NBA 2019-20: Fresh Champs, Fresh Faces, Fresh Places!

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
San Antonio Spurs fan myself, since Ginóbili joined them.
This Kawhi-led Toronto championship left the Spurs forums and fans in shambles.
Half of the fans arguing bitterly with the other about who was right Popovich or Kawhi? Kawhi’s treason or Pop and front office ineptitude?
It’s easier to say that I lean on Kawhi’s side after the trophy, but that’s my take.
Yours?
Kawhi relished the chance to play with the real Finals MVP, Best In The World, KLow
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
San Antonio Spurs fan myself, since Ginóbili joined them.
This Kawhi-led Toronto championship left the Spurs forums and fans in shambles.
Half of the fans arguing bitterly with the other about who was right, Popovich or Kawhi? Kawhi’s treason or Pop and front office ineptitude?
It’s easier to say that I lean on Kawhi’s side after the trophy, but that’s my take.
Yours?
Have not followed that saga and why he left Spurs. Apparently something to do with Spurs claiming Kawhi was too slow to return from injury. We see now with Durant that a player should not be rushed back. It is the player's call on when he comes back. It's his body.

That said, the Warriors should not be throwing big $$$ at Durant and Klay.

Achilles Rupture and Torn ACL are potentially career-ending injuries. They may never come back 100%.
 
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T1000

Legend
Offseason predictions from what I can remember in the other thread
Kawhai to LAC
KD and Kyrie to Brooklyn
Klay stays in GS
LAL only signs Tobias Harris to a max, Lebron retires
Butler to Toronto
Celtics trade Tatum led package for AD

@Raul_SJ torn acl isn’t career ending especially for a player that doesn’t rely on his athleticism
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Prognosis for torn ACL is much better today due to advances in medicine and rehabilitation. In the 1980's, it was considered
a very serious injury for an NBA player. Also note that knee arthritis is very common within 10 years after torn ACL.

Thanks to advances in sports medicine, a torn ACL is not nearly the career killer it used to be.​
That’s probably small solace to Warriors guard Klay Thompson as he begins the lengthy rehab period after tearing his ACL in his left knee Thursday night in the climactic Game 6 of the NBA Finals.​

https://www.verywellhealth.com/knee-arthritis-likely-to-develop-after-acl-tear-4154784

 
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NonP

Hall of Fame
LOL, gotta love The Klaw:

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/photo-look-what-kawhi-leonard-did-after-winning-nba-title

Probably Kawhi just being Kawhi, a guy who prefers solitude most of the time. I wouldn't read too much into it.

And it looks like he might be a teetotaler himself! Man Russ is being seriously challenged as my top boy right now.

The NBA has to address the fact that there are way too many games played. Ideally only 8 teams would make the playoffs, but money. So an easier fix is shortening the regular season to about 50 games.
Ain't gonna happen. Money is the biggest reason, yes, but it also would have a significant effect on the game of basketball itself. As I've pointed out before the league offensive rating went down by an eye-popping 2.8 and 2.7 respectively (dipping from 105.0 to 102.2 and from 107.3 to 104.6) when the 1998-99 and 2011-12 seasons were cut short by 32/16 games due to the lockout and the players had less time to get in shape for the playoffs. FYI the only time going all the way back to MJ's debut ('84-85) when the league saw such a noticeable structural shift was when it banned hand-checking for the 2004-05 season whose ORtg went up by a whopping 3.2, from 102.9 in 2003-2004 to 106.1 (which BTW should give those boosters of zone defense pause, but I digress). I guarantee you there will be lots of moaning about how the offense has stagnated and the current NBA doesn't make for good TV when it shortens the regular season as you suggest.
 
F

FRV

Guest
These Pelicans have a major opportunity in front of them. I'm rooting for Lonzo Ball to become great. BI is pretty good. Zion could become a superstar. Then, what if the Pelicans can somehow finesse themselves up another spot and land RJ Barrett?
 
