NCAA Quarterfinals by Conference

mikej

Hall of Fame
Men:
SEC - 3 (UF, Tennessee, UK)
Big12 - 2 (TCU, Baylor)
Big10 - 2 (OSU, Michigan)
ACC - 1 (UVA)

Women:
ACC - 4 (UNC, Duke, UVA, NCSU)
Big12 - 3 (Oklahome, Texas)
SEC - 1 (TAMU)
WCC - 1 (Pepperdine)

Totals:
ACC - 5
Big12 - 4
SEC - 4
Big10 - 2
WCC - 1

which leads me to ask the obvious questions:
when did the Pac12 drop outside the top 5 conferences in D1 tennis?
should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision
should the Pac12 drop from D1 in tennis, and join a division where they can be more competitive?
 
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" should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision

The hyperbole made me laugh. I guess if your main goal in life is to win a team championship, then there wouldn't be much reason to go right now. But, I think USC or Stanford could "regenerate" and become contenders again on the men's side, and Stanford and maybe a few other schools on the women's side.

Beyond that - a player would go to a Pac-12 school because there's still very good programs, even if not title-contending, and if there's a school that you want to go to anyway, or you just like the West Coast and Western US generally as a place to live, then why wouldn't you go.

Of course the geography of tennis power has shifted from earlier eras. But, that's happened in a lot of sports. I don't think it makes the PAC-12 an awful choice for a student-athlete, just that there's obviously lots of other choices these days.
 
No SEC women's schools kind of stands out. Maybe not as historically strong as the SEC men - as an overall conference, but usually at least one team in the QFs, no?
 
No SEC women's schools kind of stands out. Maybe not as historically strong as the SEC men - as an overall conference, but usually at least one team in the QFs, no?

yeah, edited, TAMU representing them this year

a down year for UGA and a down handful of years from UF (though I think UF is trending back up)
 
Men:
SEC - 3 (UF, Tennessee, UK)
Big12 - 2 (TCU, Baylor)
Big10 - 2 (OSU, Michigan)
ACC - 1 (UVA)

Women:
ACC - 4 (UNC, Duke, UVA, NCSU)
Big12 - 3 (Oklahome, Texas)
SEC - 1 (TAMU)
WCC - 1 (Pepperdine)

Totals:
ACC - 5
Big12 - 4
SEC - 4
Big10 - 2
WCC - 1

which leads me to ask the obvious questions:
when did the Pac12 drop outside the top 5 conferences in D1 tennis?
should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision
should the Pac12 drop from D1 in tennis, and join a division where they can be more competitive?
pac 12 has much tougher academic standards than those east coast teams do. you actually have to be a scholar, not just tennis player that can hit the ball
 
when did the Pac12 drop outside the top 5 conferences in D1 tennis?
should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision
should the Pac12 drop from D1 in tennis, and join a division where they can be more competitive?
While the PAC definitely underperformed this year and UCLA for the 1st time ever did not make NCAAs, PAC12 schools are still ranked better than most of Big10 schools for tennis. The worst ranked Pac 12 school is 58 with 5 conference schools in top 40. While Big10 had Mich and OSU in top8 and Northwestern at 30, the rest of the big 10 is ranked from 50+ with 4 schools outside the top 75. PAC12 is still better than the best MM conferences (AAC, West Coast, Conf USA) or the Ivy's.

I still think the Big10 and PAC12 are recovering from less competition than the other P5 conferences during the pandemic years. ITF juniors will be drawn to California schools as many ITF Futures and prize $ events are hosted there in fall, summer or off season. Florida and Cal schools should be top choices for those reasons and yearround outdoor play. Location, opportunity are there-maybe there needs to be coaching changes... I dont really follow PAC12 but I think Big10 is more at risk of losing recruits if Illinois doesnt get its act together. OSU and MIch have to play well at Indoors and at non conference matches as they cant earn many ranking points from in conference wins.
 
While the PAC definitely underperformed this year and UCLA for the 1st time ever did not make NCAAs, PAC12 schools are still ranked better than most of Big10 schools for tennis. The worst ranked Pac 12 school is 58 with 5 conference schools in top 40. While Big10 had Mich and OSU in top8 and Northwestern at 30, the rest of the big 10 is ranked from 50+ with 4 schools outside the top 75. PAC12 is still better than the best MM conferences (AAC, West Coast, Conf USA) or the Ivy's.

