Need someone to review my Ground Strokes! [Video]

Maddie

New User
Hi! I'm an 11th grader on Girl's Varsity Tennis (2nd or 3rd singles). Would like some advice on my ground strokes.


Some things I noticed was:
  • My forehand is a bit inconsistent- moved from Western to Eastern FH pretty recently.
  • My backhand is weak / I can't drive my backhand well.

Would love to have some advice on how to fix these things.
And also would love some advice on how I can bring my groundies or my game on a whole nother level. Lately I feel like I have been plateauing.. :(:(
I just want to be able to hit it super strong, with good technique, godly aim.. consistently. Ughh!!

Basically I want to improve a crap ton this year.. starting with my groundstrokes. Maybe win me individuals state (I wish).

Thanks!! Appreciate all replies!
 
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You have a pretty decent game. But from what I see you probaby win with consistency overt everything else.

You need to develop more attacking penetrating shots.

On you forehand I would work on your coil more. You seem to have a very linear forehand. You need to work on using your body more by turning back then turning through.

Your backhand stroke looks better but you often wait on the ball and seem to be hitting it at shoulder height or higher. This seems to cause you to hit those looping backhands.

Over all from both sides you need to drive through with your body more by coiling then un coiling. You also need to attack the ball on the rise and more in front of you. You need to control the ball and not let it control you
 
You could drop the racquet head below the ball more on your fh. On almost all of your fh strokes the racquet head is going pretty much straight towards and through the ball. That's a nice shot but if you don't hit it perfect your going to dump them in the net which is what you were doing. Relax your forearm a little to give the racquet a chance to naturally dip below the ball on approach. . This will give you more spin, consistency and margin for error. You can also try tilting your right shoulder downwards a little so that it is a little lower than your left shoulder to help get under the ball more.
 
You have a pretty decent game. But from what I see you probaby win with consistency overt everything else.

You need to develop more attacking penetrating shots.

On you forehand I would work on your coil more. You seem to have a very linear forehand. You need to work on using your body more by turning back then turning through.

Your backhand stroke looks better but you often wait on the ball and seem to be hitting it at shoulder height or higher. This seems to cause you to hit those looping backhands.

Over all from both sides you need to drive through with your body more by coiling then un coiling. You also need to attack the ball on the rise and more in front of you. You need to control the ball and not let it control you

Thank you so much for your feedback!
You're spot on about the consistency!! I usually do win games just be rallying it out. Wish I could develop those monster shots!

Question- what exactly do you mean by coiling? Like loading up strong?
 
You could drop the racquet head below the ball more on your fh. On almost all of your fh strokes the racquet head is going pretty much straight towards and through the ball. That's a nice shot but if you don't hit it perfect your going to dump them in the net which is what you were doing. Relax your forearm a little to give the racquet a chance to naturally dip below the ball on approach. . This will give you more spin, consistency and margin for error. You can also try tilting your right shoulder downwards a little so that it is a little lower than your left shoulder to help get under the ball more.

Today during drills I noticed a bunch of random balls (from my forehand) were getting into the net.. Now I know see why... ;). One concern I have about having a more loopy swing is that my stroke would end up looking like my BH (loopy, high-ish, spinny, consistent... but not aggressive).
 
You could always just make a tiny bit more loopy... that's better than 17 unforced errors in the net. Your swing looks good though.
Maybe try the shoulder thing. Here's an image of Murray. I wouldn't call his shots 'loopy'. In fact I'd say his shots have a similar trajectory as yours.
Look at his shoulder tilt here and compare it to yours.

Andy_Murray_Forehand_Wimby.jpg
 
If you want to have extra power on your forehand then, I don't think you're going to get it with that short take back. it's just not enough to get the racket acceleration necessary to explode at contact. It would require an awful lot of strenght frome your legs and core to hit big with such a shortened take back.
 
You could always just make a tiny bit more loopy... that's better than 17 unforced errors in the net. Your swing looks good though.
Maybe try the shoulder thing. Here's an image of Murray. I wouldn't call his shots 'loopy'. In fact I'd say his shots have a similar trajectory as yours.
Look at his shoulder tilt here and compare it to yours.

Andy_Murray_Forehand_Wimby.jpg
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that this evening! I'll let you know how it goes
 
If you want to have extra power on your forehand then, I don't think you're going to get it with that short take back. it's just not enough to get the racket acceleration necessary to explode at contact. It would require an awful lot of strenght frome your legs and core to hit big with such a shortened take back.

