Nadal's injuries - why so rarely on clay?

[MichelaDe]

Since his breakout year in 2005 Nadal in big tournaments (Slams, YECs, Masters, Olympics) has skipped the tournament, retired during a match or withdrawn from a match:

3/3 times on carpet (100.0%)

54/169 times on hard (32.0%)

5/18 times on grass (27.8%)

4/70 times on clay (5.7%)

Why are his injuries so rare on clay compared to other surfaces?

 

[weakera]

Two reasons, #1 because Nadal is so good on clay that he can still win at far less than 100% physically and #2 because clay is far more forgiving on the body.

 

[junior74]

Clay is The Real Tennis

 

[MichelaDe]

Two reasons, #1 because Nadal is so good on clay that he can still win at far less than 100% physically and #2 because clay is far more forgiving on the body.

So you will tell me that other players retire less frequently on clay too? Show me the numbers.

 

[Kralingen]

 

[HFK]

Nadal grew up playing on clay and his movement patterns were all developed on clay. You get injured on hard courts doing plant and twist movements, which aren't a problem on clay because there really isn't any planting.

 

[Beerus]

Welcome to the forum, sir.

 

[Rosstour]

Because he only retires when losing, and he loses a lot less on clay.

 

[djokovic the conqueror]

Clay has magical healing properties that only work for the Nadal.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Nadal is not the first player to struggle with injuries off clay where the knee load is heavier, ya know. Perhaps if he were born 20 years earlier he'd have been more like Guillermo Perez-Roldan.

 

[maratha_warrior]

Welcome New User . Nice name

 

[weakera]

Where are my manners? I did not realize the op is a brand new user. Welcome!

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Welcome New User . Nice name

I did not realize the op is a brand new user. Welcome!

Hi, I am a TTW New User and I'd like to discuss some important topics spontaneously.

 

[The Fedfather]

He goes ham physically during the clay season and that catches up with him the rest of the year.

 

[NeutralFan]

Welcome to the forum, son!

Son!

 

[NeutralFan]

Nadal is not the first player to struggle with injuries off clay where the knee load is heavier, ya know. Perhaps if he were born 20 years earlier he'd have been more like Guillermo Perez-Roldan.

If and Hypotheticals have become life for many Fed fans here.

 

[mahatma]

A “Ruud” welcome to the new “son”. Ttw reigns

 

[jm1980]

Two reasons, #1 because Nadal is so good on clay that he can still win at far less than 100% physically

OP is not talking about winning though, but showing up at all

 

[Fintft]

So you will tell me that other players retire less frequently on clay too? Show me the numbers.

You don't need numbers, just know physics, since one can't really change dirrections abruptly on clay, innertia doesn't take such a toll on your joints...
Even truer for heavier guys since F= ma (mass multiplied by acceleration).

 

[ElChivoEspañol]

This is the type of question/thread that only someone who's never played the sport or even put any meaningful thought watching tennis besides following the ball bounce from one side of the net to the other.

In short, clay gives you much more time to set up and strike the ball than any other surface, so you're not rushing/ on a full stretch to reach a ball half the time. And after you sprint to hit the ball you don't come to a sudden stop that adds an unreal amount of stress to soft tissue.

 

[Mustard]

Remember the 2016 French Open? How about 2022 Rome?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[jm1980]

Remember the 2016 French Open? How about 2022 Rome?

They obviously remember, as it's two of the four times he's pulled out from clay tournaments. The OP is asking why he's done it so few times on clay compared to other surfaces

 

[Mustard]

They obviously remember, as it's two of the four times he's pulled out from clay tournaments. The OP is asking why he's done it so few times on clay compared to other surfaces

Why is the Pope Catholic?

 

[Kralingen]

I miss Eriksen. What a player

 

[_phantom]

OP is not talking about winning though, but showing up at all

Same explanation. He is so good on clay that he feels damn confident even when on one leg.

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Actually I am curious and genuinely wondering, has Nadal ever been injured or retired when he was leading a match? What about Federer or Djokovic?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I miss Eriksen. What a player

 

[RS]

 

[jm1980]

Actually I am curious and genuinely wondering, has Nadal ever been injured or retired when he was leading a match? What about Federer or Djokovic?

