Need some opinions on what a coach said

Give me a break!
Do you earn your money/living playing tennis?
It's not a job for almost every poster on here, yes it takes "work" to improve, but it's still supposed to be FUN!

Totally agree. This isn't a job. Sometimes tennis is frustrating and that's fine. Take a break, try to do the things you love about playing. But you need to be doing it because you enjoy it.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
200.gif
 

1stVolley

Professional
Even ATP pros have coaches.
Everyone can benefit from ongoing feedback and correction.
....
Yes this is quite true but it does not take into account priority. If you are out of condition and have poor footwork correcting these things on your own before going through the expense of hiring a coach may be advisable--especially with the issue of getting into condition enough so you can't concentrate during the lesson. Footwork may be harder to improve on your own but I'm only talking about doing some basic exercises to improve lateral movement and maybe some agility ladder work--both of which are amply illustrated on internet video.

Most people can't afford more than lessons once per week so anything you can do on your own, where presumably you have multiple days per week to work on them, is a definite plus.
 

E46luver

Professional
If anything, the best time to take lessons is after a break when bad habits are soft and you can put yourself on the correct path before bad habits emerge again
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
Yes this is quite true but it does not take into account priority. If you are out of condition and have poor footwork correcting these things on your own before going through the expense of hiring a coach may be advisable--especially with the issue of getting into condition enough so you can't concentrate during the lesson. Footwork may be harder to improve on your own but I'm only talking about doing some basic exercises to improve lateral movement and maybe some agility ladder work--both of which are amply illustrated on internet video.

Most people can't afford more than lessons once per week so anything you can do on your own, where presumably you have multiple days per week to work on them, is a definite plus.
Agree with this, there are a few players at my club that think that their strokes need improving when it is actually their footwork or lack thereof that is the real issue. I spoke with a few friends about getting together a footwork squad with a good coach I know. We all agreed its important to have technically correct strokes but the footwork patterns in certain situations will make them much more effective. The coach I know has a very encouraging style and takes pride in improving his students. Shared squad means shared cost so win win.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Im glad to answer any question anyone has about this, to help clear some vague things, if anyone is interested in anything they can ask me, and il do my best to answer it was honestly as I can.
 

E46luver

Professional
2.0 NTRP per TTW ratings

I was asking FX.

Guys who insist tennis is FUN FUN FUN
and you're not getting paid,
only ATP pros should work hard at tennis
generally can't relate to the fact that
tennis improvement is hard frustrating work
particularly at the lowest levels.

Nadal has had the same FH since he was 14.
The middle aged fat 3.0 trying to get a real FH is working hard
 
Last edited:
My view is probably what you dont want to hear. You already knew going in that the ppl in the group were better even before your injury. You said it yourself. After the first lesson post injury, you also knew the group was much better than you. So you should have either started to work your butt off to improve to their level or bow out. I've been on the receiving end of significantly weaker players having the ego to think they are at the same level of an advanced group session and it frankly bothers the heck out of me because I get zero benefit and am wasting my time...

Remember everyone is paying to improve, not just you. In tennis the weakest link can become disruptive to the benefit of the group. Perhaps you were ignorant but from your message you already knew the level was above your head. So why are you slowing everyone else down??

Maybe the coach didnt approach it the right way, but I can guarantee everyone else there was thinking the same thing. I frankly applaud such coaches, because they care. I've seen way too many coaches look the other way because its a loss of revenue for them to disrupt the status quo, or because they want to be on friendly terms, or because they are so brain dead they just dont care. A good coach isnt your friend. They should 100% be focused on improvement... And to me that's what the coach did, focused on the betterment of the collective group as a whole.

Sorry!
BooooooooH ! ! !
 
I was asking FX.
Guys who insist tennis is FUN FUN FUN
and you're not getting paid,
only ATP pros should work hard at tennis
generally can't relate to the fact that tennis improvement is hard frustrating work
particularly at the lowest levels.

