NBA 2019-20: Fresh Champs, Fresh Faces, Fresh Places!

hollywood9826

Hall of Fame
Somehow GS ends up with Wiggins and first round pick for a guy that was an FA and not going to come back (KD). Add in the high pick they get this year and all the other picks they got from trading half the team and these guys might be ready next year.

Rockets are going all-in on small ball space and ISO.

Clippers getting Morris was big, he helps them and isnt on the Lakers.
 

hollywood9826

Hall of Fame
And are we sure Igudola is still good? Winslow is hurt all the time so maybe I get it, but don't he and Iggy sorta play the same role? Iggy contract does have team option so they can decline that and have money for 2021. But IMO the Heat deals don't help or them in anyway.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Smallball 2.0 not so good on a back-to-back with Houston destroyed by host Phoenix by 36. Oubre and Booker combined for 72/18 and the Suns out rebounded the Rockets by 51 to 29. Houston treys didn’t fall (11/48).

PTB was denied a chance to win on a grievous non-call on a Gobert goaltending in Utah that would have tied the game with seconds left.

Big playoff implications in those games as Memphis lost and did not increase their lead of 2.5 games. Phoenix moves to within 5 back.

Toronto won their 13th in a row, defeating host Indiana by 9 despite losing Lowry to a whiplash injury when he collided with Ibaka while falling to the floor on a drive. He’s not expected to play back at home tonight when the Raptors host the Nets.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Interesting changes at the top of 538's NBA Odds Prediction grid:

Current ELO: Raptors have moved up to #2, trailing only the Bucks, with both those teams way ahead of everyone else.

Full-Strength ELO based on RAPTOR advanced stat player ratings: 5 teams clustered way ahead of everyone else at the top (Clippers, Lakers, Sixers, Rockets, Bucks) in that order.

Odds to Win Title (based on player ratings): Same 5 teams clustered at the top, but in different order:
21% - Lakers
20% - Bucks
18% - Clippers
16% - 76ers
12% - Rockets

5% - Celtics
3% Raptors
3% - Nuggets

Anything can still happen!

Most interesting to me is that the model still spits out the 76ers as the most talented team in the East, despite the Buck's historic dominance and the Sixers' struggles on the road.

The same model said that the Lakers' roster was terrible at the start of the year, so regular season stats obviously factor in.
 
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travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Count me as someone who loves the Rockets’ move to add Covington. They are unleashing the fury of Westbrook’s kamikaze driving to the hoop without any bigs to clog the lane, and now they can defend the perimeter as well as anyone.

Neither the Clippers nor Lakers want to see them in the second round.
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
Interesting changes at the top of 538's NBA Odds Prediction grid:

Current ELO: Raptors have moved up to #2, trailing only the Bucks, with both those teams way ahead of everyone else.

Full-Strength ELO based on RAPTOR advanced stat player ratings: 5 teams clustered way ahead of everyone else at the top (Clippers, Lakers, Sixers, Rockets, Bucks) in that order.

Odds to Win Title (based on player ratings): Same 5 teams clustered at the top, but in different order:
21% - Lakers
20% - Bucks
18% - Clippers
16% - 76ers
12% - Rockets

5% - Celtics
3% Raptors
3% - Nuggets

Anything can still happen!

Most interesting to me is that the model still spits out the 76ers as the most talented team in the East, despite the Buck's historic dominance and the Sixers' struggles on the road.

The same model said that the Lakers' roster was terrible at the start of the year, so regular season stats obviously factor in.
Based on the performances so far, Sixers not looking like a team that can beat two of Heat, Raptors, Celtics, Bucks back to back. They will be missing the guy who's playing for the Heat now.

Bucks will not be giving away the East this time, they are just too dominant. I value Boston and Toronto equal, one for the talent and one for the team play. Raps could be the better team come playoff time though because of the experience and confidence. Heat will not be better after the trades.

In the west, the finals will be played in LA. But the victory will belong to the Clips. Kawhi and PG will be too much for the aging Bron.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Based on the performances so far, Sixers not looking like a team that can beat two of Heat, Raptors, Celtics, Bucks back to back. They will be missing the guy who's playing for the Heat now.

Bucks will not be giving away the East this time, they are just too dominant. I value Boston and Toronto equal, one for the talent and one for the team play. Raps could be the better team come playoff time though because of the experience and confidence. Heat will not be better after the trades.

In the west, the finals will be played in LA. But the victory will belong to the Clips. Kawhi and PG will be too much for the aging Bron.
Clipped depth is amazing. May get to the Finals without Kawhi. With Him v The Raptors, only Vince could script this series
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Just noticed that the gap in conference strength-of-schedule between East and West is bigger than ever.

8 of the 9 worst teams in the NBA (based on SRS) are in the Eastern conference (those 8 bottom feeders comprise more than half the conference!). And the East is a combined 32 games under .500.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Tatum a Superstar. Turning into the best player on the Celtics and he's only 21. When he was at Duke I said he'd be the next Paul Pierce. He might end up being better :oops:
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I remember all the speculation after the Westbrook-for-Paul trade as to where CP3 would wind up. I thought he would fit in OKC and it’s all happening still, even after the trade deadline. Tonight they beat a balling NOP team with Zion playing great, 123-118. They are a solid team with a great mixture of veterans (Adams, Paul, Gallinari and Schröder) and one youngster (SGA). At the break they are firmly in 7th in the loaded WC and could go as high as #5 with both Houston and Dallas in reach.

Add to that core next year and beyond with all the draft picks they gathered and Presti will have a dynamic squad for the entire decade.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Tatum a Superstar. Turning into the best player on the Celtics and he's only 21. When he was at Duke I said he'd be the next Paul Pierce. He might end up being better :oops:
He's already one of the 10 best players in the the NBA right now, something Pierce never was. Heck, you can make a case that he's top 5. He's #5 in Real Plus Minus, which is usually pretty revealing in telling who the best 2-way players are.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
He's already one of the 10 best players in the the NBA right now, something Pierce never was. Heck, you can make a case that he's top 5. He's #5 in Real Plus Minus, which is usually pretty revealing in telling who the best 2-way players are.
Well there's a lot more than being one of the 10 best players- playoff performances, championships, etc play a role as well. It's very early days but his trajectory is promising. Will take a fair few accomplishments to have the better career than Pierce by the time it's all said and done. But the potential is there.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Well there's a lot more than being one of the 10 best players- playoff performances, championships, etc play a role as well. It's very early days but his trajectory is promising. Will take a fair few accomplishments to have the better career than Pierce by the time it's all said and done. But the potential is there.
Obviously Pierce is more accomplished, but I'd take this version of Tatum over peak Pierce if I was selecting my team. Pierce was a talented offensive player and go-to clutch scorer, but Tatum has the prototypical athletic NBA body that can give you underrated value on both ends.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Obviously Pierce is more accomplished, but I'd take this version of Tatum over peak Pierce if I was selecting my team. Pierce was a talented offensive player and go-to clutch scorer, but Tatum has the prototypical athletic NBA body that can give you underrated value on both ends.
Not sure I'd go that far yet as a lifelong Celtics fan myself. Peak Pierce was a clutch machine, above average defender (Which he oft did not get enough credit for), and I believe is #1 in Celtics history in 3 pointers, ft's, steals etc. 2nd highest point scorer in franchise history. There was a time he could legitimately hold his own with Kobe and Lebron on both ends of the floor. I think you're undervaluing Pierce a bit. His game wasn't pretty but it was damn effective.

And I say that as someone that from day 1 wanted Tatum over Fultz, I'm sure I've even posted about it here. I am very high on Jayson Tatum. Higher than a lot of the draft prognosticators were. It wasn't that long ago redditors were arguing Kyle Kuzma was better lol. So this outburst by Tatum was not predicted by many.
 

