Need some advice on my serve, USTA 5.5+

[JD-]

Hey Guys,
I'm looking to simplify my motion and get more pop off my serve, it has a lot of height coming off the bounce but I'd like to increase the pace and simplify the motion for easier targeting. My coach has said it takes to long for me to get into trophy position hence why I toss so high, and I do notice my landing on the base line rather than in the court, not to mention my body turning to the left on the finish. If there's any tricks to getting that left foot to land facing the opponent that would be great. I already use a long extension on the left and right arm to get my toss in front in an attempt to force my body forward and up rather than just up. I make what I have work but I'm always to fix/improve on things, if there's a better way let me know. Looking forward to any ideas, thanks for looking!

 

[Curious]

My advice would be: don’t post here again. You’re disrupting the morale of our community here!

 

[snoflewis]

Obligatory post. Where i live, you'd be a 3.5 at best.

also dont ask for tips where 99.9% of ppl are nowhere near your level. I can recommend you some good socks though. And the TW t-shirts are kinda nice.

 

[chic]

So I'mma preface with: I'm a 4.0, you're way better than me (and most of the people on this forum tbqh). So feel free to disregard.

It looks to me like you're barely tossing the ball in front of you at all. Which (if true) kinda ruins the getting the momentum going forward part of pinpoint serving as well. You transition it into a pure upward jump which I feel is more common with platform serves where the hip turn is providing a bit more of the power generation.

So maybe try tossing 12oclock and further out front (which will also force you to hit it a bit lower as you'd be springing a bit more forward and less up).

If you do find an answer/ solution you like, let us know! I'm curious about your perspective at the level you're at!

 

[Curious]

So I'mma preface with: I'm a 4.0, you're way better than me (and most of the people on this forum tbqh). So feel free to disregard.

It looks to me like you're barely tossing the ball in front of you at all. Which (if true) kinda ruins the getting the momentum going forward part of pinpoint serving as well. You transition it into a pure upward jump which I feel is more common with platform serves where the hip turn is providing a bit more of the power generation.

So maybe try tossing 12oclock and further out front (which will also force you to hit it a bit lower as you'd be springing a bit more forward and less up).

If you do find an answer/ solution you like, let us know! I'm curious about your perspective at the level you're at!

Ok that encouraged me to have a look again. Man, that toss is a little too much to your left.

 

[Keendog]

also dont ask for tips where 99.9% of ppl are nowhere near your level. I can recommend you some good socks though. And the TW t-shirts are kinda nice.

This. The Tips & Instruction name of this forum is only meant in irony, kinda like calling a skinny guy 'muscles'.

That said it seems pretty obvious to me that you fall to the left because your toss goes there. So to get more pop either toss straigther, or get a babolat pure drive :/

 

[ReopeningWed]

Seems like a good question for the good @J011yroger!

Not a question for OP, but in general: does it matter which direction your leg kicks out in? I imagine I want to fall into the court so my back leg kicks towards the back fence. Should I be doing what OP is doing?

 

[mikeler]

4.5 here (technically had a year at 5.0). You serve like me, it just takes a long time to get everything going. So you have to toss the ball a little higher than necessary like I do. The only correction if you are committed to it is to practice getting your racket back and in motion a little earlier before you toss. My 2 cents...

 

[navigator]

I play 5.5 and Open level, so I make what I have work but I'm always to fix/improve on things, if there's a better way let me know. Looking forward to any ideas, thanks for looking!

Just out of curiosity... what does your level have to do with improving your serve? It seems completely irrelevant to the discussion and yet you mentioned it twice.

 

[chic]

Not a question for OP, but in general: does it matter which direction your leg kicks out in? I imagine I want to fall into the court so my back leg kicks towards the back fence. Should I be doing what OP is doing?

I don't think it "matters" in the sense of you want to force it to go a certain way.

I do think it "matters" in that its an indicator with a pinpoint serve that your momentum is/isn't moving forward through the serve.

Ie it's a symptom, if you notice it it tells you you need to fix something else so it kicks toward the back, but don't force it

Edit: here's a link to Nick (imo the best pinpoint server of avg height) which I believe backs up my statement about moving into the court and shows the leg kicking back. (I recommend watching at .25 speed)

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Hey Guys,
I'm looking to simplify my motion and get more pop off my serve, it has a lot of height coming off the bounce but I'd like to increase the pace and simplify the motion for easier targeting. My coach has said it takes to long for me to get into trophy position hence why I toss so high, and I do notice my landing on the base line rather than in the court, not to mention my body turning to the left on the finish. If there's any tricks to getting that left foot to land facing the opponent that would be great. I already use a long extension on the left and right arm to get my toss in front in an attempt to force my body forward and up rather than just up. I make what I have work but I'm always to fix/improve on things, if there's a better way let me know. Looking forward to any ideas, thanks for looking!

