Natural gut on the main and RPM blast on the cross

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by borna coric, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. borna coric

    borna coric Rookie

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    I used to have Babolat Natural Gut on the main @47 lbs and Luxilon ALU on the cross @45 lbs. About 99% of the times, the main breaks before the cross so I have to restring the whole racquet.

    I recently switch to RPM blast on the cross and I notice that about 50% of the times, the cross will break first while the Natural Gut on the main is still in pretty good shape. Is it possible for me just to re-string the cross only? if so, how do you go about doing it? Does it mean i place the racquet onto the machine, set it properly and then cut the cross? I just don't want to waste the still good Babolat NG string on the main.

    Any advice on how I can go about doing it? TIA
     
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  2. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Possible? Yes.
    Yeah, don't.
     
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  3. borna coric

    borna coric Rookie

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    Are you saying when the cross breaks, cut the whole thing and starts over?
     
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  4. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Yes, restring the whole frame. There are some threads on here that you can read for advocates of restringing just the crosses but you will read many counters that recommend against it (including many of my responses).
     
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  5. jim e

    jim e Legend

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    Restring the entire job. You can never get a consistent job by only partial replacement, as the characteristics of the now used main strings have changed and is not a duplicate of the original string job. Stringers strive for consistency, although there are many bizzarre stringing practices that some stringers on these forums do, but are not the normal acceptable practices.@MAX PLY is correct with his above comments
     
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  6. FFo

    FFo New User

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    Of course you can string the crosses only, you can do what ever you like. It wont be the same as stringing the whole racket but if it's for yourself why not try it?
    Just mount the racket to the machine before you cut the crosses and then string the crosses normally.
     
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  7. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Have you tried a different cross, or different gauge? Are the breaks strictly the result of shanks? There are some people who re-string the crosses only, but there are mutants who do all types of weird stuff. Like the others here, I would not recommend it.
     
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  8. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    @jim e, I thought one of the main benefits of Natural Gut was that the characteristics of the string did not change much over a long period of use almost to the point of breakage. Your comment seems to suggest NG does not offer any significant benefits in that area. What gives?
     
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  9. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    I would absolutely redo the crosses. Just mount the racquet in the machine before cutting out the crosses. Then change the weave so the crosses are on the opposite side of the mains than the 1st crosses

    Just ignore the naysayers and try it for yourself. There are threads here talking about it.
     
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  10. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Reported for antimutantism.
     
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  11. jim e

    jim e Legend

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    The strIng is going to change once used, all strings do.Yes Nat. gut hits well till it breaks, but if you keep main string gut in racquet after it is used, and change out just cross strings it will not be the same as a fresh string job if entire racquet was strung.
    Nat. gut will hit well until it breaks due to its resilience and elasticity which sets that string apart from all the synthetics, but it will loose tension. All strings will loose tension and you will never duplicate the original job.
    Most stringers strive for consistency and you will not get a consistent job changing out just cross strings. Doing that is almost as bad as some posters here commenting reusing string, which I am glad they have not continued to post on that bizzarre practice.
    Keeping gut mains that have been used, those strings have a lower tension, so just what exact tension is used on cross strings to make feel the same as a complete strung racquet? There will be no consistency at all.
    Gut hits well till it breaks, but string will change.If you think it does not then do as you please, but I would not string a partial job for a customer if I was asked.I would not do it for myself and would not do it for anyone else.If you feel different, then do as you want, I just try and help stringers here who want to know proper and accepted procedures as some people look on these boards for guidance to know what is proper, and posts of some stringers .who vary from the normal, should be pointed out so they would know what is standard protocol.
    You may not agree with me, and that is your choice, you have your thoughts, and you know mine on this.
    It has to be pointed out that only stringing cross strings is not standard protocol.There are org. like the USRSA and the IART that promotes proper stringing to set the standard of care and who are there to promote the craft and take pride in the job that they produce. Those looking on these boards will not find that as much due to different practices.
    If you want to just swap out cross strings have at it if you want to save $ , but inform others that there is a compromise and one that most stringrs typically will not follow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  12. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Have you done it?
     
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  13. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    OP - you have to make up your own mind about reusing string. The advice you get here is exactly that, just advice. If you were going to be sentenced to jail for thinking about reusing NG, then probably don't do it. However this is not the case here. As Shroud advocates, try it before you decide whether the points raised are valid. I have done cases where I just did crosses. Some clients were OK with the final results, others were not. My 3¢ is to advise against it for normal synthetic strings. For NG, I am not decided yet.
     
