Nadal (Wimbledon 2008) vs Djokovic (Wimbledon 2011)

[NoleFam]

Not pertaining you to the topic, just out of curiosity. What do you think about the Rome 2006 final? I personally think that's the best match Roger and Rafa ever played.

I think it was an amazing match and definitely the best clay match ever played between them. It was early on so before the fear factor had set in on Rafa on clay and Federer had much more belief then. I wouldn't say it's the best match, quality wise, they have ever played between them since I would still rate 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 Australian Open over it but it is in my top 5 matches between them for sure.

 

[abmk]

Karlovic did have his best grass run that year and the differential from 2004 to 2009 makes sense but Roddick and Soderling? No. Both Granollers and Muller had better returning numbers against Soderling compared to Federer. Murray and Hewitt both had better returning numbers against Roddick; Chardy, Melzer, Hewitt and Murray all managed to break Roddick's serve at least twice but Federer went 16-14 in the 5th and could only break Roddick's serve once, yet his returning wasn't as poor as I'm making it out to be? No way.

Murray & Hewitt are both elite returners, both of whom are capable of returning Roddick's serve well. Its not a surprise that they got a slightly higher return points % than Federer did. Also Roddick's form in the QF though pretty good, was not as good as it was in the SF and F.

As far as Chardy/Melzer are concerned, Roddick wasn't anywhere near top form in the 1st 3 rounds. He only hit top form from the Berdych match in 4R.

As far as Soderling is concerned, he probably raised his level vs Federer (both serving and off the ground) (didn't watch his Granollers/Muller matches, I don't think you would have either).

 

[Enceladus]

Djokovic 2011, of course.

 

[justinjay]

It depends on a number of factors, one in their previous encounters and momentum. Like if Nadal goes in with his pre 2011 Wimbledon mentality to the match, if he were still on a 4 match losing streak to Djokovic, including 2 clay losses, he probably still loses, even though his 2008 form was better than 2011 and he had chances even in the 2011 match. If not for this 2008 Nadal would probably have a good shot, 2011 Nadal probably even would have if he were not coming in off 4 straight losses to Djokovic. 2014 and 2015 Djokovic is better than 2011 Djokovic on grass, and I dont think even that Djokovic is clearly better than Nadal's best (2010, 2008, maybe 2007) on grass. Djokovic is a bad match up for Nadal naturally though, even when he doesnt have a pyschological or recent momentum edge however. While grass isnt Djokovic's best surface either by any means, it also really emphasizes his serve and return serve combo edge on Nadal in a head to head match up, more than any other surface.

 

[justinjay]

Murray & Hewitt are both elite returners, both of whom are capable of returning Roddick's serve well. Its not a surprise that they got a slightly higher return points % than Federer did. Also Roddick's form in the QF though pretty good, was not as good as it was in the SF and F.

Hewitt and Murray are both better overall returners than Federer, but Federer is a better returner than both vs Roddick. I dont think anyone returns Roddick's serve better than Federer historically. Maybe Agassi.

 

[metsman]

From 2003-2008 Wimbledon, the worst Federer has ever done in returning against any opponent is Karlovic in 2004 where he won 29% of all return points. In 2009 Wimbledon, Federer went below that benchmark 3 times where he won 22% against Soderling, 26% against Karlovic and 28% against Roddick. Federer has never had worse returning numbers against Roddick since in 2003 he won 36% return points, in 2004 he won 39% and 2005 he won 41%. Yet some don't want to concede that Federer's return was not good in 2009? Step into the light guys.

Didn't face any big servers in 07 or 08 as Soderling was poor in the 08 match and Safin didn't really play well either year. Obviously his return was better 03-07 than 08 or 09, not sure what that proves unless you are saying his return in 2015 was as good as at his peak lmao. First bringing up 01 then 03-05...lol all over the place.

Saying 2015 Wimby Federer is better than 09 is saying some nonsense like 09 USO Djokovic is equal/better than 15 USO Djokovic and that's the nonsense you guys keep peddling to make your boy look good. Apparently, in Djokovic and Nadal land, only Djokovic and Nadal have select prime years 5 years apart, Federer meanwhile maintains his level for 15 years straight and even gets better as he approaches his mid/late 30s!

 

[abmk]

Hewitt and Murray are both better overall returners than Federer, but Federer is a better returner than both vs Roddick. I dont think anyone returns Roddick's serve better than Federer historically. Maybe Agassi.

true. Federer overall returned Roddick's serve better than Hewitt/Murray, but not at Wim 09.

 

[metsman]

Murray & Hewitt are both elite returners, both of whom are capable of returning Roddick's serve well. Its not a surprise that they got a slightly higher return points % than Federer did. Also Roddick's form in the QF though pretty good, was not as good as it was in the SF and F.

As far as Chardy/Melzer are concerned, Roddick wasn't anywhere near top form in the 1st 3 rounds. He only hit top form from the Berdych match in 4R.

As far as Soderling is concerned, he probably raised his level vs Federer (both serving and off the ground) (didn't watch his Granollers/Muller matches, I don't think you would have either).

Roddick was also more clutch in the final (and probably in better overall form as well), as mentioned, in 5 of 7 break points he hit an first serve/unreturnable serve which explains the difference in breaks.

 

[NoleFam]

Didn't face any big servers in 07 or 08 as Soderling was poor in the 08 match and Safin didn't really play well either year. Obviously his return was better 03-07 than 08 or 09, not sure what that proves unless you are saying his return in 2015 was as good as at his peak lmao. First bringing up 01 then 03-05...lol all over the place.

Saying 2015 Wimby Federer is better than 09 is saying some nonsense like 09 USO Djokovic is equal/better than 15 USO Djokovic and that's the nonsense you guys keep peddling to make your boy look good. Apparently, in Djokovic and Nadal land, only Djokovic and Nadal have select prime years 5 years apart, Federer meanwhile maintains his level for 15 years straight and even gets better as he approaches his mid/late 30s!

I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said anything about his return being better in 2015 than 2009 anywhere so it's clearly in your head. I brought up 01? Where? I only talked about years between 2003 and 2009, and 2012 when talking about his return comparison. I think his return was terrible in 2009 and listed all the stats that prove it. This argument is like 2 weeks ago so I thought it was done and dusted by now anyway.

 

[metsman]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said anything about his return being better in 2015 than 2009 anywhere so it's clearly in your head. I brought up 01? Where? I only talked about years between 2003 and 2009, and 2012 when talking about his return comparison. I think his return was terrible in 2009 and listed all the stats that prove it. This argument is like 2 weeks ago so I thought it as done and dusted by now anyway.

Oh I think another poster was bringing up the 09/15 stuff.