Nadal's toughest opponent in a RG final?

[vanioMan]

I've not included Federer (08), Soderling (10), Ferrer (13), Wawrinka (17) and Thiem (18) as they were straight sets.

Oddly enough, I think it might be Puerta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAlY5j57cT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjjJnuPReVY

 

[georgemccauley]

Don’t want to be mainstream, but Novak no?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ADuck]

I've always said Puerta played well in that final. He was on drugs too and young teenage Nadal still beat him.

 

[clout]

It’s gotta be 2012 or 2014 Novak. Novak was in good shape for the first set and a half in 2014, and in 2012, he was blowing Rafa off the court in set 3 and 4, but somehow Rafa managed to pull it out 7-5 in the fourth set

 

[skypadq]

mariano puerta , just one point away from five set
maybe one point away doper won 05 RG
just i don 't care about nadal
puerta played so well in first set at 05 RG final

 

[weakera]

Novak 2012.

 

[King No1e]

2012 Djokovic. Wasn't too far from unbeatable Peakovic that had crushed Nadal at Madrid and Rome 2011, as evidenced by him blowing Nadal off the court for a set and a half. Still ended up with a relatively one sided scoreline. Another reason why 2012 Nadal was his clay peak. Federer was never as good on clay as Djokovic was around that time, especially against Nadal.
If Nadal had faced Federer in the SF that year, I'd have no doubt he would replicate the 2008 demolition. (A huge step up from 2011, where he struggled to beat Fed and would've had a gladiator fight if Djoker made the final instead.)

 

[Standaa]

2012 Djokovic, unreal level from both in that final

that match badly needed a fifth set, still pissed about it

 

[skypadq]

alos maybe 2011 federer as well
just fed need one good drop shot
but that drop shot was out
that point was set point
5-2 ( ad - 40 ) i stongly feel if fed had won that first set , wins that RG

 

[King No1e]

2012 Djokovic, unreal level from both in that final

that match badly needed a fifth set, still pissed about it

An epic 4th set won by Djokovic...that match would've mirrored Wimbledon 08 final.
Unfortunately untestable, therefore unprovable, therefore irrelevant....

 

[King No1e]

alos maybe 2011 federer as well
just fed need one good drop shot
but that drop shot was out
that point was set point
5-2 ( ad - 40 ) i stongly feel if fed had won that first set , wins that RG

Don't underestimate Nadal's ability to out grind zoning opponents. I would've still picked him to win if Federer won the set.

 

[Standaa]

An epic 4th set won by Djokovic...that match would've mirrored Wimbledon 08 final.
Unfortunately untestable, therefore unprovable, therefore irrelevant....

I’d even say Djokovic played better in the 12 F than in their SF in 2013, he’s just faced a better Nadal.

 

[skypadq]

Don't underestimate Nadal's ability to out grind zoning opponents. I would've still picked him to win if Federer won the set.

okay man okay , i don 't want to fight just wish

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

I've always said Puerta played well in that final. He was on drugs too and young teenage Nadal still beat him.

I see what you did(n't) there.

 

[NatF]

For those saying 2012 Djokovic was getting mauled by Nadal in the 2012 final until the damp conditions blunted Nadal's game, that match is straight sets otherwise.

In terms of closeness it's probably Puerta, level of play? Not sure.

 

[ibbi]

Puerta on account of the fact he was doping and Rafa was a pup, Federer 11 for me pushed Rafa the hardest for 3 sets, with Thiem this year not far behind in terms of how well he played for 2 sets. Overall maybe Federer 2007? I would probably pick 2011 if I'm singling one out. The last set is a disservice to how competitive that match was for so long, especially to those of us that remember that dropshot.

 

[BeatlesFan]

The answer has to be Novak. I can't imagine anyone thinking Puerta is anywhere on the same planet as Novak in terms of quality. Novak is an ATG, obviously he's the tougher opponent than Puerta, who won three titles in his entire career!

 

[ibbi]

The answer has to be Novak. I can't imagine anyone thinking Puerta is anywhere on the same planet as Novak in terms of quality. Novak is an ATG, obviously he's the tougher opponent than Puerta, who won three titles in his entire career!

Yeah, but this thread is clearly asking about in the specific final, and Novak wasn't very good in either of the finals they played except for the little bit where the weather turned in 2012.

