Natural gut broke sitting in my bag

[stapletonj]

Wow, just had a similar "bag break" Had a gutm/polyx hybrid, Klip 16, 2018 vcore 100. Had about 60 days in. Poly felt dead so I mounted it tightly (6 point), cut out the poly and carefully restrung just the crosses. Felt really well.
Played 3 sets on a nice dry sunny day on hard courts. Everything felt fine.
Next day, gonna go play again. snapped in the bag. (looks like on outside) on outside main bending to the tie off knot, nowhere near where any cross pulls might burn the string.
Never any issues there before on prior string jobs with that racket. Did a similar job on an even older (same type) racket, has held up well these last 3 weeks.

Just speculating - could it be that no matter how careful you are, the racket flexes some during the process and this flexing pulls the mains through the grommets, sawing a little and allowing a stress break?

 

[esgee48]

Yes. No matter how careful you are mounting the frame, it will compress when the crosses are removed. It will expand again when you put new crosses back in. As more crosses are installed, more tension is added back to the mains unevenly. If you move the crosses while pulling, it will even out the tension in the cross, but not always so in the main. Old gut is drier than new gut.

 

[struggle]

Wow, just had a similar "bag break" Had a gutm/polyx hybrid, Klip 16, 2018 vcore 100. Had about 60 days in. Poly felt dead so I mounted it tightly (6 point), cut out the poly and carefully restrung just the crosses. Felt really well.
Played 3 sets on a nice dry sunny day on hard courts. Everything felt fine.
Next day, gonna go play again. snapped in the bag. (looks like on outside) on outside main bending to the tie off knot, nowhere near where any cross pulls might burn the string.
Never any issues there before on prior string jobs with that racket. Did a similar job on an even older (same type) racket, has held up well these last 3 weeks.

Just speculating - could it be that no matter how careful you are, the racket flexes some during the process and this flexing pulls the mains through the grommets, sawing a little and allowing a stress break?

unsure, but this one doesn't surprise me.

i used to try the same (restring crosses).......and it often worked, but was never the same.

The gut gets a bit "brittle" over time (at the bends etc) and doesn't love being toyed with once it's settled in.

Been using gut/poly for several years now (rarely change anything) and this has been my experience.

i usually play mine until the gut breaks. sometimes that means it gets delegated to 2nd or 3rd in the lineup
if it lasts, but doesn't break soon enough. But really, with a thin poly cross, it plays good for a LONG time, IME.

 

[happyandbob]

Update -- a little lubricant in the grommets per @jim e seems to have done the trick. I'm at 17.5 hours on a set of Klip 1.3 mains on one racquet, lots of fraying on the string bed but no signs on damage near those sharp turns. Thanks Jim!

Now turning my attention to how my racquet with VS gut mains seems to be holding tension much better than the one with Klip mains...

 

[stapletonj]

Update -- a little lubricant in the grommets per @jim e seems to have done the trick. I'm at 17.5 hours on a set of Klip 1.3 mains on one racquet, lots of fraying on the string bed but no signs on damage near those sharp turns. Thanks Jim!

Now turning my attention to how my racquet with VS gut mains seems to be holding tension much better than the one with Klip mains...

lube in the grommets. before the initial string job? or put a little on the gut mains during the poly cut out and replace. I assume the former, but remember my old h.s. coach's admonition about ass-u-me....

Please let me know more about the tension holding qualities of VS vis-a-vis Klip. Does it last twice as long too? It's going to take a lot of difference to justify that almost 2X price differential (to me)

 

[stapletonj]

Also, for the grommet lube trick......... were these coated gut strings? I think I will try this but only on the grommets that make the sharp turns....

 

[happyandbob]

lube in the grommets. before the initial string job? or put a little on the gut mains during the poly cut out and replace. I assume the former, but remember my old h.s. coach's admonition about ass-u-me....

Please let me know more about the tension holding qualities of VS vis-a-vis Klip. Does it last twice as long too? It's going to take a lot of difference to justify that almost 2X price differential (to me)

Yes, based on Jim's suggestion, I used a little flosser my youngest uses to poke around her braces to put just the tiniest amount of Tri-Flow into both sides of the grommet hole for main 6 and the turn between mains 6-7.

Not sure if I can quantify exactly, but I have an Ezone 100 with VS/Rexxer at 60/55 and a matched racquet with Klip/Rexxxer at 60/55. The VS is frayed but still playing ok at 17 hours, but the Klip has been launching balls long for a while, well before the 17.5 hours it was at. I know there are mixed feelings about replacing just the crosses, but I cut out the crosses of the Klip racquet and restrung with new rexxxer at 55. The racquet shape ended up slightly elongated when held up next to the VS racquet (I'm assuming due to the tension loss of the mains), but it didn't play any better. Still launchy. I cut those out and just restrung with Signum Pro Cross Gut/Rexxxer, which I got from UK for $10 for sh*ts and giggles.

