Nadals time violations between points

Tennisanity said:
Extra time between points pads Nadal's slam count.
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FedFosterWallace said:
It's wild that this topic still gets fresh threads. Career of abusing the rules, and gets a pass because of the trophies (acquired via unsporting play, in many cases).
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BeatlesFan said:
If he literally was forced to play by the rules and never was allowed more than 20 seconds, maybe he'd have no majors. He's so ridiculously wedded to his serving ritual that any disruption might have meant zero slams.
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A rule I have never understood as well is that you technically have to "play to the servers speed" so for example today, if Haase served a ball at Nadal while he's picking his butt and playing with his hair and clearly not ready to receive, wouldn't that be a point awarded to Haase because Nadal not playing to the speed of the server?
 
Centre Court said:
A rule I have never understood as well is that you technically have to "play to the servers speed" so for example today, if Haase served a ball at Nadal while he's picking his butt and playing with his hair and clearly not ready to receive, wouldn't that be a point awarded to Haase because Nadal not playing to the speed of the server?
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I think they changed that rule. You have to wait for your opponent now.

Tennis allows players to go over the 20 sec rule, then complain about the length of matches. Makes sense :)
 
Chadillac said:
I think they changed that rule. You have to wait for your opponent now.

Tennis allows players to go over the 20 sec rule, then complain about the length of matches. Makes sense :)
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Oh right, I just think it's a bit crazy for speed players who are ready to serve to look down the line to see Rafa playing with his shorts and hair and then have to stop and wait around, I suppose it's not a bad thing though if it's a long match and you want to sneak in some rest time
 
Centre Court said:
Just listening to the commentary on Nadals match right now as he is playing Haase and Mark Petchey is saying Nadal is taking too long between points played, so John Inverdale timed him and he is averaging around 40 seconds in between points. The time allowed is 20 so I believe. I like Nadal but shouldn't umpires be warning him for this ?
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Mark Petchey thinks the TV is only for Nadal. When Djokovic was given one, he said it's time the ATP sorted this issue because the players are out there doing their best and they don't need the hassle. They should just scrap it. Viewers don't sit there with their stop watch and only the umpire knows when he starts counting. How many matches did Petchey win as a pro? He has no clue what it's like to play week in week out getting to the business end of tournaments every other week and I know he never played more than 2 or 3 rounds in any tournament.
 
Backspin1183 said:
Djokovic was averaging 25 seconds in the 2nd round match. I thought Rafa was quicker between points in their respective matches. I could be wrong. Does anyone have the stats?
Sousa averaged 22 seconds and I don't think he is slow between points.
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22 is relatively fast. The vast majority average 20+ seconds. Which is why I think 25 seconds should be the rule and then actually be enforced.
Gary Duane said:
That's not how it is timed when you see stats about average seconds between serves.
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@DRII - Gary's right. A point is over, when the ball is out or hit for a winner and bounces twice.

"ojo rojo said:
2womazq.jpg
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Now there's some BP I like to see!
 
The time wasting is mostly about ball bouncing. Just count the number of times Nadal and Djokovic bounce the ball.

It's pretty even. Nadal bounced more with his racket while doing his rituals. Novak bounces more with his hand, which is his ritual.

Neither of them plays fast.

Two of the Big Three are slow. That's not going to change.

It's not the end of the world. Live I wouldn't care.

At home I give the match a 15 to 30 minute head start, then catch up fast-forwarding through ball bouncing, when I'm not watching replays.

People who hate Nadal really need to get a new talking point...
 
What's going to happen when the second serve is eliminated?
 
Chadillac said:
I think they changed that rule. You have to wait for your opponent now.

Tennis allows players to go over the 20 sec rule, then complain about the length of matches. Makes sense :)
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No, the receiver ain't allowed to delay the server. The receiver can receive a violation if his actions are delaying the pace of the server. See below

@Centre Court @DRII @Gary Duane
ITF, 2017, p. 112: http://www.itftennis.com/media/253215/253215.pdf

D. TIME VIOLATION / DELAY OF GAME Following the expiration of the warm-up period play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twenty (20) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the point until the time the ball is struck for the first serve of the next point. If such serve is a fault then the second serve must be struck by the server without delay. When changing ends a maximum of ninety (90) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the game until the time the first serve is struck for the next game. If such first serve is a fault the second serve must be struck by the server without delay. However, after the first game of each set and during a tie-break, play shall be continuous and the players shall change ends without a rest period. At the conclusion of each set, regardless of the score, there shall be a set break of one hundred and twenty (120) seconds from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the set until the time the first serve is struck for the next set. If a set ends after an even number of games, there shall be no change of ends until after the first game of the next set. The receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready. A Time Violation may be issued prior to the expiration of twenty (20) seconds if the receiver’s actions are delaying the reasonable pace of the server.
 