Thanks for the advice.
I hope I don't end up over hitting with all this yummy extra power.
 
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It doesn't appear that you're using your hips and legs to generate power on your forehand, they are kind of involved, but they are not leading the action, it's like an after-thought. There should be some separation of the rotation angles of your hips and shoulders, from what I can see, it looks like your whole torso is moving as one unit...and late. It kind of looks like you're letting your arm do too much of the work, as if you want your elbow to snap through and deliver power, also you seem to be recovering before you've finished your stroke completely.
 
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My backhand is weak / I can't drive my backhand well.
From what I see in the video, it's a contact point and confidence issue. You step back about 3 feet as soon as the ball machine starts feeding to your BH side, hitting the ball over your shoulder line. You can't drive well from that position: the combo of taking the ball over the shoulder and far behind the baseline forces weak replies out of your BH side. Just get closer to the baseline, find your ideal contact zone (usually between the hips and the shoulder line) and drive through it with your shoulders and legs. Your body posture at contact needs to be rock solid so that you're not pushed back as you strike.
Even if you make a UE or FE, having a strong position at contact will give the cue to your opponent that she can't simply hope to push you back by hitting loopy balls to your BH side. Then you can dial in the pace and spin not to make errors. Don't hesitate to step if with a neutral or closed stance even if the ball comes fast or loopy to you.

On a side note, I wonder why you didn't go to Semi-Western FH (or Extreme Eastern) instead of Eastern FH. Steep change, so I won't comment on it.
 
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You have good strokes. For example of topspin fh that has good balance of spin and power, watch you tube of Svetlana Kuznetsova. Notice how she bends the knees, drives the shot with her back hip rotating foreward, and how she extends out through contact. She gets her racket head below contact and swings upward but she still hits through the ball. See if you can get the feel of loading weight into legs and using leg lift and hip rotation to drive the power into the stroke. Look for video of her with title below on YouTube. She has great spin for control and hits a heavy ball

Svetlana Kuznetsova | Forehand and Backhand #1 | Western & Southern Open 2014
 
Forehand, use a stronger grip, then swing harder. You float too many shots.
Backhand, lean forwards towards the opponent, so you keep the shots lower.
 
OP,

IMO, your strokes' weaknesses are very subtle and difficult and beyond the capability of most people in this place to troubleshoot. For instance I don't know why you don't accelerate hard your backhand swing. Lack of balance, small errors somewhere?

For FH, you're keeping the racket too low. There's virtually no racket drop on the takeback, backswing. To me, that affects power. But then there are pro's (Gasquet?) who don't do racket drop!
 
Tentative swings lead to floaters and weak shots.
Against a ball machine, swing with 90% effort, going for your shots, and going for specific targets DTL or CC, but never never up the middle.
You are what you practice. If you practice tentative, you will play tentative.
 
I agree that your fh takeback is pretty short, robbing you of power. Another thing on the forehand is court positioning. If you want to learn to be a bit more offensive, especially when you have the chance, you have to get closer to the baseline. This alone will give you more offensive strokes, even without changing your technique and will suit your short takeback.

Most of your fh shots are happening very far from your baseline, you could easily take them right from the baseline on my opinion since those balls are not really powerful enough to justify staying far back constantly.

If you are so far back and try to hit more offensive you better hit really hard and your takeback is just to short for this. In general it is very hard to be more offensive from this position, even if you could it harder.

With your current strokes you simply can't be really offensive that far back, your shot is lacking penetration and you hit them to short for that. That's more tactics, but I think you would benefit greatly from practising taking balls early.

You have nice technique, though, so I am sure you can improve quite a bit on that.
 
I can see why you are struggling with that backhand. Keep in mind that your power (especially has a female player) has to come from a weight shift and/or rotation of the hips. You don't have either because:

1) you are way late to prepare and, consequently, have a contact point that is too far behind your body. This means that your backhand is mostly an awkward wrist flick to block back the ball. Prepare earlier and start swinging at the ball earlier so you can get contact out front. Strive to have the racket back and ready before the ball goes across the net/bounces. When you are practicing, freeze the racket at contact so you can see your contact point. Also, aim cross court as much as possible (this forces you to hit in front more - people who are always late struggle to hit cross court). Also, when you are practicing with a ball machine, set up so you have to step forward and into the ball, which further encourages hitting in front of your body.

