natural Gut and string savers

#1
Do you use string savers with your natural gut? (My answer: yes) If so, where do you put them? How many do you use? On all the intersecting points of the strings? On half of them? On every other line? (I have put them on every intersection sometimes, on every other line sometimes) How have they worked for you? (They have worked well. They seem to increase my tension. The feel of the racquet is fine, not harsh.) Do you put them on before or after you use the racquet for the first time with natural gut? (Before, generally.) What tension is your racquet? (Wilson 6.1 95, 58)Why do you use string savers? (Mostly because I think they save my strings and cause them to last longer.) What string? (Babolat, VS 17) Why don't you use string savers? (I use them just about all of the time.)
 
#2
I use VS 16 (non bt7) and use string savers. However, I don't put them in until after the string starts knotching a little bit. Then I will put them in the heavily knotched intersections. String savers definetly extend the durability of the string bed, but they also effect the playability a little bit.
 
#4
string savers: before or after play

Shaun, do you put the string savers in your racquet before or after you play with it the first time you put in ng?
 
#5
After I'm done stringing my racquet, I put the string savers immediately. And then I go out and hit for the first time. I've tried not using string savers at all for gut/poly hybrid and it was scary. It lasted me 1week. Currently the gut/poly hybrid is lasting me about 3-4 months with string savers
 
#7
Don't do that.. It'll make the string bed stiffer and make you feel like you're hitting a metal ball. Just use some on the sweet spot. After all, gut is made for players looking for a soft comfortable feel on the string bed.
 
#8
Thanks Shaun. I'll remember that. My first thought on string savers was to put in quite a few to save the NG and have it last longer. What you said makes sense. Now to go back to my racquet (s) and take out a few string savers.
 

McLovin

Hall of Fame
#9
Years ago (when I broke strings), I would put them in a diamond pattern around the sweet spot. Effectively it looked like this:

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It gave a few more hours of longevity without taking away from the gut's playability.
 
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#10
Don't do that.. It'll make the string bed stiffer and make you feel like you're hitting a metal ball. Just use some on the sweet spot. After all, gut is made for players looking for a soft comfortable feel on the string bed.
I put on a whole bunch and it absolutely KILLED playability. I had very little spin even though my savers were babalot elasticrosses.

I'm still experimenting... for now, I've put 2 in an area I usually break strings. As the gut starts to notch, I'll gradually add more.
 

Valjean

Hall of Fame
#11
A diamond pattern was at one time recommended; it can vary too.

Putting one ss at every other cross section in your pattern initially should do the job starting out.

If you want to put these in right after stringing and not wait until some crosses begin to notch first, that would be...
 

Fintft

Hall of Fame
#12
I use VS 16 (non bt7) and use string savers. However, I don't put them in until after the string starts knotching a little bit. Then I will put them in the heavily knotched intersections. String savers definetly extend the durability of the string bed, but they also effect the playability a little bit.
Yeah I don't like the stiffness in my VS Team 17 bt7 with string savers, but I do clean/wax my strings religiously after each hit (and my stringer waxes it before feeding it through the grommets as well) and that seems to extend its life by lot.

TW has a "101 natural guide" that talks about this.
 

Fintft

Hall of Fame
#13
After I'm done stringing my racquet, I put the string savers immediately. And then I go out and hit for the first time. I've tried not using string savers at all for gut/poly hybrid and it was scary. It lasted me 1week. Currently the gut/poly hybrid is lasting me about 3-4 months with string savers

Well, I wouldn't go as far into saving my money...B/c while I may get 2-4 months out my full bed natural gut, in average I only get 6 weeks and that's good enough for me. I do use 2-3 sticks alternating each 10 minutes (b/c of sweaty hands).
 
#14
When I use them, I only put them where I see the string starting to go and only after I get home. In other words, I'm not pulling the thing out of my sock like Sampras and inserting them between points.
I don't believe string savers increase tension.
 
#15
When I use them, I only put them where I see the string starting to go and only after I get home. In other words, I'm not pulling the thing out of my sock like Sampras and inserting them between points.
I don't believe string savers increase tension.
Oh, they do. They're adding more space perpendicular to the strings, which effectively extends them leading to a stiffer stringbed.
 

Valjean

Hall of Fame
#19
FWIW, the standard advice to racquet stringers at one point was to drop tension 2 lbs. if applying those right after stringing one. I don't think this referred to the densest possible pattern, though.

There is an noticeable difference in stringbed deflection, and feel, I would say, when using plastic or teflon string savers...
 
#20
Do you have any empirical data to support that; i.e. how much "space perpendicular" and how much tension does that result in?
I'd say no. I was talking theoretically and based on my experience with SS. But you're right in questioning how much effect the vertical offsetting really has and I have no numbers.

