Hitman
Bionic Poster
Roddick has several San Jose and Memphis titles if I recall, he always had a solid season indoors following AO. It's still a better career than Nadal indoors.
Nadal's indoors ATG position
- Thread starter itrium84
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Roddick has several San Jose and Memphis titles if I recall, he always had a solid season indoors following AO. It's still a better career than Nadal indoors.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yeah that's true I guess, he tended to underperform post USO though.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Post USO yes, he wasn't at his best, but post AO he was pretty good, hence why I put him above Nadal.
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
Yeah, and there's also the often overlooked Madrid DC finals of 2019. He didn't face top players there but he played some pretty great stuff and didn't drop a set in singles. I think Madrid brings out some of the best versions of indoor Rafa, it's a shame they changed things after '08
beard
Legend
But, don't you think lack of indoor resume is big minus in his career? I think it's huge...I mean, not to take anything away since it seems the OP is being genuine and not trolling, but this is sort of beating a dead horse. Yeah Nadal has been unsuccessful on indoor HC. Is it because of the surface itself (plus conditions), the timing in terms of the season, a mix of both? Probably a mix. Either way, I don't think any Nadal fan thinks their idol is an ATG on indoor hard, and if they do they're definitely in the minority there. For what it's worth he has shown a high level there a couple times albeit very sporadically but again the results aren't there for him. Case more or less closed, I think
:format(png)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/51616429/ios-10-shrug-emoji.0.png)
(@TW Staff it'd be nice to have this emoji as well)
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
You read my post, right? The answer's in there
NatF
Bionic Poster
Indoors has a long historical tradition in tennis, from the old Pro tour to the WCT Finals (at one point gifting the biggest prize money in tennis) and later the ATP Finals. So yes it is absolutely a big minus that Nadal has failed there. Less significant than say Sampras' not winning the FO but it's certainly non-trivial when we consider AT in GOAT stands for "All Time".
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Agree
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Mats won 3 indoor titles and was runner up 10x. 17-year-old Mats also took JMac to five sets and six hours in an epic DC rubber indoors in St. Louis. The match was played about a month after he won his first title, RG’82.
In total, Mats won 36 DC singles rubbers and contributed to 3 Swedish DC titles. I’m fairly confident that the Swedish climate and the DC format in the 1980s combined to dictate quite a few of the home ties be played indoors.
beard
Legend
I read your post... And now I read it again... Don't see if you find his lack of indoor capabilities important or not...
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
Hmmm, too bad for you then
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
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beard
Legend
So you can't simplify for me stupid?
A) his bad indoor resume is big minus in his career
B) his bad indoor resume is not big minus in his career
Just simple A or B...
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
You do know that Nadal has beaten both Fed and Djokovic indoors, dont you?
El_Yotamo
Hall of Fame
I'm typically very happy to go in depth and explain things to people, however it seems you're only ever here to trash Nadal so I have no reason to entertain you. I more than respected the OP for example, or the Federer fan that replied to me, but with you it's quite a different case.
Btw, do you think throwing out insults is a way to get what you want from people? Because it definitely doesn't work that way with me
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Who is Spencer Gore?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I didn't mean this as a diss to Nadal and more like an observation. Wilander actually won 3 indoor titles and 1 Masters, like Nadal did at Madrid Masters on hardcourt. When you break it down though, they do have some similarities like more titles on clay than any other surface, but didn't mean that they are the same caliber of player since Nadal is clearly higher.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Hey! @stringertom and I were just wondering where you were, now that Young Artiste is shining, and here you are
Spencer Gore is a tennis historian, who has been following tennis closely since the 1850s.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
Yeah this, he was owning everyone in Rotterdam 2009 until the Kneed@l Saga started.
Djokovic's disparity in AO vs USO performance can be similarly explained.
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
I've been around just haven't posted much - still follow the threadsHey! @stringertom and I were just wondering where you were, now that Young Artiste is shining, and here you are
Spencer Gore is a tennis historian, who has been following tennis closely since the 1850s.
Work has been crazy and hardly find the time
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman
Bionic Poster
So what you are saying is that Nadal is the Wilander of this era...well they were the two guys with multiple slams on every surface.
beard
Legend
Ok, you wrote a lot words for someone who don't want to entertain me. Many words that say nothing... Again...
