need S&V advice

[canadave]

I'm 6' 4", 37 years old. I've always played a baseline game, more out of laziness than anything else I guess, but I've decided I want to try to develop a bit of a S&V game.

I tried it last night, and it failed miserably. What was happening is that I was serving my normal very fast hard serves, and as I approached the net, the returns were coming back right at my feet, right in "no man's land" in the middle of the court. Very awkward position for me, and it felt like I was basically using the strategy that my opponent would most want to see me play I mean, I was making it really easy for them.

I know all about the approach and split step and so on, but how are you supposed to S&V if the ball is coming back at your feet in no man's land before you can even get started? I need help on this....

 

[ubermeyer]

it's all about the half volley.

you might want to consider not coming in immediately or serving differently if the opponent repeatedly hits these returns

 

[Cindysphinx]

I was told to use spin, spin, spin and make sure you serve deep. It allows you a bit more time to get in without serving up a meatball for your opponent.

I don't S&V in singles. Not even as a change-up. It would be more efficient to just yell across the net, "Hey, let's speed this up and just declare that this next point is yours."

 

[damazing]

Try to jam them on the serve - go into the body or make them stretch wide to hit back their return.

ymmv

 

[skiracer55]

It'll take some work...

...a hard, fast serve is a great thing, as long as the returner doesn't get to it early, which often results in a volley off the shoe tops. What you're trying to do with S and V is put in a can-opener serve that gives you a return that allows you to hit a decent first volley, then move in and cut off the return. Most S&V points are serve, first volley, finishing volley. There are much longer discussions, in these fora and elsewhere, on S&V, but mostly you have to figure out a serving strategy and a movement pattern that gives you the upper hand on the first volley...

 

[Tennis Dunce]

I'm 6' 4", 37 years old. I've always played a baseline game, more out of laziness than anything else I guess, but I've decided I want to try to develop a bit of a S&V game.

I tried it last night, and it failed miserably. What was happening is that I was serving my normal very fast hard serves, and as I approached the net, the returns were coming back right at my feet, right in "no man's land" in the middle of the court. Very awkward position for me, and it felt like I was basically using the strategy that my opponent would most want to see me play I mean, I was making it really easy for them.

I know all about the approach and split step and so on, but how are you supposed to S&V if the ball is coming back at your feet in no man's land before you can even get started? I need help on this....

Guess they're not so "very fast hard serves" after all...ya think?

 

[naylor]

To play S&V singles, the key is not so much speed of serve (unless you can do it at 25kph faster than the average first serve for your grade, i.e. you can do bullets). At normal club player level, it's placement - moving the ball outside the opponent's natural hitting zone (both away from him, and into his body), so he has to move fast to adjust his position before he can return your serve. If he can just stand there and tee off on your serve, or use its speed to block it back at your feet, you have a problem!

Therefore, answer no. 1 is - learn to move your serve around the service box, to keep the returner guessing, even if it means trading some pace for better placement and "action" (as in, kick or slice). And by placement, I mean being able to put it reasonably close to the lines and corners of the service box.

Once you do that, then the second area to work on is your movement into the net, to best cover the angles the returner has. In very simple terms, this means following your own ball to the net, so if your serve is moving away from the court, on the deuce side, then you move in and left to cover more of your ad side (for the down-the-line return).

The third area is variety - not playing S&V on every ball, because if you do that the best way for the returner to play you is to step in and block all your serves back at your feet (hard or soft, doesn't much matter), and then nail you if you only push a floater off your shoelaces back over the net. So, as some have already suggested, don't come on some serves, keep him guessing. Now you will find that the blocked return landing on the service line, which troubled you so much when trying to volley it, is actually a very nice ball to attack after it bounces - stepping upcourt to play a deep approach to a corner and follow into the net.

 

[5263]

The key is to SV on guys who you make float back their returns, or at least give you something to work with. If a guy can put it right back on your feet when you SV, then you must wait for a mid court ball to transition on.

If you serve very fast, you need to be able to hit your spots, as just speed won't get it done against a good opponent. Must hit the corners or be able to get the jammer going, which is one of my personal favs.

The other option is a good kick like Edberg. It gives more time to close into net and the vertical bounce is tougher to rtn flat and hard to your feet.
good luck

 

[jrod]

I rarely use a hard, flat serve in doubles as it gives me less time to get to net. My kicker and slice are far more effective and I am at least a step or two ahead of where I'd be with the flat bomb.

Secondly, I agree you do need a decent half volley. I'd say as much as 25% of the points I S&V on I'm forced to hit a half volley. You also need to be capable of hitting low, shoetop volleys. Both these shots you need to be able to place accurately. If you don't have both these shot in your arsenal, you will get burned a sizeable percentage of the time. Practicing these transistion shots is more time consuming than practicing baseline or volleys, since you need to reset every time. However, if you spend 20 minutes per hitting session working on them you will get more comfortable with them.

