Nadal vs Top 10 Players on HC (since Winning Indian Wells 2009)

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
you cannot believe how much cleaner this forum looks when you put that thing in ignore list!

Same way I feel about you.

JBF still hurt, I see.

Two for the price of one! Priceless!

haha.gif
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Stupid thread. Half-injured Nadal made good results in all hardcourt tournaments, that's why he only lost to top 10 players. Federer lost to clowns like Benneteau, Baghdatis, Berdych in early rounds...so yeah his record against top 10 will be better because he wasn't good enough to play against them LOL!
Nadal is a hardcourt Slam champion, Olympic champion and multiple Masters Series champion. Nadal has achieved more on hardcourts than Djokovic,Murray,Del Potro,Davydenko,Roddick,Soderling,Hewitt and Tsonga. All these players are inferior to Nadal on HC at this point. Also, all these players were lucky not to play Nadal on clay or grass as Nadal would have destroyed them and head to head would be different. They're only good enough to play against Nadal on hardcourts.
Off-topic, Blake should retire.

Great post!
 
Stupid thread. Half-injured Nadal made good results in all hardcourt tournaments, that's why he only lost to top 10 players. Federer lost to clowns like Benneteau, Baghdatis, Berdych in early rounds...so yeah his record against top 10 will be better because he wasn't good enough to play against them LOL!
Nadal is a hardcourt Slam champion, Olympic champion and multiple Masters Series champion. Nadal has achieved more on hardcourts than Djokovic,Murray,Del Potro,Davydenko,Roddick,Soderling,Hewitt and Tsonga. All these players are inferior to Nadal on HC at this point. Also, all these players were lucky not to play Nadal on clay or grass as Nadal would have destroyed them and head to head would be different. They're only good enough to play against Nadal on hardcourts.
Off-topic, Blake should retire.

Funny how these inferior players (Djokovic, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Hewitt) have winning records h2h over Nadal on HC. :shock:

And this thread is about HC, Munron. Grass and clay doesn't matter as far as how Nadal will do at the US Open.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Not emotionally involved my ass. Did you ever stop by the Nadal news thread? :lol: :lol:

I'm not emotionally involved. I like Rafa. I think he's handsome, talented, and adorable.

But, I also know how to seperate it from fanaticism and getting angry at people, calling them out of their name, and being otherwise insulting. When I start calling people trolls, idiots, morons, things, etc. because I can't control my emotions, contact me.

On the other hand, if you support people like that, then this post was a waste.

BTW, have you seen me initiating conversation with them?
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
you really think that you take the arguments of people with these posts dont you?...
sorry.. it's not highscholl anymore!

and as far as you being balanced and fair, the fact that you write huge chunks of text only makes you slightly more boring than Samboy, Mungo or GJ011, whereas in the fanaticism behaviour you are no better then them! or worse dare i say.

but you might end saying they are great posters because like you they have their heads stuck in Rafas arse too!

I think we are on a public forum where everyone can state their opinions. If everyone is respectful there would be no arguments. The fact that you always have something negative to say to me, says more about you than it does me. I am more than happy to not communicate with you, and from this point on, this is the way it will be. Who cares if I'm fair and balanced? Is that a requirement of the forum? Are you? I couldn't possibly bore you more than you bore me. But every chance you get you post some snide remark to me, piggyback on everything anyone says to me, and you've done that for four years. Not to mention, how irrationally upset you get sometimes when people like Rafa, because you only target Rafa fans that I can see. All because they don't share your view.

So please don't speak to me of high school, because in that respect you are the valedictorian.

Why do you, or anyone else care who I am a fan of? How does that possibly affect you? Did you say high school?

THE NERVE!
 
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meg0529

Guest
I think we are on a public forum where everyone can state their opinions. If everyone is respectful there would be no arguments. The fact that you always have something negative to say to me, says more about you than it does me. I am more than happy to not communicate with you, and from this point on, this is the way it will be. Who cares if I'm fair and balanced? Is that a requirement of the forum? Are you? I couldn't possibly bore you more than you bore me. But every chance you get you post some snide remark to me, piggyback on anyone who says to me, and you've done that for four years.

So please don't speak to me of high school, because in that respect you are the valedictorian.

Why do you, or anyone else care who I am of? Did you say high school?

THE NERVE!

Vamoosss

10 stars!
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
The Truth - I like what you write! Don't worry about what others say, there is not even any point in responding really. :)
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
The Truth - I like what you write! Don't worry about what others say, there is not even any point in responding really. :)

I know, but four years of this unprovoked garbage gets a bit tiring at times. But, I will try to follow your advice.