I still think the Big10 and PAC12 are recovering from less competition than the other P5 conferences during the pandemic years. ITF juniors will be drawn to California schools as many ITF Futures and prize $ events are hosted there in fall, summer or off season. Florida and Cal schools should be top choices for those reasons and yearround outdoor play. Location, opportunity are there-maybe there needs to be coaching changes... I dont really follow PAC12 but I think Big10 is more at risk of losing recruits if Illinois doesnt get its act together. OSU and MIch have to play well at Indoors and at non conference matches as they cant earn many ranking points from in conference wins.

wow that was way more of a response than my post deserved :)
 
Has one metro area ever had three teams in the final eight? Two has certainly been done before - USC/UCLA; Stanford/Cal. And three from the same state has probably been done multiple times, but not the same metro area. That is, if the Research Triangle of Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill can be considered a metro area.
 
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" should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision

The hyperbole made me laugh. I guess if your main goal in life is to win a team championship, then there wouldn't be much reason to go right now. But, I think USC or Stanford could "regenerate" and become contenders again on the men's side, and Stanford and maybe a few other schools on the women's side.

Beyond that - a player would go to a Pac-12 school because there's still very good programs, even if not title-contending, and if there's a school that you want to go to anyway, or you just like the West Coast and Western US generally as a place to live, then why wouldn't you go.

Of course the geography of tennis power has shifted from earlier eras. But, that's happened in a lot of sports. I don't think it makes the PAC-12 an awful choice for a student-athlete, just that there's obviously lots of other choices these days.
Probably need to leave USTA out of this conversation entirely. Pac-12 has too many US players on the rosters. On the Men's side at least - US players aren't the way to go. Tennessee and TCU have 0. UF being the outlier. Pac-12 needs to get some of those 26 year olds on the team - Baylor style
 
Probably need to leave USTA out of this conversation entirely. Pac-12 has too many US players on the rosters. On the Men's side at least - US players aren't the way to go. Tennessee and TCU have 0. UF being the outlier. Pac-12 needs to get some of those 26 year olds on the team - Baylor style
Stanford's USTA players were as highly ranked as UF's.

But I agree, let Stanford ruin foreign players rather than USTA players from now on.
 
Probably need to leave USTA out of this conversation entirely. Pac-12 has too many US players on the rosters. On the Men's side at least - US players aren't the way to go. Tennessee and TCU have 0. UF being the outlier. Pac-12 needs to get some of those 26 year olds on the team - Baylor style
I hope they don’t even though I get what you’re saying. Where do our American kids go if all these schools adopt the Baylor or Tennessee template?
 
I hope they don’t even though I get what you’re saying. Where do our American kids go if all these schools adopt the Baylor or Tennessee template?
There may be some spots at 5 or 6 for some 5 star US walk ons after the scholarship $ run out. The blue chip US players may get some $$. Tenn did have a US player at 6 for '21. Baylor gets US grad transfers or at least played them in lineup for '21.
 
Probably need to leave USTA out of this conversation entirely. Pac-12 has too many US players on the rosters. On the Men's side at least - US players aren't the way to go. Tennessee and TCU have 0. UF being the outlier. Pac-12 needs to get some of those 26 year olds on the team - Baylor style
USC had Israeli Cukierman for 4 years. He was 25 years and 10 months when he finished at USC. It was interesting how many Future tourneys he was able to play while part of the Israeli army...
 
I hope they don’t even though I get what you’re saying. Where do our American kids go if all these schools adopt the Baylor or Tennessee template?

There are still spots for elite and good American players. It's just hard to win at a high level if you focus exclusively on Americans unless you can consistently get the very best Americans, like Florida can or Virginia used to. Teams go for foreign players because they are banking on the best college level players from France or Spain/Germany etc are better than the 2nd or 3rd tier American players.
 
Crawford, Riffice, Shelton etc are hardly better than the Americans some other programs have gotten in the last handful of years

it’s just at UF they actually get better every month / year, an art that seems lost on some schools / coaches
 
should any top 100 USTA or ITF juniors still go to this conference, which is essentially equivalent to the MEAC or D3 tennis nowadays? it doesn't seem like that would be a wise decision
should the Pac12 drop from D1 in tennis, and join a division where they can be more competitive?

How many UCLA players are on the tour right now ? I honestly don't know the answer to this but off the top of my head I'm thinking Mackie, Cressey, Giron and Zhu for starters.
 
Crawford, Riffice, Shelton etc are hardly better than the Americans some other programs have gotten in the last handful of years

it’s just at UF they actually get better every month / year, an art that seems lost on some schools / coaches
I think Shelton definitely has stepped it up. He was a very good junior but didn’t win any singles gold balls at the USTA national events. But he’s a phenom now and could fast track into the upper tiers of the pro circuit. In fact there’s little value in him playing college tennis beyond this year
 
I hope they don’t even though I get what you’re saying. Where do our American kids go if all these schools adopt the Baylor or Tennessee template?
US players arent doomed if they dont play in the lineup of a top 8 team. They can play lower P5 (George Harwell was a 4 star in juniors who plays 1 for Vandy-his UTR shot up in college), they can play MMs, or they can play D3 (one of son's friends who could have played D1 chose D3, was All American for D3 his freshman year, played on a National championship team, and now is in med school). Some US players are recruited for P5s, are offered low or no $, and choose to play MM instead. MM is not a bad route if team schedules vs some P5s and plays some tough fall invites-win your conference, you go to NCAAs. I know one player who played 3 for a MM-won his 1st ATP point in the 2nd Future he played while some kids who trained at USTA Nationals and played jr grand slams took up to 15 Futures to win an ATP point. Now the top P5s are the best choice if a player at 17 thinks he wants to go pro post college, but a player can still win in Future Qualis or prize $ events if they play for a 30-50+ ranked P5 team or a MM. A few years back my son, a MM player. was on court in the final round of Future Qualis sandwiched between two top SEC players/commits both who had played in jr grand slams and boarded at USTA national campus in FL; my son played public high school tennis as well as USTA-no events outside US. All 3 had won two Quali matches in an event filled with current or former college players, and all 3 lost in the final round of Qualis: the SEC freshman 2,2 to the 3rd seed- an ACC/SEC grad formerly ranked ITA #12-his opponent made the MD finals, the SEC commit 3,3 to an unseeded PAC12 grad from a top 10 team, and my son who was a 4 star when recruited lost 6-7 in 3rd to the 7th seed- then a current player on a top 10 Big12 team. The younger guys all lost to older guys with ITA rankings tho the SEC freshman already had an ITA ranking himself. However, college play had narrowed the gap that had existed in the juniors. Remember UTR and USTA/ITF rankings represent a mix of talent and opportunity. There are a lot of US players who mainly played in section, played few or no nationals who take off in college once they have regular coaching and competition. I know of a 3 star walk on who won 29 matches (20 dual)-tied his school record- his freshman year but only played in state and regional events in high school; that guy had an athletic scholarship to go along with his merit scholarship his soph year.

US players choose to play at team where you can afford to play (playing 5 or 6 at an OOS public univ may not fit the budget) and have competitive matches. If you dont go P5, find the competitive opportunities during the summer and winter breaks. The thousands you save not playing P5 when you get a good athletic/merit package elsewhere will mean you can afford to travel to summer events (until you are an upperclassmen and need to work internships-work 10 weeks and squeeze some in at the end). Many US players have to choose between P5, D1MM, and D3, and the right answer is individual to the player and family. I have seen 4/5 stars sign with top 25 teams-some of the 5s settle in at 5 or 6, most struggle to make the lineup, and many transfer. Worth a gamble if the school is in state. Even blue chips outside the top 10 (#11-25) might not make the lineup their freshman year. Play outside the top 30, even the top 75, work hard, improve, and you can have a great college experience and maybe have some upset wins, maybe even earn an ITA ranking. There are around 240 D1 teams, 29(?) conferences, 64 teams in the NCAAs. There are 12 fall regionals with about 20 teams each with a mix of p5 and MM players. With draws of 128 or 64 (usually quali with another 64), MM players get in and some win vs P5 opponents. Want to know you will get to play, want a more affordable experience, and a more balanced life? Consider all the teams 30-125 that also have decent programs in your major. While ITA only ranks top 75, collegetennisranks.com ranks all the teams using ITA algorithm.
 
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There are still spots for elite and good American players. It's just hard to win at a high level if you focus exclusively on Americans unless you can consistently get the very best Americans, like Florida can or Virginia used to. Teams go for foreign players because they are banking on the best college level players from France or Spain/Germany etc are better than the 2nd or 3rd tier American players.
When is Clemson going to go out and get a good #1 US player and turn the team around. Look at what Auburn did. They got American Tyler Stice at 1, upset SC in SEC tourney, and reached their best ranking in years. The coaches of teams like Alabama and Clemson need to sell the vision-do you want to play 5 or 6 for a top SEC team or do you want to develop into a 1 by your soph year (does require a coach that can develop talent). If Louisville can improve a lot in a year, why cant Clemson? Goffi usually has too many players-lot of US players have transferred out over the years. Clemson needs to do a better sales job with the tennis talent in GA and SC plus Smith Stearns in HHI has a lot of internationals who play ITFs boarding there.
 
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