Finally, you definitely need to mix things up, both with serve spin/placement and whether or not you follow it in. This, along with your partner poaching or faking will place more pressure on the returner and will inevitably create better opportunities for your S&V game.

 

[FloridaAG]

I would use kick and slice serves - you can also see how your opponent returns - ie. if kick servers to backhand lead to floaters that is where you should S&V - Do they hit good returns off slices in the deuce court? If weak returns that is a good serve. Your serve and the return are beating you to the spot. So by adding spin, you will get furtheri nto the court hopefully.

 

[Blake0]

First off, it seems to me you said you get stuck in no mans land...which is a problem..your first volley should be hit (on S&V) atleast around the service line, the closer the better (ofcourse not like on top of the net).

When you serve, make sure you jump into the court, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88VJbv3X6-4), watch how both players right after they make contact with the ball on their serve and land, they're already in the baseline sometimes a good foot in, and running forward. Make sure you don't wait to see if the balls in or not before running in, just start running in right away. Sometimes when i s&v, and my serve goes out, i'm in no mans land, by the time its called out. Hopefully this helps.

 

[fruitytennis1]

Whats fun to do is serve then wait a little in no mans zone and hit a half volley drop shot. Then when they are running up stand right near the net where you hit your shot and shove that ball back up their throat.

 

[wyutani]

serve at opponents body, run up front, wait for weak return. destroy.

 

[Nellie]

a key for serve and volley is to stop before the return so that you can be in control to handle the return, even if it is tough - at your feet. Hitting that shot on the run is super tough. With a little practice, a half volley at your feet is not too tough - you can block it back to the open court - think deep and move forward to prepare for the next shot. At your height - you would be tough to pass and lob, but you would not want to get too far foward (more than 1/3 into the service box) because you may not back up as quickly as a smaller player.

If you practice a little (try a couple of service tosses with explosion toward the net), you can really improve your movement forward to the net while still staying in control. You can really see why Edberg/rafter had so much lean into the court.

I have a rule of always splitting before the service line and waiting for the return. Than I move two more step and look for the next shot. Also, I find using second serves with good placement are better for s&v because I can get another step to the net before the ball is returned. With a hard serve, I am sometimes barely through the service motion when the ball is screaming back. I only use the flat serve into the body a couple of times when the opponent cheats forward on the return.

Remember also, if the ball is low, volley/ half volley deep to continue the shot.force an error and if the ball is high, be aggressive with your angle.

Have fun.

 

[canadave]

a key for serve and volley is to stop before the return so that you can be in control to handle the return, even if it is tough - at your feet. Hitting that shot on the run is super tough. With a little practice, a half volley at your feet is not too tough - you can block it back to the open court - think deep and move forward to prepare for the next shot. At your height - you would be tough to pass and lob, but you would not want to get too far foward (more than 1/3 into the service box) because you may not back up as quickly as a smaller player.

If you practice a little (try a couple of service tosses with explosion toward the net), you can really improve your movement forward to the net while still staying in control. You can really see why Edberg/rafter had so much lean into the court.

I have a rule of always splitting before the service line and waiting for the return. Than I move two more step and look for the next shot. Also, I find using second serves with good placement are better for s&v because I can get another step to the net before the ball is returned. With a hard serve, I am sometimes barely through the service motion when the ball is screaming back. I only use the flat serve into the body a couple of times when the opponent cheats forward on the return.

Remember also, if the ball is low, volley/ half volley deep to continue the shot.force an error and if the ball is high, be aggressive with your angle.

Have fun.

Excellent advice, thanks! And thanks to everyone else as well (except the guy with the snide comment about my serves).

The bolded bits I quoted above are exactly the problems I often run into. You've given some good tips on getting around that.

 

[Kick_It]

I'd also recommend you check replies, like mine, in the related thread "The best serve for S&V" - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=281962

Good Luck! K_I

 

[5263]

Excellent advice, thanks! And thanks to everyone else as well (except the guy with the snide comment about my serves).

The bolded bits I quoted above are exactly the problems I often run into. You've given some good tips on getting around that.

I'm Known to some extent on these boards for hating advice not to get tighter to net. If your approach was good, then Lobbing should be very tough. Most players by far don't lob well at all. It don't take long to find out if they do or not. Start by getting tight and most matches will let you feast on easy overheads if your approach shot is good.

Only the perfect TS lob is tough to get back for. Just make sure you open the shoulders and hips at the first sight of the ball lifting for a lob. Waiting to see where it is going is what kills you. Don't waste that precious time. With the hips and shoulders turned, you can sprint back like a QB and even get many TS lobs easily. When I teach players this, they are shocked how easy getting lobs can be.

 

[jserve]

For me, my flat serve isn't nearly as effective as my spin serves when I serve and volley. I usually try and hit a kicker to my opponents backhand. The slower spin serves allow me to get a step or two closer to the net and avoid the balls getting too low.