Naomi Osaka choose Japanese citizenship in front of the Tokyo Olympics

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Why can't I feel that it's weird and disloyal?
You can, but those are two different things that you put forward in different periods of the argument. The first is much more about her being seen in just a different light. The second is about her being put in a negative light.

:cool:
 

Grinch

New User
I think its funny you think those people are actually spending most of their time in either Monte Carlo or the UAE

Its like using South Dakota as a permanent address to avoid taxes. My neighbor has as South Dakota plate and a PO box there. They are breaking at least 10 parts of the IRS code but no one will ever care.
I was just pointing out they own property in tax havens such as these.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
She was born in Japan.
Also, I would say she hasn’t been treated with fair amount of respect in US like at the US open vs Serena. I’m sure they love her in Japan and will back her fully.
Those weren't Americans, those were Nu Yoykers, not the same...
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
She absolutely will. The citizenship is only the natural progression of her tying her earnings with sponsorship deals from Japanese companies. The Olympics might be an exo (the opinions on that matter vary), but the money from sponsorships are real. She is not as marketable and useful to her Japanese sponsors as an American citizen as she is as a Japanese citizen.

:cool:
Is this why Federer became Swiss instead of South African?
 

Grinch

New User
I think its funny you think those people are actually spending most of their time in either Monte Carlo or the UAE

Its like using South Dakota as a permanent address to avoid taxes. My neighbor has as South Dakota plate and a PO box there. They are breaking at least 10 parts of the IRS code but no one will ever care.
sorry, I meant to say where athletes own property. They live mostly in hotel rooms.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
A) I've been specifically talking about the Olympics. How is it good for the US in the upcoming Olympics if one of the best womens tennis players in the US is playing for a different country?

B) I'm not arguing playing in the Olympics for any country is a huge opportunity (and potentially once in a lifetime). I keep saying I don't feel she should be able to represent Japan, despite her 'feeling Japanese'. Lots of men 'feel like women', but I don't support them competing in the womens divisions. Just difference of opinion, not sure this is going anywhere tbh.
She has always played in WTA representing Japan, never the USA. It's no different than Zverev representing German & living in the U.S..
 
Why can't I feel that it's weird and disloyal?
She's always represented Japan in official tournaments though. Not like representing USA then switching to Japan for convenience. More exciting for her to be Japanese, and more lucrative too. I like that she's actually trying to learn some Japanese... language and cultural identity are tied strongly, so declaring yourself a part of a certain nation without even speaking their language (or one or their languages) is weird indeed. That's why Sharapova's position was never contentious to me - having left Russia at 8, she still speaks decent Russian, although it sounds quite Americanised by now but understandable with little difficulty.
 
A) I've been specifically talking about the Olympics. How is it good for the US in the upcoming Olympics if one of the best womens tennis players in the US is playing for a different country?

B) I'm not arguing playing in the Olympics for any country is a huge opportunity (and potentially once in a lifetime). I keep saying I don't feel she should be able to represent Japan, despite her 'feeling Japanese'. Lots of men 'feel like women', but I don't support them competing in the womens divisions. Just difference of opinion, not sure this is going anywhere tbh.
I was born to Portuguese parents who are diplomats and spent more than half of my life living abroad, including half of this time in Belgium.
I feel and am Portuguese.
Should I be forced to be Belgian despite not having any Belgian heritage just because I spent more time there (in a Portuguese household) than anywhere else?
Is time spent in a place the defining attribute of nationality?
I don't think it is.
 

Alexrb

Semi-Pro
I was born to Portuguese parents who are diplomats and spent more than half of my life living abroad, including half of this time in Belgium.
I feel and am Portuguese.
Should I be forced to be Belgian despite not having any Belgian heritage just because I spent more time there (in a Portuguese household) than anywhere else?
Is time spent in a place the defining attribute of nationality?
I don't think it is.
I responded to this already somewhere above.

Found it for you;

Grinch said:
In theory, I see your point. But realistically, most of these top players have residences in AT LEAST three countries. They live in hotels most days of the year, and the location of their houses is often based on the advice of their accountants and their parents. Where they live? Meh.
Understood, and I'm not saying I have all the answers. Djokovic would be a good example of that. Spent a lot of his formative years in Serbia, but his current 'residence' is Monte Carlo for likely taxation reasons. Though I'm sure he has homes all over the world, including Serbia. I think Osaka's situation is far less in the gray area.
 