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  14. borna coric

    borna coric Rookie

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    good morning everyone,

    Thank you very much for your advice. I did reuse the NG by just stringing the cross. I am doing this for my 17 years old son who is a 4 star recruit and he mentioned that he can not tell the difference between a reuse a NG racquet and a brand new string with NG on the main and RPM blast on the cross. Since I am stringing for myself and my son/daughter, I don't have to worry about clients complaining :)

    Not string the NG on the main saves me about 8 additional minutes; however, I will go with the advice with the restring both the main NG and the cross with Luxilon ALU this time so that the main will break first before the cross.

    I just hate the fact that whenever the cross breaks first, I am wasting about $22 (half the set of NG) by also cutting the main NG as well I do understand that it makes perfect sense now.

    Thanks again.
     
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  15. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    It's only a 'waste' if the string is breaking considerably faster when you use RPM Blast as the cross. If you are getting roughly the same amount of playing time, then the decision should be make on which setup you (or your children) prefer playing with.
     
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  16. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    FWIW, I agree with eveything you have said. I would never attempt to reuse he main strings and just restring crosses. But I have a different compelling reason for avoiding the practice. I think it is quite difficult to untie the knot that anchors the top cross string to the tie-off main string. I would probably knick the main string in the attempt to unknot the cross string. In that instance, if the main string didn't then snap during the stringing process, it would probably snap soon after during hitting.
     
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  17. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    If this is your only concern, you could use a starting clamp and tie off the top cross to another cross. It may require enlarging a grommet.
     
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  18. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    I did, many times :)

    I mount the racket, and cut the crosses. But I untie the gut-mains also, and retension these (in a pefect world you anticipated this, and made knots eg with inserts for easier untying)

    There is another trick: use the gut-mains "inside out". The heaviest wear is on the sweetspot, in the center mains.
    So, remove the gut, cut in the middle, and tie together again with the " old" ends. So, you will have a "fresh" sweetspot.

    I only do this for my own frames, and my wive's. I'm Dutch, so I don't like to waste perfectly fine gut.
     
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  19. borna coric

    borna coric Rookie

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    Oh, so you "untie" the gut-mains and restring the main again with the same string?

    that sound like a lot of work, at least for me :-(. I'll go ahead and put on fresh string on both main and cross since my wife bought me 40 sets of Babolat NG string as birthday gift so it will last me for at least 1 1/2 years.
     
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  20. jim e

    jim e Legend

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    I was afraid that this post was going to bring out the mutants!
     
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  21. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    Agree on this. if you are going to string the cross only, you have to do it Right away while on the machine. if you let it sit for hours then it can warp or break the racket
     
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  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You’re never going to get the same result at the first time it was strung using this method. I never have strung crosses / main only and I never will. I’ve heard insanity is doing to same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I think drastically changing the process and expecting the same result is insane too.
     
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  23. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Well, I guess if I just re-strung crosses all of the time, I would expect a different result each and every time. The odd part is that the advocates of cross re-stringing expect the same result each and every time, but in fact it is always different. Sanity, insanity or simply mutation?
     
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  24. jim e

    jim e Legend

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    New stringers on this site really need to know what is normal acceptable stringing protocols, apart from abnormal stringing practices.
     
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  25. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    All the time? You mean every other time? The OP say 50% of the time with gut mains the cross breaks first. When the cross breaks the racket compressed by the gut mains. Therefore I would imagine the racket compressing a bit and you’ll never get the original tension back on the mains. When the gut breaks the next time you start over again getting different results every other time you string the racket. It you want to avoid the expense of extending the life of a half set of gut do it right and switch the string and string the whole racket every time.

    It is also possible to string mains only too. Tie mains on mains and crosses on crosses.
     
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  26. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    I dont think that is true. The results of not restringing are different in that any racquet the string bed changes over time. All you “consistant results” guys who poopoo this can only acheive your goals by being like the pros and changing sticks everytime the balls are changed.

    Said another way the moment you tie the last knot the string bed changes and tension loss starts. Thats ok with everyone it seems if it happens slowly and gradually and aligns with some holy books notion, but if one starts the cycle over by restringing the crosses omg the world is wrong and the mutant apocolypse is among us.

    Yet Have the orthodoxy even tried it? Most refuse to even do it and without knowing what the results really are they have to save everyone. I bet they dont like broccoli either and have never tried it. Thats flawed logic imho.