F

FRV

Guest
Offseason predictions from what I can remember in the other thread
Kawhai to LAC
KD and Kyrie to Brooklyn
Klay stays in GS
LAL only signs Tobias Harris to a max, Lebron retires
Butler to Toronto
Celtics trade Tatum led package for AD

@Raul_SJ torn acl isn’t career ending especially for a player that doesn’t rely on his athleticism
You still think Kawhi is leaving with a property in Toronto?
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Great conclusion to a fabulous season but the intrigue surrounding this next season is unprecedented. This offseason will dwarf The Decision 1.0 and 2.0 combined!

Can Toronto resign The Claw and keep ahead of young and improving Eastern squads?

Will the GSW Mash Squad band together in adversity and stay in contention in the West?

Where will all the FAs galore wind up?:

Some of that shine was dulled by the KD injury. It might be further dulled by the unknown extent of KT’s knee tonight.

Kyrie Irving tried to one-up The Finals today by firing his longtime agent, perhaps tipping his hand that he’s leaving Boston for perhaps Brooklyn and Jay-Z’s cadre.

Can The Process proceed with a lineup deep in talent but two spokes free to spin elsewhere in ‘19-20.

Where does The Unibrow look for everyday manscaping? Even with NOP grabbing the Zion powerball in the draft, he seems headed outta Nola and ex-Cavs GM is driving a hard bargain in an attempt to make The Process seem rather cheesy in comparison.

Injury recoveries...where do we start? KD, KT(?), LBJ, Oladipo, Nurkic, the twin trading chips for the LaBronkers Ball and Ingram???

Gonna be a crazy year and it all begins with The Draft a week from tonight (Thursday, June 20).

Vegas is now picking bucks and lakers as they signed that Davis stud
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Vegas is now picking bucks and lakers as they signed that Davis stud
Wow! Ingram, Ball and Hart to NOP along with the #4 overall this year and two more 1R picks in future draft years!

With Zion and all those players and picks, NOP will be set for the entire decade while the LABronkers are hoping the Unibrow/James tandem can win immediately with Kuzma and a backcourt TBD.
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
The LABronkers don’t have the chips Griffin is looking to receive. Guess again.
LaVar is gonna go wash his mouth. Magic shouldn't have drafted Lonzo in the first place . . . the distraction and all the excess baggage that comes with it set them back a year. Now, get Kawhi, the PAG will take care of itself.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
LaVar is gonna go wash his mouth. Magic shouldn't have drafted Lonzo in the first place . . . the distraction and all the excess baggage that comes with it set them back a year. Now, get Kawhi, the PAG will take care of itself.
LA may be the site for all 7 games of a WC final if Kawhi and another max player (Butler?) sign with the Ballmers.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Reasons that KD might leave:

1. Curry is the face of the team despite not being their best player. KD can be the big fish somewhere else.
2. Management, and possibly his teammates, questioned his commitment and rushed him back from injury.
3. Does not get along with Draymond.
4. KD has led them to championships and now Warriors have shown that they cannot win without KD. Great for legacy if he exits now.
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
LA may be the site for all 7 games of a WC final if Kawhi and another max player (Butler?) sign with the Ballmers.
For some reason, I don't think a Ballmer or an Allen-owned team [They are not Cubes] will ever win a championship no matter the talent and the star misalignment. Rob Pelinka will make it happen to either acquire Kawhi or Jimmy, else face the wrath of the king.;)
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Reasons that KD might leave:

1. Curry is the face of the team despite not being their best player. KD can be the big fish somewhere else.
2. Management, and possibly his teammates, questioned his commitment and rushed him back from injury.
3. Does not get along with Draymond.
4. KD has led them to championships and now Warriors have shown that they cannot win without KD. Great for legacy if he exits now.
How soon we forget the Grant Hill/Magic debacle! It will test the faith of any owner/GM to sign him to a max deal knowing he’s likely not playing at all in ‘19-‘20 and possibly damaged goods when he does return at age 31/32. Hill turned 28 the month before he was to make his Magic debut. KD will turn 31 on crutches this September and probably doesn’t dress for a game until he’s a month past 32.