Just traded my last set of Klip for a set of Signum Pro Premium Gut to try that out and then moving onto some packs of Pacific gut that I just got from UK.

 

[happyandbob]

Also, for the grommet lube trick......... were these coated gut strings? I think I will try this but only on the grommets that make the sharp turns

yes, Klip Legend 16

 

[veelium]

While we're talking about broken strings - how bout this:

That is smack dab in the middle of the stringbed. It is MSV Focus Hex at 23kg crossed with RPM Rough.
Never seen a split like it before. It's as though some of the focus hex delaminated.

Had a similar break with hawk rough, but as the cross with gut after ~20-30 hours.

Update -- a little lubricant in the grommets per @jim e seems to have done the trick. I'm at 17.5 hours on a set of Klip 1.3 mains on one racquet, lots of fraying on the string bed but no signs on damage near those sharp turns. Thanks Jim!

Now turning my attention to how my racquet with VS gut mains seems to be holding tension much better than the one with Klip mains...

Coz VS gut is just better than Klip?

 

[stapletonj]

"I used a little flosser my youngest uses to poke around her braces to put just the tiniest amount of Tri-Flow into both sides"

You put the tiniest amount of Tri-flow into both sides of your daughter's braces?

That's it, I'm calling Child Proitective Services!!!!

/s/

 

[LOBALOT]

Golly, I don't know you guys. I have been stringing a lot of gut (I have about 150 packs downstairs by my stringer) and I just haven't had issues.

I just string it in the mains like anything else and am careful about weaving the poly crosses and that's it. No lube no this or that. No snapping. No nothing.

 

[happyandbob]

Golly, I don't know you guys. I have been stringing a lot of gut (I have about 150 packs downstairs by my stringer) and I just haven't had issues.

I just string it in the mains like anything else and am careful about weaving the poly crosses and that's it. No lube no this or that. No snapping. No nothing.

It's only ever happened to me on the 2020 Ezone 100 on the turn between the 6th and 7th mains. Never on my other racquets.

 

[happyandbob]

"I used a little flosser my youngest uses to poke around her braces to put just the tiniest amount of Tri-Flow into both sides"

You put the tiniest amount of Tri-flow into both sides of your daughter's braces?

That's it, I'm calling Child Proitective Services!!!!

/s/

she's the sassiest of the three. We actually need adult protective services!

 

[struggle]

150 sets of natural gut.

I’m doing it wrong.

 

[LOBALOT]

deleted

150 sets of natural gut.

I’m doing it wrong.

I got carried away at the start of the pandemic. I ordered a ton of it thinking the sky was falling.

I did string a lot of it during the pandemic. I personally don't play gut/poly any more not because I don't want to but it doesn't perform well in my current racquet. It is still my favorite setup especially for older players like me and being older and playing/knowing older players I tend to string a lot of it.

 

[happyandbob]

LOL. The Signum cross gut popped on the first forehand

 

[colan5934]

Had a similar break with hawk rough, but as the cross with gut after ~20-30 hours.

Coz VS gut is just better than Klip?

Lynx tour does this sometimes too.

 

[esgee48]

What do you think happened with the Signum NG? Quality control or kink? Was it really dry when you took it out of the package?

 

[happyandbob]

What do you think happened with the Signum NG? Quality control or kink? Was it really dry when you took it out of the package?

It wasn’t coated like most of the guts I’ve been using. It had like a waxy substance on it that was easily disturbed. I took great care not to kink it but as I was pulling through the grommets, in some places the waxy stuff opened up and the strands looked like they wanted to unwind. I think the gut snapped on one of those weak spots.

I have another 1/2 set. I’ll give it another go at some point but probably at a lower tension than 60 lb + prestretch

In the meantime, I used Pacific Classic to replace. Felt a lot like Lux Gut while stringing

 

[struggle]

deleted


I got carried away at the start of the pandemic. I ordered a ton of it thinking the sky was falling.

I did string a lot of it during the pandemic. I personally don't play gut/poly any more not because I don't want to but it doesn't perform well in my current racquet. It is still my favorite setup especially for older players like me and being older and playing/knowing older players I tend to string a lot of it.

I'm a buyer....potentially. ( i don't need 150 sets though...)

 

[stapletonj]

AS would I be.