2) your feet are too closed on most of the backhands (left foot is behind the right foot). This closed stance is okay on occasions (e.g., you are stepping into a short ball and driving it down the line), but makes it really hard to drive the ball cross court because your hips are more than closed (Your feet are lined up toward the left net post when you are trying to hit crosscourt). Even if you are really old school, you want your feet to line up with the direction of the shot (e.g., toward the right net post) so you can step into the shot, and if you are more modern, your feet line up with the base line so you can rotate the hips and shift weight left-to-right (as a righty) during the BH shot.
 
tip on how to practice... (tips above are plenty).
since you know where the ball is gonna go, after warming up, use that opportunity to:
* do a bucket where you're just hitting the ball as hard as you can (throw your entire body into it - video, and see where technique breaks down)... in general you look like you're guiding the racquet vs. attacking the contact... focus on increasing your racquet head speed while still maintaining balance and composure (without fear of a partner getting mad that you're hitting the back fence on every ball)
* do a bucket where you're stretching your recovery distance (eg. aim the ball machine in the corners, and see how far you can recover (at or past the center hash mark) and come back and still hit the ball),.. likely need to adjust the ball frequency and speed.. but generally a good drill
* do a bucket where you're hitting everything on the rise (or even out of the air)... forces you to make your prep faster, and your stroke more compact, and improves footwork and anticipation
* alternate hitting dtl and cc
etc...
 
Good looking swings, and it looks like you have good fundamentals..
On the backhand, keep your right arm more straight in your backswing and throughout the swing, your left arm can be slightly bent. After contact, the right arm will bend, and left arm should straighten out...By having both arms bent, you are sort of arming it without getting that quick snap and acceleration through out the contact. Also, you could rotate your hips into the shot more. To ensure this, your rear leg should come around after follow through (a lot quicker and more aggressive than what you do now, and your stance should be wide when this happens).

On the forehand, I suggest you establish a little more wide base. Right now, it's a little more wide than your shoulder width. When your base is narrow, you cannot maintain balance as you swing into the shot.
 
Ball machine is feeding Nadal type of returns.
Not a good basis for us to give you pointers especially the target plan is to attack.
Get another video of a regular rally with a partner.
 
It doesn't appear that you're using your hips and legs to generate power on your forehand, they are kind of involved, but they are not leading the action, it's like an after-thought. There should be some separation of the rotation angles of your hips and shoulders, from what I can see, it looks like your whole torso is moving as one unit...and late. It kind of looks like you're letting your arm do too much of the work, as if you want your elbow to snap through and deliver power, also you seem to be recovering before you've finished your stroke completely.

I see what you mean! I want to get this fixed ASAP. If I have this in line, I feel like my game would be so much better. I'd really have the technique down and know how to derive my power.
I've had a coach comment on this same torso/hip twist issue too.. I'm supposed to drive my hips/legs first, then drive my arms/shoulders, right?
I definitely do agree with this over-arm use. Sometimes my arms get sore. Really, my legs/hips should be the ones getting sore.

Thanks for your feedback!! Really eye-opening for me!

From what I see in the video, it's a contact point and confidence issue. You step back about 3 feet as soon as the ball machine starts feeding to your BH side, hitting the ball over your shoulder line. You can't drive well from that position: the combo of taking the ball over the shoulder and far behind the baseline forces weak replies out of your BH side. Just get closer to the baseline, find your ideal contact zone (usually between the hips and the shoulder line) and drive through it with your shoulders and legs. Your body posture at contact needs to be rock solid so that you're not pushed back as you strike.
Even if you make a UE or FE, having a strong position at contact will give the cue to your opponent that she can't simply hope to push you back by hitting loopy balls to your BH side. Then you can dial in the pace and spin not to make errors. Don't hesitate to step if with a neutral or closed stance even if the ball comes fast or loopy to you.

On a side note, I wonder why you didn't go to Semi-Western FH (or Extreme Eastern) instead of Eastern FH. Steep change, so I won't comment on it.

OMG!! Yea I have been having a tough time with these on the rise balls. A couple lessons before I worked on on-the-rise with my coach. I ended up short-hopping balls or hitting balls weakly up.
You're definitely right, I need to work on them so hard. Going to go hit me some on-the-rise balls so I can be more aggressive and confident during matches later this week.
I'm going to try to drive balls waste level-ish w/ my hips/legs/shoulders (not arms).

Thanks for this moment of relevation!!