By any chance do you have shoulder flexibility/movement issues? I ask because it seems like you should be able to achieve a lower racquet drop but it looks like something is preventing it from happening.

 

[Curious]

Just out of curiosity... what does your level have to do with improving your serve? It seems completely irrelevant to the discussion and yet you mentioned it twice.

Just edited his post.

 

[IowaGuy]

If you can toss more in front = more forward momentum into court.

 

[Znak]

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[chic]

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Oooooo that looks fun. Need to get me some cones or a footwork hurdle...

 

[J011yroger]

Wow, ok, you look like a big strong dude.

You are fighting yourself by tossing behind your head (to your left) and bringing your back foot up past the front which opens your hips.

Bring the toe of your back foot up to the arch of your front foot and move your toss to 1 o'clock just to the right of your head, that will line you up behind the ball, then swing to the right of the ball and make contact a little lower.

You should be blistering the ball.

J

 

[JD-]

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That's a great drill! good lookin out!

 

[mad dog1]

Weight is falling over to the left after the serve due to tossing too far to the left. Front foot should be landing inside the baseline after the serve caused by not tossing far enough into the court. Your heels are pretty much planted on the ground in your load position.

 

[Curious]

Wow, ok, you look like a big strong dude.

You are fighting yourself by tossing behind your head (to your left) and bringing your back foot up past the front which opens your hips.

Bring the toe of your back foot up to the arch of your front foot and move your toss to 1 o'clock just to the right of your head, that will line you up behind the ball, then swing to the right of the ball and make contact a little lower.

You should be blistering the ball.

J

Is his toss placement good for kick serve?

 

[JD-]

Wow, ok, you look like a big strong dude.

You are fighting yourself by tossing behind your head (to your left) and bringing your back foot up past the front which opens your hips.

Bring the toe of your back foot up to the arch of your front foot and move your toss to 1 o'clock just to the right of your head, that will line you up behind the ball, then swing to the right of the ball and make contact a little lower.

You should be blistering the ball.

J

That's the stuff right there, thanks I'm gonna try that tomorrow. Along with the cone drill.
I guess by throwing it a bit to the left I'm trying to give it a bit more brushing up for spin but it's not letting me get a direct strike, which would take away pace

 

[jm1980]

Just out of curiosity... what does your level have to do with improving your serve? It seems completely irrelevant to the discussion and yet you mentioned it twice.

He's also a 4.5C according to the USTA... Played one tournament match this year at the Open level and lost 0 and 1

A legit 5.5+ player asking for advice here would be kind of like a college Quantum Physics professor wandering into a high school Physics class and asking the students for advice

 

[chic]

Is his toss placement good for kick serve?

Sure, but at 5.5 it's probably worth sacrificing some of his spin potential to disguise the serve better

 

[J011yroger]

Seems like a good question for the good @J011yroger!

Not a question for OP, but in general: does it matter which direction your leg kicks out in? I imagine I want to fall into the court so my back leg kicks towards the back fence. Should I be doing what OP is doing?

I'm honored.

The leg kicks out to counter balance the upper body, so it's a tell what direction your body is leaning.

Ideally you will land balanced on the front foot and able to push back to the baseline to react to a strong return or hold your ground on a strong serve to take advantage of a weak return.

What you don't want is to be leaning or falling so you are unable to react to the first ball.

J

 

[J011yroger]

Is his toss placement good for kick serve?

Not really.

J

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

He's also a 4.5C according to the USTA

A legit 5.5+ player asking for advice here would be kind of like a college Quantum Physics professor wandering into a high school Physics class and asking the students for advice

I was told a story by a much older friend about riding the bus as a girl and an older man with shocks of white hair would pat his pockets looking for change and finally give up when the bus driver told him not to worry about it.

It was Einstein.

 

[J011yroger]

That's the stuff right there, thanks I'm gonna try that tomorrow. Along with the cone drill.
I guess by throwing it a bit to the left I'm trying to give it a bit more brushing up for spin but it's not letting me get a direct strike, which would take away pace

If you need/want more brush you can toss between 12&1 and turn more and get under the ball.

You are currently reaching behind yourself and slapping the ball. Contact is too high for much spin.

J

 

[Curious]

Not really.

J

Where should it be? On a clock face and the amount of depth into the court?

 

[J011yroger]

Where should it be? On a clock face and the amount of depth into the court?

It should be lined up above your chin, I guess 12 o'clock, maybe 6 inches into the court for straight topspin and 12" for kick or very wide.

J

 

[mad dog1]

He's also a 4.5C according to the USTA... Played one tournament match this year at the Open level and lost 0 and 1

A legit 5.5+ player asking for advice here would be kind of like a college Quantum Physics professor wandering into a high school Physics class and asking the students for advice

Craigslist 5.5?