Nadal has had the same FH since he was 14.
The middle aged fat 3.0 trying to get a real FH is working hard

You do realize you can work hard, improve, and still have fun right? Like they aren't mutually exclusive. You don't have to take verbal abuse to get better. You don't have to hit so much that your hands start bleeding. It is such a movie trope that you have to hate what you are doing and be miserable in order to improve. That is not how it works in the real world. You can have fun, love what you do, and improve.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
I will try to make it short

I used to go to group lessons once a week last year, on top of all the other things, group of 4, players were good, better than me, but I could somewhat compete with them
I got injured and in the past like 8 or 9 months I haven't played any tennis, I don't know if any of you had long injuries but hopefully someone can relate how it is after a long time like that off courts
Started slowly playing now
Decided to start going to those lessons again since they are dirt cheap, on top of playing with ppl I know

Went to 1 lesson last week, feels like those ppl improved quite a bit, well they did train alot for many months while I was injured.. me of course im out of shape and form, struggled, specially with their balls
Now I had another lesson this week also, felt like I got used to the balls and all a bit better alltho still quite poor everything, much worse than I played before my injury, but slowly improving
During training the coach started yelling at me to play better and that I need to focus more and its bad, and then started saying that other players improved alot in this time and I need to play better because they want to play like they know how to play and im wasting their time... and he kept saying that for many minutes that its a waste of time for them if I will play like this, that we can't have trainings anymore etc... and he knows WELL about my history in the past months and not playing and all that..

He kept saying all these things infront of everyone and it made me feel really bad and embarassed and pissed... so then I decided to leave... and he said are you done? good...

I just want to hear opinions from ppl here, what you think about all this? I was quite shocked and felt very embarassed by this and pissed and I feel like its not the right thing to say and go about, specially infront of other ppl and I feel very mad about it.. am I in the wrong here, I would like to hear your opinions
Fire him. End of story.
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
I haven't taken classes or lessons from a ton of people, maybe a half dozen different people. It was fairly common for there to be a variety of levels in group lessons, or even small lessons of 2-4, frankly. A good coach will know how to handle having some disparity or variety in ability and work with that. Frankly, even a few that were not that great at teaching could handle this.

On the other hand, if you're joining a group that works together all the time, it might be kind of like joining a college class mid-term. As a coach, there are better ways to handle things rather than verbalize this frustration, though.

We've all been in group lessons were there's that one person that can't hack it. If you are doing it wrong, it can drag the whole session down - but it doesn't have to completely if you have some ability. Apparently, this guy does not.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
It is good to see you back in fine form (both here and in a few other threads). That was hilarious. Keep the good times rolling.
Lol... I actually used something similar once. Some person pissed me off at some thing or another. I told him, "You are one paycheck away from having to ask people, 'do you want fries with that ?' so I suggest you modify your behavior". I basically riffed it off the cuff and the guy didn't know what to say. And walked away. My wife was mad at me for being so mean. But I enjoyed myself. It was in relation to a job or service he was doing for me. Can't remember exact details.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

vex

Legend
I will try to make it short

I used to go to group lessons once a week last year, on top of all the other things, group of 4, players were good, better than me, but I could somewhat compete with them
I got injured and in the past like 8 or 9 months I haven't played any tennis, I don't know if any of you had long injuries but hopefully someone can relate how it is after a long time like that off courts
Started slowly playing now
Decided to start going to those lessons again since they are dirt cheap, on top of playing with ppl I know

Went to 1 lesson last week, feels like those ppl improved quite a bit, well they did train alot for many months while I was injured.. me of course im out of shape and form, struggled, specially with their balls
Now I had another lesson this week also, felt like I got used to the balls and all a bit better alltho still quite poor everything, much worse than I played before my injury, but slowly improving
During training the coach started yelling at me to play better and that I need to focus more and its bad, and then started saying that other players improved alot in this time and I need to play better because they want to play like they know how to play and im wasting their time... and he kept saying that for many minutes that its a waste of time for them if I will play like this, that we can't have trainings anymore etc... and he knows WELL about my history in the past months and not playing and all that..

He kept saying all these things infront of everyone and it made me feel really bad and embarassed and pissed... so then I decided to leave... and he said are you done? good...

I just want to hear opinions from ppl here, what you think about all this? I was quite shocked and felt very embarassed by this and pissed and I feel like its not the right thing to say and go about, specially infront of other ppl and I feel very mad about it.. am I in the wrong here, I would like to hear your opinions
Trash coach. Close the wallet.
 

Knox

Semi-Pro
I was asking FX.

Guys who insist tennis is FUN FUN FUN
and you're not getting paid,
only ATP pros should work hard at tennis
generally can't relate to the fact that
tennis improvement is hard frustrating work
particularly at the lowest levels.

Nadal has had the same FH since he was 14.
The middle aged fat 3.0 trying to get a real FH is working hard

Brother, if improving is hard and frustrating for you then you need to find a different approach.

I've been constantly improving at this game for over a decade and have never been frustrated by the process, never found it difficult.

I don't think I'm some tennis savant or gifted athlete or anything either, I just realize that I'm going to be doing this for a LONG time, so I can relax.

