No problem. I actually have no problem with what you were saying, just was upset that you misinterpreted my post(s). I am not saying that Nadal has no shot at the Open, and anyone who takes me as saying that (not directed at you) obviously has major reading comprehension problems.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Murray,Nalbandian,Verdasko,Djokovic.Baghdatis,Hewitt....but I like and respect almost everybody in the tour:)!

I like all of them too, except I don't know Nalbandian well enough. Probably because it seems like he's never on the tour long enough to really get a feel for him or his personality. He'll come back, play lights out, then he'll slump, then he'll go out, then he'll be back. He seems to be off the tour as much as Haas, but Haas has been around longer, so I'm more familiar with him.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is much better than the two last that you quote so he would obviously be the favorite. I think that Murray and Djokovic will be his main competitors but he can beat them. I don't believe in Roddick chance against Nadal.

Did you watch Fed vs. Soderling in a thrilling 4 set last year? Soderling was playing great and I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t beat rafa easy too. Del Potro beat Nadal 2, 2, 2. There’s no way DP would have humbled Soderling in that fashion. In fact, nadal might not even beat Cilic, who played a fine tourney until getting eliminated by DP in 4 sets.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Nadal is much better than the two last that you quote so he would obviously be the favorite. I think that Murray and Djokovic will be his main competitors but he can beat them. I don't believe in Roddick chance against Nadal.



He always was good on all surface, but now he is even better and has evolved his tactics a little bit to allow him to be better on hardcourt.

In second part of 2008- beginning of2009 he won Toronto, Olympics, AO and IW. If he had not been hurt he would have continued his progression. Now he is back at his best and I expect him to be better than in the past.

I totally agree. Roddick (if you mean the USO) has little chance against Rafa in a best of 5.
Nadal's main rivals this year are Murray and Djoko and Murray is prone to unexpected upsets (Verdasco in AO, Cilic in USO, Fish...) while Djoko is a question mark against Rafa in a best of 5 on any surface, especially with his health issues. Add to that Fed's struggles with form, it seems an excellent year for Rafa to strike at USO. It's the best shot he's had so far anyway and hopefully he does well enough in the 2 masters to enjoy a high level of confidence on top of everything else.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Did you watch Fed vs. Soderling in a thrilling 4 set last year? Soderling was playing great and I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t beat rafa easy too. Del Potro beat Nadal 2, 2, 2. There’s no way DP would have humbled Soderling in that fashion. In fact, nadal might not even beat Cilic, who played a fine tourney until getting eliminated by DP in 4 sets.
Cilic is always dangerous especially in the early rounds. He still lacks experience on the big stage IMO.
 

Radobg

Rookie
I like all of them too, except I don't know Nalbandian well enough. Probably because it seems like he's never on the tour long enough to really get a feel for him or his personality. He'll come back, play lights out, then he'll slump, then he'll go out, then he'll be back. He seems to be off the tour as much as Haas, but Haas has been around longer, so I'm more familiar with him.

I didn't had opportunity to watch Haas enough!But Nalbandian has always been one of my favorit players!Pity that he is at the end of his career and will hardly be capable to play high quality tennis after so many problems lately!But I will never forget his matches at Madrid2007 and Paris2007!Perhaps one of the highest level of tennis I've ever seen!
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Interesting move Murray made getting that wild card into the Farmer's Classic. It seems he wants the USO pretty badly. And for some reason, during Nadal's interview when the commentator was interviewing him after the match, Nadal said, speaking of Murray. "He's going to win one (major) soon, real soon." And, I don't know, but a funny feeling passed over me.

P.S.-I'm a woman, so I get these feelings, and I'm usually right (though I hope I'm wrong).
Bad move to add more tournaments to his season if he wants the USO that bad. He'll burn out before the end.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I totally agree. Roddick (if you mean the USO) has little chance against Rafa in a best of 5.

Roddick beat your boy in Miami. Certainly he has more of a “little chance” than the way you put it. Plus, the 20k crowd will be on Roddick’s side. Big difference.
 

LeoR

Banned
Did you watch Fed vs. Soderling in a thrilling 4 set last year? Soderling was playing great and I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t beat rafa easy too. Del Potro beat Nadal 2, 2, 2. There’s no way DP would have humbled Soderling in that fashion. In fact, nadal might not even beat Cilic, who played a fine tourney until getting eliminated by DP in 4 sets.

I already told you that last year was completely irrelevant. Last year Soderling beat Nadal and this year he got taken to school by the spanish. Nadal is a whole different animal when not injured, fully fit and mentaly focused with confidence. This is the state he is right now. If his knees resist, he has all the tools.

I totally agree. Roddick (if you mean the USO) has little chance against Rafa in a best of 5.
Nadal's main rivals this year are Murray and Djoko and Murray is prone to unexpected upsets (Verdasco in AO, Cilic in USO, Fish...) while Djoko is a question mark against Rafa in a best of 5 on any surface, especially with his health issues. Add to that Fed's struggles with form, it seems an excellent year for Rafa to strike at USO. It's the best shot he's had so far anyway and hopefully he does well enough in the 2 masters to enjoy a high level of confidence on top of everything else.

We share the same opinio. I think Nadal will have confidence no matter what, remember he lost quickly at Doha before playing agreat OA. He will be very focused on his goal, but it would be cool if he founded his game at the 2 MS.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
Hard is a way better surface for him than grass. I expect him to do well in Cincy as usual. Actually, if Fed cannot step it up, I would give Djoko as the favorite for Cincy especially in the absence of Delpo. Murray has been very vulnerable to Fish recently and Fish seems to be in great form right now. I still see Querrey and Isner as minor league. I can see Sod or Berdych create an upset but not winning the title. Rafa is always a force, never a favorite in Cincy or USO but impossible to discard either. You just know he could find a way to pull it off at any time.
At USO, it's gonna be 1 of the 4: Nadal, Djokovic, Murray or Fed (Fed's form is abysmal but he could always pull a Sampras at USO). Noone else is ready for winning a major IMO.

The fall hard court season is most important for fed. and djokovic. That's who all the other players are going to be watching for weakness or in this case continued weakness.
 

Radobg

Rookie
No problem. I actually have no problem with what you were saying, just was upset that you misinterpreted my post(s). I am not saying that Nadal has no shot at the Open, and anyone who takes me as saying that (not directed at you) obviously has major reading comprehension problems.

Don't be upset:)!This is internet forum!Mistakes heppen!Especially with someone like me!English is not my birth language and sometimes I can misinterpret something!Important is to find where I had a mistake and to fix it:)!
I actually agree with most of your post just this statistic bother me!I just don't like to use someone's poor period to make a conclusions about how good he is in reality!
 
That plus Nadal was still in his slump. Roddick and Ljubicic have very little chance to beat Nadal now.

Roddick has a 3-2 h2h over Nadal on HC, and a better record at the USO than Nadal. To say he has little shot in a match there would seem to be...how do you say....not accurate.

BTW, love how the Nadal fans talk until they're blue in the face about Rafa's h2h vs Federer, but me bringing up Nadal's h2h's vs top 10 on HC, top 10 at the USO, Roddick and Djokovic on HC, now I'm a basher, and h2h is irrelevant. :?
 
Last edited:
Top