 

[Dragy]

@JD- can you post filming of your second serve as well? Curious how it looks.

Your prep and load is ok, no need to abbreviate it in any kind. Look, you get up in the air, pretty straight up above the baseline, get stretched up from toe to hand of hitting arm, your arm-to-racquet angle is rather shallow, and you still only get to the ball with the very tip of your racquet:

I think you can just toss lower and you won't be rushed - if you hit the ball 6-8" lower. Meeting the yellow thing with the racquet sweetspot will also help the pop you want.

I suggest that you generally toss more casually. As guys above suggested, less to the left, more inside the court, and a tad lower. I'd also suggest getting comfortable with a bit lower contact. This toss and respective contact adjustment should take care of your serve.

BTW, video is a bit angled, which makes toss look even more to the left than it actually is...

 

[jm1980]

Craigslist 5.5?

I found his insistence on stating his level very curious, so I had to check... He played JuCo tennis and a couple of seasons at 4.5 with a losing record, so this 5.5+ rating is pretty dubious

 

[JD-]

@JD- can you post filming of your second serve as well? Curious how it looks.

Your prep and load is ok, no need to abbreviate it in any kind. Look, you get up in the air, pretty straight up above the baseline, get stretched up from toe to hand of hitting arm, your arm-to-racquet angle is rather shallow, and you still only get to the ball with the very tip of your racquet:

I think you can just toss lower and you won't be rushed - if you hit the ball 6-8" lower. Meeting the yellow thing with the racquet sweetspot will also help the pop you want.

I suggest that you generally toss more casually. As guys above suggested, less to the left, more inside the court, and a tad lower. I'd also suggest getting comfortable with a bit lower contact. This toss and respective contact adjustment should take care of your serve.

BTW, video is a bit angled, which makes toss look even more to the left than it actually is...

Ok perfect, I can do that, I have a drill for that. Thanks for your help!

 

[Curious]

Ok perfect, I can do that, I have a drill for that. Thanks for your help!

Mate, you’re not replying to those questioning your level. Is there a particular reason?

 

[JD-]

Mate, you’re not replying to those questioning your level. Is there a particular reason?

Yeah bud, it's because I know these types of guys, they get a kick out of trolling, instead of getting out there on the court and working on their tennis game. This is their tennis game, these guys would talk smack on John Millman if they had the chance. I didn't expect a background check, but I guess they have a lot of time on their hands. It's true I played Juco tennis back in the day, and down rated myself 4.5 in USTA to play some tournament for fun, clearly, I don't play USTA matches much though. That 0-1 loss was to the #1 at the Naval Academy, tough draw. I play with actual open level players and 5.5's and can regularly beat some. The title is to represent the attention of high-level players because yes, I'd prefer to receive advice from those who know more. Besides, why would I give attention to those who apply no benefit to the conversation? It's a waste of precious time getting better.

Anyways, I really appreciate those who offered up some good advice, thank you!

 

[Curious]

Yeah bud, it's because I know these types of guys, they get a kick out of trolling, instead of getting out there on the court and working on their tennis game. This is their tennis game, these guys would talk smack on John Millman if they had the chance. I didn't expect a background check, but I guess they have a lot of time on their hands. It's true I played Juco tennis back in the day, and down rated myself 4.5 in USTA to play some tournament for fun, clearly, I don't play USTA matches much though. That 0-1 loss was to the #1 at the Naval Academy, tough draw. I play with actual open level players and 5.5's and can regularly beat some. The title is to represent the attention of high-level players because yes, I'd prefer to receive advice from those who know more. Besides, why would I give attention to those who apply no benefit to the conversation? It's a waste of precious time getting better.

Anyways, I really appreciate those who offered up some good advice, thank you!

Fair enough. It’s good to have more higher level players here for some competition. Otherwise they keep abusing us lower level ones. We put up with it just to get a bit of free advice, they call us names, spit, swear you name it! Just the other day I did Jolly’s grocery shopping before cleaning his house. What can you do, mate? We love tennis and it comes with a price.

 

[Dondon]

Knees should bend till 90 degrees before take off

 

[Keendog]

Yeah bud, it's because I know these types of guys, they get a kick out of trolling, instead of getting out there on the court and working on their tennis game. This is their tennis game, these guys would talk smack on John Millman if they had the chance. I didn't expect a background check, but I guess they have a lot of time on their hands. It's true I played Juco tennis back in the day, and down rated myself 4.5 in USTA to play some tournament for fun, clearly, I don't play USTA matches much though. That 0-1 loss was to the #1 at the Naval Academy, tough draw. I play with actual open level players and 5.5's and can regularly beat some. The title is to represent the attention of high-level players because yes, I'd prefer to receive advice from those who know more. Besides, why would I give attention to those who apply no benefit to the conversation? It's a waste of precious time getting better.