Ya got at least 50 years to get as good as you want, it's not a race.
 

E46luver

Professional
I've been constantly improving at this game for over a decade and have never been frustrated by the process, never found it difficult.
Ya got at least 50 years to get as good as you want, it's not a race.

An advanced player would never say tennis is easy
So, what is your level after an entire decade of work?
If you never found tennis frustrating or difficult, it suggests that you're still a low level player.
Do you wear flips flops and no shirt while playing with your yoga pant girlfriend and dog running around the court?

No, you don't have 50 years to learn.
A male body starts declining by age 30
50 years of training, if you're training for boat cruise shuffleboard doubles for geriatrics
That's not even real tennis.
 

Dragy

Legend
A male body starts declining by age 30
Tennis is not about getting max off your body, otherwise 20-25 crowd would dominate the tour.
It’s about techniques and mind much more than most other sports.
So yes, given rec level of challenge, any player has decades to learn. Whenever he or she likes, progress opportunities are here to pick.
 

E46luver

Professional
It is a total myth that you have decades to learn.
There are very few adult players who show any notable improvements
They are freak outliers. I would say 3% of club players ever get noticeably better
Most people stagnate for decades, for a variety of reasons.
 

saiclone

New User
It is a total myth that you have decades to learn.
There are very few adult players who show any notable improvements
They are freak outliers. I would say 3% of club players ever get noticeably better
Most people stagnate for decades, for a variety of reasons.
If you're interested, you're always learning - one aspect of tennis is making the most of your current physical capabilities.

So, yes, you've got 50 years to learn.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 
It is a total myth that you have decades to learn.
There are very few adult players who show any notable improvements
They are freak outliers. I would say 3% of club players ever get noticeably better
Most people stagnate for decades, for a variety of reasons.
Very weird and condescending attitude you have son--you've obviously never attended a Senior Age Group tournament. WE all have the ability to improve if motivated--the vast majority of players are recreational and just want to have some fun, some exercise and some suds afterwards. To say one can't improve if one desires to is so ridiculous it does not deserve ANY further reply--how old are you?--perhaps you're projecting.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
It is a total myth that you have decades to learn.
There are very few adult players who show any notable improvements
They are freak outliers. I would say 3% of club players ever get noticeably better
Most people stagnate for decades, for a variety of reasons.
How big is the sample size you took to arrive at these stats?
 

E46luver

Professional
It's science. Older adults have less neuroplasticity than younger ones.
If you think you're going to overhaul your tennis game after age 50, keep dreaming.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Good pro's always prorate when the clinic ends early (rain etc).

Maybe not at @sureshs place though, business men in shorts at his club.

Not sure what you are saying. My club is a public non-profit operating on behalf of P&R with annual fees less than 300 bucks and lots of blue collar members.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
It's science. Older adults have less neuroplasticity than younger ones.
If you think you're going to overhaul your tennis game after age 50, keep dreaming.
So you are a theoretical scientist rather than an empirical one? Meaning you've not actually researched this through any reasonable sample size and just presumed it to be so? I must say I find this FUN FUN FUN.
 

E46luver

Professional
I gave this some more thought.

An isolated day, no coach would yell at a student like this.
Anyone can have a bad tennis day.
A tennis coach knows this.
Coach also knew Fire was injured for 8 months.

I think coach wanted him out of this group before this day,
or one of the players complained in the past.

This final day was just the last straw.

If the coach already wanted Fire out,
he seems to lack the communication skills
to just tell Fire that his level was not up to par with this particular group.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I gave this some more thought.

An isolated day, no coach would yell at a student like this.
Anyone can have a bad tennis day.
A tennis coach knows this.
Coach also knew Fire was injured for 8 months.

I think coach wanted him out of this group before this day,
or one of the players complained in the past.

This final day was just the last straw.

If the coach already wanted Fire out,
he seems to lack the communication skills
to just tell Fire that his level was not up to par with this particular group.

2 of the guys in the group are pretty nice and they said its rly nice we trained again and im coming to train again, the 1 other guy could have said something, hes a bit of a weirdo, he is the best in the group but a weirdo and quiet all the time and also thinks hes a big shot, so I wouldn't put it past him.
 

E46luver

Professional
Just arrange hitting sessions with the 2 guys, and forget the clinic.
Adults like you who are motivated to learn and improve are highly desirable tennis partners.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
It's science. Older adults have less neuroplasticity than younger ones.
If you think you're going to overhaul your tennis game after age 50, keep dreaming.
I disagree with the last sentence. I used the opportunity with Covid-19 schedule flexibility to overhaul my forehand. I experimented with a dramatic change in racquet specs (going from shortened frames to extended frames) to force the overhauled technique, and resisted the urge to pack my old-spec shorty frames with me in my car for the last month (packing only xl frames) to make sure the muscle memory with my new forehand technique took hold.
 