Djokovic has retired twice while leading:

• 2006 Umag final vs Wawrinka: retired while leading 3-1 in first set tiebreaker
• 2008 Davis Cup vs Davydenko: retired while leading 2-1 in sets

Nadal has never retired while leading. The closest was the 2006 Queen's QF against Hewitt, where Nadal retired after losing the second set

Federer has never retired from a match at all

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Djokovic has retired twice while leading:

• 2006 Umag final vs Wawrinka: retired while leading 3-1 in first set tiebreaker
• 2008 Davis Cup vs Davydenko: retired while leading 2-1 in sets

Nadal has never retired while leading. The closest was the 2006 Queen's QF against Hewitt, where Nadal retired after losing the second set

Federer has never retired from a match at all

Thanks. Do you also have counts for retirements while trailing? Will be interesting to compare the ratios for Djokodal.

 

[jm1980]

Thanks. Do you also have counts for retirements while trailing? Will be interesting to compare the ratios for Djokodal.

Djokovic has retired 14 total times, so 12 times while trailing.

Nadal has 10 total retirements, 9 while trailing and 1 tied

 

[ibbi]

Clay being easier on the body would be the reason he doesn't get hurt on it as much. If you're not already aware of that you can google it and find numerous articles about it.

Trying to equate skipping a tournament with getting hurt during a tournament and retiring during it is the kind of brain-dead reach it would take either an idiot or a troll to come up with. I make no judgment on that front. I am, as you claim to be, just pointing out something interesting.

Nadal has gotten hurt during one grass court tournament, and that had literally nothing to do with the surface he was playing on. He missed the two carpet tournaments in 2005 because he hurt himself on a hard court.

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Djokovic has retired 14 total times, so 12 times while trailing.

Nadal has 10 total retirements, 9 while trailing and 1 tied

Very interesting. So both retire like crazy when they are down, but Djokovic is a little more believable overall.

 

[Newballsplease872]

Because he's one of the healthiest person on tour.

He fakes off-clay to take the sheen of the wins people get against him

 

[Milanez82]

Very interesting. So both retire like crazy when they are down, but Djokovic is a little more believable overall.

Retiring 10 or 14 times in 1200 or whatever matches they played is far from retire like crazy.

Federer never retiring is really the crazy achievement.

 

[wangs78]

Nadal centers all of his training and rest/rehab around clay. He knows that his dominance on clay is what gives him the points/ranking, confidence and fearsome aura with opponents for the entire season so he makes 100% sure he takes enough rest to be ready when clay starts. And yes, clay allows you to stop and slide after an aggressive movement, which is much easier on the body than doing so on hard. Clay requires more stamina for sure, but Nadal has plenty of that.

 

[Znak]

I'm not, not saying you're Lukas, but I'm also not saying you're a psyop?

 

[jm1980]

So you will tell me that other players retire less frequently on clay too? Show me the numbers.

Running the numbers on a dataset of 68,844 tour matches from 2000 to 2022, we have:

Surface	Matches	Retirements
Hard	37,398	1,105 (2.95%)
Clay	22,363	676 (3.02%)
Grass	7,044	220 (3.12%)
Carpet	2,039	53 (2.60%)

The numbers say more players retire mid-match on clay than on HC; but it's not a big difference

 

[socallefty]

Nadal centers all of his training and rest/rehab around clay.

Is he too lazy to try and train for the entire season and especially for the tournaments in Australia at the start of the year right after the off-season? What is the reason to get injured so much at the start of the year?

 

[Federer_pilon]

Running the numbers on a dataset of 68,844 tour matches from 2000 to 2022, we have:

Surface	Matches	Retirements
Hard	37,398	1,105 (2.95%)
Clay	22,363	676 (3.02%)
Grass	7,044	220 (3.12%)
Carpet	2,039	53 (2.60%)

The numbers say more players retire mid-match on clay than on HC; but it's not a big difference

Here's something else to think about. Do you think that the average player tends to retire more on clay because the surface requires more grinding and they're less willing to put their injured body through it? Nadal of course is the outlier here because he's just so good on the surface.

 

[jm1980]

You don't need numbers, just know physics, since one can't really change dirrections abruptly on clay, innertia doesn't take such a toll on your joints...
Even truer for heavier guys since F= ma (mass multiplied by acceleration).

This is the type of question/thread that only someone who's never played the sport or even put any meaningful thought watching tennis besides following the ball bounce from one side of the net to the other.

In short, clay gives you much more time to set up and strike the ball than any other surface, so you're not rushing/ on a full stretch to reach a ball half the time. And after you sprint to hit the ball you don't come to a sudden stop that adds an unreal amount of stress to soft tissue.