    And while i dont know the numbers dont most rec players have a hard time noticing 5lb differences in tensions? Yet they are like the princess and the pea when it comes to restringing the crosses? Lmao

    I have tried it and always restring the crosses because at some point the stringbed has a lower DT measurement than I like and restringing the crosses raises it up and keeps me playing. Since i use kevlar mains the mains once settled play the same and I avoid that initial boardy period as the mains are already broken in. In the Ops case i can absolutely see saving my investment in expensive natural gut. And actually having restrung crosses know its worthwhile to do

    Ymmv
     
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  27. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Well, you've given me pause . . . largely because you have found a way to overcome that "initial boardy period" of Kevlar/Prince Poly at 86/86 in a 422g Profile. Kudos!
     
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  28. tennisbike

    tennisbike Rookie

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    Now! For something completely different, I know for fact that a Dunlop MaxPly Fort, a "heavy", that I picked from local recycle center came with 12 knots on the gut string bed. It was such a pain trying to remove the strings that are stuck onto the grommet hole.

    First time, I restrung the cross on a fairly fresh fb of 45 lb RPM Blast. Raised the cross tension to 48 lbs and it actually increased the main tension by about 3 lbs each.

    2nd time, on a well used hybrid broken sg cross. The poly main was slightly notched so I restrung on the other side. Unfortunately the main broke in about two days. This is why you do not want to only restring the cross.

    The other time, I cut out the sg cross and put poly cross to get more control on a OS racket. Eventually, the poly cross notched the sg main pretty severely. Somehow the notched sg main still slid on the poly cross though did not really move back.

    I think restrung cross string is definitely doable. You might need to experiment the cross tension to find what works.
     
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  29. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    Yeah, if you take the crosstension high enough, you will deform the head (longer, narrower) and automatically increase the maintension.

    But that's not the path I would follow :).
    Head-deformation is a 100% nono.
     
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  30. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah thats the common wisdom badge of honor sentiment.

    Yet all those in that camp will happily string gut/poly. Best tension maintenance with the worst. What do you think happens to the head after the poly relaxes and loses tension??

    Measure a gut/poly setup for deformation after a week or two and off the stringer and see. Bet you will have the dreaded head deformation...
     
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  31. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah i am super talented. High sw over 390 and a 110@ makes it less boardy than that sounds. And yeah its relative to the initial dt. I can play great between 56 to 54. Any lower and I dont seem to do as well. So then I restring the cross. That usually gets me up in the playable range again.
     
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  32. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    No, cause I pre-stretch the poly at +50%

    Edit: and my ref.tensions are ~50% of yours
     
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  33. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

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    This is yet another aspect of nat.gut I hate/d,,
    it puts you in this uncomfortable dilemma of weather or not you should prolong the life of nat.gut strings to get your moneys worth..
    save your money, switch to multis!
    Get 3x more string and string more often..
     
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  34. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Nice Monty Python reference, ahh my misspent youth....

    A buddy of mine who is 72 grew up in Chile. He started playing tennis when he was 8 at his father's behest and later played in the Orange Bowl in Miami and was a D1 player in the mid 60s. Anyway, his father would have the local stringer replace the string that broke in his frames. That's right, the one string. And players today worry and fret over a gram of total weight here and whether there is friction enough to "uneven" a frame's tension.
     
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  35. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Ah yes, the days of wood racquets and the good ol' patch string. At the pro shop I worked at, we kept leftover lengths of string in an old metal gut canister for just that purpose (and always tried to match the type of string)--I think we charged 50 cents to patch (even if the string was Victor Imperial Gut!).
     
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  36. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, a buddy of mine who now owns the pro shop he worked at back in the 70s said there was a guy who wanted his rackets restrung with VS before he played each match. My buddy used to cut the tie off string as close to the frame as he could then unstring it. He then used to gut to string his frame. :)
     
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  37. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Really? You prestretch poly? Be warned the stringing police will get you for murder...
     
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  38. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    Well, as "Mr. Extreme" yourself you are very familiar with the stringing-police :)
    Yes, I know I "change" the string. But every player changes the string while playing. When using a poly you often hear that the poly needs to "break-in", and after that plays fine for 4-12 hrs.
    I wonder, if you would remove the string after it has been " broken-in" and test it, if it would be close in properties to a prestretched string.
     
