Nadal's Switch from Clay to Grass results Highlites his One dimensional game?

DoubleDeuce

Hall of Fame
Ok, he has won two Ws, but he did that during his prime and when he was fit and when he could grind and retrieve the ball back consistently. To win more W he would need more verity in his game just like Fed did well passed his prime.

Does his results highlight his one dimensional game? How many serve and volley did you see? He never had a spectacular first serve and when he receives he simply stays back and grinds the ball and rely on his top spin FH.
 

Clarky21

Banned
Does DoubleDeuce coming out of hiding to post tripe when Nadal loses, highlight his one dimensional posting abilities?
 

yemenmocha

Professional
To an extent, yes.

As Jim Courier pointed out in an interview today, the fresh new slippery court doesn't favor Nadal's playstyle nearly as well as when much of the court has changed by the 2nd week.

I'd love to see where Nadal stands if we had a proper balance & variety of court speeds like we had in previous decades, and is sorely missing today.
 

DoubleDeuce

Hall of Fame
To an extent, yes.

As Jim Courier pointed out in an interview today, the fresh new slippery court doesn't favor Nadal's playstyle nearly as well as when much of the court has changed by the 2nd week.

I'd love to see where Nadal stands if we had a proper balance & variety of court speeds like we had in previous decades, and is sorely missing today.
But he won W less than a decade ago. You are saying the conditions changes so much from first to second that a player like Nadal cant handle it???

His fans will say he was injured. Ok let's say he was but he still has to have enough skills to make it to the second week.
 

bullfan

Legend
But he won W less than a decade ago. You are saying the conditions changes so much from first to second that a player like Nadal cant handle it???

His fans will say he was injured. Ok let's say he was but he still has to have enough skills to make it to the second week.
I didn't see the match, I was at work. Just saw the score go against Nadal, and figured his opponent was playing better, which turned out to be the case.

Nadal has made the finals 5 times, and won twice. Not to shabby of a record on grass if you ask me. Nadal is aging and obviously his play on grass has taken a huge hit.
 

Defcon

Hall of Fame
It's not 1-dimensional as in, he's not just clay court retriever.

But Rafa is very very very far from being an all court player which his fans like to pretend.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
But Rafa is very very very far from being an all court player which his fans like to pretend.
Great post. Anyone with a objective mind can think of the Cilic match in Beijing, Davy in Shanghai, Rosol at Wimbledon, etc - to realize that a player with the right strategy can push him around and way out of his comfort zone on faster tracks.
 

zam88

Professional
But Rafa is very very very far from being an all court player which his fans like to pretend.
look, i don't like rafa.

But if you win a career grand slam and have multiple masters and finals appearances on every surface, you're one damn fine all court player.

Who's a better all court player other than the GOAT? and I mean historically not just right now
 

yemenmocha

Professional
look, i don't like rafa.

But if you win a career grand slam and have multiple masters and finals appearances on every surface, you're one damn fine all court player.

Who's a better all court player other than the GOAT? and I mean historically not just right now

There's an asterisk next to that accomplishment when there's been such an obvious switch to making all surfaces play slow. If hardcourts were as fast as they were in previous decades then that same accomplishment meant something very different. In addition, the fact that all surfaces are various degrees of slow means that the entire field has been filtered to the point where Nadal is not only able to win on (relatively) slow grass, but the field of opponents are also baseliners of varying degrees, or perhaps all courters. Prime 90's S&V players on normal, fast grass would be a very different challenge than beating fellow baseliners on relatively slow grass.
 

anantak2k

Semi-Pro
There's an asterisk next to that accomplishment when there's been such an obvious switch to making all surfaces play slow. If hardcourts were as fast as they were in previous decades then that same accomplishment meant something very different. In addition, the fact that all surfaces are various degrees of slow means that the entire field has been filtered to the point where Nadal is not only able to win on (relatively) slow grass, but the field of opponents are also baseliners of varying degrees, or perhaps all courters. Prime 90's S&V players on normal, fast grass would be a very different challenge than beating fellow baseliners on relatively slow grass.
It kind of makes sense. One of the greatest defensive baselines playing against a field of other baseliners... Surface doesn't even matter anymore at this point.
 

Candide

Hall of Fame
He can play on grass but the dumbass decided not to play a warmup tournament. Big, big mistake. Listening to the Uncle Toni brains trust did not help him here.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Ok, he has won two Ws, but he did that during his prime and when he was fit and when he could grind and retrieve the ball back consistently. To win more W he would need more verity in his game just like Fed did well passed his prime.

Does his results highlight his one dimensional game? How many serve and volley did you see? He never had a spectacular first serve and when he receives he simply stays back and grinds the ball and rely on his top spin FH.
If so, how did he beat Roger Federer and win the Wimbledon already ??
 

above bored

Semi-Pro
look, i don't like rafa.