 

[lefty10spro]

It's the split in the grommet that is causing this. Same thing happens on the top of Head Instinct and Speed models. Gut breaks in the turn of the split (if this makes sense) about 50% of the time. Tubing the entire area solved the problem. Why exactly are they making multiple little grommet pieces??

 

[Papa Mango]

This came in today and I remembered this thread. Ezone 98, full natty job, rest of the strings still have about 2 years left on them

 

[esgee48]

Shank break.

 

[Fintft]

It used to happen to me once in a few years when I played with fullbed gut where strings would snap overnight in the bag. Typically when my racquet was strung when I was out of town by a different stringer and not my usual one. Don’t know if they kink the string or do something different during stringing.

Happened to me as well with a new stringer, after 10 min of play in the bag, overnight.

 

[kkm]

It's the split in the grommet that is causing this. Same thing happens on the top of Head Instinct and Speed models. Gut breaks in the turn of the split (if this makes sense) about 50% of the time. Tubing the entire area solved the problem. Why exactly are they making multiple little grommet pieces??

I think Babolat, Dunlop, Head, Wilson, and Yonex make multiple little grommet pieces because of one thing they have, and have different names for (Dunlop calls it straight string system, Wilson calls it parallel drilling).

 

[WYK]

Just realised I should have taken a photo before I strung it, but someone handed in to me a 16X19 Prestige with natural gut that 'broke sitting in my car'.
Now before we go all 'but the heat THE HEAT!' - this is Ireland. There ain't no heat. 65F in the summer makes people complain about the heat. Seriously. It confuses this Texan.
Sun here makes people complain about the heat unless it's nearly freezing. And it broke before summer, anyways. Just been sitting around ever since.

Anyways, it looked like the fibres just gave it up. No clean cut, like it unraveled. Was a main in the middle of the stringbed, too. I strung it previously back in late March. 57lbs.
It didn't look anywhere near as worn as PapaMangos. Most of it was in great shape.

 

[stapletonj]

Just realised I should have taken a photo before I strung it, but someone handed in to me a 16X19 Prestige with natural gut that 'broke sitting in my car'.
Now before we go all 'but the heat THE HEAT!' - this is Ireland. There ain't no heat. 65F in the summer makes people complain about the heat. Seriously. It confuses this Texan.
Sun here makes people complain about the heat unless it's nearly freezing. And it broke before summer, anyways. Just been sitting around ever since.

Anyways, it looked like the fibres just gave it up. No clean cut, like it unraveled. Was a main in the middle of the stringbed, too. I strung it previously back in late March. 57lbs.
It didn't look anywhere near as worn as PapaMangos. Most of it was in great shape.

I suspect moisture, but that is pure speculation

 

[Irvin]

I suspect moisture, but that is pure speculation

Often gut string breaks near a grommet but can also break anywhere in the string bed. A twisted string will be weakened by the twist and the shaper the twist the weaker the string. Then you have a kink, which is a sharp twist in the string. If you‘re not careful kinking can occur at or near grommets Especially. Then when a ball is struck anywhere near the kink individual fibers snap. When a fiber snaps it puts more tension on the remaining fibers. Sooner or later the string breaks. Gut can be weakened from humidity changes, temperature changes, or even sunlight. That’s why good gut string come in sealed packages that block light and should be stored in temperature controlled areas.

 

[kkm]

Just realised I should have taken a photo before I strung it, but someone handed in to me a 16X19 Prestige with natural gut that 'broke sitting in my car'.
Now before we go all 'but the heat THE HEAT!' - this is Ireland. There ain't no heat. 65F in the summer makes people complain about the heat. Seriously. It confuses this Texan.
Sun here makes people complain about the heat unless it's nearly freezing. And it broke before summer, anyways. Just been sitting around ever since.

Anyways, it looked like the fibres just gave it up. No clean cut, like it unraveled. Was a main in the middle of the stringbed, too. I strung it previously back in late March. 57lbs.
It didn't look anywhere near as worn as PapaMangos. Most of it was in great shape.

You’re absolutely right about Irish people complaining about the heat. I think it‘s the humidity. 65F and humid sucks. Irish winters are harsh for the same reason. It’s funny how so many go to Marbella whenever they can. 32F in Ireland feels worse than -4F in many “cold” American cities.

 

[arsen]

While we're talking about broken strings - how bout this:

That is smack dab in the middle of the stringbed. It is MSV Focus Hex at 23kg crossed with RPM Rough.
Never seen a split like it before. It's as though some of the focus hex delaminated.

solinco confidentale & Tour bite\ - feeds

 

[stapletonj]

Well, poop, had another "gut mains bag break" last night. first in a while.