Anyways, I really appreciate those who offered up some good advice, thank you!

Exactly, everytime someone posts their ranking some people have to spend time throwing **** on them. It's called tall poppy syndrome. Have to ask yourself why, does it make you feel better to try and lower everyone down to your level. Are you that insecure to know there are people that are better than you at tennis? Well @jm1980 ? Spending time on a forum researching people instead of trying to find answers? Pathetic

 

[J011yroger]

Yeah bud, it's because I know these types of guys, they get a kick out of trolling, instead of getting out there on the court and working on their tennis game. This is their tennis game, these guys would talk smack on John Millman if they had the chance. I didn't expect a background check, but I guess they have a lot of time on their hands. It's true I played Juco tennis back in the day, and down rated myself 4.5 in USTA to play some tournament for fun, clearly, I don't play USTA matches much though. That 0-1 loss was to the #1 at the Naval Academy, tough draw. I play with actual open level players and 5.5's and can regularly beat some. The title is to represent the attention of high-level players because yes, I'd prefer to receive advice from those who know more. Besides, why would I give attention to those who apply no benefit to the conversation? It's a waste of precious time getting better.

Anyways, I really appreciate those who offered up some good advice, thank you!

If you would like, I will be in your area this weekend if you wanted to BS and hit around.

If you are busy with holiday stuff or don't want to meet up with some weirdo on the internet I'd appreciate if you could point me towards some people to hit with. I was going to just email the USD coach and ask if any players were sticking around.

J

 

[TheIntrovert]

Throw further in front and carry your body weight into the court. You should be landing inside the court whereas now you’re landing off to the side and still behind the line.

 

[sovertennis]

That's a great drill! good lookin out!

When I tried this I landed kinda awkwardly on the cone. Now I use a newspaper.

 

[5263]

Ok that encouraged me to have a look again. Man, that toss is a little too much to your left.

yes, and not into the court enough...

 

[Kdude]

your toss is way off... I would start with that.

 

[Deleted member 766172]

+1 to the people saying you should toss farther into the court. I definitely believe you are as good as you say you are. I think that second serve in the video was around 110 mph with near perfect precision (may have been a bit wide).

 

[jm1980]

Exactly, everytime someone posts their ranking some people have to spend time throwing **** on them. It's called tall poppy syndrome. Have to ask yourself why, does it make you feel better to try and lower everyone down to your level. Are you that insecure to know there are people that are better than you at tennis? Well @jm1980 ? Spending time on a forum researching people instead of trying to find answers? Pathetic

I personally don't think reporting their actual NTRP rating and their record is "throwing **** on them"

A 5.5+ around here would be like a unicorn... Walking in and claiming to be a unicorn will invite some scrutiny to those claims. Dude says he "down rated" himself at 4.5, but then lost 0 and 2 to an actual 4.5? Okay, then

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Not really possible for OP to improve without switching to an RF97 with champions choice and Uniqlo polo. There really is a limit here.

 

[JD-]

If you would like, I will be in your area this weekend if you wanted to BS and hit around.

If you are busy with holiday stuff or don't want to meet up with some weirdo on the internet I'd appreciate if you could point me towards some people to hit with. I was going to just email the USD coach and ask if any players were sticking around.

J

Yeah that'd be awesome! I'm gonna send you a PM with some of my info and we'll make it happen

 

[JD-]

I personally don't think reporting their actual NTRP rating and their record is "throwing **** on them"

A 5.5+ around here would be like a unicorn here... Walking in and claiming to be a unicorn will invite some scrutiny to those claims. Dude says he "down rated" himself at 4.5, but then lost 0 and 2 to an actual 4.5? Okay, then

5.5's aren't unicorns man, it's very attainable for a lot of the players on these forums, they just need to put in the hours and get up the next morning to do it again, and again. Then 3 years later you look back and can't recognize the player you used to be. Good luck with your tennis

 

[jm1980]

5.5's aren't unicorns man, it's very attainable for a lot of the players on these forums, they just need to put in the hours and get up the next morning to do it again, and again. Then 3 years later you look back and can't recognize the player you used to be. Good luck with your tennis

They are unicorns around here. Very few folks who are that good stick around

 

[J011yroger]

5.5's aren't unicorns man, it's very attainable for a lot of the players on these forums, they just need to put in the hours and get up the next morning to do it again, and again. Then 3 years later you look back and can't recognize the player you used to be. Good luck with your tennis

It's been 33 years for me!

J

 

[PrinceMoron]

Sometimes you can do more just by gripping it and ripping it

Toss out in front a little lower and just get the racquet head speed up

Slow and ponderous start can just drag it all down

If you want to build it up slow I would check out the position of the palm of non racquet hand
Keep it palm up and feel the stretch


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