Nadal's forehand and Del Potro's forehand

Heracles

Banned
Del Potro is known to have one of the biggest forehand on the ATP if not the biggest in term of hard hitting.

But in yesterday match, the bigger shot was easily Nadal forehand. He hit some terrific winners from his forehand in all sets. He was finding the lines and incredible angles with a lot of paces.

In the rallies Del Potro was a lot of times in the bad spots. This match showed that Nadal's forehand is still a much better shot than Del Potro's one, especially on grasscourt.
 

soleil

Rookie
Del Potro is known to have one of the biggest forehand on the ATP if not the biggest in term of hard hitting.

But in yesterday match, the bigger shot was easily Nadal forehand. He hit some terrific winners from his forehand in all sets. He was finding the lines and incredible angles with a lot of paces.

In the rallies Del Potro was a lot of times in the bad spots. This match showed that Nadal's forehand is still a much better shot than Del Potro's one, especially on grasscourt.

Guess we'll have to wait for hard court season.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
It depends on the surface. On clay or grass I would take Nadal's for sure. On hard courts though I might take Del Potro's if he were playing his best.

Keep in mind Del Potro is not even a good grass court player. He hadnt made it past the 2nd round of Wimbledon until this year. He did extremely well, especialy not back at his best yet, to push Nadal as far as he did. And Del Potro moves like a giraffe on grass, so it is hard to gauge whose forehand was more effective when there is a huge gulf in movement, even bigger than the other sufaces.
 
Always felt Del Potro's best shot was the cross court backhand, his forehand used to be a weak shot. He beefed up his forehand around IW/Miami 2009 and it become a weapon French Open 2009. His forehand is not in the same league as Nadal's.
 

namelessone

Legend
Del Potro is known to have one of the biggest forehand on the ATP if not the biggest in term of hard hitting.

But in yesterday match, the bigger shot was easily Nadal forehand. He hit some terrific winners from his forehand in all sets. He was finding the lines and incredible angles with a lot of paces.

In the rallies Del Potro was a lot of times in the bad spots. This match showed that Nadal's forehand is still a much better shot than Del Potro's one, especially on grasscourt.

Bingo.

Delpo's forehand is way harder than Rafa's but he has to plant his feet first.

Kinda tough to do on grass.

Look at the way Juan hits it on HC. It's like a cannon firing off.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
I agree that in this match nadal hit the bigger forehand and showed delpo that he is the more complete player on grass.

Nadal served better, hit the forehand bigger, sliced better, closer to the baseline, finished points off at the net better and played better defense. The only thing delpo had that was better was the bh.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I agree that in this match nadal hit the bigger forehand and showed delpo that he is the more complete player on grass.

Nadal served better, hit the forehand bigger, sliced better, closer to the baseline, finished points off at the net better and played better defense. The only thing delpo had that was better was the bh.

I still got the impression that Delpo got more free points off his serve and he wasn't half bad at the net, overall he improved that part of his game tremendously in this Wimbledom IMO(not just in Nadal match). Comparing FHs though Nadal was on another planet yesterday, I don't think I've seen him being that dominant with his FH since 2008.
 
I still got the impression that Delpo got more free points off his serve and he wasn't half bad at the net, overall he improved that part of his game tremendously in this Wimbledom IMO(not just in Nadal match). Comparing FHs though Nadal was on another planet yesterday, I don't think I've seen him being that dominant with his FH since 2008.

I dunno, he destroyed the field with his forehand at Wimbledon last year.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I dunno, he destroyed the field with his forehand at Wimbledon last year.

Still didn't look this impressive IMO, maybe it was desire to keep the rallies shorter if he felt his foot might get worse if he engages in long rallies that made him go for it that much off the FH side? I remember for example twhen Roddick got injuried against Cilic in 2010 AO and started hitting his FH big in desperation I was thinking why doesn't he play like this all the time.
 

janie5jones

New User
While the scoreline of the Nadal-Del Potro match yesterday was very close, Del Potro played far too passively. There were many moments where he seemed to revert to 'Ping-pong tennis.' He wasn't going for forehand winners, but rather getting the ball back over the net--this happened even where there were so many clear chances for him to go for the winning shot.

Nadal hit impressive forehand winners, at a speed I had not seen in his earlier matches this year. So Nadal had a clear game plan, whereas Del Potro was too tentative. Once Del Potro's first serve disappeared, that was all Nadal needed to take the match. The grass-court surface was a definitive factor, because Del Potro often plays much more aggressively.