This time up at the top on my 7th gen vcore 100..... right at about 10 o'clock....

been leaving my bag in my car (park inside home garage so no excessive light/temperature/humidity)

I sometimes think there are just inherent issues in gut (especially at 62 lbs) and it is just a cost of doing business.

 

[Youngheart]

I'm one of those fools who used to believe the hype that natural gut was so great.
After different racquets had strings pop in my closet, I got fed up, and just use full muti now.

 

[jim e]

I'm one of those fools who used to believe the hype that natural gut was so great.
After different racquets had strings pop in my closet, I got fed up, and just use full muti now.

If you string your own racquets, the issue is typically at the grommets. If you shank a ball, that stresses the gut at the grommet. You then place racquet in your bag. Later you open bag and find string snapped. You forgot about the mis hit and think it broke on its own in bag. Mis hits are bad for natural gut, as it stresses the string and will later snap.
If you place a very small amount of a lubricant like tri flow on a very small round brush and lube the grommets before you string the gut, it greatly reduces the chance of that happening again. I string a decent amount of natural gut, and once I started using the lube, those snaps don't happen any more. Even uncoated natural gut holds up well for me. Only downside is the need to clean up the machine well after using the lube.
In my opinion multi does not come close enough to the feel and characteristics of natural gut.

 

[struggle]

Multi is no replacement for NG, but I do suppose it’s as close as it gets if you use a high end multi.

The lube trick does seem to help.

 

[stapletonj]

yeah, this was a racket I had strung before I discovered triflow. It was a backup racket I had not hit with in weeks, so it would have had to been a very old shank....

 

[silentkman]

I've never had that problem with NG. I did switch to NG/poly hybrid because of cost.

 

[Rabbit]

yeah, this was a racket I had strung before I discovered triflow. It was a backup racket I had not hit with in weeks, so it would have had to been a very old shank....

How long has it been strung? I remember Ron Yu telling someone who had an authentic Federer frame that the guy in it would eventually break. He had offered to restring it when it did.

 

[struggle]

I just had one break in the bag recently (at the head end grommet, likely from a shank), but it was well used and I wasn’t surprised nor disappointed. This particular racket has a rattle (that I just tolerated throughout the string job) so I need to strip the grommets and fish out the culprit….

 

[Wes]

This particular racket has a rattle (that I just tolerated throughout the string job) so I need to strip the grommets and fish out the culprit….

Before you go quite to those lengths (unless you're wanting to replace the grommets anyway), open up the buttcap's trapdoor (presuming that it has one) and then try to shake out/knock out whatever's inside the frame (my bet is on it being particulate from clay courts).

Try tapping the (now opened) buttcap against the ground (which has a rug, carpet, or a towel laid down).

If you happen to have an air compressor to shoot air into/through the frame, all the better.

 

[struggle]

Before you go quite to those lengths (unless you're wanting to replace the grommets anyway), open up the buttcap's trapdoor (presuming that it has one) and then try to shake out/knock out whatever's inside the frame (my bet is on it being particulate from clay courts).

Try tapping the (now opened) buttcap against the ground (which has a rug, carpet, or a towel laid down).

If you happen to have an air compressor to shoot air into/through the frame, all the better.

no trap door, need new grommets anyhow. thx

 

[struggle]

no trap door, need new grommets anyhow. thx

@Wes full circle, no trap door but the piece won’t come out via pulling the grommets. Banging it around brought it to the butt cap.

I’m lazy, but that’s next. Just wanted to fluff you, wish I had a trap door. Now just gotta decide what to re-grip with….

Haha

 

[Youngheart]

Is there any chance that there is a trap door, but the edges of it are hidden by the overgrip slightly covering it?
If no door, why not use a sharp knife, and make one? It's not priceless art.

 

[struggle]

Like I said, there is no trap door….

Creating one? WTF…

I can remove and install stapes.

 

[Youngheart]

Like I said, there is no trap door….

Creating one? WTF…

I can remove and install stapes.

That sounds okay, but each time that you want to make an adjustment to handle weight, or just look inside,
it means unwrapping all your grips. If you cut a door, then it's easier each time in the future.

 

[struggle]

That sounds okay, but each time that you want to make an adjustment to handle weight, or just look inside,
it means unwrapping all your grips. If you cut a door, then it's easier each time in the future.

I’m not a tweaker. My racquets have been matched for years.

I’m hard pressed to replace an old over grip.

People who constantly tweak their racquets are just weird and spend too much time on the interwebs.