DRII said:
as usual, fedephants and Nadal haters live in their own fantasy world.

I suggest, as I usually do, when Nadal and 'cheating' is mentioned; google Federer peds (2017) and Nadal peds (2017) and see which has the greater number of results.

here's a clue, it isn't Nadal!
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Thee is no way in my mind either are using them, they would risk losing too much and they are tested more than anyone
 
Chanwan said:
No, the receiver ain't allowed to delay the server. The receiver can receive a violation if his actions are delaying the pace of the server. See below

@Centre Court @DRII @Gary Duane
ITF, 2017, p. 112: http://www.itftennis.com/media/253215/253215.pdf

D. TIME VIOLATION / DELAY OF GAME Following the expiration of the warm-up period play shall be continuous and a player shall not unreasonably delay a match for any cause. A maximum of twenty (20) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the point until the time the ball is struck for the first serve of the next point. If such serve is a fault then the second serve must be struck by the server without delay. When changing ends a maximum of ninety (90) seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the game until the time the first serve is struck for the next game. If such first serve is a fault the second serve must be struck by the server without delay. However, after the first game of each set and during a tie-break, play shall be continuous and the players shall change ends without a rest period. At the conclusion of each set, regardless of the score, there shall be a set break of one hundred and twenty (120) seconds from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the set until the time the first serve is struck for the next set. If a set ends after an even number of games, there shall be no change of ends until after the first game of the next set. The receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready. A Time Violation may be issued prior to the expiration of twenty (20) seconds if the receiver’s actions are delaying the reasonable pace of the server.
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The rule is useless because they dont define "reasonable"

Thanks for digging up the rule
 
This is why I often find it hard to watch Nadal. Especially if he's playing Djokovic. If it's not butt picking it's ball bouncing.

Prefer watching Federer who just gets on with it and allows for a smooth transition between points.
 
KINGROGER said:
This is why I often find it hard to watch Nadal. Especially if he's playing Djokovic. If it's not butt picking it's ball bouncing.

Prefer watching Federer who just gets on with it and allows for a smooth transition between points.
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Does anyone still have that side by side video with fed and nadal? Fed served a complete game in the same time nadal took between points.
 
Why has no one posted the average time between points stats yet?
How is Nadal averaging 30+ seconds and closing matches under 2 hours? Is he ending points in 2-3 shots?
 
ultron1969 said:
One of the big reasons I don't watch as much as I used to. They all do it but he is the worst. And the 8373928372 ball bounces of joker. Some of us own houses. And if I spent my time waiting for these folks to play it would fall apart. I miss the days of agassi playing like he was on speed.
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ultron

Agassi---Speed? Don't you mean Coke!!! Or that 1932 patented Japanese invention Crystal Meth?

Aloha
 
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The other day, Chris Bradnam was complaining about Djokovic bouncing the ball saying that bouncing the ball isn't part of the service routine???????

Now that Federer thinks he has solved Rafa this rule will be quietly forgotten.
 
Noveson said:
Lol he's over it 95% of serves, but so is a huge portion of the Tour. Most of the top guys average over 20 seconds. 40 seconds is stupid but the rule shouldn't be 20 if just about every player breaks it.
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Agreed. I believe it should be 25 seconds + shot clock. Repeated offenders (like Nadal) must not be allowed to compete.
 
D.Nalby12 said:
Agreed. I believe it should be 25 seconds + shot clock. Repeated offenders (like Nadal) must not be allowed to compete.
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"Repeated offenders (like Nadal) must not be allowed to compete."
How will they sell the tickets? Don't say Fed, because tournaments have done very well in his absence.
 
clayqueen said:
The other day, Chris Bradnam was complaining about Djokovic bouncing the ball saying that bouncing the ball isn't part of the service routine???????