Durant’s max money is earned as a Warrior. If the team indeed “pressured” him to suit up for Game 5, I agree he looks for less money elsewhere if there’s a bidder out there. I don’t buy he was pressed into playing by anything other than his own competitive nature. He had to know all that was at risk if he blew out the wheel. He and his agent would have said, “Do it on your own!” Thus, if he’s looking for max money, something he already gave up once, he’s voiding his last year and re-signing with moneybags Lacob, the guy with an incredible revenue stream from that new Palace on the other side of The Bay. He can absorb the luxury tax double/triple whammy and get ink on paper for KD and KT. That leaves only Draymond out there after 2019-20 and they’ll cross that bridge when they see what condition their conditions are in.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
For some reason, I don't think a Ballmer or an Allen-owned team [They are not Cubes] will ever win a championship no matter the talent and the star misalignment. Rob Pelinka will make it happen to either acquire Kawhi or Jimmy, else face the wrath of the king.;)
Kawhi as a second/third wheel? Not gonna happen.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
KD was in NYC for his surgery... but also reportedly had a meeting with Kyrie... Maybe it's just a casual hello.
Or maybe they are discussing going to the Nets together
:unsure:

NBA news: Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, free agency rumours, New York ...
https://www.news.com.au/...durant-kyrie.../4012b2ab1b7df605e487f714b5de0008

9 hours ago - Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving have reportedly huddled in New York City to talk about joining forces with the same team in free agency. Ric Bucher of Bleacher Report said on Friday on Fox Sports Radio that the meeting between the two superstars likely means Durant won’t be ...
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Durant’s max money is earned as a Warrior.
Not too familiar with the salary/contract rules. How much of a differential are we talking about?
What precludes KD from getting approximately the same money elsewhere, such as from the Knicks or Nets?
:unsure:
“I’m told Kevin Durant is out of the hospital, moved into a hotel for the time being in the New York area, and him and Kyrie have met and have continued to discuss playing together next season. KD has moved all his stuff and will spend his summer in New York,” Bucher said.​
“Every indication says KD is making plans to be elsewhere because obviously Kyrie will not be joining the Warriors any time soon.”​
Multiple reports in recent days said Irving intends to leave the Boston Celtics when he becomes a free agent on June 30, with the Brooklyn Nets predicted to be his desired destination.​
Brooklyn has one slot available for a max contract, but Ian Begley of SNY reported a second spot could open up if the Nets don’t bring back point guard D’Angelo Russell.​
 
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stringertom

Bionic Poster
Not too familiar with the salary/contract rules.
What precludes KD from getting approximately the same money elsewhere, such as the Knicks or Nets?
It is weighted to encourage players to stay with their existing teams. It’s 4 years/$160million elsewhere for KD. If he stays, It’s 5 years/$221million.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
It is weighted to encourage players to stay with their existing teams. It’s 4 years/$160million elsewhere for KD. If he stays, It’s 5 years/$221million.
I was thinking maybe KD could exercise his option, sit and collect $31.5 million from Warriors next season. Go through rehab and then decide whether to leave or re-sign with Warriors.

But I suppose if Warriors are offering him super max 5 years $221 Million now, despite the injury cloud hanging over him, there is no scenario whereby KD exercises his option.

But I still have doubts that Warriors are gonna offer him super max... Too risky.

If possible (does KD have a no trade clause?), Warriors should look to trade KD now to the Knicks.
 
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stringertom

Bionic Poster
I was thinking maybe KD could exercise his option, sit and collect $31.5 million from Warriors next season. Go through rehab and then decide whether to leave or re-sign with Warriors.

But I suppose if Warriors are offering him super max 5 years $221 Million now, despite the injury cloud hanging over him, there is no scenario whereby KD exercises his option.

But I still have doubts that Warriors are gonna offer him super max... Too risky.

If possible (does KD have a no trade clause?), Warriors should look to trade KD now to the Knicks.
I’m going to trust Brian Windhorst and his sources have told him GSW intends to offer both KD and KT the super max 5-year deals despite their injury statuses. It’s been all over the Internet since Friday morning.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
I’m going to trust Brian Windhorst and his sources have told him GSW intends to offer both KD and KT the super max 5-year deals despite their injury statuses. It’s been all over the Internet since Friday morning.
So it looks like KD will have to choose between the Warriors 5 year $220 Million or 4 year $160 Million with another team.
It's gonna be a bit embarrassing to the Warriors if he turns them down, although they would privately be breathing a sigh of relief.