 

[Standaa]

For those saying 2012 Djokovic was getting mauled by Nadal in the 2012 final until the damp conditions blunted Nadal's game, that match is straight sets otherwise.

In terms of closeness it's probably Puerta, level of play? Not sure.

I agree Djoker made too many mistakes in the first two sets, but I think the level he displayed in the third set was higher than anything the rest of the other players shown in their finals. Overall the third set of the match offered a higher quality tennis from both men than anything from the other options in the poll.

 

[guitarra]

Dominic Thiem 2019 - if we look only at the first two sets. Then fatigue got to him unfortunately (sure Nadal upped his level too).

 

[Shaolin]

Novak by far.

Puerta doesn't count anyway, dirty doper in a slam final like Korda. Glad he at least didn't win.

 

[Sysyphus]

wasn't 2012 nolé on his way to getting blown out in straights until it turned into a mud-bathing contest? That's what I seem to recall.

It could still be the correct answer of course, but I feel it adds some context to the whole shebang.

The bitter reality is that Rafaello has had a comfortable margin in every single one of his 15–16 RG finals.

 

[Pheasant]

Here are Nadal's numbers against the opponents above:

2005 Puerta: DR=1.17, broken 3 times, broke opponent 8 times
2006 Federer: DR=1.20, broken 3 times, broke opponent 4 times
2007 Federer: DR=1.14, broken 1 time, broke opponent 4 times
2011 Federer: DR=1.08, broken 5 times, broke opponent 7 times
2012 Djoker: DR=1.10, broken 7 times, broke opponent 9 times
2014 Djoker: DR=1.18, broken 3 times, broke opponent 6 times



notes: 2007 Federer was only 1/17 on break point opportunities. 2012 Djoker broke Nadal 7 times in 10 changes, which is insanely clutch.

I guess we need to define tough. Nadal's paper-thing dominance ratio over 2011 Fed has me leaning towards 2011 Fed. However, Djoker's clutch 7/10 on break points is so mentally clutch.

I'm going to take 2011 Federer by a whisker over 2012 Djoker. The scoreline gives it away. Federer won 5+ games in each of the first 3 sets in 2011.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

It’s gotta be 2012 or 2014 Novak. Novak was in good shape for the first set and a half in 2014, and in 2012, he was blowing Rafa off the court in set 3 and 4, but somehow Rafa managed to pull it out 7-5 in the fourth set

Rafa was 2 sets to love up & a break up in 3rd IIRC
Muddy conditions let djok back in.

 

[Third Serve]

I've always said Puerta played well in that final. He was on drugs too and young teenage Nadal still beat him.

Consider the implications of the bolded word.

 

[Yugram]

In terms of level of play – Djokovic 2012. But Nadal was still better by a country mile and should’ve straight-setted Djokovic if not for the rain.

In terms of how close the opponent’s level was to Nadal’s – Puerta.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

In terms of level of play – Djokovic 2012. But Nadal was still better by a country mile and should’ve straight-setted Djokovic if not for the rain.

In terms of how close the opponent’s level was to Nadal’s – Puerta.

I guess 2013 has a case as well (though a mental let up from rafa at 6-5 30-0 fourth set, but still djok rose from ashes)

 

[Yugram]

I guess 2013 has a case as well (though a mental let up from rafa at 6-5 30-0 fourth set, but still djok rose from ashes)

As we saw in 2012, you don’t beat Nadal at RG by being grindy, no matter how good you are. So I’d say 2013vic had smarter approach by being more aggressive and going to the net a lot, but the question was only about final opponents.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Yeah, but this thread is clearly asking about in the specific final, and Novak wasn't very good in either of the finals they played except for the little bit where the weather turned in 2012.

I understand, but Novak's "not very good" level is still 10 times superior to anything Puerta was ever capable of producing. Let's put it like this: Novak's level in both the 2012 and 2014 FO finals would defeat Puerta's 2005 form 7-5, 6-3, 6-1.

 

[StrongRule]

The answer has to be Novak. I can't imagine anyone thinking Puerta is anywhere on the same planet as Novak in terms of quality. Novak is an ATG, obviously he's the tougher opponent than Puerta, who won three titles in his entire career!

So 2008 Federer was also a tougher opponent than 2005 Puerta? (Nadal who showed up in RG 2008 would beat Puerta much easier than he did in 2005, but I never get your logic)

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Novak 2012.