Thank you!
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Funny how these inferior players (Djokovic, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Hewitt) have winning records h2h over Nadal on HC. :shock:

And this thread is about HC, Munron. Grass and clay doesn't matter as far as how Nadal will do at the US Open.

Very good post! :) I think the poster forgot that little detail! This is the US Open, Nadal's worst surface, he certainly isn't a God on it, like he is in Paris. In fact, a lot of players actually look forward to playing him there, because they know he is beatable, and this is their chance to get a piece of Nadal's scalp. :twisted:
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I know, but four years of this unprovoked garbage gets a bit tiring at times. But, I will try to follow your advice.

Thank you!

Truth - I like you, because you stand your ground. :) But you don't need to constantly defend yourself against anyone. You have every right to express yourself, and as long as you are not directly insulting anyone, which no one should do, keep your chin up!
 
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srinrajesh

Guest
2009 Miami QF - vs #7 Juan Martin Del Potro L 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(3)
2009 Canada QF - vs #6 Juan Martin Del Potro L 6-7(5), 1-6
2009 Cincinnati SF - vs #4 Novak Djokovic L 1-6, 4-6
2009 US Open SF - vs #6 Juan Martin Del Potro L 2-6, 2-6, 2-6
2009 Shanghai F - vs #8 Nikolay Davydenko L 6-7(3), 3-6
2009 Paris QF - vs #9 JW Tsonga W 7-5, 7-5
2009 Paris SF - vs #3 Novak Djokovic L 2-6, 3-6
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #9 Robin Soderling L 4-6, 4-6
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #7 Nikolay Davydenko L 1-6, 6-7(4)
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #3 Novak Djokovic (SRB) L 6-7(5), 3-6
2010 Qatar F - vs #6 Nikolay Davydenko L 6-0, 6-7(8 ), 4-6
2010 Australian Open QF - vs #4 Andy Murray L 3-6, 6-7(2), 0-3 RET
2010 Miami QF - vs #10 JW Tsonga W 6-3, 6-2
2010 Miami SF - vs #8 Andy Roddick L 6-4, 3-6, 3-6

In the 16 months since defeating Andy Murray to win the 2009 Indian Wells title, Nadal has yet to win a title on HC and only has reached 2 finals on the surface in 10 tournaments.

-Nadal is 2-12 vs top 10 players on HC during this period.
-Nadal is 0-11 vs top 8 players on HC during this period.
-In these 14 matches, Nadal won a total of 7 sets.

Now, please understand, I am not making this thread to bash Nadal in any way, only to point out the facts. Nadal is not a given to win the US Open, and it is my estimation that he is not the favorite due to these facts mentioned.

If Nadal rectifies this in the tournaments before the US Open, with wins over top 10 opposition, then maybe he should in fact be looked at as favorite. But as of right now, Nadal's record on HC does not stand up to being the favorite to win the US Open.

It is very rare that you win any Grand Slam without defeating a top 10 player, and at Nadal's weakest slam, top 10 players have been his achilles' heel - he is 0-3 vs top 10 players at Flushing Meadows.

Interesting stats but we cant take only the worst period of a guy's career to show the H2H.. also best of 3 sets is completely different from best of 5 sets.

On current form I would doubt if some of the players wud beat Nadal in best of 5 sets even on HC: Davydenko, Djokovic, Delpo.

Djokovic leads Nadal 7-3 HC and indoors but but they have never met in a best of 5 set match

Davydenko leads 5-1 HC and indoors (incl. 1 match Nadal retired after first set) on Hard courts but they have never met in a best of 5 set match

Delpo leads 3-2 HC and indoors but since he is coming out of injury i wud doubt he wud have chance to beat Nadal.

I wud say these players have a definite chance but wud be beaten in tough match by in form Nadal.

The others with good chance include Murray who i wud rate as the most dangerous opponent for Nadal at USO with Federer and Soderling behind him.

The next rung wud be the big hitters like Berdych, Cilic, Roddick, Isner who mite be able to surprise him an a great serving day.
 
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srinrajesh

Guest
I agree. Nadal is undefeated when "in form" and when he wins.