Back when I had SS on, I measured the tension using the racquetTune iPhone app. I don't know how accurate the app is with SS (power pads, for example, seem to affect the measurements), but it was showing a kilo or two stiffer stringbed with SS.
 

Maui19

Hall of Fame
#21
I'd say no. I was talking theoretically and based on my experience with SS. But you're right in questioning how much effect the vertical offsetting really has and I have no numbers.

Back when I had SS on, I measured the tension using the racquetTune iPhone app. I don't know how accurate the app is with SS (power pads, for example, seem to affect the measurements), but it was showing a kilo or two stiffer stringbed with SS.
I always check my racquet tension before and after adding SS and it is always +.5-.6 lbs. I have never seen anything close to a kilo in string more than 100 racquets and adding SS.
 
#23
I'd say no. I was talking theoretically and based on my experience with SS. But you're right in questioning how much effect the vertical offsetting really has and I have no numbers.

Back when I had SS on, I measured the tension using the racquetTune iPhone app. I don't know how accurate the app is with SS (power pads, for example, seem to affect the measurements), but it was showing a kilo or two stiffer stringbed with SS.
I don't dispute that the number of string savers you post might affect the feel of the string bed. Also keep in mind that the app you refer to uses sound as the determinant. I really think 2 kilos just from pieces of plastic that thin and further compressed by the string juncture after insertion is impossible.
 

Maui19

Hall of Fame
#26
Yeah, I was experimenting a bit.
Where do you put those 6? Do you use them to prolong the life of the gut or to help spin generation?
I put them in the center, and spread them around in no particular pattern. I use them only to prevent the gut from breaking too early. They definitely reduce notching, and you don't have to use many for them to work IME.
 
#27
I put them in the center, and spread them around in no particular pattern. I use them only to prevent the gut from breaking too early. They definitely reduce notching, and you don't have to use many for them to work IME.
Thanks for the advice, Maui! I will be experimenting with fewer in the Prestige.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#29
Bumping an old thread:

Do any of you use a large/extensive SS patern like Mirnyi uses? I also notice that he uses them on consecutive strings, unlike Fed who skips a string between SS. Thoughts?

 
#30
Bumping an old thread:

Do any of you use a large/extensive SS patern like Mirnyi uses? I also notice that he uses them on consecutive strings, unlike Fed who skips a string between SS. Thoughts?

When i use them I put in a whole pack of electrocrosses. Start at the top cross and do every intersection till i run out.

That is with a locked cross string like nylon or kevlar. First used them with full kevlar and they helped increase spin and made the bed softer. Basically a big part of whether a string bed is soft is what happens to the mains on contact. With full kevlar or kevlar/nylon or any main with nylon, syn or natgut, or kevlar crosses the string bed gets locked. Adding electrocrosses will allow the mains to move more on contact which makes it play softer.

Just the opposite happens with gut/poly where the electrocrosses slide less than gut/poly does on its own. Its the increased friction that makes things harsher rather than increased tension. Agree with rabbit that tension isnt increased. At least my Ert3000 never reported any difference.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#31
When i use them I put in a whole pack of electrocrosses. Start at the top cross and do every intersection till i run out.

That is with a locked cross string like nylon or kevlar. First used them with full kevlar and they helped increase spin and made the bed softer. Basically a big part of whether a string bed is soft is what happens to the mains on contact. With full kevlar or kevlar/nylon or any main with nylon, syn or natgut, or kevlar crosses the string bed gets locked. Adding electrocrosses will allow the mains to move more on contact which makes it play softer.

Just the opposite happens with gut/poly where the electrocrosses slide less than gut/poly does on its own. Its the increased friction that makes things harsher rather than increased tension. Agree with rabbit that tension isnt increased. At least my Ert3000 never reported any difference.
When using them in the entire stringbed, did you use the Babolat brand? (I think they are more slippery than the Tourna string savers?)
 
#33
Bumping an old thread:

Do any of you use a large/extensive SS patern like Mirnyi uses? I also notice that he uses them on consecutive strings, unlike Fed who skips a string between SS. Thoughts?

Interesting he puts them on consecutive mains, but every other cross. I have just put a few ss in my multi in the spot I consistently break the mains (tip/edge outside sweetspot ;)). I had the thought/question ... does a placed ss also protect intersections right next to it without a ss? I would guess "probably" up/down on mains like Mirnyi here. Seems less likely it would help a main left/right. The only logic/case for that might be two mains next to each other splay open from each other at contact. If you prevent/minimize one main's splaying/sliding ... maybe the main next to it without a ss also slides/splays less. Aren't you a math guy ... work that out for us. :p

Like @Shroud said ... sliding effect of ss must vary per string type (maybe more with gut, less with poly).