Also interesting that while KT has committed to accepting, KD has left Kerr in the dark.
:unsure:

Wherever Durant goes, he figures to sign a long-term deal. The question is which team will land his services. Asked Friday about Durant’s future, Warriors head coach Steve Kerr said, “I have no idea what Kevin is going to do. I know that we all want him back.”​
Does Klay Thompson return?
Thompson’s plans are far clearer than Durant’s. Although Thompson could miss all of next season with a torn left ACL, he is still expected to receive a five-year max contract offer from the Warriors worth $190 million, according to league sources. Asked Friday whether Thompson would sign that deal, his father, Mychal Thompson, said, “No question.”
 

T1000

Legend
Offseason predictions from what I can remember in the other thread
Kawhai to LAC
KD and Kyrie to Brooklyn
Klay stays in GS
LAL only signs Tobias Harris to a max, Lebron retires
Butler to Toronto
Celtics trade Tatum led package for AD

@Raul_SJ torn acl isn’t career ending especially for a player that doesn’t rely on his athleticism
This aged well. Might as well put all your money on the opposite happening.

I’m still in shock that NO settled for two busts, a role player, #4 in the weakest draft in a decade that has little value after #2, and two future first which will be mid to late picks. I didn’t really want AD on the Knicks but Porzingis and a future first is a much better return and a Boston package minus Tatum would’ve been better
 

Vcore89

G.O.A.T.
Kawhi as a second/third wheel? Not gonna happen.
He knows there's no way the Raps could've withstood a healthy KD-led assault. Upon reflection, embracing the power of collaboration with an effective, efficient and better player than himself is a recipe to continued success. Until LBJ and KD retire, he'll be number 3. Just like Pat Riley said when MJ was playing, everyone else is playing second fiddle.
 
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victorcruz

Professional
This aged well. Might as well put all your money on the opposite happening.

I’m still in shock that NO settled for two busts, a role player, #4 in the weakest draft in a decade that has little value after #2, and two future first which will be mid to late picks. I didn’t really want AD on the Knicks but Porzingis and a future first is a much better return and a Boston package minus Tatum would’ve been better
How can you say there is little value after Morant? RJ is good, c'mon man. He could become a non-flopping version of Harden.

I think Ingram and Ball could develop on a team without major pressure on them. Ball was not going to improve his shot on a win-now team. But he's also injury prone so there's that. Ingram is talented but he's missing the drive to become a star. Some of the later picks were ability to swap... which if the Lakers fizzle out after 2-3 years could come back to haunt them. I also didn't want AD on the Knicks, especially if it was gonna cost them everything (which the Knicks don't have much of anyway lol). And he hasn't exactly proven anything as the 1st option.
 
F

FRV

Guest
So if Klay stays with the Warriors he could come back around March, right? I'd say the Warriors still have a puncher's chance at the chip. Lakers being the obvious front runners at this point.
 
How can you say there is little value after Morant? RJ is good, c'mon man. He could become a non-flopping version of Harden.

I think Ingram and Ball could develop on a team without major pressure on them. Ball was not going to improve his shot on a win-now team. But he's also injury prone so there's that. Ingram is talented but he's missing the drive to become a star. Some of the later picks were ability to swap... which if the Lakers fizzle out after 2-3 years could come back to haunt them. I also didn't want AD on the Knicks, especially if it was gonna cost them everything (which the Knicks don't have much of anyway lol). And he hasn't exactly proven anything as the 1st option.
Barrett is more of a Derozan than a Harden. Barrett couldn’t even shoot 3s from the college 3 pt line very well.
 

victorcruz

Professional
Barrett is more of a Derozan than a Harden. Barrett couldn’t even shoot 3s from the college 3 pt line very well.
Harden wasn't Harden in college either, otherwise he would have been the 1st or 2nd pick (after Curry). Michael Jordan wasn't Michael Jordan in college as well. People don't max out in college...although I have a hard time believing Zion is gonna be dominating everyone in the NBA as he was in college.
 

donquijote

Legend
So if Klay stays with the Warriors he could come back around March, right? I'd say the Warriors still have a puncher's chance at the chip. Lakers being the obvious front runners at this point.
Kay can come back as early as January depending on the timing of ACL operation. It should not affect him as much as he is a pure shooter but won't be 100% anymore.
 