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Go watch Pierce against Kobe in the 2008 finals. Can't think of a better example of the level Pierce was capable than that.

Even in the twilight of his career, he was brilliant against the juggernaut 2012 Heat. Almost willed them all the way to the finals. A team the Thunder ended up getting crushed by.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
You guys are disgusting a pair of Tier 3 Celtics ever:

Tier 1: Bill Russell

Tier 1.5: Larry Bird

Tier 2: John Havlicek and Bob Cousy

Tier 3: McHale, Cowans, Pierce, the late Great Reggie Lewis, Parish, Jones, White and maybe in a few years Tatum,

Stop with the recency bias (another nominee if he had lived past draft week!).
 
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Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
You guys are disgusting a pair of Tier 3 Celtics ever:

Tier 1: Bill Russell

Tier 1.5: Larry Bird

Tier 2: John Havlicek and Bob Cousy

Tier 3: McHale, Cowan’s, Pierce, the late Great Reggie Lewis, Parish, Jones, White and maybe in a few years Tatum,

Stop with the recency bias (another nominee if he had lived past draft week!).
Not sure how old Travler is but those guys are wellll before my time. I can only compare the guys I actually watched. Would have loved to be around for the Celtics dominance back in the day. Certainly wasn't arguing those stats make Pierce the best Celtic ever or anything, just that it's safe to say Tatum has big shoes to fill. At the time I made the Pierce comparisons, Tatum was seen as a pretty modest prospect. As mentioned before not many people had prognosticated him to being anywhere near this good, especially not this fast.

I try not to be like the GPPDers who speak with authority on 2006 Federer when they weren't even born yet at that time. I've watched old footage of Russell and Bird of course but that is a poor substitute for being lucky enough to see them while it happened.

It's so easy to think everything new is automatically better. Happened as soon as Brett Favre got replaced, now Mahomes is talked about like Rodgers used to get talked about. Sports fans are super quick to appoint new guys the best lol.
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
Tatum is #47 in PER list even though he's playing in a successful team. He will never be a Top 10 player IMHO. Also he is not good with ball handling. That is a big minus.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
You guys are disgusting a pair of Tier 3 Celtics ever:

Tier 1: Bill Russell

Tier 1.5: Larry Bird

Tier 2: John Havlicek and Bob Cousy

Tier 3: McHale, Cowans, Pierce, the late Great Reggie Lewis, Parish, Jones, White and maybe in a few years Tatum,

Stop with the recency bias (another nominee if he had lived past draft week!).
No love for Tiny?
 

FRV2

Hall of Fame
@FRV2 remember how defeatist you were about Boston after Kyrie left :-D . I told you
You got me. I was mostly joking, but did not think we would be contenders. The team is nasty now. I guess Marcus Smart is really stepping up, this is like the second time I randomly checked the score and saw he has like 30 points. Everyone’s stepping up really. I kind of stopped following basketball. Should start watching again.

On another note, looks like Zion is the real deal and then some. Hope he stays healthy and has a great career.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
No one watched the All-Star Game?

It was brilliant!
If TNT's intro explanation of the new format was confusing to this NBA fanatic (well, kinda - I'm mostly boycotting this season for their shameful refusal to stand up for Morey from the get-go) you've got a messaging problem.

But yes, that 4th Q was as intense and exciting as ATGs come. The 1st 3 Qs were still pointless filler and they should keep tweaking the format to make it less so, but apart from that you'd be awfully nitpicky not to call it an unqualified success.

You can hear from the man himself here:

 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
The Cadavers face a second consecutive season with a mid season coaching change after Sluggo Beilein abruptly quits. Good riddens!
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Tough enough watching the Cavs. Pistons going to be worse. Exile them to Escanaba......................................................and who's next? Tomorrow? The Bucks!
 
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