Vamos!

reasonably in form --Rafa around 75%- 80% in form should account for most of the top 10 while he needs to be about 90% of peak form to beat Murray, Federer, Djoker, Soderling at their best..
 

vortex1

Banned
Nadal isn't losing to Murray/Djoker/Fed/Soderling/Berdych on hard this year. He is super confident and healthy and therefore almost unbeatable. Bringing up past losses means very little as has been proven by Fed during his QFs in RG and Wimbledon.
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
reasonably in form --Rafa around 75%- 80% in form should account for most of the top 10 while he needs to be about 90% of peak form to beat Murray, Federer, Djoker, Soderling at their best..

Stop pulling numbers out of your ***.


Surely Nadal only needs 60% to account for most of the top 10, and 61% of peak form to beat Murray, Fed, Djoker and Sod at their very best. :evil::evil::evil:

there is a 30% of chance that 60% nadal is going 55% vs top 10 whereas his volleying skills are 29% above the 17% of....

i love stats. but Bud wont teach me...
 

LeoR

Banned
Nadal isn't losing to Murray/Djoker/Fed/Soderling/Berdych on hard this year. He is super confident and healthy and therefore almost unbeatable. Bringing up past losses means very little as has been proven by Fed during his QFs in RG and Wimbledon.

Nadal haters live in a fantasy world where his last hardcourt results after his injury are relevant for the upcomings tounaments. They are clueless.
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
Nadal haters live in a fantasy world where his last hardcourt results after his injury are relevant for the upcomings tounaments. They are clueless.

they are 35% clueless about Discrediting 95% nadal on 54,5% hardcourts and usinga 33% fuzzy yellow ball!

this has been one long July.. we need toronto ASAP ****s & etes have been unberable lately
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
agreed, even gorecki must be gettting tired of his own sarcasm!

how would you know? unless you are another ghost coming form ban town...

maybe a click on thered triagular button on the left would be a good prehemptive measure.
 
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srinrajesh

Guest
Stop pulling numbers out of your ***.


Surely Nadal only needs 60% to account for most of the top 10, and 61% of peak form to beat Murray, Fed, Djoker and Sod at their very best. :evil::evil::evil:

well just mentioned that he doesnt need to be on peak form to beat the top10even on HC.. nos are only an indication of that
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
reasonably in form --Rafa around 75%- 80% in form should account for most of the top 10 while he needs to be about 90% of peak form to beat Murray, Federer, Djoker, Soderling at their best..


Like I said, Nadal is 100% undefeated when he wins 100% of the time.

vamos!
 
Nadal haters live in a fantasy world where his last hardcourt results after his injury are relevant for the upcomings tounaments. They are clueless.

Nadal fans live in a fantasy world where anytime he loses he is injured, and Nadal should be favored at a tournament he's never made the final in and never beaten a top 10 player at.
 

dmt

Hall of Fame
I dont think it matters who's the favourite, the rogers cup is coming soon, we'll find out soon
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
Nadal fans live in a fantasy world where anytime he loses he is injured, and Nadal should be favored at a tournament he's never made the final in and never beaten a top 10 player at.

Agreed, this Nadal is injured scheisse really needs to stop.

I am really shocked they haven't come out with threads such as "Imagine if Nadal played right handed".
 

LeoR

Banned
Nadal fans live in a fantasy world where anytime he loses he is injured, and Nadal should be favored at a tournament he's never made the final in and never beaten a top 10 player at.

It worked for AO and Wimbledon( he had only beat Djokovic by retirement) so it is not fantasy.
 
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bolo

G.O.A.T.
I have no trouble favoring someone who's never won the tournament. Who was the favorite at the 2004 AO?

Not always is the favorite the one who's won the tournament once or more times before. :)
 
I have no trouble favoring someone who's never won the tournament. Who was the favorite at the 2004 AO?

Not always is the favorite the one who's won the tournament once or more times before. :)

2004 AO? The top 4 seeds were all slam champs. (Roddick, Fed, Agassi, Ferrero)

And please, reading comprehension for all of you. I stated Nadal is a favorite, I put him behind Fed as 2nd favorite. USO this year is wide open, there is no definite favorite or lock and you can make an argument for Fed, Djoker, Murray, and Roddick to be favorites as well, and some of those have stronger arguments than Nadal.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
2004 AO? The top 4 seeds were all slam champs. (Roddick, Fed, Agassi, Ferrero)

And please, reading comprehension for all of you. I stated Nadal is a favorite, I put him behind Fed as 2nd favorite. USO this year is wide open, there is no definite favorite or lock and you can make an argument for Fed, Djoker, Murray, and Roddick to be favorites as well, and some of those have stronger arguments than Nadal.