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donquijote

Legend
Green wants to stay in Toronto. Could that be a hint about Kawhi? After all they are in the same team and know what can happen.
 
Harden wasn't Harden in college either, otherwise he would have been the 1st or 2nd pick (after Curry). Michael Jordan wasn't Michael Jordan in college as well. People don't max out in college...although I have a hard time believing Zion is gonna be dominating everyone in the NBA as he was in college.
Well yeah but I still just don’t see the comparison really. He’s a poor defender and an inefficient scorer. It’s hard for me to see him taking over games like James Harden. Last Duke player hyped up to be the next Harden was Justise Winslow and he is a role player at best four years later.

The problem is that inherently everyone wants to compare a prospect to a current player and it just never really pans out that way.

I didn’t see much of Morant but Zion is considerably better than Barrett. I honestly am just as skittish on Barrett as I am Cam Reddish.

I don’t think it’s unfair to say this is a weak draft on the surface even if Barrett does live up to the hype.

That said there’s no tangible way to measure potential. I can only go off what I saw watching RJ play all year. He reminded me of Derozan if anyone like I said. Can’t shoot from deep, poor defender, poor ft shooter, turnover machine, gets tunnel vision etc. When Zion went down Duke looked awful.

The only bonafide superstar on Duke I saw was Zion.

I think Barrett will be a 20 ppg guy that makes a lot of money but I’d personally be surprised if he was a superstar. So in other words.. a Derozan :p

Just my two cents. Time will tell. I just find comparisons in general to be a frivolous exercise.

I’m not even 100 percent certain on anyone to be brutally honest. This is a tricky draft. Past Zion I think a lot of picks are just hoping the potential comes to fruition. Morant included.
 
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stringertom

Bionic Poster
Harden wasn't Harden in college either, otherwise he would have been the 1st or 2nd pick (after Curry). Michael Jordan wasn't Michael Jordan in college as well. People don't max out in college...although I have a hard time believing Zion is gonna be dominating everyone in the NBA as he was in college.
Harden was the first backcourt draftee and third overall in the same draft that saw Curry go 7th.
 

donquijote

Legend
Over a million people is expected today in Raptors championship parade. Unfortunately I will not be there because of duties.
 

hollywood9826

Hall of Fame
Harden was the first backcourt draftee and third overall in the same draft that saw Curry go 7th.
Yep, one pick after Hasheem Thabeet :)

That 2009 draft was an odd one. Blake Griffin #1 Thabeet #2, Harden 3, tyreke evans 4. Minnesota and that weird Rubio at 5 Johhny Flynn at 6 mess. Curry #7. Derozan at 9 Jrue at 17 and Teague at 19 were really the only other guys to make All star team.

Spurs drafted Jack McClinton way down at 51 who I thought could have did something. shot 45% from 3 in college, but at only 6 feet tall and this 3 point barrage not happening yet he could not find the court. Really thought that was a steal at the time.
 

hollywood9826

Hall of Fame
LaVar Ball: Lonzo trade is Lakers' worst move and they are now completely crashed, will never win a championship.
Lol this guy never disappoints!
Dude is something else, teaches his kid the worst looking shot in the NBA and is then surprised when he cant get it off against athletically superior players. The middle son is terrible yet thinks if all three were on a team its title conteners.

But he keep his and his families names out there.
 

T1000

Legend
You still think Kawhi is leaving with a property in Toronto?
I think winning in Toronto helped their case but I’d still put the Clippers as the favorite. Hed have a chance to be the first FMVP for three teams and also be the first (I believe) to win a franchise’s first championship with two different franchises. He’s also from LA which will help them. For the record I think those two teams are the only ones with a chance to sign him.

How can you say there is little value after Morant? RJ is good, c'mon man. He could become a non-flopping version of Harden.