It's science. Older adults have less neuroplasticity than younger ones.
If you think you're going to overhaul your tennis game after age 50, keep dreaming.
You've demonstrated YOU have no understanding what "science" is nor the nature of "neuroplasticity"--and I'm not going to waste any keystrokes educating you--"google is your friend" as they say, educate yourself. I will give you a hint on "neuroplasticity" : see Norman Doidge. I just post to rebut your superficially persuasive words--there's some of your science.
 

saiclone

New User
It's science. Older adults have less neuroplasticity than younger ones.
If you think you're going to overhaul your tennis game after age 50, keep dreaming.
"Less" and "none" aren't the same thing. There are records of concert pianists that didn't stay playing till after the age of 50.


Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 

E46luver

Professional
The other unspoken hurdle for anyone over age 50 trying to correct strokes is that a 50 year body old can't train 6 days a week, like how Juniors play 6 days a week to develop their strokes. Couple this with declining neuroplastcity and you have the reality that few over age 50 ever meaningfully corrects their strokes. So yea, the claim that you have 50 years to develop strokes is misleading. In the real world, for most people, the window of legitimate tennis progression closes somewhere in your 30s or 40s, based on health, time, and budget.
 
Last edited:

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
The other unspoken hurdle for anyone over age 50 trying to correct strokes is that a 50 year body old can't train 6 days a week, like how Juniors play 6 days a week to develop their strokes. Couple this with declining neuroplastcity and you have the reality that few over age 50 ever meaningfully corrects their strokes. So yea, the claim that you have 50 years to develop strokes is misleading. In the real world, for most people, the window of legitimate tennis progression closes somewhere in your 30s or 40s, based on health, time, and budget.
Yes. It is true that the older body requires a different training schedule than a junior one.

My body was able to handle 2.5h sessions 3x per week after ramping up to that. But I broke my rhythm and overplayed last week when new potential hitting partners started emerging. This included dumbly agreeing to play a second time in same day, which meant 4h of singles. The result of exceeding my serve pitch count was a tweaked right lower back. When I was a junior, playing 2 singles matches plus 2 doubles matches in same tournament in one day was not a big deal.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
The other unspoken hurdle for anyone over age 50 trying to correct strokes is that a 50 year body old can't train 6 days a week, like how Juniors play 6 days a week to develop their strokes. Couple this with declining neuroplastcity and you have the reality that few over age 50 ever meaningfully corrects their strokes. So yea, the claim that you have 50 years to develop strokes is misleading. In the real world, for most people, the window of legitimate tennis progression closes somewhere in your 30s or 40s, based on health, time, and budget.
I am 50 next year and every time I need any motivation to improve or before an important match I am going to read this and some of your other age related posts. Never felt so much desire to win. Thank you - keep the age related advice coming.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 

bitcoinoperated

Hall of Fame
Chit behavior from the coach. Anyone coming back from injury/layoff needs confidence building even at ATP level so shaming them in front of other people is totally counterproductive. This is even more true in a sport like tennis where once doubts creep in mentally you fall to pieces.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
If the story is true then the coach is correct. You meander around and lose focus. Look at your post, wasted two paragraphs before getting to the point.
 

3loudboys

G.O.A.T.
Coach still sounds like an egocentric jackass after reading this again. No class.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 

zaph

Professional
The coach is an idiot, how he gets business is beyond me. In the UK we do have problems with people turning up to coaching playing sessions, who are not the appropriate level for the group. Sometimes it is people who are at a lower level than the group but it can be the other way round. Sometimes high level players like to turn up to low level sessions to show off. This is an issue that should be handled privately.
 

Happi

Hall of Fame
@FiReFTW I am working with a high level coach with a proven track record of national champions. In our group we are players from UTR 7 to 11 (I guess that is about 4.0 to 5.5), so quite a huge gap there. I asked my coach about this problem of having different levels on a team, and he said that it is absolutely no problems at all, he will feed the ball in a certain way in drills so that everyone gets pushed to their limits. Also point drills, can be made so that you only cover half the court, and the better player covers the whole court. Lots of things can be done to equal the levels of the players.

I guess your coach is just an $ss and not willing to take on the challenge of working with different level players in a group.

Cheers, H
 
Last edited:
Top