THat's ok I was just playing off your "never making a final or beating a top 10 player" line. In 2004 many had fed. as the favorite (meaning person with the highest chance of winning). Up to that point fed. hadn't been in the finals of an AO and hadn't beaten a top 10 player at the AO or at the USO in 2002 or in 2003 (didn't look further back). So just noting there is at least one instance where your criteria didn't hold. Fed. won that tournament quite easily.
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
THat's ok I was just playing off your "never making a final or beating a top 10 player" line. In 2004 many had fed. as the favorite (meaning person with the highest chance of winning). Up to that point fed. hadn't been in the finals of an AO and hadn't beaten a top 10 player at the AO or at the USO in 2002 or in 2003 (didn't look further back). So just noting there is at least one instance where your criteria didn't hold. Fed. won that tournament quite easily.

However he did utterly dominate this thing called the Year End Championship which was on hard court.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is clearly the favorite to win for crying out loud. He is the number 1 player in the world right now, and is hands down playing better tennis than anyone. Period.

Does this mean he will win the USO? No. Has he done well here in the past? yes. Two semis is better than nearly everyone on tour.

Do more players in this tournament have a better chance of knocking him out as compared to surfaces such as clay/grass? Yes.

None of this changes the fact that he is the favorite to win it.

Vamos!
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
I just verified. Before federer winning the AO in 2004 he had never beaten a top 10 player at the AO or the US open and he had never made the finals at the AO.
 
J

Jchurch

Guest
Yep that was a great tournament for him. I remember watching that well.

So wouldn't you say that their belief in him winning the 2004 AO was based upon his performance at the YEC? He utterly dominated everyone in Houston. Nadal has never done so on hard court let alone against the top 8 in the world. That is why people are doubting him until the US Open
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
So wouldn't you say that their belief in him winning the 2004 AO was based upon his performance at the YEC? He utterly dominated everyone in Houston. Nadal has never done so on hard court let alone against the top 8 in the world. That is why people are doubting him until the US Open

I am not disagreeing with JBF's general statement about nadal's chances, although I myself don't have federer as the favorite like JBF does. I have written several times in the last couple of weeks that I thought nadal was no better than 3rd in line for the US open trophy.

Why was fed. the favorite at the AO even though he had never been in an AO final and had never beaten a top 10 player at the AO or USO? Was it the domination at the 2003 WTF? maybe, I would say that was less important than say his ranking, his improvement in fitness, his improvement in the backhand, his winning wimbledon etc. WTF is just one more tournament result, the other stuff is more important imo.
 
I am not disagreeing with JBF's general statement about nadal's chances, although I myself don't have federer as the favorite like JBF does. I have written several times in the last couple of weeks that I thought nadal was no better than 3rd in line for the US open trophy.

Why was fed. the favorite at the AO even though he had never been in an AO final and had never beaten a top 10 player at the AO or USO? Was it the domination at the 2003 WTF? maybe, I would say that was less important than say his ranking, his improvement in fitness, his improvement in the backhand, his winning wimbledon etc. WTF is just one more tournament result, the other stuff is more important imo.

Nadal's top 10 at USO record is a part of my argument. But combine that with his recent record vs top 10 on HC and his lack of HC title in 16 months and it's enough to knock him down a peg in my view, for now.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
2009 Miami QF - vs #7 Juan Martin Del Potro L 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(3)
2009 Canada QF - vs #6 Juan Martin Del Potro L 6-7(5), 1-6
2009 Cincinnati SF - vs #4 Novak Djokovic L 1-6, 4-6
2009 US Open SF - vs #6 Juan Martin Del Potro L 2-6, 2-6, 2-6
2009 Shanghai F - vs #8 Nikolay Davydenko L 6-7(3), 3-6
2009 Paris QF - vs #9 JW Tsonga W 7-5, 7-5
2009 Paris SF - vs #3 Novak Djokovic L 2-6, 3-6
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #9 Robin Soderling L 4-6, 4-6
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #7 Nikolay Davydenko L 1-6, 6-7(4)
2009 ATP World Tour Finals RR - vs #3 Novak Djokovic (SRB) L 6-7(5), 3-6
2010 Qatar F - vs #6 Nikolay Davydenko L 6-0, 6-7(8 ), 4-6
2010 Australian Open QF - vs #4 Andy Murray L 3-6, 6-7(2), 0-3 RET
2010 Miami QF - vs #10 JW Tsonga W 6-3, 6-2
2010 Miami SF - vs #8 Andy Roddick L 6-4, 3-6, 3-6
bump.

