Nadal's 2017, WTFs and YE #1

Fedberg20

Semi-Pro
Meanwhile will some one enlighten some of the dull headed people here that McEnroe, Connors, Wilander, Edberg,Becker, Courier, Sampras, Agassi, Nadal have been the worlds best players at some point of time and they have multiple Davis cup titles
But only Wilander, Courier and Nadal don't have a WTF title - interesting, right? In any case, if you are going to blow the trumpet in the significance of the Davis Cup, you are at least a decade too late. Maybe even two. Right now, WTF is in a different galaxy importance-wise.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
But only Wilander, Courier and Nadal don't have a WTF title - interesting, right? In any case, if you are going to blow the trumpet in the significance of the Davis Cup, you are at least a decade too late. Maybe even two. Right now, WTF is in a different galaxy importance-wise.
Davis Cup is no longer relevant as Federer has won that now. ;)
 

Benben245

Banned
How certain are we that ALL his supposedly injury claims are legit?
Ha, I said in my post I was not going to go there as it would hijack the thread in my opinion. It's just very interesting his knees have flared up almost the exact same time of year every year he has had layoffs. I'm surprised his knees have never caused him to miss a French Open.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Ha, I said in my post I was not going to go there as it would hijack the thread in my opinion. It's just very interesting his knees have flared up almost the exact same time of year every year he has had layoffs. I'm surprised his knees have never caused him to miss a French Open.
Its not that strange with that kind of an injury that late season its worse.
Clay easier on his knees as higher bounce.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Its not that strange with that kind of an injury that late season its worse.
Clay easier on his knees as higher bounce.
Generally I think we have to believe all players when they say they are injured. Otherwise we just get into the silly game of "my favourite player never tells an untruth but everyone else does." So if Nadal says he's injured then he is and if Fed says he's injured then he is.

I'm sure all players have been diplomatic with the truth at times.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Generally I think we have to believe all players when they say they are injured. Otherwise we just get into the silly game of "my favourite player never tells an untruth but everyone else does." So if Nadal says he's injured then he is and if Fed says he's injured then he is.

I'm sure all players have been diplomatic with the truth at times.
Yes. I actually think they say they are injured less times then what they actually are.
You could see Rafa served worse in Paris, he didnt want to put weight on the knee. Resulted in lots of DFs. Federers serving in Basel was below Shanghai. He indeed had some problems w his back.
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
And? What will change if he wins it once? It will still look like a fluke. Winning 5 or 6 times (like Djokovic and Federer did) is a great achievement. One win will not be an achievement at all.
Erm so one French Open is a fluke right?
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
What? He fell down. The fact is if Olympics were so important he would have skipped events leading up to it, but he didn't! LOLLLLL. Like clay this year, it's a meaningless surface so he skipped it. Same with Olympics ;)
The fact is:
JULY 26, 2016: ¤¤ More Roger Federer announced Tuesday that he would miss the rest of the tennis season, including the Rio Olympics and the United States Open, to rehabilitate a knee injury.
Federer tore the meniscus in his left knee while running a bath for his twin daughters a day after losing in the semifinals of the Australian Open. In February, he had surgery, the first of his 18-year career.
“The doctors advised that if I want to play on the ATP World Tour injury free for another few years, as I intend to do, I must give both my knee and body the proper time to fully recover, ” Federer said in a statement.¤¤
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/sports/tennis/roger-federer-will-miss-the-rest-of-the-season.html
 
he also pulled out of a WTF final!

don't throw stones in glass houses :rolleyes:
What is more important while choosing: winning an event for yourself for the seventh time but with lower chances to succeed or winning a team event for your country for the first time with a higher chance to succeed?

Hmmm.

:cool:
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
What is more important: winning an event for yourself for the seventh time or winning a team event for your country for the first time?

Hmmm.

:cool:
Singles Olympic Gold is not a 'team event'.

either way, I highly doubt Federer would have skipped any final he made it to in a big event besides the WTF.
 
Singles Olympic Gold is not a 'team event'.

either way, I highly doubt Federer would have skipped any final he made it to in a big event besides the WTF.
I only addressed the rather limited view that, since he skipped two events, the decision was influenced by the same set of circumstances.

Your last sentence is a pure speculation in which I am not interested.

:cool:
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I only addressed the rather limited view that, since he skipped two events, the decision was influenced by the same set of circumstances.

Your last sentence is a pure speculation in which I am not interested.

:cool:
actually, my last sentence in referenced post is fully supported by history. Federer has never skipped/defaulted/pulled-out of any final of a 'big event' besides the WTF.