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I was born to Portuguese parents who are diplomats and spent more than half of my life living abroad, including half of this time in Belgium.
I feel and am Portuguese.
Should I be forced to be Belgian despite not having any Belgian heritage just because I spent more time there (in a Portuguese household) than anywhere else?
Is time spent in a place the defining attribute of nationality?
I don't think it is.
Culture/language is, isn't it? When one declares themselves to belong to a certain nation (not just a citizen), that should imply a conversational grasp of its language and a basic knowledge of its history and culture you'd expect anyone who grew up in that nation to have. Osaka is doing the right thing by learning Japanese; a person who can't hold a simple conversation in your national language naturally feels like a foreigner even if they have heritage. I presume you speak Portuguese natively since it was your home language, so there isn't a scintilla of doubt.
 

Dim Sim

Rookie
I don't know why this bothers me, but it does. You shouldn't be able to just flip flop who you want to play for based on your chances of making an Olympic team or financial incentive. She has lived in the US since she was 3, trains in the US, and has won all of her majors while living in the US. Why should she be able to play for any other country?
If you had dual nationality and one of those countries required you to relinquish the other citizenship what would you do? Would the prospect of representing your country at the Olympics (with reduced competition) and making megayen be relevant? Or would you be persuaded by concepts of loyalty and longevity. Me? You only live once: do what’s best for you
 

BH40love

Rookie
I don't think there's anything wrong with her moving to Japan and continuing her career as a professional tennis player. I do believe there is something wrong with A) remaining in the US and representing Japan or B) moving to a country the year before the Olympics and representing them when 90%+ of your life has been spent in another country.
So she should be deported??
Novak lives in Monaco not Serbia. Difference?
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
So she should be deported??
Novak lives in Monaco not Serbia. Difference?
The difference is Novak stems from a country with a perpetual dictatorship, and doesn't want to give away his hard-earned millions to a group of psychopaths that are robbing the country clean...

Another difference is Novak is 100% Serb, Osaka is half Japanese half American. And Djokovic never deliberated about playing DC for France or Monaco...
 

BH40love

Rookie
The difference is Novak stems from a country with a perpetual dictatorship, and doesn't want to give away his hard-earned millions to a group of psychopaths that are robbing the country clean...

Another difference is Novak is 100% Serb, Osaka is half Japanese half American. And Djokovic never deliberated about playing DC for France or Monaco...
Osaka played Fed Cup for Japan in 2017. This is old news. Osaka is half Japanese and half Haitian..not American only by where she lives. Maybe she doesn’t wanna give her hard earned dollars to American government.
:cool:
 

BlueB

Legend
The difference is Novak stems from a country with a perpetual dictatorship, and doesn't want to give away his hard-earned millions to a group of psychopaths that are robbing the country clean...

Another difference is Novak is 100% Serb, Osaka is half Japanese half American. And Djokovic never deliberated about playing DC for France or Monaco...
Actually, Nole is 50% Croat, but that's the same thing anyways (unpopular opinion)...

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UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Osaka played Fed Cup for Japan in 2017. This is old news. Osaka is half Japanese and half Haitian..not American only by where she lives. Maybe she doesn’t wanna give her hard earned dollars to American government.
:cool:
They are not nearly as hard-earned as Novak's... Bestof5, bestof3...

No, just kidding.

To me Osaka is half-American or even full American. Ever hear her talk? She's the quintessential ditsy millennial American girl. She is as American as Hooters.

Bad example.

As American as Twinkies.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Actually, Nole is 50% Croat, but that's the same thing anyways (unpopular opinion)...

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It may be unpopular opinion... but true opinion.

Very few Serbs aren't part-Croat anyway, and vice versa. Another unpopular opinion, but fact. I am quarter Croat, completely normal in these here parts in the Balkans...

Novak is a good example to both sides how to behave vis-a-vis each other. Unfortunately, the politicians in both countries are annoyed by such displays because they need the two sides to keep hating each other... So much easier to keep the sheep dumb and submissive when nationalism goes to the extreme.
 

kramer woodie

Professional
I don't care at all about her choice. It is her choice to make and she has chosen! All I would say is you have made your decision, now live with it!!!
Absolutely no switching back to USA for you in the future!!!!