One of the positive takeaways from this match is how often Del Potro came to the net. He did not look like he knew what he was doing and half the time I was hoping he wouldn't embarrass himself. But Nadal was just as awkward on grass at the beginning of his career, and look how far he's come. Disappointing result for Del Potro, but when (if) he plays on grass next year, he's definitely headed in the right direction.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
I still got the impression that Delpo got more free points off his serve and he wasn't half bad at the net, overall he improved that part of his game tremendously in this Wimbledom IMO(not just in Nadal match). Comparing FHs though Nadal was on another planet yesterday, I don't think I've seen him being that dominant with his FH since 2008.

Well, Nadal had a slightly higher %, 2 more aces, 3 less DF (key df for delpo in the 1st set tiebreak), 2 more bp. They each broke once. It's possible that delpo got a few more free points, but my feeling was nadal was putting more pressure on delpo than the other way around.

Delpo came in more than nadal, but his % was a lot worse. I got the impression delpo went into the match with an intent to come in once in a while and change things up against nadal. But it didn't work. I agree his net game has improved quite a bit and he's shown some nice feel when forced to hit awkward shots. I remember an awkward ROS and that weird cc fh winner that he hit. Delpo is a lot more dangerous on this dimension than say soderling.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
I agree that in this match nadal hit the bigger forehand and showed delpo that he is the more complete player on grass.

Nadal served better, hit the forehand bigger, sliced better, closer to the baseline, finished points off at the net better and played better defense. The only thing delpo had that was better was the bh.

Of course but it is like some people think it is a revelation Nadal proved to be a better grass court player than a guy who hadnt been past the 2nd round of Wimbledon before. Was it ever in doubt really. :confused: Del Potro should be praised for doing much better than expected in the match on his worst surface by far, when he isnt even re-established as a top 5 player again to boot.
 
With the combination of being 6'6" and playing on grass, it's no wonder he has trouble on grass. That, plus him playing a lefty, a lot of the shots that came to his forehand were backhands, which have significantly less spin than the forehand of Nadal, he really had no chance, I didn't even think Del Potro would take a set off of Nadal, so the fact that he did on grass is commendable.

I don't understand why people think Del Potro is such a matchup problem for Nadal. JMDP's forehand is very effective, but a lot of the balls that come to his forehand from Nadal are backhands, which are much less spinny then his forehand. Jump Man DP had a great 2009 USO, and he brought the hammer on Nadal, and even outplayed Federer, one of the greatest players in USO history. Give him credit for that, but I don't think DP has the movement to exploit Nadal's high kicking forehand. It's overstated, much like Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand. Federer does not lose to Nadal because he exploits his backhand, it's because he exploits his court positioning. Federer so often leaves the court wide open to go for finishing shots and inside out forehands, Nadal just abuses him. Watch a Nadal-Federer match on the dirt, and tell me Federer is playing a smart game. Federer would be wise to be more conservative on ANY court against Nadal, let alone clay.
 

cucio

Legend
I don't understand why people think Del Potro is such a matchup problem for Nadal.

Because Nadal's bread and butter is to grind out players just hitting crosscourt forehands. Predictable and monotonous as it is, this is enough for beating most of the field most of the time (which is unfortunate, since it makes for rather dull matches.) If Rafa is low on form or confidence he will fall back to this gameplan and most of the time it will coast him to a win.

But Del Po and others (Söderling, Djokovic, Davydenko...) can handle this shot just fine, so they will camp in the backhand corner and destroy the Spaniard. Against them Nadal has to bring more variety, on a mediocre day his basic gameplan will only bring him a sound thrashing against those guys.
 
Because Nadal's bread and butter is to grind out players just hitting crosscourt forehands. Predictable and monotonous as it is, this is enough for beating most of the field most of the time (which is unfortunate, since it makes for rather dull matches.) If Rafa is low on form or confidence he will fall back to this gameplan and most of the time it will coast him to a win.

But Del Po and others (Söderling, Djokovic, Davydenko...) can handle this shot just fine, so they will camp in the backhand corner and destroy the Spaniard. Against them Nadal has to bring more variety, on a mediocre day his basic gameplan will only bring him a sound thrashing against those guys.