I think that pretty much sums up the intrinsic importance of the WTF in Federer's eyes.

just this year we saw Federer compete in the Canada Master's final even though he was physical ailing and had the USO coming up right after.
 
actually, my last sentence in referenced post is fully supported by history. Federer has never skipped/defaulted/pulled-out of any final of a 'big event' besides the WTF.

I think that pretty much sums up the intrinsic importance of the WTF in Federer's eyes.

just this year we saw Federer compete in the Canada Master's final even though he was physical ailing and had the USO coming up right after.
Federer has withdrawn from a handful of matches in his entire illustrious career.

The chances of being a withdraw before a final?

Hmmm.

USO "coming up right after Montreal"?

NUFF SAID about your argumentation!

:cool:
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Federer has withdrawn from a handful of matches in his entire illustrious career.

The chances of being a withdraw before a final?

Hmmm.

USO "coming up right after Montreal"?

NUFF SAID about your argumentation!

:cool:
uhm, the USO was Federer's next tournament after Canada, correct.

if 'right after' offends you too much, you can replace it with 'a couple of weeks' in your mind.

obviously, Federer's back was affecting him at the USO. so him playing Canada may have had a significant impact on his chances at another GS, 3 GS year, and another YE#1 (which would have given Federer several more records). alas that didn't happen...
 
uhm, the USO was Federer's next tournament after Canada, correct.

if 'right after' offends you too much, you can replace it with 'a couple of weeks' in your mind.

obviously, Federer's back was affecting him at the USO. so him playing Canada may have had a significant impact on his chances at another GS, 3 GS year, and another YE#1 (which would have given Federer several more records). alas that didn't happen...
It is irrelevant which was Federer's next tournament.

What is relevant is that you intentionally avoid the real problem here (well actually trying to obscure it with that sad "right after")which is the time to deal with a potential health issue.

For the Davis Cup final: 7 days
For USO: 14 days
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
It is irrelevant which was Federer's next tournament.

What is relevant is that you intentionally avoid the real problem here (well actually trying to obscure it with that sad "right after")which is the time to deal with a potential health issue.

For the Davis Cup final: 7 days
For USO: 14 days
sorry, but I really was not following the genesis of your post I originally quoted.

I was just using Federer skipping a WTF final to show the real relative significance of that event; even as compared to the Olympics - which you cited Federer skipping (the entire event).

'time to deal with a potential health issue'; was not at all on my mind.
 
sorry, but I really was not following the genesis of your post I originally quoted.

I was just using Federer skipping a WTF final to show the real relative significance of that event; even as compared to the Olympics - which you cited Federer skipping (the entire event).

'time to deal with a potential health issue'; was not at all on my mind.
You expect that anyone would believe that you forgot what caused the WTF withdrawal, especially when it just happens so that you constructed your argument around likening two events but skipping the main difference between them and even trying to obscure the said difference?

NUFF SAID!
 

Tennisanity

Legend
The fact is:
JULY 26, 2016: ¤¤ More Roger Federer announced Tuesday that he would miss the rest of the tennis season, including the Rio Olympics and the United States Open, to rehabilitate a knee injury.
Federer tore the meniscus in his left knee while running a bath for his twin daughters a day after losing in the semifinals of the Australian Open. In February, he had surgery, the first of his 18-year career.
“The doctors advised that if I want to play on the ATP World Tour injury free for another few years, as I intend to do, I must give both my knee and body the proper time to fully recover, ” Federer said in a statement.¤¤
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/sports/tennis/roger-federer-will-miss-the-rest-of-the-season.html
Yes the knee was injured in January after which he came back and played many tournaments. If Olympics were so important he wouldn't played those tourneys and rested up for them, but he didn't ;) Eat it :)
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
You expect that anyone would believe that you forgot what caused the WTF withdrawal, especially when it just happens so that you constructed your argument around likening two events but skipping the main difference between them and even trying to obscure the said difference?

NUFF SAID!
I really don't get what you're talking about.

skipping a final is completely different than skipping an entire event.

if you entered a tournament a got to the final and then chose not to compete in said final, that shows you care appreciably less about that tournament than if you had just skipped the entire thing all together.

Federer would have never skipped a slam final or SOG final or even a masters final (as shown by Canada this year) even if he was ailing physically. the only 'big' final he has skipped is the WTF.
 
I really don't get what you're talking about.

skipping a final is completely different than skipping an entire event.

if you entered a tournament a got to the final and then chose not to compete in said final, that shows you care appreciably less about that tournament than if you had just skipped the entire thing all together.