Now that Federer thinks he has solved Rafa this rule will be quietly forgotten.
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what rule will be forgotten? You can't help but throw shade on Fed, can you? He did ask the umpire about time violation in the AO final, btw,, if you're referring to the clearly elucidated rule which some umpires seem to have almost been bludgeoned into pretending doesn't exist
 
BeatlesFan said:
If he literally was forced to play by the rules and never was allowed more than 20 seconds, maybe he'd have no majors. He's so ridiculously wedded to his serving ritual that any disruption might have meant zero slams.
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He would find a way to adapt but lose a lot of time, probably years until he overcomes his anxiety. Coria had similar problem and sadly he couldnt overcome it. Probably ATP doesnt want to risk the same thing to happen with Raffa.

clayqueen said:
"Repeated offenders (like Nadal) must not be allowed to compete."
How will they sell the tickets? Don't say Fed, because tournaments have done very well in his absence.
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Federer is a level above Nadal, in terms of selling tickets ...
 
Nadal also quite clearly ramps up the sound of his grunting mid-rally to try to intimidate the opponent out of the point.
 
4-string said:
Nadal's time wasting is annoying, but I'd rather watch that than this:

9f0d8ee051db13829ddd5c76078e4961.jpg


Getting more desperate every day it seems. [emoji849]
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Agreed, Nadal's fans are getting so desperate that they have to bring Novak to every thread.
Ah, wait, that is not what you meant to say...
 
dr325i said:
Agreed, Nadal's fans are getting so desperate that they have to bring Novak to every thread.
Ah, wait, that is not what you meant to say...
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Trying to be clever, but mistaking me for being a Nadal fan? Keep trying. [emoji1303][emoji16]
 
pame said:
what rule will be forgotten? You can't help but throw shade on Fed, can you? He did ask the umpire about time violation in the AO final, btw,, if you're referring to the clearly elucidated rule which some umpires seem to have almost been bludgeoned into pretending doesn't exist
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Federer was behind the enforcement of a rule that had been ignored for decades.
 
clayqueen said:
Federer was behind the enforcement of a rule that had been ignored for decades.
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No it hadn't been ignored for decades; in fact, Lendl was largely responsible for its being shortened from 30 and 35 secs to 20 and 25 secs because he was abusing it by standing doing nothing until the time ran out. After that, nobody egregiously flouted it until last decade.

Edit *30 and 35 - that may have been 25 and 30 secs, I'll have to double-check
 
pame said:
No it hadn't been ignored for decades; in fact, Lendl was largely responsible for its being shortened from 30 and 35 secs to 20 and 25 secs because he was abusing it by standing doing nothing until the time ran out. After that, nobody egregiously flouted it until last decade.
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Lendl played in the 80s, that's 3 decades ago. How on earth do you know that no one had flouted the rule since Lendl when no one was counting? Also, the fact that they reduced it from 35 seconds to 20 & 25 seconds prove that there is nothing scientific about it They are just figures plucked from the air. The reason it was introduced in the first place was because Nastase used to waste time interacting with the crowd and arguing with the umpire; nothing to do with actually playing.
 
Here it is..
"stalling was up to the umpire's discretion until 1979. And then they made it either 30 (ATP) or 25 seconds (ITF).
But once those limits were established, players would frequently take that long and more because now they were given that allowed time, instead of the umpire being able to say they were stalling after less time. Lendl would notoriously take 29 seconds almost every time and other players would go over and depend on the umpire's leniency.

So a few years later, the ITF later reduced the limit to 20 seconds, I believe in 1995, after several incidents of long matches and the ATP reduced their limit to 25 seconds"
 
Bukmeikara said:
He would find a way to adapt but lose a lot of time, probably years until he overcomes his anxiety. Coria had similar problem and sadly he couldnt overcome it. Probably ATP doesnt want to risk the same thing to happen with Raffa.



Federer is a level above Nadal, in terms of selling tickets ...
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You don't know that for a fact. These are the things that Fedfans want to believe. According to the commies, RG has sold more tickets this year than last year and they say more people are bothering to go and watch the matches this year which is unusual for the French.
 
clayqueen said:
You don't know that for a fact. These are the things that Fedfans want to believe. According to the commies, RG has sold more tickets this year than last year and they say more people are bothering to go and watch the matches this year which is unusual for the French.
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Well, let's settle for "Federer is a level above Nadal", shall we? :p
 
Bartelby said:
The ITF should increase the limit to 25 and come to an accord witht the ATP on a more rigorous policing of the rule.
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The wont do it until Djokovic and Nadal are active. Both of them are the golden goose type and the ATP wont risk to hurt their success or make them unhappy. As far as I know Borg quit tennis because they didnt alow him to play fewer events, surely a painfull experience.
 
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