But if you win a career grand slam and have multiple masters and finals appearances on every surface, you're one damn fine all court player.

Who's a better all court player other than the GOAT? and I mean historically not just right now
An all-court player is one who uses a variety of strategies and utilise all parts of the court. It reflects the style or manner in which one wins, not that someone wins. You could have no majors or titles, yet still be an all-court player. It has nothing to do with being able to win titles on all surfaces.

Despite his occasional trips to the net, they are far too rare for Nadal to be classed as an all-court player, not to mention he almost never serve and volleys. All-court players are also offensive players, which is not reflected in Nadal's defensive baseline style, where he plays further behind the baseline than any other player 90% of the time and tries to hit with as much topspin as possible on practically every single ball. All-court players are on the front foot.
 

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
If so, how did he beat Roger Federer and win the Wimbledon already ??
Like OP says, if he cannot grind and play defense hes toast, he does not have the veriety in his game to go to when he needs to keep the points short.
How many serve and volley did you see from him? How many times did he go to the net? How many for Darcis?

He is one dimensional alright.
 

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
An all-court player is one who uses a variety of strategies and utilise all parts of the court. It reflects the style or manner in which one wins, not that someone wins. You could have no majors or titles, yet still be an all-court player. It has nothing to do with being able to win titles on all surfaces.

Despite his occasional trips to the net, they are far too rare for Nadal to be classed as an all-court player, not to mention he almost never serve and volleys. All-court players are also offensive players, which is not reflected in Nadal's defensive baseline style, where he plays further behind the baseline than any other player 90% of the time and tries to hit with as much topspin as possible on practically every single ball. All-court players are on the front foot.
Great post. Specially the b part.
If only Nadalista could get it.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Like OP says, if he cannot grind and play defense hes toast, he does not have the veriety in his game to go to when he needs to keep the points short.
How many serve and volley did you see from him? How many times did he go to the net? How many for Darcis?

He is one dimensional alright.
OK then how did he Beat Roger Federer and win Wimbledon 2 times ? 1 dimension game does not allow that to happen. ASK Lendle :?
 

Brett UK

Semi-Pro
Ok, he has won two Ws, but he did that during his prime and when he was fit and when he could grind and retrieve the ball back consistently. To win more W he would need more verity in his game just like Fed did well passed his prime.

Does his results highlight his one dimensional game? How many serve and volley did you see? He never had a spectacular first serve and when he receives he simply stays back and grinds the ball and rely on his top spin FH.
Post is a bit too harsh, but as nadal gets older his record starts to look too clay dominated.
 

namelessone

Legend
So I take it Nadal wasn't one dimensional in the 2006-2011 timeframe when he made 5 finals in WB but he became more one-dimensional in the last 2 years?
 

Magnus

Legend
Nadal doesn't have a one dimensional game. He hits droppers, volleys, he can slice the ball, and he can hit great overheads. These guys are proffesional and they know every shot in the book. Nadal sometimes resorts to his passive game and that's when he looks one dimensional but that's at time an advantage, because when things aren't going well for Nadal, he goes back to the basics, where Fed's variety hurts him when things go wrong for him.

Nadal's tennis is very legit. His behavior isn't.
 

Candide

Hall of Fame
Nadal's tennis is very legit. His behavior isn't.
I would have to agree that his game is one dimensional. But that's not necessarily a bad thing - except aesthetically. Being one dimensional is legit. It's not like he's breaking the rules. It doesn't mean one can't be successful either if that one dimension is unbelievably strong. Most people just find an all court game more exciting and appealing to watch. I do agree with you though that his on court coaching and time wasting shenanigans are massively frustrating and unsportsmanlike.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Nadal doesn't have a one dimensional game. He hits droppers, volleys, he can slice the ball, and he can hit great overheads. These guys are proffesional and they know every shot in the book. Nadal sometimes resorts to his passive game and that's when he looks one dimensional but that's at time an advantage, because when things aren't going well for Nadal, he goes back to the basics, where Fed's variety hurts him when things go wrong for him.

Nadal's tennis is very legit. His behavior isn't.
So far the only reasonable post made by someone who doesn't like Nadal.

Meanwhile we have had literally over ten threads gloating about Rafa's loss.

I wonder if in the (unlikely) event Federer gets upset early, how many Nadal fans will do the same...

OP's post makes no sense; otherwise Federer's game is also one dimensional as he's only won once there and was upset early before.
 

Candide

Hall of Fame
So far the only reasonable post made by someone who doesn't like Nadal.

Meanwhile we have had literally over ten threads gloating about Rafa's loss.

I wonder if in the (unlikely) event Federer gets upset early, how many Nadal fans will do the same...