Federer would have never skipped a slam final or SOG final or even a masters final (as shown by Canada this year) even if he was ailing physically. the only 'big' final he has skipped is the WTF.
Well, if you don’t follow what you are arguing I cannot help you further.

You have already stated that you don't follow the posts that you quote, so I am not going to repeat them for you.

You, again, speculated at the end of your post and I don't think it is worth the effort to correct you or point out to the intentionally misleading statements that you are making.

Good day.

:cool:
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Well, if you don’t follow what you are arguing I cannot help you further.

You have already stated that you don't follow the posts that you quote, so I am not going to repeat them for you.

You, again, speculated at the end of your post and I don't think it is worth the effort to correct you or point out to the intentionally misleading statements that you are making.

Good day.

:cool:
its not speculation (or at the very least, not bad speculation) if its based on facts and precedent.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Facts are that he did not play the Olympics but did play Wimbledon, Rome and even Monte Carlo, much closer after this knee surgery LOLLLLLL, but not Olympics. THOSE are the facts ;). Nothing imaginary there troll :)
what 'big' final has Federer skipped in his entire playing career?

going once, going twice...
 
its not speculation (or at the very least, not bad speculation) if its based on facts and precedent.
You refused to consider (or rather said that certain facts are not on your mind) some facts or made misleading statements regarding them, despite of them having everything to do with the issue at hand and the data you are relying to to support your claim.

Again, it was a speculation based on cherry picked facts and with a pretty definitive negative connotation.

.......
 

mightyrick

Legend
If Nadal isn't healthy, I can't see why he would play in the WTF. He is well past prime, has knee issues, WTF is his worst surface, isn't defending any points and has a lock on YE#1. I cannot see the logic of him playing. There is literally nothing to gain unless he merely wants the trophy.

But if he does that, he risks the AO... where he has a LOT to lose points-wise. It is much better to rest up.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
There's nothing more important than the WTF after the USO for Federer and Nadal. The biggest tournament left and whoever wins will have the last smile at the end of the year. Federer skipped Paris and decided to withdraw is a testament of how much the WTF means to them, especially for Nadal who is looking for his first win.
 

Polvorin

Professional
Erm so one French Open is a fluke right?
I would say no, on the basis of making five finals even though he only won one of them.

I believe the same is true for Nadal.. he has made two WTF final matches previously, so any claim that a victory would be a fluke is just hate.
 
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Towser83

G.O.A.T.
I would say no, on the basis of making five finals even though he only won one of them.

I believe the same is true for Nadal.. he has made two WTF final matches previously, so any claim that a victory would be fluke is just hate.
Ok that's fair enough, agreed.
 

Polvorin

Professional
actually, my last sentence in referenced post is fully supported by history. Federer has never skipped/defaulted/pulled-out of any final of a 'big event' besides the WTF.
We also saw Fed with a broken back attempt to play through the pain in a 5 set loss in 2005 WTF final. But things change when you are 32 I suppose.
 
It's been quite a season for Nadal and I'm really happy for an ATG to amazingly come back and do what he did this season ..

But I'm really feeling that WTF this year should be Nadal's big goal, because let's face it, it's the biggest hole in his career so far, and I don't think there will come a better opportunity to reach for it.

Especially after securing the YE #1, I feel it's become like a moral obligation (maybe it's not quite the word I'm aiming for, English is not my 1st language) for him to win it this year, and end the season with it, and maybe even defeat Fed en route, and shut the mouths that downplay his YE #1's significance considering he never beat the other most successful player this season, in any of their 4 encounters.

What do you think?[/
 
It's been quite a season for Nadal and I'm really happy for an ATG to amazingly come back and do what he did this season ..

But I'm really feeling that WTF this year should be Nadal's big goal, because let's face it, it's the biggest hole in his career so far, and I don't think there will come a better opportunity to reach for it.

Especially after securing the YE #1, I feel it's become like a moral obligation (maybe it's not quite the word I'm aiming for, English is not my 1st language) for him to win it this year, and end the season with it, and maybe even defeat Fed en route, and shut the mouths that downplay his YE #1's significance considering he never beat the other most successful player this season, in any of their 4 encounters.

What do you think?
WTF is not a big event. Too many players over the years have withdrawn or not taken up the alternate position.

As for Nadal a WTF won't add to his legacy, he now is about winning Majors as he is so close to Federer and has time on his side. It is unlikely he will prejudice his chances of being fresh and fit in Australia chasing the WTF.