Clay being easier on the body would be the reason he doesn't get hurt on it as much. If you're not already aware of that you can google it and find numerous articles about it.

Clay is easier on the body if you look at it in nearly complete isolation of a single shot, that is true.
But clay encourages longer rallies. An ace or a serve + forehand put away on HC is not going to be as taxing on the body as a 6+ shot rally on clay.
Clay also has more unpredictable bounces, that can result in needing to make last second adjustments to your shot

Something else worth noting is that HC courts used on the pro tour have an acrylic layer on top for additional cushioning; it's not the same as the concrete courts you'll find in most recreational play

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Retiring 10 or 14 times in 1200 or whatever matches they played is far from retire like crazy.

Federer never retiring is really the crazy achievement.

I meant crazy relative to Fed. Absolutely crazy? I dunno, would have to compare to all other players.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Hi, I am a TTW New User and I'd like to discuss some important topics spontaneously.

 

[Rosstour]

Actually I am curious and genuinely wondering, has Nadal ever been injured or retired when he was leading a match? What about Federer or Djokovic?

Been trying to get good numbers on this all day. All I can find is one match where he and Hewitt split sets and he retired after that. But otherwise no, they were all when he was trailing. It's a bad look

 

[The_Order]

Been trying to get good numbers on this all day. All I can find is one match where he and Hewitt split sets and he retired after that. But otherwise no, they were all when he was trailing. It's a bad look

He took MTO when he was leading against Del Potro in Wimbledon 2011 and when he was beating Thiem in RG18 final...

There are many other times too... stop this nonsense... for you to be convinced a player is injured they literally need to be amputated... you were even sus over Federer's knee...

There's only one player we need to be sus about and it's a guy who not only gets injured but either:
a) plays better whilst injured or
b) is putting on an act to distract his opponents

... I'll let you decide which of the two but I think we all know which it is...

 

[Mustard]

Been trying to get good numbers on this all day. All I can find is one match where he and Hewitt split sets and he retired after that. But otherwise no, they were all when he was trailing. It's a bad look

Apparently, Nadal has retired from 10 matches, 9 while trailing. The other one was at 2006 Queen's Club, where Nadal retired at 1 set all, immediately after the second set, against Hewitt. Djokovic has retired from 14 matches, 12 times while behind, another time in a first set tiebreak, and another while ahead.

The vast majority of retirements are by players who are trailing in a match. It's considerably rarer that the player winning a match retires. Even if you are injured, if you are winning and playing well then your pain threshold is higher.

 

[ChrisRF]

Running the numbers on a dataset of 68,844 tour matches from 2000 to 2022, we have:

Surface	Matches	Retirements
Hard	37,398	1,105 (2.95%)
Clay	22,363	676 (3.02%)
Grass	7,044	220 (3.12%)
Carpet	2,039	53 (2.60%)

The numbers say more players retire mid-match on clay than on HC; but it's not a big difference

I suspect that grass is only on top percentage wise because the grass season around Wimbledon is so short that the proportion of best of 5 matches is just higher in comparison to the other surfaces. And of course in best of 5 there is more time to get injured and retire.

Carpet with almost no best of 5 at all is the opposite example.

 

[The_Order]

Apparently, Nadal has retired from 10 matches, 9 while trailing. The other one was at 2006 Queen's Club, where Nadal retired at 1 set all, immediately after the second set, against Hewitt. Djokovic has retired from 14 matches, 12 times while behind, another time in a first set tiebreak, and another while ahead.

The vast majority of retirements are by players who are trailing in a match. It's considerably rarer that the player winning a match retires. Even if you are injured, if you are winning and playing well then your pain threshold is higher.

Not only that but players usually won't retire straight away (some rare cases like Zed at RG last year which was understandable) so even if they are leading a match, they will try to keep playing.

Of course continuing whilst injured makes sense to start losing and falling behind... they don't retire until it's obvious they have no chance.

AO18 perfect example, Nadal was winning when he got injured... I don't care down a break in the 4th... that means NOTHING to healthy Nadal... injured Nadal however... yeah little chance he's going to peg the break back... so even though that'll count as a retirement when he was losing... the fact is, he was winning when he got injured...

 

[jm1980]

Very interesting. So both retire like crazy when they are down, but Djokovic is a little more believable overall.

Players retire when down from most matches. Using the same dataset (2000-22):

Total retirements: 2,054
Retired while down: 1,769 (86.1%)
Retired while tied: 118 (5.7%)
Retired while up: 167 (8.1%)