OP's post makes no sense; otherwise Federer's game is also one dimensional as he's only won once there and was upset early before.
Once again, being one dimensional is not necessarily a criticism except in a value judgement, aesthetic sense. Nadal's game is massively one dimensional as are many other successful pro's right now. Proper all court tennis is an anachronism as we see when guys like Llodra try to apply it against the base line bangers. Of course Rafa can hit every shot but he chooses to base his game on grinding and defense and has been massively successful with it. This is where a lot of the Federer/Nadal animosity comes from I think.
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
Ok, he has won two Ws, but he did that during his prime and when he was fit and when he could grind and retrieve the ball back consistently. To win more W he would need more verity in his game just like Fed did well passed his prime.

Does his results highlight his one dimensional game? How many serve and volley did you see? He never had a spectacular first serve and when he receives he simply stays back and grinds the ball and rely on his top spin FH.
Oh I quite agree. I mean he has NEVER won wimbledon! You must be joking
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
Ok, he has won two Ws, but he did that during his prime and when he was fit and when he could grind and retrieve the ball back consistently. To win more W he would need more verity in his game just like Fed did well passed his prime.

Does his results highlight his one dimensional game? How many serve and volley did you see? He never had a spectacular first serve and when he receives he simply stays back and grinds the ball and rely on his top spin FH.
2008, Andreas Beck, Gulbis (19), Kiefer, Youzni, Murray, Schuttler, Federer

2010, Nishikori, Haase, Petzschner, P-H Mathieu, Soderling, Murray, Berdich

Clearly pathetic opposition during the first week helped him both times.
 

Magnetite

Professional
It highlights the fact that he didn't play a warm-up tournament and his game is not well suited to grass, unless it's dry, and patchy.

Basically, once the baseline looks more like dirt in the second week, Nadal excels.

Until then, he's on shaky ground.
 

Scorch

Rookie
As many ex-player commentators have already said (and I generally take their views as less baised than those found here!) this just shows that Rafa's knees are now at a stage where the movement required on grass is troublesome - especially when Rafa has played a lot of tennis and has little opportunity to practice before switching surfaces.

This has huge implications for Rafa's future performances on grass given the structure of the season. It also has implications with regards to his ability to play on hard courts week-in-week-out (given that hard courts also have different demands on the body compared to clay).

I'm no huge fan of Rafa but I can't fault his conduct in losing yesterday, given how gutted he must be I think he was very gracious. The uglier side of tennis seems to be found on the internet, not on at the actual tournaments.
 

namelessone

Legend
2008, Andreas Beck, Gulbis (19), Kiefer, Youzni, Murray, Schuttler, Federer

2010, Nishikori, Haase, Petzschner, P-H Mathieu, Soderling, Murray, Berdich

Clearly pathetic opposition during the first week helped him both times.
:)

I'm pretty sure that most of Nadal's first week opponents in 2006-2011 period(when he made 5 finals) were better ranked than Rosol or Darcis.

And funny that you should talk about 2010 opposition, wasn't he pushed to five by both Petzschner and Haase?

Nadal's first week encounters:

Bogdanovic,Kendrick,Agassi,Fish,Soderling,Eschauer,Beck,Gulbis,Kiefer,Nishikori,Haase,Petzschner,Russell,Sweeting,Muller.
 

Crisstti

Legend
As many ex-player commentators have already said (and I generally take their views as less baised than those found here!) this just shows that Rafa's knees are now at a stage where the movement required on grass is troublesome - especially when Rafa has played a lot of tennis and has little opportunity to practice before switching surfaces.

This has huge implications for Rafa's future performances on grass given the structure of the season. It also has implications with regards to his ability to play on hard courts week-in-week-out (given that hard courts also have different demands on the body compared to clay).

I'm no huge fan of Rafa but I can't fault his conduct in losing yesterday, given how gutted he must be I think he was very gracious. The uglier side of tennis seems to be found on the internet, not on at the actual tournaments.
It does, and it's very worrying. Guess we'll just have to see.
 

rh310

Hall of Fame
The problem Nadal had in this match was his inability to generate his typical extreme topspin, most probably due to not being adjusted to grass before his first round match. He had the bad luck to combine lack of preparation for the surface with a player who was hitting a tougher forehand than he could adjust to on the fly.

If he'd played Halle I think he'd have adjusted just fine and the result would have been different.

Without being able to leverage his spaghetti stringing, Nadal is nothing out of the ordinary. A middle tier Spaniard clay court specialist with maybe a couple of FOs and mediocre results on other surfaces.

Without his insane topspin, he's nothing. The proof is in his match results.

Sampras had a genetic defect which definitely impacted his stamina on a surface which tests stamina: Clay.
 

Noltae

Rookie
Lets just assume for one moment that Rafa is done - his knees are gone and his game has become one dimensional... Does that make you feel good for yourself? Will the tour will be better for those facts? How sad and pathetic - I suggest such tennis 'fans' go follow the wrestling instead!
 
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