I only played fb gut, and just chased the frays. I would think how you notch/break would dictate ss usuage. I tend to get a few bad notches, but rest of strings look pretty good. For me, doesn't make sense to put pattern in center ... hence my "ss after stringing in bad spots". Seems to be working ... at 9 hours virtually no mains notching above or below ss.
 
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IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#34
I had the thought/question ... does a placed ss also protect intersections right next to it without a ss? I would guess "probably" up/down on mains like Mirnyi here. Seems less likely it would help a main left/right. The only logic/case for that might be two mains next to each other splay open from each other at contact. If you prevent/minimize one main's splaying/sliding ... maybe the main next to it without a ss also slides/splays less.
I have recently been experimenting with different SS patterns with fb gut.

When I skip strings/intersections, it still notches the intersections without SS. I'm mostly going for string durability, and it seems like every intersection (in the sweetspot + some margin for error) might be the way to go. I didn't grow up using nat gut, so I don't mind the firm stringbed feeling. (It definitely feels different with 12x12 block of SS!)

I'm going to try Shroud's method with 12x12 section of my stringbed, using SS on every intersection.

Zoom in on Llodra's setup (he supposedly used fb gut), he has SS on most intersections of a 8x12 section:

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/var/plai...73-1-fre-FR/Llodra-oui-Mahut-et-Simon-non.jpg
 
#35
I have recently been experimenting with different SS patterns with fb gut.

When I skip strings/intersections, it still notches the intersections without SS. I'm mostly going for string durability, and it seems like every intersection (in the sweetspot + some margin for error) might be the way to go. I didn't grow up using nat gut, so I don't mind the firm stringbed feeling. (It definitely feels different with 12x12 block of SS!)

I'm going to try Shroud's method with 12x12 section of my stringbed, using SS on every intersection.

Zoom in on Llodra's setup (he supposedly used fb gut), he has SS on most intersections of a 8x12 section:

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/var/plai...73-1-fre-FR/Llodra-oui-Mahut-et-Simon-non.jpg
Have you played enough with gut now to indentify a "break zone for you"? Here is what I mean: let's say you always break mains, and between cross 4 thru 6. If it was me, I wouldn't insert ss in the additional 9 crosses just for "feeling or consistency" reasons, particularly with fb gut. I think fb non-slippery gut or fb non-slippery multi are the best candidates for ss (just thinking logically ... have not used them myself other than chasing the frays, and now minimum location). So say fb bab vs or fb xcel. Soft ... not slippery ... doubt you need the full 12 rows for consistency/feel reasons. Also ... upside is less " (It definitely feels different with 12x12 block of SS!) ".

I feel different about using ss in fb velocity. I like the way v plays partly because it's slick. I absolutely would not step on that with rows of ss. I will add pics below on an example break, and current ss experiment. For 40 years I have broken 3rd or 4th main ... more toward tip generally.

I will post pics below.

Edit:

This was a good time to check my wear pattern (notches) at 9 hours. (so glad I am not a quick string breaker)

Blue - my hitting zone based on notches (I don't think I ever hit near throat or bottom edge, so the hitting zone is more narrow than the blue depending on which edge is up).
Red - seems to be my big notch zone ... hence the strange looking ss test below.





Interestingly ... even with only those 4 bab ss, I seem to feel the difference when I hit near them (maybe like a vibration, slightly stiffer). Probably in my head, but I look at that as a "teaching aid" ... "don't hit f***** up there". :p Actually ... might be good to fill all of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cross for that "teaching thing".
 
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IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#36
#37
More Llodra photos (one of the last ATP pros that I'm aware of to use fb gut).

Here he has 6x11 section with all SS intersections (zoom in). Interesting that he uses a slightly asymmetric layout with 2 mains on one side and 3 on the other without SS:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/2013_US_Open_(Tennis)_-_Michael_Llodra_(9664896446).jpg

Another asymmetric layout, this time 6x9:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/2014_US_Open_(Tennis)_-_Tournament_-_Michael_Llodra_(15129461032).jpg
Weird he doesn't start from the same main from both edges. Maybe he is whack like me ... and plays with one edge up all the time. :p
 
#38
One string saver fell out and you can see what the result is. I am using more than double the tension and have a stiffer racket so maybe there is more abuse but look:



"More spin" on a full kevlar string bed is kind of a funny thing. YES you do relative to not having them but even with them its not a spiny string bed. I think I have given up some over poly crosses but for me its a nice trade off I think with the string savers. Get the babolat electrocrosses...easy to put in for sure
 
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