Djokovic and Murray, I can see that. Davydenko on the right day, maybe. Delpo and Soderling I'm not buying. Those three have solid backhands and movement. That, plus those 3 don't go for broke a lot. They hit a solid, attacking shot, but move well enough to get back to neutral if their attempt at a DTL shot comes back (and usually very well against Nadal). That, plus a lefty vs. righty match is very much about changing direction, as you want to get the "my forehand to your backhand" advantage, but Delpo and Soderling are subpar movers. I think Jump Man and Soderling will be Nadal's pigeons for the rest of their careers, while Murray and Djokovic will continue to be matchup problems for Nadal.
 

The Hermit

Semi-Pro
Nadal fprehand is better than Del Potro's on grass, but Del Potro's serve is much better than Nadal. yesterday match JUan was serving like Sampras.
 

Homeboy Hotel

Hall of Fame
Because Nadal's bread and butter is to grind out players just hitting crosscourt forehands. Predictable and monotonous as it is, this is enough for beating most of the field most of the time (which is unfortunate, since it makes for rather dull matches.) If Rafa is low on form or confidence he will fall back to this gameplan and most of the time it will coast him to a win.

But Del Po and others (Söderling, Djokovic, Davydenko...) can handle this shot just fine, so they will camp in the backhand corner and destroy the Spaniard. Against them Nadal has to bring more variety, on a mediocre day his basic gameplan will only bring him a sound thrashing against those guys.

I must make love with your fantastic post. I would include Murray in that list.

But what variety does Nadal bring exactly? Moon-balling, pushing tactics?

I remember rightly at the World Tour Finals 2010 against Murray all Nadal did is serve to Murray's forehand because he was SO SCARED of his backhand. Quite rightly so.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
LOL at Soderling ever destroying Nadal. Nadal owns Soderling on all surfaces. Soderling has 2 wins over Nadal. One was a very competitive 4 setter in which Soderling played the match of his life. The other was a pretty close 2 set win over Nadal playing his worst tennis ever and not winning a set against any of the top 8 ranked players at the event.
 

cucio

Legend
I must make love with your fantastic post. I would include Murray in that list.

But what variety does Nadal bring exactly? Moon-balling, pushing tactics?

Yup, Murray gets in too, sorry for the glaring omission.

When he is high on confidence Nadal can hit a mean IO or DTL FH, a wicked CCBH and pretty decent BH slices. Plus his new improved serve, which is bailing him out of many tight situations. It is very annoying that he refuses to resort to these resources when he feels he can get by with the CCFH routine.

LOL at Soderling ever destroying Nadal. Nadal owns Soderling on all surfaces. Soderling has 2 wins over Nadal. One was a very competitive 4 setter in which Soderling played the match of his life. The other was a pretty close 2 set win over Nadal playing his worst tennis ever and not winning a set against any of the top 8 ranked players at the event.

Both Nadal's wins on grass have been also close matches. But I agree that of all the players that are not hurt by Nadal's main weapon he is the one that can take less advantage of it.
 

sarmpas

Hall of Fame
Oh dear you're comparing Nadal, who is match tight with Del Potro who is getting back to his best form after a lay off :rolls eyes:

Also you ignore the role footwork plays in allowing a player to be in position to hit the big forehands.

Regarding the actual shot itself when both players are at there best and in the right position to unload I give the edge to Del Potro.

On clay and grass where more players find it difficult to get into position Nadal is much better than Del Potro at getting into the right position.

Nadal is better than Del Potro at being able to get into the right position to hit the forehand.
 
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Spider

Hall of Fame
Nadal's footwork on grass is exceptional and gets into positions to unleash his forehand better than any player on grass.

And his forehand takes a huge kick from the surface making it a very tough shot to handle.
 

Homeboy Hotel

Hall of Fame
Nadal's footwork on grass is exceptional and gets into positions to unleash his forehand better than any player on grass.

And his forehand takes a huge kick from the surface making it a very tough shot to handle.

He has to have SUPER footwork and he's use to having such good footwork because he is so scared to hit his below-par local club level backhand...
 
DP is a highball hitter. on balls above the net he is the most effective player on the tour.

on lower balls he is not so good because of his height and swing style.

so on grass nadals FH is more effective while on high bouncing hard DPs FH is better.
 

bolo

G.O.A.T.
Still didn't look this impressive IMO, maybe it was desire to keep the rallies shorter if he felt his foot might get worse if he engages in long rallies that made him go for it that much off the FH side? I remember for example twhen Roddick got injuried against Cilic in 2010 AO and started hitting his FH big in desperation I was thinking why doesn't he play like this all the time.