Shalom
 

clout

Hall of Fame
This is pretty much like Sharapova’s case some 15 years ago. Do Maria/Naomi represent Russia/Japan, their birthplace and where their families are from, or the USA, where she’s lived for nearly her whole life, provided the highest level of training and development for their careers, and speaks English better than their native tongues.
 
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UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
This is pretty much like Sharapova’s case some 15 years ago. Do Maria/Naomi represent Russia/Japan, their birthplace and where their families are from, or the USA, where she’s lived for nearly her whole life, provided the highest level of training and development for her career, and speaks English better than her native tongue.
Except that Sharapova speaks both equally well. Osaka barely speaks Japanese.
 

BlueB

Legend
It may be unpopular opinion... but true opinion.

Very few Serbs aren't part-Croat anyway, and vice versa. Another unpopular opinion, but fact. I am quarter Croat, completely normal in these here parts in the Balkans...

Novak is a good example to both sides how to behave vis-a-vis each other. Unfortunately, the politicians in both countries are annoyed by such displays because they need the two sides to keep hating each other... So much easier to keep the sheep dumb and submissive when nationalism goes to the extreme.
Very true!
Both my wife and I are half and half, in my case with a large percentage of blood line from surounding nations too. We left when the nonsense started in the early 90s and carried the citizenships of every next country we moved too.
I do not have a problem with sports people representing any country where they have citizenship - it's legal. Apart from convenience and material aspects, it boils down to what one feels like, which could be mixed too. Or, no feeling at all, which is also ok.
I personaly competed under Yugoslavian, South African, Canadian and Serbian flag... The last two even interchangeably in back to back events at a same venue

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UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Very true!
Both my wife and I are half and half, in my case with a large percentage of blood line from surounding nations too. We left when the nonsense started in the early 90s and carried the citizenships of every next country we moved too.
I do not have a problem with sports people representing any country where they have citizenship - it's legal. Apart from convenience and material aspects, it boils down to what one feels like, which could be mixed too. Or, no feeling at all, which is also ok.
I personaly competed under Yugoslavian, South African, Canadian and Serbian flag... The last two even interchangeably in back to back events at a same venue

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You played what sport and where?

Osaka can play as a Belgian, matters not, but playing for Japan - of all countries - when she can barely speak Japanese...

Anyone who is well-versed about Japan knows what I mean.
 

AlexSV

Rookie
What about the US soccer players who were born and trained in Germany? The US is importing players too. You guys are butt hurt it went the other way this time.
 

BlueB

Legend
You played what sport and where?

Osaka can play as a Belgian, matters not, but playing for Japan - of all countries - when she can barely speak Japanese...

Anyone who is well-versed about Japan knows what I mean.
Sailing, Finn when I was younger, Laser since I turned veteran (masters) 15 years ago. The later I sail as a Canadian in the Europa Cup and Serbian in their Nationals (still an open intentional event), held back to back every few years.
The Finn I sailed in the 2002 Gold Cup (Worlds) for South Africa.

Doesn't matter if she didn't speak fluent Japanese... It's still completely legal and she can make that decision for whatever reson.

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Otacon

Hall of Fame
Certain answers are really funny.

Osaka chooses Japan over the US, then she must be greedy or crazy.

Unbelievable the level of conceit some Americans have.
 

Emet74

Professional
She's always represented Japan; there's no change.

But until now she's been a dual citizen of the US and Japan, but under Japanese law at age 22 she must choose one country or the other. Therefore she's giving up her US citizenship - that's what the news is about.

It's tough for her but understandable that she doesn't want to change her representation in the middle of her career.
 

Chadalina

Legend
Non residents should have to pay more in taxes have have limitations on owning property/business. It would give incentive for them to be naturalized.

Currenty they are taking advantage of our country
 

BlueB

Legend
Non residents should have to pay more in taxes have have limitations on owning property/business. It would give incentive for them to be naturalized.

Currenty they are taking advantage of our country
Advantage, how? By bringing in the cash and paying taxes?
The first principles of capitalism are to be able to own oroperty and run business. Are you suggesting that US should turn into a commie or natzi country?


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TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Non residents should have to pay more in taxes have have limitations on owning property/business. It would give incentive for them to be naturalized.

Currenty they are taking advantage of our country
America make non Americans pay more taxes than Americans. Don’t you worry about that. It’s not fair at all. Why shall we pay more? We gave back to the community as Americans did.
 

Zetty

Professional
She's an American, can hardly speak Japanese at all, making sure to bone up so she passes her sponsor's tests though.
 
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