Have Insulted you? Don't know how...
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
Nadal was in his best form of his career too though and he was 24. Fed was 29. Nadal should have won that
Genious at Work
G.O.A.T.
Indoors is Nadal's worst scenario, but he has achieved quite a few things there still: 2 WTF finals, 1 Olympic Gold. Imagine if Soderling hadn't taken Nadal out at the FO in 09. Then Fed might have 0 French Opens. Would that affect his status as GOAT?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Which one is that?
goldengate14
Professional
Another Nadal thread by a Djokovic fan. Amazig stuff.
goldengate14
Professional
Lol. Indoors is irrelevant. Tennis is an outdoor sport. Nadal simply not interested in indoor tennis. By his own admission.
victorcruz
Hall of Fame
As an active Team Nadal member, I've trained myself to not give a damn about tennis indoors. That's my honesty right there
But the truth is there is a lot of other sports going on at the time. Would I care more if Rafa was winning these events? Who knows, probably. But I didn't start getting alerts on my smartphone about Rafa matches beginning till last year i changed some settings. Does that make me a casual? No, I've trained myself to care more about slam matches.
But the truth is there is a lot of other sports going on at the time. Would I care more if Rafa was winning these events? Who knows, probably. But I didn't start getting alerts on my smartphone about Rafa matches beginning till last year i changed some settings. Does that make me a casual? No, I've trained myself to care more about slam matches.
beard
Legend
Why they play indoor if tennis is outdoor sport?
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
RG 2020
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I take it you didn't see what happened to Nadal at the WTF 2009 then, when he was in the same group as Davydenko.
I missed that —good catch. 1-1 then.
NAS
Hall of Fame
Rafa is better than Roddick at indoor, winning Madrid, going into Paris final and then in couple of yec final and loosing to yec goat is better than winning 4 or 5 small trophies
NAS
Hall of Fame
The point is where is overall Roddick numbers, no indoors master final is biggest blot for him( mind you there was two indoor master for his peak career) just like no hc slam final for Nalbandian.
If Berdych can win one indoor master then there is no reason for Roddick for not to make a single final, even I am ready to forget about yec final.
I am already lowering the bar for Roddick, just asking him to make one final, not to win, just make it
ImmorTAL Big 3
Semi-Pro
If we talk about all time-not in TOP 200.Don t forget until open era there were wooden courts,far more carpet tournaments as well as indoors
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Keep in mind that the title Nadal did win was in the absence of Federer in Madrid 2005, who had injured his ankle.
I personally cannot have one masters win over multiple San Jose and Memphis titles. Now had Nadal won in Marseille or Rotterdam during that post AO indoor season, I would give him the nod, but he didn't.
NAS
Hall of Fame
Not only his one master win but also Paris final and two yec final, I am not even talking about two Shanghai final, introduction of Shanghai doesn't mean anything to Andy as he was not capable to make Shanghai final but it took away some accomplishments from Rafa.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I can't give finals lost over actual titles won, when the gap in title wins is as big as it is between them. If it was closer, then yes, I would agree, but I believe Roddick has 4 San Jose titles and at least 2 in Memphis, that cannot be countered by a couple of runner up spots. Nadal needed at least one more title IMO, having just one title and a bunch of finals for me isn't going to do it.
NAS
Hall of Fame
I think Rafa has 2 indoor title
Roddickulous1
Semi-Pro
Eh, I'm a Roddick fan and I don't know about that. The competition in those tournaments was hardly stellar.
Ned has a masters and a couple of YEC finals to his name at least.
NAS
Hall of Fame
Yes
Hitman
Bionic Poster
We can agree to disagree for sure, but I saw most of the wins by Roddick, and he looked free flowing in those conditions.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Humphrey20133
Semi-Pro
There is such a thing as an indoor atg in tennis? Lol. Man, the lengths some of you will go to in order to denigrate Rafa is astounding.
ghostofMecir
Hall of Fame
To be fair in the late ‘70s and ‘80s, more matches were played indoor than anywhere else.
Since no slams are played indoors, it probably doesn’t really matter that much, but if we want to take a really granular look at this, Nadal just does not play well in a setting that’s devoid of any outside elements in which the conditions are the most perfect and ball striking is at its absolute premium. That’s not a good thing.
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