It did seem like he wanted to end the rallies faster. He had some great fh performances in 2010, Doha, IW, MC, Rome, Wimbledon. 2010 was his best year in terms of W/Ue ratio imo. But I don't remember him stalking the baseline like in the delpo match and just spanking the daylight out of the ball.
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Still didn't look this impressive IMO, maybe it was desire to keep the rallies shorter if he felt his foot might get worse if he engages in long rallies that made him go for it that much off the FH side?
Exactly. Nadal said he couldn't push of with his foot when he was stretched wide on his forehand. Anytime Delpo hit a inside out forehand or backhand cross court wide, Nadal would be screwed. So Rafa just threw caution to the wind, and at any semblance of the short ball, pulled the trigger.

Also if you notice, it was not his bread n butter CC forehand that was firing yesterday. Instead, it was the off-forehand (inside out or DTL). Both those shots are far more offensive in general, and penetrate the court better since they are flatter than his cc forehand.

Lately, since late F.O, Nadal is making an effort to hit his off-forehand more. His cc forehand was not that effective on clay. All spin and no penetration, and Djokovic destroyed it the 2 times they met. So if Nadal uses his off-forehand more, he becomes a better player, as he was yesterday..
 

FeVer

Semi-Pro
When I went to Wimby on friday I saw the Delpo Simon match. Tbh Delpo was being outhit by Simon on the ordinary groundies. Only when he really went for it did he hit quite a powerful shot (still not as powerful as he looks on tv though). Maybe it's because there's more pace on the ball on grass so he doesn't need to use so much power, but his forehand was nothing like the thumping bear slap that we saw against Federer at the 09 US open. It could also be because he doesn't feel he has complete control over the pace of the ball on grass and therefore plays more cautiously.
 
Because Nadal's bread and butter is to grind out players just hitting crosscourt forehands. Predictable and monotonous as it is, this is enough for beating most of the field most of the time (which is unfortunate, since it makes for rather dull matches.) If Rafa is low on form or confidence he will fall back to this gameplan and most of the time it will coast him to a win.

But Del Po and others (Söderling, Djokovic, Davydenko...) can handle this shot just fine, so they will camp in the backhand corner and destroy the Spaniard. Against them Nadal has to bring more variety, on a mediocre day his basic gameplan will only bring him a sound thrashing against those guys.

Haha, so you're saying that even if Nadal has an off day, he will soundly thrash all players - even those players whose natural game matches up favorably against his game? No wonder he is totally unbeatable in slams.
 

ChanceEncounter

Professional
I don't understand why people think Del Potro is such a matchup problem for Nadal. JMDP's forehand is very effective, but a lot of the balls that come to his forehand from Nadal are backhands, which are much less spinny then his forehand. Jump Man DP had a great 2009 USO, and he brought the hammer on Nadal, and even outplayed Federer, one of the greatest players in USO history. Give him credit for that, but I don't think DP has the movement to exploit Nadal's high kicking forehand. It's overstated, much like Nadal's forehand to Federer's backhand. Federer does not lose to Nadal because he exploits his backhand, it's because he exploits his court positioning. Federer so often leaves the court wide open to go for finishing shots and inside out forehands, Nadal just abuses him. Watch a Nadal-Federer match on the dirt, and tell me Federer is playing a smart game. Federer would be wise to be more conservative on ANY court against Nadal, let alone clay.

To say that Nadal doesn't exploit Federer's backhand is missing the point. Yes, Nadal wins points because he takes Federer off the court and then abuses the open space. But look at Federer's court positioning against most players and then against Nadal. He is forced to take more risks because he's not in control of the rallies. One crosscourt forehand from Nadal to Federer's backhand, and Nadal is in complete control of the rally. Any opening that Federer sees, he feels the need to do something big with it (hence taking more risks with his forehand). If he doesn't, he would gradually lose the point anyway because he can't expect to win many of his backhand-to-forehand exchanges with Nadal.

If Federer were left handed, you would see much more competitive matches. Of course the penultimate reason why Federer loses the point is often his court positioning, but the setup to that is because Federer can't do anything to Nadal's forehand with his backhand. It's just not strong enough of a shot compared to Nadal's.