Add now
2010 Toronto SF - vs #4 Andy Murray L 3-6, 4-6

So my question is now back a few pages ago the earlier losses non counted because Nadal was going through his worst period of tennis, 2010 losses didn't count because Nadal was not at his best. What is it now? Nadal is 1-4 against the top 10 on hardcourts in 2010....

Jamesblakefan has a point and I think this week emphasized it guys like Murray, Djokovic and Federer are still ahead of him on the faster hardcourts though Fed will probably fail to beat Nadal because he always does but Murray and Djokovic and most likely Del Po if he was still around are probably ahead of him on the surface still. Murray was exposing Nadal today moving him all over the place and ripping down the line winners and Nadal looked a bit pissed. Nadal can do a lot to change it up but he needs to still tune up his hardcourt game a bit because it's not working against the top 10 anymore. There might be an actual reason Nadal hasn't won a hardcourt tournament since the start of 2009 and it is probably most likely his GAME.
 
Nadal once again showed today that it is impossible to place him as a 'clear' favorite or 'definite' favorite, like some such as Brad Gilbert placed him as recently as yesterday, to win the US Open. Can he win it? Of course he can. But history tells us that it is going to be a tough mountain for him to climb and not the given that some were making it out to be a few weeks ago.

Now he goes to Cincy, a place where he's never made the finals. Berdych a guy he's owned recently, in the QF, then Fed possibly in the SF. I think that Nadal has to make at least the SF of Cincy to gain the confidence he needs to win the USO.

People were saying stuff about Nadal being 'the most confident he's ever been'. If he loses again to another top 10 guy in Cincy, that confidence will be shaken and it will be awfully hard for him to win against a top 10 guy in NY where he's a) never beaten a top 10 opponent and b) never made a final.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
Nadal once again showed today that it is impossible to place him as a 'clear' favorite or 'definite' favorite, like some such as Brad Gilbert placed him as recently as yesterday, to win the US Open. Can he win it? Of course he can. But history tells us that it is going to be a tough mountain for him to climb and not the given that some were making it out to be a few weeks ago.

Now he goes to Cincy, a place where he's never made the finals. Berdych a guy he's owned recently, in the QF, then Fed possibly in the SF. I think that Nadal has to make at least the SF of Cincy to gain the confidence he needs to win the USO.

People were saying stuff about Nadal being 'the most confident he's ever been'. If he loses again to another top 10 guy in Cincy, that confidence will be shaken and it will be awfully hard for him to win against a top 10 guy in NY where he's a) never beaten a top 10 opponent and b) never made a final.

I agree some of what you say about nadal. How do you feel about your putting federer at the top after the last 4 matches?
 
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AM95

Hall of Fame
if nadal gets a fair draw, and not the kind of draw he's been getting at the past two majors, with clown players...then he'll lose once again, in the semi's if not earlier.
 

dmt

Hall of Fame
if nadal gets a fair draw, and not the kind of draw he's been getting at the past two majors, with clown players...then he'll lose once again, in the semi's if not earlier.

What clown draw. So facing Soderling, Murray and Berdych in a row is a "clown" draw?

Lol and Nadal doesnt need an "easy" draw at the french open. He is by far the greatest clay courter of his generation, look at the lopsided head to head records that he has on clay.

Youre just bitter that nadal has won two majors.

So appearently nadal beating soderling twice, murray and berdych is getting "clown" draws. Hillarious stuff.
 
I agree about nadal. How do you feel about your putting federer at the top after the last 4 matches?

Not sure. We all know Fed does better in the best of 5 matches, so him getting to the finals here considering that and his level of play says a lot. He's probably not going to win tomorrow, but I'd still put him and Murray above Nadal right now. Nadal is #3 now IMO, I had him at #2 favorite before, but Murray's run has given me a bit more faith in him than I had about 2 weeks ago.
 

dmt

Hall of Fame
AM95 IS just really bitter that he picked soderling to put nadal "out of his misery" but nadal ended up whipping sod. And how am95 calls it a clown draw lol
 

vortex1

Banned
if nadal gets a fair draw, and not the kind of draw he's been getting at the past two majors, with clown players...then he'll lose once again, in the semi's if not earlier.

A clown draw would be not facing a single top 10 player and getting Verdasco in a final... that's what pretty much happened with Federer's Wimbledon 2010, except his pigeon of choice was Roddick.
 
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