You have good strokes. For example of topspin fh that has good balance of spin and power, watch you tube of Svetlana Kuznetsova. Notice how she bends the knees, drives the shot with her back hip rotating foreward, and how she extends out through contact. She gets her racket head below contact and swings upward but she still hits through the ball. See if you can get the feel of loading weight into legs and using leg lift and hip rotation to drive the power into the stroke. Look for video of her with title below on YouTube. She has great spin for control and hits a heavy ball

Svetlana Kuznetsova | Forehand and Backhand #1 | Western & Southern Open 2014

WOW. Just watched the video and made me feel even more motivated.
I saw how her back hip for FH really drove the ball, but the back hip for BH didn't seem to do much. Most of her weight was on her front leg for BH.
Holy crap, yeah she loads up pretty solid. Doesn't even look like a HUGE loadup, but she still gets so much power and rotates her hip perfectly from it.
Also another thing I see is that she doesn't drop her racquet that much. However, I do see her swing forward/up and contact the ball----and the ball beams off hard and solidly.
I want to put these thing in my game soo bad now haha.
Thanks for sharing this video with me and offering your insight!


Forehand, use a stronger grip, then swing harder. You float too many shots.
Backhand, lean forwards towards the opponent, so you keep the shots lower.

No idea how you could see how hard I was gripping the racquet... but you're 100% right. I noticed my loose grip when I was playing yesterday. I think the forehand grip was kinda changing too between shots.
Partially I think it has something to do with the recent grip change (still feels a little weird when I hit FH). I always have to check to see if I'm still eastern or close to eastern.
Crap, I'll just try to keep a stronger hold on it and hope my grip doesn't change or soemething..
Thanks for your feedback!

OP,

IMO, your strokes' weaknesses are very subtle and difficult and beyond the capability of most people in this place to troubleshoot. For instance I don't know why you don't accelerate hard your backhand swing. Lack of balance, small errors somewhere?

For FH, you're keeping the racket too low. There's virtually no racket drop on the takeback, backswing. To me, that affects power. But then there are pro's (Gasquet?) who don't do racket drop!

I think I'm not accelerating too much in my backswing because my right arm isn't straight (would give me a bigger backswing), I need a little more open stance, I need to prepare more early, need a stronger grip, and I need to drive with my hips/legs and not my arms. Could also use a flatter swing for more direct power.
This is based on what I read, and I think it's very accurate in terms of what I need to work on for bH.

I tried a bigger racquet drop the day before, but the balls went flying..... Im going to keep working on it though and see if it's for the better or worse.

Tentative swings lead to floaters and weak shots.
Against a ball machine, swing with 90% effort, going for your shots, and going for specific targets DTL or CC, but never never up the middle.
You are what you practice. If you practice tentative, you will play tentative.

One thing for sure, I'm going to start playing a lot more harder against the ball machines, with more purpose. But one thing that annoys me is that when I start teeing away at the balls, I lose consistency. Should I just keep aiming purposely and hitting hard, regardless of missing? I want to be able to hit hard, with good technique, and consistent in the end. I just don't want to end up hitting hard, but missing many shots too.
Either way, this is a very helpful tip and I'll think of it when I practice.


I agree that your fh takeback is pretty short, robbing you of power. Another thing on the forehand is court positioning. If you want to learn to be a bit more offensive, especially when you have the chance, you have to get closer to the baseline. This alone will give you more offensive strokes, even without changing your technique and will suit your short takeback.

Most of your fh shots are happening very far from your baseline, you could easily take them right from the baseline on my opinion since those balls are not really powerful enough to justify staying far back constantly.

If you are so far back and try to hit more offensive you better hit really hard and your takeback is just to short for this. In general it is very hard to be more offensive from this position, even if you could it harder.

With your current strokes you simply can't be really offensive that far back, your shot is lacking penetration and you hit them to short for that. That's more tactics, but I think you would benefit greatly from practising taking balls early.

You have nice technique, though, so I am sure you can improve quite a bit on that.

Thanks for the advice!! Going to play more on the baseline and try hitting more on the rise in practice. I agree, I've seen really good players just take those balls I've been hitting right off the rise no problem. I'm going to practice more offensively and I'll watch my takeback as well. Hopefully my timing will adjust!!
Thanks again.
 
