Navratilova calls for grunting to be banned

[Bud]

I totally agree! Grunting should be banned. If you grunt during a point, you should automatically lose the point.

Let's see Nadal or Sharapova win another match.

So you could be banned from the TT, right?

I don't get it

Is this the same Navratilova who fled communist The Czech Republic ....uhhh What would the penalty be for grunting? Points, games, $ fines. Don't ya hate it when some people that have a mic in their face just shouldn't. Some opinions need to stay in your head and never make to the vocal cords.

What does fleeing a communist country have to do with her opinion about grunting?

I do think banning should be grunted, especially Serena, I can barely watch her.

Banning should be grunted?

She certainl has; as have Serena, Venus, and the grandmother of grunt Monica Seles.

edit: BTW, I just coined Monica "The Grandmother of Grunt" Seles any subsequent use should give me credit.

You sure you want credit for that?

 

[BreakPoint]

agreed. Sharapova screams during every shot, even the ones that don't require much effort at all.

Yup, Sharapova screams at the top of her lungs even when she hits a drop shot. That's clearly trying to make your opponent think you've hit the ball harder than you actually did.

 

[GoaLaSSo]

WTA players must play with muzzles. That is the only logical solution.

 

[BreakPoint]

So you could be banned from the TT, right?

Um...I don't grunt when I hit the ball.

I'm as quiet as Sampras or Federer when they play.

 

[jigar]

WTA girls should be given something in the mouth so they can keep it quite.

 

[theagassiman]

Because you can control grunting but not sweating.

Sharapova has actually played without grunting before, so she does indeed have full control over it.

REally?
Which match?

 

[Lionheart392]

WTA girls should be given something in the mouth so they can keep it quite.

...Like what?

 

[BreakPoint]

I also find Nadal's loud grunting very annoying. That's just another reason I don't like his game.

Just hit the ball and keep your mouth shut like Borg did.

 

[BreakPoint]

REally?
Which match?

I can't remember which one specifically but there was one in which she was quiet for almost a whole set because there were so many complaints about her screaming throughout the tournament.

 

[kanamit]

Yes, ban unnecessary grunting/screaming/shrieking? What makes a reasonable grunt from massive exertion different than unnecessary gamesmanship? Leave it to the discretion of the chair umpire like other important issues are regarding the acceptability of the players' behavior.

Just take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

Who would pay money to watch this stuff?

 

[ronalditop]

This is a free world. People can grunt as they please. No one complains about her grunting when she goes down on another woman.

If you ever play with a shrieker you would change your mind. It impossible to concentrate when the other player is screaming after every shot.

 

[Serendipitous]

Grunting can't be banned.


The decision to give a point penalty for grunting is almost as obscure as the decision to give a point penalty for taking too much time in between points.

 

[nothingfails]

She has sunk so low. She complained about Seles' grunts during her semi final at Wimbledon, then helped her come back. And now stab her in the back -no pun intented. Navratilova keeps living in the past, pretty pathetic.

 

[maddogz32]

if you need to grunt you can, sometimes if you are tired you need to grunt if you are putting energy into hitting the ball, how is it cheating

 

[oberyn]

Grunting can't be banned.


The decision to give a point penalty for grunting is almost as obscure as the decision to give a point penalty for taking too much time in between points.

I agree with you.

Reading some of these posts, I'm picturing a chair umpire stopping play to check the decibel level on Player X's grunt/shriek. He'll then have to consult a replay to determine, in his judgment, whether the effort expended to hit the shot warranted the grunt/shriek. The player's fitness level and stroke mechanics would, of course, have to factor into the equation. Yep, sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I'm sure the players would be thrilled, too.

 

[Serendipitous]

I agree with you.

Reading some of these posts, I'm picturing a chair umpire stopping play to check the decibel level on Player X's grunt/shriek. He'll then have to consult a replay to determine, in his judgment, whether the effort expended to hit the shot warranted the grunt/shriek. The player's fitness level and stroke mechanics would, of course, have to factor into the equation. Yep, sounds perfectly reasonable to me and I'm sure the players would be thrilled, too.

Yeah, it would slow down matches considerably if an argument ensued. The crowd would hate it, the players would hate it, the commentators would hate it, and there would be some post-match controversy and accusations.

The problem is, there are only a few players, like Sharapova, who create a bad reputation for the concept of grunting.

 

[stormholloway]

This is a free world. People can grunt as they please. No one complains about her grunting when she goes down on another woman.

If I played with Sharapova, believe me, her shrieking will only give me a hard-on, which will only motivate me to play better, so that afterwards, I will then make her shriek in bed.

You're officially an idiot. Congratulations. Your certificate is in the mail.

And no, this isn't a free world.

Grunting can't be banned.

The decision to give a point penalty for grunting is almost as obscure as the decision to give a point penalty for taking too much time in between points.

Do you also think it should be allowed to yell at your opponent as they serve or hit ground strokes? Is there no line to be drawn that should control players etiquette on court?

There's nothing obscure about a rule stating a certain amount of time allotted between points. Umpires simply aren't enforcing the rule.

 

[Serendipitous]

Do you also think it should be allowed to yell at your opponent as they serve or hit ground strokes? Is there no line to be drawn that should control players etiquette on court?

There's nothing obscure about a rule stating a certain amount of time allotted between points. Umpires simply aren't enforcing the rule.

Of course proper player etiquette should be emphasized, but I thought this thread was about grunting. I would certainly not condone a player yelling at his/her opponent while he/she serves or hits groundstrokes.

As for your second point, how do you propose umpires should enforce the time rule?

If they haven't enforced it, it's because they don't really know how to do it properly without raising chaos.

 

[malakas]

I may deserve my certificate, but you should get one too for living in Italy, the land of Berlusconi, the man who owns the whole country and wants to bang 18 year olds.

why oh why do you have this habit of blaming people for everything that happens in their country????

btw Berlusconi is one of the most dangerous men in Europe.

 

[DNShade]

Look. It's a bit much. Especially De Brito. She is yelling and it lasts past when the other player is hitting the ball. This learned - taught - behavior and is easily un-learned. It is very easy to tell the difference between this screaming and the natural grunt during hitting. If you have ever sat in the stands or courtside during a match with these girls ( I have) - the crowd is laughing the entire time. Just from a business standpoint - the WTA should do something soon.

These girls need to be reigned in. It started with Monica and Maria took it to new heights...It needed to be curtailed back then, but now we have these young girls thinking that's how to play.

 

[malakas]

I forgot to add that centaurs and satyrs don't exist, just like Zeus.

oh no.. you didn't!!!

seriously though I know you make it us a joke,but it isn't.Ppl are sensitive about their countries.I tell this as a friendly advise.

 

[malakas]

If people are sensitive about their countries, then they should open their eyes. We all have more in common than you think. Nationalities are just a convenient means for people in power to control the masses. The average Israeli and Palestinian has more in common than people in the Israeli government and Hamas.

Besides, the first step towards humility is to be able to laugh at oneself.

I love to laugh at myself.The most jokes I make are about myself.And I agree about what you say,but I didn't see you make any jokes about your country,rather about other ppl's countries.And alas you may hear most ppl critisizing their own country but when a foreigner does it for them,they tend to feel insulted.In this era of science,unfortunately nationalism and religion have stayed as relics from past ages.But they are still very cultivated.Everywhere.

 

[BTURNER]

I have never herd anything like that De Brito banshee business. I could not watch a match with that in it. I don't care what the title. Horrid

 

[Serendipitous]

This is absolutely hilarious.


Wow......I can't believe De Brito is not banned yet.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

 

[malakas]

I like it when foreigners criticize my country, the US of A, or as Borat calls it, US in A! As in US in Ass!

yes but you see,though I have pretty many things to critisize I just don't want to go down that road.My country sucks,your country sucks we both know it,so why bother?If I want to answer your post,and I don't find it utterly ridiculous,I will use arguments and not attempted jokes at personal traits or countries characteristics.So please,I tell you to stop.I say this politely because I know you can understand my logic behind this.

 

[Ken B.]

Players should aim to hit De Brito every time they play her until she stops that shrieking, that's just disgusting.

If you were walking in one of the venues and she was on Court 7 or something and you heard the screams, you would think someone is being stabbed.

 

[imalil2gangsta4u]

this is the first time i heard de brito and all i have to say is WOW

 

[TheTruth]

I don't think anything needs to be done about it. I think this is something that some people don't like but many don't even notice it. I can tell you that when watching on TV I do notice some. I think this is largely due to the microphones on court for TV. In person it's not nearly as noticeable. I can also tell you that many players probably don't even notice it during a match.
When I'm playing a match my oponent could be maria sharapova stripping naked on court and screaming like a banshee and I wouldn't notice. I'm in my own world and don't hear hardly anything. I think many are making much to do about nothing here.

So many want a new rule for this and that and something else. Too many rules is not a good thing, just enough to keep order.

Great post, and you're right. You don't notice it when you're at a live tennis match.

I wonder if MN had a problem with JMac acting a fool during his time on tour. I don't like it when former pros keep trying to interfere with today's game.

 

[malakas]

De Brito's opponent actually comblained about this.So she surely noticed.

 

[Cindysphinx]

First, much of this discussion is sexist. The men grunt too. Nadal. Ferrer. There are others. They are quite loud.

Second, it is probably time for something to be done. I saw Sharapova at Indian Wells a few years back. You could tell when she was playing because you could hear her screaming *outside* the stadium. I mean, I'm buying a hot dog and I know when play has resumed because I can hear one woman shrieking above all other noise in a large stadium?

I was watching a FO match and it really got to me. Might have been Ivanovic and someone. Every single shot had a massive shriek from a player. How do the umps stand it? Maybe they wear earplugs.

Yup, just announce that any sound over X decibels will result in a warning, etc. Make it not pitch-sensitive. Make it a high enough level that normal exertion won't be a problem. Put a light out there for the ump so he/she can monitor how many times that light is going off.

It should be done for the fans. 'Cause it is hard to listen to all of that for days on end when you paid good money to go to a tournament.

 

[imalil2gangsta4u]

I agree with cindy. Men can be just as loud, but the pitch just isnt as annoying lol. Both need to be stopped i think.

 

[stormholloway]

I may deserve my certificate, but you should get one too for living in Italy, the land of Berlusconi, the man who owns the whole country and wants to bang 18 year olds.

Again, doesn't make sense. I'm American just so you know. Am I supposed to judge where I want to live based upon who may be residing in government at any given moment?

As for the sexist comment, the women are far louder in every way. There are men who grunt in an annoying fashion, but Sharapova and this De Brito beast are in a different league.

 

[cknobman]

Absolutely the best thing Ive heard Martina say since shes been a commentator. Completely agree ban the loud grunts and shrieks.

 

[kanamit]

First, much of this discussion is sexist. The men grunt too. Nadal. Ferrer. There are others. They are quite loud.

Second, it is probably time for something to be done. I saw Sharapova at Indian Wells a few years back. You could tell when she was playing because you could hear her screaming *outside* the stadium. I mean, I'm buying a hot dog and I know when play has resumed because I can hear one woman shrieking above all other noise in a large stadium?

I was watching a FO match and it really got to me. Might have been Ivanovic and someone. Every single shot had a massive shriek from a player. How do the umps stand it? Maybe they wear earplugs.

Yup, just announce that any sound over X decibels will result in a warning, etc. Make it not pitch-sensitive. Make it a high enough level that normal exertion won't be a problem. Put a light out there for the ump so he/she can monitor how many times that light is going off.

It should be done for the fans. 'Cause it is hard to listen to all of that for days on end when you paid good money to go to a tournament.

Yes, some of the men do grunt. The difference is that even the ones who do it aren't doing it consistently during points, and aren't doing it so loudly! Sharapova and De Brito are ridiculously loud and scream long past every one of their topspin groundstrokes. So why should ATP players receive equal blame when they aren't equally guilty? How is focusing on those who are the most guilty somehow anti-female or sexist? It's calling a spade a spade. As even you admit, when some of these female players start to shriek, people from *other* stadiums can hear them!!! When has that ever been the case with Nadal or Ferrer?

 

[tennis_hand]

It seems like there's a big difference between unintentional grunting and intentional grunting. I have no problem with the former. I'm not sure it can be banned, unfortunately, as it would be difficult to prove that someone was grunting intentionally.

her idea is good, but as u said, it is not possible.

this cheating is always there. nothing is purely black and white.

 

[cghipp]

I was at the SC state tournament in Aiken a couple of weekends ago and, no lie, on the court next to us was a singles match where one player didn't just grunt when she hit the ball, she grunted loudly AS HER OPPONENT hit the ball. Crazy but true. We couldn't believe what we were hearing. I never heard her opponent complain about it, and I think Ms. Double Grunt did get her butt handed to her. But I would have had an official out to that court as soon as I realized it was going on.

 

[cghipp]

Just like McEnroe's shameful behavior, the overly loud grunting should have been nipped in the bud back when it started. (I love Seles, but it's true.) It'll be much harder to put the genie - I mean piggie - back in the bottle now.

 

[TheTruth]

De Brito's opponent actually comblained about this.So she surely noticed.

Don't know if you're talking to me. My apologies if you weren't, but...

The issue I have is with former players (MN) trying to fix "what's wrong" with players now, and didn't say a word when she was playing and JMac was on the tour. Did she say anything about his behaviour? Which I think was atrocious, but somehow all I saw was him getting passes on everything he did.

Nothing in today's game is anywhere near what JMac was allowed to do, and now he's become a ******* of virtue? Since she, and to my knowledge, no one else addressed his rude and totally uncalled for behaviour they have nothing to say about anyone else.

 

[kimbahpnam]

I was at the SC state tournament in Aiken a couple of weekends ago and, no lie, on the court next to us was a singles match where one player didn't just grunt when she hit the ball, she grunted loudly AS HER OPPONENT hit the ball. Crazy but true. We couldn't believe what we were hearing. I never heard her opponent complain about it, and I think Ms. Double Grunt did get her butt handed to her. But I would have had an official out to that court as soon as I realized it was going on.

that's hilarious

 

[Court Valkyrie]

I watched a video on youtube where an 9 year old Australian girl was banned from junior tournaments because she grunted too loud. And when she was asked about it the little girl stated. "I can't play my absolute best without making my noises." And then it goes on to state she has ADD which is supposed to make it alright I guess. Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYx...DCC88E8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=167

 

[kanamit]

Don't know if you're talking to me. My apologies if you weren't, but...

The issue I have is with former players (MN) trying to fix "what's wrong" with players now, and didn't say a word when she was playing and JMac was on the tour. Did she say anything about his behaviour? Which I think was atrocious, but somehow all I saw was him getting passes on everything he did.

Nothing in today's game is anywhere near what JMac was allowed to do, and now he's become a ******* of virtue? Since she, and to my knowledge, no one else addressed his rude and totally uncalled for behaviour they have nothing to say about anyone else.

So you don't think that loud screaming during groundstrokes should be banned because you don't like JMac's attitude? Or you don't like the fact that it was MN who brought up the issue? Not a compelling argument in my view.

 

[Ken B.]

I watched a video on youtube where an 9 year old Australian girl was banned from junior tournaments because she grunted too loud. And when she was asked about it the little girl stated. "I can't play my absolute best without making my noises." And then it goes on to state she has ADD which is supposed to make it alright I guess. Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYx...DCC88E8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=167

It's not like she can't play tennis ever, just not in a league with that loud of a shriek (which is excessive, it's not a Dementieva grunt, which is acceptable).

She has a problem, there is a way to fix it; lower your shriek to a grunt or learn to be better without the grunt. It's not hard.

 

[Court Valkyrie]

It's not like she can't play tennis ever, just not in a league with that loud of a shriek (which is excessive, it's not a Dementieva grunt, which is acceptable).

She has a problem, there is a way to fix it; lower your shriek to a grunt or learn to be better without the grunt. It's not hard.

By problem, I hope you don't mean the ADD, because I have been diagnosed with ADHD and feel absolutely no need to Grunt/Scream when I play. But when I swing hard when I'm tired I do grunt. But yeah she seems to be a good little player, I wish her the best. I think one thing Martina touched on was that she believes that the grunting/screaming is taught in the academies around the world. So if there is any truth to that, there might be a way to avoid this mess in the future.

 

[Ken B.]

I meant problem as in being banned from the junior league.

 

[LPShanet]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Azarenka in this thread, as she's a major offender. Personally, grunting doesn't bother me much in an opponent, but it could affect some people.

As for the grunts themselves, it's not a just matter of volume or intensity. As Martina pointed out during a match the other day, duration matters even more. It becomes unfair when the shriek is still continuing after the ball has crossed the net and other player is hitting the ball. At that point, the receiving player can't hear the ball properly which is part of picking up its spin and trajectory, and it becomes an unfair advantage. And even if you say grunting is necessary (which I don't agree with in many cases), it never has to be done for so long.

A key element will be that if they pass a rule, they have to enforce it equally. Larcher de Brito had a fair point when she asked the umpire whether she would have warned Sharapova....of course she wouldn't, due to her status. So if they're going to crack down, they have to make it impartial and across the board.

 

[Sentinel]

The Williams sisters grunting on simple volleys has to be amongst the stupidest things in sport.

I am a fan of the Williamses, but i have to agree, that grunt or whatever the other day on a volley or picking up a dropshot (cant remember) or was it a slice, what totally not required.

 

[TheTruth]

So you don't think that loud screaming during groundstrokes should be banned because you don't like JMac's attitude? Or you don't like the fact that it was MN who brought up the issue? Not a compelling argument in my view.

I wasn't clear. I'll admit that.

1. I don't care if they ban it or not. They probably should have when Maria started, they didn't and it's spawned copycats. Their problem not mine.

2. I think Martina would have been better served to broach the issues of her day at the time, (which she didn't) than to be talking about fixing an obviously out of control problem now. Matter of fact, I don't recall her saying anything about Maria, so why is she saying something about this newcomer? Maria's been blowing our eardrums out forever.

3. Plus, how much time would it take during a match, and how would they administer discipline?

I think Michelle said it best. "Do you say that to Sharapova?"

 

[TheTruth]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Azarenka in this thread, as she's a major offender. Personally, grunting doesn't bother me much in an opponent, but it could affect some people.

As for the grunts themselves, it's not a just matter of volume or intensity. As Martina pointed out during a match the other day, duration matters even more. It becomes unfair when the shriek is still continuing after the ball has crossed the net and other player is hitting the ball. At that point, the receiving player can't hear the ball properly which is part of picking up its spin and trajectory, and it becomes an unfair advantage. And even if you say grunting is necessary (which I don't agree with in many cases), it never has to be done for so long.

A key element will be that if they pass a rule, they have to enforce it equally. Larcher de Brito had a fair point when she asked the umpire whether she would have warned Sharapova....of course she wouldn't, due to her status. So if they're going to crack down, they have to make it impartial and across the board.

That's what I meant to write . I don't like the grunting either, but when they didn't address it with Maria, you already knew problems were down the road.

 

[joeri888]

They shouldn't need a decibel meter, just if the umpire things it CAN POSSIBLY be bothering the other player it's got to stop, therefore anyone who grunts REGULARLY should learn not to. Sure if you sprint down a good dropshot you can have a grunt once, but not at every forehand or backhand or serve you hit.

 

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Grunting is fine if it is a acceptable volume level and you don't scream or roar your shots and stop until just before your opponent hits the ball. Maybe a rule that you can't make noise after the ball passes the net. Doubtful this or any grunting will ever be banned.