I think Ingram and Ball could develop on a team without major pressure on them. Ball was not going to improve his shot on a win-now team. But he's also injury prone so there's that. Ingram is talented but he's missing the drive to become a star. Some of the later picks were ability to swap... which if the Lakers fizzle out after 2-3 years could come back to haunt them. I also didn't want AD on the Knicks, especially if it was gonna cost them everything (which the Knicks don't have much of anyway lol). And he hasn't exactly proven anything as the 1st option.
@Federer and Del Potro said pretty much what I was gonna say. Only thing I disagree on is I think morant is a sure thing but that’s irrelevant to RJ. I think his ceiling is Rudy gay/demar derozan which is a nice player but not someone I’m thrilled with getting at #3 after tanking for 5 years.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Yep, one pick after Hasheem Thabeet :)

That 2009 draft was an odd one. Blake Griffin #1 Thabeet #2, Harden 3, tyreke evans 4. Minnesota and that weird Rubio at 5 Johhny Flynn at 6 mess. Curry #7. Derozan at 9 Jrue at 17 and Teague at 19 were really the only other guys to make All star team.

Spurs drafted Jack McClinton way down at 51 who I thought could have did something. shot 45% from 3 in college, but at only 6 feet tall and this 3 point barrage not happening yet he could not find the court. Really thought that was a steal at the time.
Evans won ROY with a 20/5/5 year but not much after that.
 
I think winning in Toronto helped their case but I’d still put the Clippers as the favorite. Hed have a chance to be the first FMVP for three teams and also be the first (I believe) to win a franchise’s first championship with two different franchises. He’s also from LA which will help them. For the record I think those two teams are the only ones with a chance to sign him.



@Federer and Del Potro said pretty much what I was gonna say. Only thing I disagree on is I think morant is a sure thing but that’s irrelevant to RJ. I think his ceiling is Rudy gay/demar derozan which is a nice player but not someone I’m thrilled with getting at #3 after tanking for 5 years.
Yeah my only reservations about Morant is not seeing him enough.

I watched pretty much all of Dukes games and I’d be lying if I said Reddish and Barrett don’t concern me. Knicks definitely wanted Zion.

Zion made RJ and Reddish get hyped to oblivion. Not that there isn’t talent there, just that I see a lot of areas that need significant improvement for NBA ball.
 
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Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
From a strictly basketball/competition standpoint I don't see why Kawhi would go to the Clippers now that the Lakers got AD. I really don't. Why would you go there and face that head on in the Western Conference? I'm sure Kawhi is a competitive guy who's not really "afraid" of the Lakers, but it's basically common sense to stay in the Eastern Conference now. And again, that's from a strictly basketball standpoint. I know it's warmer in LA and that's where he's from. He could go to the Lakers and make another super team, but I actually don't think Kawhi is very interested in that tbh. Unless he's a fantastic actor I don't think he's interested.

I've watched his interviews for a while now, and he just doesn't seen to care that much about getting Finals MVP and individual accolades like that. The Raptors are in a position where only they can offer him a max contract if I'm not mistaken, and they'll probably only get better. The Bucks look like their only serious competition to getting back to at least the Finals. Yes they went 7 with Philly, but I'm not as scared of Embiid and Simmons as I am of Giannis improving, and the competition in the West overall is probably tougher even with the Warriors injuries anyway.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
From a strictly basketball/competition standpoint I don't see why Kawhi would go to the Clippers now that the Lakers got AD. I really don't. Why would you go there and face that head on in the Western Conference? I'm sure Kawhi is a competitive guy who's not really "afraid" of the Lakers, but it's basically common sense to stay in the Eastern Conference now. And again, that's from a strictly basketball standpoint. I know it's warmer in LA and that's where he's from. He could go to the Lakers and make another super team, but I actually don't think Kawhi is very interested in that tbh. Unless he's a fantastic actor I don't think he's interested.

I've watched his interviews for a while now, and he just doesn't seen to care that much about getting Finals MVP and individual accolades like that. The Raptors are in a position where only they can offer him a max contract if I'm not mistaken, and they'll probably only get better. The Bucks look like their only serious competition to getting back to at least the Finals. Yes they went 7 with Philly, but I'm not as scared of Embiid and Simmons as I am of Giannis improving, and the competition in the West overall is probably tougher even with the Warriors injuries anyway.
If Ujiri leaves and you’re at your career peak, would you prefer to play for an unknown quantity franchise builder or the proven West/Frank hierarchy???
 
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