The same is true with Del Potro. Del Potro [on hard courts] loves to take balls on the rise, and high bouncing balls off of a fast court like the US Open fall right into his strike zone. That's why he was able to abuse Nadal at the US Open. Because he's able to completely neutralize Nadal's spin (arguably his greatest weapon), and just blast balls back before Nadal can reach them. Is it necessarily why Del Potro wins? Not exactly, but it's a factor that strongly contributes to it by dictating the way the two play when they face each other.
 
To say that Nadal doesn't exploit Federer's backhand is missing the point. Yes, Nadal wins points because he takes Federer off the court and then abuses the open space. But look at Federer's court positioning against most players and then against Nadal. He is forced to take more risks because he's not in control of the rallies. One crosscourt forehand from Nadal to Federer's backhand, and Nadal is in complete control of the rally. Any opening that Federer sees, he feels the need to do something big with it (hence taking more risks with his forehand). If he doesn't, he would gradually lose the point anyway because he can't expect to win many of his backhand-to-forehand exchanges with Nadal.

If Federer were left handed, you would see much more competitive matches. Of course the penultimate reason why Federer loses the point is often his court positioning, but the setup to that is because Federer can't do anything to Nadal's forehand with his backhand. It's just not strong enough of a shot compared to Nadal's.

The same is true with Del Potro. Del Potro [on hard courts] loves to take balls on the rise, and high bouncing balls off of a fast court like the US Open fall right into his strike zone. That's why he was able to abuse Nadal at the US Open. Because he's able to completely neutralize Nadal's spin (arguably his greatest weapon), and just blast balls back before Nadal can reach them. Is it necessarily why Del Potro wins? Not exactly, but it's a factor that strongly contributes to it by dictating the way the two play when they face each other.

Pretty much as good as a description as you'll ever get on why Nadal is such a problem for Fed.

Props
 

Heracles

Banned
Because Nadal's bread and butter is to grind out players just hitting crosscourt forehands. Predictable and monotonous as it is, this is enough for beating most of the field most of the time (which is unfortunate, since it makes for rather dull matches.) If Rafa is low on form or confidence he will fall back to this gameplan and most of the time it will coast him to a win.

But Del Po and others (Söderling, Djokovic, Davydenko...) can handle this shot just fine, so they will camp in the backhand corner and destroy the Spaniard. Against them Nadal has to bring more variety, on a mediocre day his basic gameplan will only bring him a sound thrashing against those guys.


Nadal bread and butter is not to grind out anything. That's his plan C, when he plays really bad and that his shots are off.

When Nadal plays his fame he is above these players and truely the best playing the world.
 
Del Potro is known to have one of the biggest forehand on the ATP if not the biggest in term of hard hitting.

But in yesterday match, the bigger shot was easily Nadal forehand. He hit some terrific winners from his forehand in all sets. He was finding the lines and incredible angles with a lot of paces.

In the rallies Del Potro was a lot of times in the bad spots. This match showed that Nadal's forehand is still a much better shot than Del Potro's one, especially on grasscourt.



Their strokes are completely different. You're forgetting variables when comparing the FH.



JMDP's forehand is a very long motion. On a grass court where the ball travels still quite quick he can't fire the gunshot forehands we see on hard courts. He relies on timing on both wings. Of course he can unload but not as much on a grasscourt


Nadal doesn't rely on timing as much as JMDP, and his forehand is a quicker motion meaning he can unload on that shot on different looks except for when he's on teh defensive.




On hard courts then JMDP can move better, and has more time to hit the crap on the FH wing and the BH. I'd say he would dominate Nadal from the baseline, wing-for-wing on hard courts.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Nadal forehand on clay and grass is far superior to Del Potro. But I would take Del Potro's forehand any day at the US Open. No question about it.
 
Nadal forehand on clay and grass is far superior to Del Potro. But I would take Del Potro's forehand any day at the US Open. No question about it.

Why?

The hard-court of the US Open is the intermediate surface between grass (fastest, lowest bounces) and clay (slowest, highest bounces). If Rafa's forehand is far superior on both extremes of surface, why would Delpo's be superior on the intermediate surface?

I know Wimby has supposedly slowed down now - there is no way it is actually slower than a hard-court surface like the US Open.
 

fps

Legend
Two completely different shots, time will prove them equally destructive on the surfaces that suit them best (Rafa- clay/ grass Del Potro- hards)
 
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