 

[Red Rick]

Honestly thought it was one of the earliest Fed ones or Puerta. I don't remember the 2012 final being THAT special but maybe I just remember wrong.

 

[StrongRule]

As for the question, it is too close to call. Not sure 2012 was so much better than some of the finals against Federer, but indeed it was hard to wait for the match to continue on the next day when Nadal was down a break in the fourth set. Good that he managed to break back in the first game, and never lost serve after that.

@Yugram veronika404 still can't get over this match.

 

[Breakpointerer]

Federer 2011 IMO.

 

[StrongRule]

Federer 2011 IMO.

I think it is underrated in the poll because it was clearly far from the best version of Nadal.

 

[ibbi]

I understand, but Novak's "not very good" level is still 10 times superior to anything Puerta was ever capable of producing. Let's put it like this: Novak's level in both the 2012 and 2014 FO finals would defeat Puerta's 2005 form 7-5, 6-3, 6-1.

Sure, but talking relative to Nadal on that specific day. A doped up Puerta, an inexperienced Rafa (again, relative to the player he'd be when he played those finals against Novak, he had played more big finals than Puerta had even then ) and Puerta played pretty well in that match!

 

[DSH]

Mariano Puerta.

 

[junior74]

A less tired Thiem could have really pushed Rafa this year. Showed such promise the first hour and a half.

Fed 11 played just as good as Nadal in the three first sets, but blew his chances (nothing new).

 

[BGod]

Matchup wise I think 2011 Fed. Because at that point Roger wasn't so stubborn to backhand regardless of Nadal's spin. And he may have been more focused but losing that 1st set showed he was still mentality scarred.

So I voted 2006 Federer. Talent wise clearly ahead of Nadal and didn't have same mental wounds. Really just too much hubris that day.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Djokovic 2012 easily

won 8 games in a row vs the all time single surface GOAT

 

[junior74]

Djokovic 2012 easily

won 8 games in a row vs the all time single surface GOAT

That sometimes happens when you're down 0-2. You play freely and the other guy takes the foot off the gas.

Sick achievement in its own right, though... But was it a really tough/ close match? I don't remember it that way. But the 2013 encounter has perhaps deleted all memory of the 2012 match

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

That sometimes happens when you're down 0-2. You play freely and the other guy takes the foot off the gas.

Sick achievement in its own right, though... But was it a really tough/ close match? I don't remember it that way. But the 2013 encounter has perhaps deleted all memory of the 2012 match

well yes 2013 was way closer but OP asked for final. Still think he put pressure on Rafa like no one else in a final there. None went over 4 sets anyway

 

[Yugram]

That sometimes happens when you're down 0-2. You play freely and the other guy takes the foot off the gas.

Sick achievement in its own right, though... But was it a really tough/ close match? I don't remember it that way. But the 2013 encounter has perhaps deleted all memory of the 2012 match

It wasn’t about taking foot off the gas. If it wasn’t for the rainy conditions, both 2011 and 2012 would’ve ended in straight sets.

 

[Nole14_15NoPressure]

Djokovic Nadal RG Final 2020: 4-6 7-6 6-2 6-3 . Victory for Ultron. Quote this message when it happens.

 

[MichaelNadal]

2012 Djokovic, unreal level from both in that final

that match badly needed a fifth set, still pissed about it

Im not

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Im not

Couldn’t agree more

 

[Yugram]

Djokovic Nadal RG Final 2020: 4-6 7-6 6-2 6-3 . Victory for Ultron. Quote this message when it happens.

Joe Kovic hasn’t beaten Nadal on clay since 2016, you know. And if we’re talking about decent claydal, since Monte Carlo 2013.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Couldn’t agree more

Lol I can imagine you and J's back and forths over Rafovic. Hoping for some Djokodal epics next year

 

[Xemi666]

Thiem played pretty good this year, he just couldn't maintain the level after the 2nd set. Federer in 2011 did pretty well too, considering most people expected a crushing going into the match.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Lol I can imagine you and J's back and forths over Rafovic. Hoping for some Djokodal epics next year

Currently we are in El Torro land, Rafa land! Having tons of grilled steaks. J likes Italy more though!
Not sure how fun it will be to watch Djokodal together hahaha I fear that moment.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk