Need advice for playing against heavy topspin

[TennisMan70]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

 

[Nostradamus]

take it on the rise all the time

 

[tennis tom]

How old is he? What is his NTRP rating?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

Does he have a Western FH grip? If so, test how well he handles lower shots, skidding slices, etc. Even if he doesn't have an extreme grip, you should still test his ability to deal with low balls. If you think you can't rally with him TS to TS, you need to figure out another way.

If you can't step in on the return, move back far enough so you can take it on the decline and position yourself better for the kick.

 

[CosmosMpower]

take it on the rise all the time

or back up and let it drop back into your strike zone. Try some low skidding slices, guys with extreme western grips usually don’t like that.

 

[Injured Again]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

Number one question is what do you do well, and can you do those things in response to this player's shots? If the answer to the second part is "no", then you will almost assuredly lose unless you can find some way in what you do well, that prevents your opponent from from playing his normal way.

It's all well and good to hear what may work, but if you can't do those things well and try to do them, you will lose anyway, probably in a flurry of errors.

So again, what is it that you do well, and can you do those things in response to his serve and topspin groundstrokes?

 

[Karma Tennis]

Focus on matching your strengths to their weaknesses.

Have a Plan B ane Plan C if your Plan A doesn't end up being effective.

Try and keep the points as short as possible!

 

[FIRETennis]

I'm playing a similar style like your opponent.

What "works" against the kicks is: stand way in to return and slice sharp return on the rise, vary aim between the feet of the server short or baseline deep.
if your opponent does not come to the net you can also "return like Nadal" from way back and wait for the ball to come down and rip if full power and spin back deep mid-court.
In terms of groundstrokes, disrupting rhythm and short low slices can be very annoying.
If none of those work, he might just be a better player and just try to enjoy and game.

 

[stapletonj]

If your opponent has any volley skills at all, the "returning from the fence" strategy will not work unless you have Nadal like footspeed. And even if you did, the endurance to keep that up is something 99% of us just don't have. If you feel you must, you probably should mostly hit deep lob returns - give yourself time to get back up to a normal playing position.

It is a difficult thing to practice, but moving in and catching the kick serve early with a more blocked return is probably your best bet.
DONT OVERSWING!

 

[2nd-srv-ace]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

Get yourself a SlingerBag machine and practice!! you will learn how to handle the top-spin in no time!!

 

[Clive Walker]

I’d suggest that you give your oppo what he doesn’t want… basically this means slice, low. No one particularly likes getting the ball up and down with heavy topspin from ankle height.

 

[roadto50]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

Depending on your level and his/her level, you might just be outmatched.

Recommending to hit on the rise or slide on the rise...while correct...is not something most amateur players like us can do consistently.

 

[Karma Tennis]

Exactly, there is absolutely no point hitting on the rise or hitting slice shots if they are not your strenght. It will simply frustrate you.

Try and match your strengths to your opponent's weaknesses. Focus on playing your best game. If it becomes clear that isn't working then move to your Plan B, or Plan C.

IIRC, there was a story in a coaching book - can't recall if it was Braeden or Gilbert. Two girls were playing a Final. The first girl was dominating, she won the first set quickly and was ahead at least one break of serve in the second cruising towards an easy victory. The second girl moved to her Plan B which was to simply hit a moon ball. She won a couple of points and then heard her opponent yell out that she hated "moonballers". You can figure out the rest.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

My worst matchup would be a lefty hitting heavy TS FHs to my BH.

 

[Clive Walker]

I suppose it’s that mix of playing your own game and providing the ball your opponent doesn’t want to hit.

 

[jz000]

Improve your strokes too.
No fast track to success on the court.

If we're even level, then I'd try to smash it flat on the rise when possible.
But if he's a D1 player, no chance. Gotta spin it back.

 

[Matthew ATX]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

Does not compute. If you step in on it, you catch it before it jumps.

 

[eah123]

On the kick serves, occasionally try to take it on the rise. But most of the time, stay back, take the ball on the way down, and focus on returning deep instead of hard. In rallies, return the ball flat or with sidespin, again focus on hitting deep. Look for short balls. You can hit these flat and hard for a winner on the way down after the bounce, occasionally take them as a swing volley hit hard, or slice volley hit deep or angled off the court.

 

[Slicehand]

Dont let him play from baseline, dirty the game, short points, and variety on depth and spins

 

[a10best]

Use low bh slices to the FH and attack the kick serve. I was getting killed by a guy with a heavy 2nd serve kick at first, then got accustomed to it and took it on the rise. Staying back didn't work well for me with a 1HB (at 6' 2") because it would kick above my head.

 

[gqnelly]

I agree. Shorten your return stroke and take it early. I like backhand slices to the middle of the court to make them miss. They try to do too much from a neutral position after a few shots...

 

[ichaseballs]

take it on the rise

or back up and let it drop back into your strike zone.

+1

 

[Rosstour]

One thing OP didn't mention is which side this heavy kick serve goes to. Most players have one preferred side for their big weapon. So cheat to the other side and try to make him hit there.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I think taking kick serves early only works if the kick is reasonably consistent. If it bounces at different angles, taking it early will be a challenge unless you've got cat like reflexes to adjust. I typically have more success against really good kickers by taking them deeper so I can adjust to the bounce and take a more aggressive swing.

I also find standing back a bit more against heavy topspin groundstrokes works better for me. The problem happens if they can routinely put the heavy topspin within 2 feet of the baseline. If so then I'm screwed as that's a really good player. My only hope to get points here and there is to throw junk at him to get him out of rhythm. Slices, droppers, moon balls, etc to explore for a weakness and not let him play to his strengths.

My general rules for all opponents are:
A) Dance with the one that brought you is Plan A. Hit my best shots and see if the opponent can handle it. Don't leave my wheelhouse if that is working.
B) Plan B is for when they have a weapon I can't overcome. Then I stay away from it like dancing around a slugger. Throw slices and short balls mixed in with bouncy topspin to try to stay out of their wheel house.
C) Plan C is for when they are merely playing defensively and waiting on my errors. Then I move to getting safely into the rally, attacking corners a little more aggressively and get into the net when I get the ball to their weakest wing on the run.
D) Plan D is when Plan A-C fail and then I just go for it, get the match over and head to the bar.

 

[Cashman]

Backing up is the easiest way to play topspin

A lot of rec players have an aversion to playing too far behind the baseline, which is weird

I think it is maybe because they don’t have faith in their own shots being consistently deep enough to protect them from droppers and angles

 

[Dartagnan64]

Backing up is the easiest way to play topspin

A lot of rec players have an aversion to playing too far behind the baseline, which is weird

I think it is maybe because they don’t have faith in their own shots being consistently deep enough to protect them from droppers and angles

I'm definitely someone that hugs the baseline in rallies. And it's usually to protect myself from droppers and angles. Just haven't quite got the same wheels I had 30 years ago. I'm actually pretty adept at keeping balls deep from that position and it gives me an advantage on getting to short balls in plenty of time to put them away.

But when someone comes in with a good deep rally ball, I will take a step back and be a bit more defensive. I just don't like it because I don't feel as in control of the point. But sometimes you have to play defence.

 

[Injured Again]

Backing up is the easiest way to play topspin

A lot of rec players have an aversion to playing too far behind the baseline, which is weird

I think it is maybe because they don’t have faith in their own shots being consistently deep enough to protect them from droppers and angles

It seems that if a player has to learn how to back up to play topspin, they should also spend the time to learn how to play it on the rise when hugging the baseline. That's a skill that will be necessary if the player ever wants to be successful in doubles, because eventually they will run into players who hit heavy topspin there also. Returning those shots from 10 feet behind the baseline won't work as the skill level goes up.

 

[Cashman]

It seems that if a player has to learn how to back up to play topspin, they should also spend the time to learn how to play it on the rise when hugging the baseline. That's a skill that will be necessary if the player ever wants to be successful in doubles, because eventually they will run into players who hit heavy topspin there also. Returning those shots from 10 feet behind the baseline won't work as the skill level goes up.

‘Learn how to hit the ball on the rise’ is one of the most useless bits of advice people give

Nobody learns how to hit the ball on the rise. They learn how to hit a tennis ball, and the better they get at it, the earlier they can take it

Backing up is just about being aware of when giving yourself more time and space will let you hit a better shot

 

[Ferris]

I'm really late to the party for the OP but maybe my $0.02 helps some one else.

I'm the heavy topspin, heavy kick serve player so I can tell you what frustrates me. First serve is usually flat or slice and heavy kick on the second usually. I have a better than average overall serve and have a few people say that my kick serve is the most challenging shot I have for them to deal with. If you haven't seen a heavy topspin groundstroke and/or good kick serve they both are things that just need to be seen and practiced against. They aren't necessarily more effective than other types of shots but they are tough to deal with when you've never seen them.

Over the pandemic the section I am in relaxed rules on the differential of rankings that a team could play with. I think normally if you are in say an 8.0 league the differential can only by 1.0 rating - meaning a 3.5 could play with a 4.5 but not a 3 and a 5, hope that makes sense. Anyways, like a lot of other things the pandemic also messed up leagues and there was a time where basically if you showed up with a team you played. I wound up playing doubles with some folks who had not seen much or any kick serves and they struggled with it.

I do need a bit more time on my groundstrokes so taking time away from me and messing with my rhythm and timing is frustrating for me. Flat and even backspinny groundstrokes can get me really off. Those skiddy shots are much harder for me to time and hit crisply. I'm a little older, 50 and see a lot more flat and cut type shots which I am adjusting to.

I strongly prefer heavy topspin back to me on groundstrokes. The ball bites the ground and kicks up and almost pauses so I can time that really well. Moonball shots can be kryptonite for me (and a lot of people). Well, deep moonballs...shorter moonballs aren't an isue cause I can take those on the rise easier and create an angle. Truly, for me the deep moonball is the hardest shot for me to deal with. It messes with my timing, I have to generate all of my own power, and I have time to to over think the shot...none of those are good for me.

When I serve by far the worst to deal with is the player who can take my kick serve early....but, that is not easy to do. It is very hard and if you don't play against a kick serve much can be a real challenge. But, if you can handle it I will hate that due to the time it takes away from me. For players who cannot do that though standing way back and letting the ball come back down can work too. I'll definitely adjust when that happens and hit more slices and I'll serve and volley off that.

I play some rec tennis with some guys who cannot return a kick serve. We have a normal game where 12 of us and play doubles and four of those guys really struggle with the kick serve. Some time ago they all were talking with one of the pros at the club and he suggested they get really close and take it early and they have been doing that for about the last year. It is effective for them, I do get a lot of free points cause they are so close but they get more points in play than they otherwise would. It's also a fun game of cat and mouse with me trying to see if they are creeping in and hitting a flat serve or slice and them catching me with a kick serve and they get it early and have a great return....

 

[Pandora Mikado]

Vary pace, moonball, flat, use sharp angles and the full court, test his backhand. Not many can be aggressive if you moonball that backhand.

Also test shot endurance, if you can’t play at their pace, bring down to yours.

 

[Nostradamus]

or back up and let it drop back into your strike zone. Try some low skidding slices, guys with extreme western grips usually don’t like that.

no don't ever do that. if you do that, you give up court and give your opponent time and he will take you apart, cause that is exactly what he wants. Another way is to take Everything out of the air and hit all swinging volleys with topspin. Try it , its much easier than you think

 

[Pandora Mikado]

no don't ever do that. if you do that, you give up court and give your opponent time and he will take you apart, cause that is exactly what he wants. Another way is to take Everything out of the air and hit all swinging volleys with topspin. Try it , its much easier than you think

Agree with this, backing up against powerful hitters is a losing proposition. I would test their comfort zones around the court, slow down the pace and see their mindset.

 

[Injured Again]

‘Learn how to hit the ball on the rise’ is one of the most useless bits of advice people give

Nobody learns how to hit the ball on the rise. They learn how to hit a tennis ball, and the better they get at it, the earlier they can take it

Backing up is just about being aware of when giving yourself more time and space will let you hit a better shot

There is a huge difference between what I said, and what you thought I said.

I said "learn how to PLAY it on the rise", not how to hit it on the rise. There are a number of differences in shot selection between playing a ball on the rise versus hitting a ball at that exact same height after its apex in the bounce.

 

[Cashman]

There is a huge difference between what I said, and what you thought I said.

I said "learn how to PLAY it on the rise", not how to hit it on the rise. There are a number of differences in shot selection between playing a ball on the rise versus hitting a ball at that exact same height after its apex in the bounce.