Also Nadal is the best player in the world and had the best 2017 so from his point of view there isn't much to gain but a lot to lose by going to WTf if his knee goes.
 
It's been quite a season for Nadal and I'm really happy for an ATG to amazingly come back and do what he did this season ..

But I'm really feeling that WTF this year should be Nadal's big goal, because let's face it, it's the biggest hole in his career so far, and I don't think there will come a better opportunity to reach for it.

Especially after securing the YE #1, I feel it's become like a moral obligation (maybe it's not quite the word I'm aiming for, English is not my 1st language) for him to win it this year, and end the season with it, and maybe even defeat Fed en route, and shut the mouths that downplay his YE #1's significance considering he never beat the other most successful player this season, in any of their 4 encounters.

What do you think?
WTF is not a big event. Too many players over the years have withdrawn or not taken up the alternate position.

As for Nadal a WTF won't add to his legacy, he now is about winning Majors as he is so close to Federer and has time on his side. It is unlikely he will prejudice his chances of being fresh and fit in Australia chasing the WTF.

Also Nadal is the best player in the world and had the best 2017 so from his point of view there isn't much to gain but a lot to lose by going to WTf if his knee goes.
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Another fact is Olympics are infinitely more important and prestigious than the WTF which is acknowledged by the professionals so I'm unclear as to any debate.
Actually it's not a fact. Nor is it a fact that the WTF is more important that the Olympics, it's all opinion which is why these arguments are essentially pointless. Olympics are prestigious but don't have a lot of tennis history so a lot of all time greats never had the chance to compete. They're more prestigious in tennis terms now it's true, but I don't really believe it's something you can equate to any other event in Tennis.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
We also saw Fed with a broken back attempt to play through the pain in a 5 set loss in 2005 WTF final. But things change when you are 32 I suppose.
actually, he played in the Canada final this year while physically ailing, at 36...

so your example takes nothing away from my point.
 

Polvorin

Professional
actually, he played in the Canada final this year while physically ailing, at 36...

so your example takes nothing away from my point.
My example shows how important the WTF final was to Fed. That back problem in 2005 was one of the more severe injuries he's played through in his career. He even got on court treatment, which for him was unheard of.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
My example shows how important the WTF final was to Fed. That back problem in 2005 was one of the more severe injuries he's played through in his career. He even got on court treatment, which for him was unheard of.
but that, assuming its true, doesn't negate that the only 'big' final Federer has skipped is the WTF.
 

2five8

New User
but that, assuming its true, doesn't negate that the only 'big' final Federer has skipped is the WTF.
Federer got injured from the semi-final where he went the distance with Stan, so if he got injured after the semis, then of course he is going to withdraw on the finals day. Him skipping the Olympics was a decision made after Wimbledon some time before the Olympics and it included the USO and the rest of the season. You seem to be focused on the fact that it was a final that he withdrew from and not the fact that his injury came from playing the semi-finals. If he got injured the round robin and withdrew it would be the same thing. It has nothing to do with what his opinion is of the WTF versus the Olympics.
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
but that, assuming its true, doesn't negate that the only 'big' final Federer has skipped is the WTF.
That's also the only time he's had davis cup final to play though, and he didn't want to let his team down. He'd also got injured right before the final so no time to recover to have any hope of winning that. In Canada this year he seemed to start the match ok plus he knew he could skip cinci. Not everyone may rate the wtf but Federer certainly does, not more than a slam, but certainly more than a masters, or he wouldn't have pulled out of Paris. Paris was a very easy draw and had he won that, could have gone to the WTF for a shot at YE number 1. He sacrificed a chance of equalling a Pete Sampras record of 6 year end number ones to play the WTF in good shape. That says what he thinks of it. And he's already got the record amount of titles there.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Federer would have never skipped a slam final or SOG final or even a masters final (as shown by Canada this year) even if he was ailing physically. the only 'big' final he has skipped is the WTF.
you are a humungous moron if you really think Federer values Canada more than the YEC.
He tweaked his back in the Canada final in the 2nd set.
 
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2five8

New User
but that, assuming its true, doesn't negate that the only 'big' final Federer has skipped is the WTF.
Federer got injured from the semi-final where he went the distance with Stan, so if he got injured after the semis, then of course he is going to withdraw on the finals day. Him skipping the Olympics was a decision made after Wimbledon some time before the Olympics and it included the USO and the rest of the season. You seem to be focused on the fact that it was a final that he withdrew from and not the fact that his injury came from playing the semi-finals. If he got injured the round robin and withdrew it would be the same thing. It has nothing to do with what his opinion is of the WTF versus the Olympics.
 
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