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  39. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Well @MathieuR, I've tried this testing various racquets ranging from stiff Babolats to softer Yonex frames.

    The conclusions I have come to is anything greater than (what I imagine) is a 5% prestretch changes the string playability immediately in a way different to not pre-stretching with 30 mins of hard hitting (ie "Broken In"). This is for racquets that are used soon after being strung.

    However, leaving a freshly strung racquet to rest for 24 hours before hitting seems to achieve the same result without the need to perform any pre-stretching. (IE The string bed seems to stabilise in the first 5 minutes of hitting rather than taking 30 minutes.)

    So I now "rest" my freshly strung racquets for at least 24 hours and often up to 72 hours before hitting with them. I get consistent results once I start hitting. I do not have that same confidence when pre-stretching.

    Does pre-stretching increase the useful playable life of a Poly string? Possibly. But doing it just to gain perhaps 2 to 4 hours of extra life at the end of the string's cycle simply doesn't stack up against the benefits of using freshly strung racquets more frequently. Especially when I have the time and flexibility of being able to restring whenever I wish AND the cost of the string I use is reasonable when purchased by the reel.

    Give me a fresh rested string bed anytime.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  40. MathieuR

    MathieuR Professional

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    Agree, this is nice. But even the you have a rather fast decline in quality and consistency.
    Why do pro's change frames every 9 games?

    I pre-stretch (+50%), and use proportional stringing ("own recipe").
    This gives me consistent playing not for a few hrs more, but several weeks (~6); and even after that time the decline is slow.
     
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  41. Suge

    Suge New User

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    How long are you using these strings?
    I string Ashaway im my mains and Prince SynGut/duraflex in the crosses. I tried restring the just the crosses (Spoke with Ashaway regarding this, Ashaway stated there are people that restring the crosses with Kevlar in the mains) once, just not worth the trip. I try to restring after every use (yes even with my setup). So I am not really worried about my strings breaking... A pro will have racquets unused in their bag and will still restring the unused racquets...

    It's a feel thing...
     
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  42. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Not all pros change frames every 9 games. The vast minority, if any, of pros pre-stretch poly. I've only seen it with 2 - 3 WTA players in 10 years of stringing for a WTA tournament. And I've never ever ever ever ever heard of a 50% pre-stretch. This, as @Shroud, definitely qualifies as an outlier.
     
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  43. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I see of lot of methods, string setups, or tensions I don't really agree with but as far as I am concerned what someone wants to do with their racket is 100% up to them. And more power to them. I would not string Kevlar / Poly hybrids, 86 lbs tension w/Kevlar, 2:1 main:cross differential 400+ SW numbers, 14+ oz rackets. 5-6" grip sixes, rectangular or square grips or any other 'strange' or generally ludicrous methods but if that's what someone wants then go for it. If you like it great I'd love to hear about it.

    There are three principal means of acquiring knowledge... observation of nature, reflection, and experimentation. Observation collects facts; reflection combines them; experimentation verifies the result of that combination. Denis Diderot
     
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  44. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Yes! But given the choice you would still prefer to have a fresh bed, or one as close to it, every time? Wouldn't you?

    Of course you would :)

    I know I do!
     
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  45. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    Patching wood rackets was pretty common back in the 70s.
     
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  46. Karma Tennis

    Karma Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Did you use Wood Putty or Wood Filler for those sorts of jobs ?

    ;)
     
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  47. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Wuss :)

    Fwiw I like it

    And about the handle. Some people cant get passed the size. But a few have really liked the SHAPE. When I went to chi there were a couple posters here I hit with. To keep weight down I was starting with a 5/8 handle and squaring it off it was a bit over 5” but not the 5 1/4- 1/2 i play with. That guy commented on how he didnt think he would like the shape because he had an Eastern Fh. But he asked me how I did the handle which I am pretty sure he was going to attempt.

    Wilander has a vid about customizing the handle and suggests we should all try
     
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  48. tennisbike

    tennisbike Rookie

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    I hate to break it to you. Everything, I mean everything deforms under load. It is a matter of degree. I have to come to a realization that nothing is "solid" even a solid. It is mostly space in an atom. And everything is made of atoms so everything is mostly space.
     
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  49. Karma Tennis

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    @MathieuR, why is Head-deformation a 100% Non Non in your book?
     
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  50. HOT SHOT

    HOT SHOT New User

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    I use VS/RPM at 50LBS I am still struggling to choose between it and VS/4G.
     
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