You are talking nonsense

 

[nyta2]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match?

do something that he doesn't like (eg. slice low, drive deep, come to net, etc..)
that ideally solicits a ball you like to hit

Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

then stand in closer, so that you are in range to be able to step in
but if his serve (kick or whatever) is so much better than your ability to return... (aside from improving your return - which you won't do in the heat of battle)
your focus should probably be on just holding serve yourself, and see who blinks in the tie break

***

random thoughts/ideas/strats when i'm facing heavy topspinners:
* try to take it on the rise, to avoid being pushed too far back (ideally take ball bewteen waist & shoulder - vs over my head)
* try to keep ball low... harder to generate topspin from a low ball.. but regardless of if they are able to, the resulting ball will be lower (eg. not over my head))
* try come to come to net (topspinners tend to hit high over the net, making volleying easier... CON: maybe they can dip it)... mixing in net play will at least attempt to keep them from feeling comfortable just bombing high & heavy cc and SAFE (for them) topspin shots from the baseline)...
* try to do it to them, and make it a game of attrition
* try to take time away (come to net, take on the rise, hit deeper, hit flatter, etc..)... topspinners often require a bigger windup (and time) like thiem
* mentailly prep myself for a long physical battle... because, like "pushers" who never miss... often topspinners will not miss often either, along with having a weapon of being able to push me back, spread the court through angles, etc... and they are often in very good shape
* try to get them out of rhythm (change of pace, spin, depth, heights, etc...)... i get paid to make a 3.0/3.5 look like a superstar by continually hitting the same ball right in their strikezone without making them move

***

but there's no real "trick" to beating topspinners.. basically can get summarized as "get better"

 

[Chalkdust]

Backing up is the easiest way to play topspin

A lot of rec players have an aversion to playing too far behind the baseline, which is weird

I think it is maybe because they don’t have faith in their own shots being consistently deep enough to protect them from droppers and angles

Speaking only for myself here...

Most of the opponents I play against, I can't afford to give them time. If I do, they will sooner or later grind me down. On the other hand, if I take the ball early and take time away from them, I will have chances to be aggressive in the point which is more my game.

I think it comes down to play style, and your defensive skills vs your attacking skills. So the right answer will depend on the person and their opponent.

 

[LeeD]

Work on YOUR hi ball hitting skills.

 

[toby55555]

What standard are you playing at, I’m a solid 4.5 by US ratings and I have never come up against top spin so wicked it worried me and kick serves that actually kick with menace are almost non existent, I can only remember one and I play a lot of tournaments.

 

[stapletonj]

key to "taking it on the rise" - super short backswing.
personally, I try to hit a very flat ball off that kicker if I am taking it short.
that way my swing path has more slop to still hit a decent ball even if my timing is slightly off late or early.

 

[slipgrip93]

(Nishioka talking about Thiem's high bouncing balls at 1:42)
&
("Semi-open stance forehand" (dealing with high bouncing deep balls) - Meike Babel tennis)

 

[nyta2]

(Nishioka talking about Thiem's high bouncing balls at 1:42)

subbed! great vid, thx for sharing. wish more pros did this.

 

[zaskar1]

I’m playing against a player with a huge kick serve and heavy topspin forehand. Drives the ball well on the backhand. What do I need to do in order to win this match? Only hits a heavy kick serve that jumps to much to step in on.

TM
on the kick serve, stand in like a couple of feet, and block it or chop it back
try to slice the heavy topspin groundies back.
i occasionally play a lefty that has a big forehand and runs around his backhand, so i have to slice the shots back as usually i am hitting them above my shoulder
its not easy
z

 

[FedLIKEnot]

Something not many have said, is what skills do you have in your game that you could do to make it harder for your opponent to dictate with their top spin and/or kick serve? Meaning if you are a more flat hitter are you maybe trying to hit through the court more, aim for the corners to flip the court, or try to jam them up so they cannot take what is likely a loopy swing at the ball. Or perhaps, you use more underspin in the rally's so the ball stays low, especially if they have a relatively extreme grip. I know for me when I was more fit I would either try to take the ball early and redirect the pace, or if they hit a heavier ball I would back up some to get the ball in my 'strike zone' but knowing because I am now behind the baseline I have to hit my targets and dictate in the rallys more often. I was able to do that at the 3.5 level, as almost everyone else on here is a 5.0 to open player in there own brain I am sure you could do the same. Any if you cant, than you just have to hit a high first serve percentage and get all of your returns in play and get a little lucky.