I can see why you are struggling with that backhand. Keep in mind that your power (especially has a female player) has to come from a weight shift and/or rotation of the hips. You don't have either because:

1) you are way late to prepare and, consequently, have a contact point that is too far behind your body. This means that your backhand is mostly an awkward wrist flick to block back the ball. Prepare earlier and start swinging at the ball earlier so you can get contact out front. Strive to have the racket back and ready before the ball goes across the net/bounces. When you are practicing, freeze the racket at contact so you can see your contact point. Also, aim cross court as much as possible (this forces you to hit in front more - people who are always late struggle to hit cross court). Also, when you are practicing with a ball machine, set up so you have to step forward and into the ball, which further encourages hitting in front of your body.

2) your feet are too closed on most of the backhands (left foot is behind the right foot). This closed stance is okay on occasions (e.g., you are stepping into a short ball and driving it down the line), but makes it really hard to drive the ball cross court because your hips are more than closed (Your feet are lined up toward the left net post when you are trying to hit crosscourt). Even if you are really old school, you want your feet to line up with the direction of the shot (e.g., toward the right net post) so you can step into the shot, and if you are more modern, your feet line up with the base line so you can rotate the hips and shift weight left-to-right (as a righty) during the BH shot.

Ahh.. sometimes when I try to hit more infront of my body, I miss-hit or awkwardly hit it with weird weight shifting..... or dunk it into the net. I am not sure what this means. However, I do agree with my late prepares and sometimes late contact points. Sometimes my backhand comes in too late and ends up brushing the ball up near shoulder height. I'm going to try and fix this with the "freeze the racket at contact" thing and hit cross court. I'll let you know how this goes.

Thank golly you pointed out the closed stance problem!!!! I definitely see that as an issue when I'm hitting BH. This is going to stick in my head and I'll remember it for the next time I hit! Thanks again, your feedback was very helpful!

tip on how to practice... (tips above are plenty).
since you know where the ball is gonna go, after warming up, use that opportunity to:
* do a bucket where you're just hitting the ball as hard as you can (throw your entire body into it - video, and see where technique breaks down)... in general you look like you're guiding the racquet vs. attacking the contact... focus on increasing your racquet head speed while still maintaining balance and composure (without fear of a partner getting mad that you're hitting the back fence on every ball)
* do a bucket where you're stretching your recovery distance (eg. aim the ball machine in the corners, and see how far you can recover (at or past the center hash mark) and come back and still hit the ball),.. likely need to adjust the ball frequency and speed.. but generally a good drill
* do a bucket where you're hitting everything on the rise (or even out of the air)... forces you to make your prep faster, and your stroke more compact, and improves footwork and anticipation
* alternate hitting dtl and cc
etc...

YESS! Thank you for this!!!
These drills would be super helpful to help develop these components to my game.
I can practice hip/weight rotation + hitting it hard + out in front + solid grip + on the rise + targets. And see what happens with a wider base and a little more racquet drop.

I was looking at http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/tennis-drills-for-when-you-are-alone.321782/
awhile ago to look for some things I could work on alone. But this little drill thing seems perfect, along with ball machining.
Thanks!!

Good looking swings, and it looks like you have good fundamentals..
On the backhand, keep your right arm more straight in your backswing and throughout the swing, your left arm can be slightly bent. After contact, the right arm will bend, and left arm should straighten out...By having both arms bent, you are sort of arming it without getting that quick snap and acceleration through out the contact. Also, you could rotate your hips into the shot more. To ensure this, your rear leg should come around after follow through (a lot quicker and more aggressive than what you do now, and your stance should be wide when this happens).

On the forehand, I suggest you establish a little more wide base. Right now, it's a little more wide than your shoulder width. When your base is narrow, you cannot maintain balance as you swing into the shot.

I did notice throughout the video my BH right arm wasn't straight at all. Gotta work on that.
A lot of people commented on more hip rotation so I'm gonna work more on that too. I might post another video to see if my hip rotation has improved, and I'll look to see my rear leg would come around more quicker.

Very helpful tips, thanks :)
 
You have now a ton of stuff to improve. I would say pick 2 things and focus on those first.

For example getting a bigger takeback while hitting earler will be a bit hard to learn in one go if not just counterproductive.


I would say try hitting early first, cause you will use a shorter takeback in those anyway. No one takes balls super early with a super huge takeback and your shorter takeback will make learning to hit early easier.

If you have time and standing a bit more back you can learn a bigger takeback easier aswell. The truth is that not every shot or situation requires a big takeback.

Have fun
 
Main thing I would say on the backhand is to try touching your chin with your right shoulder as soon as you splitstep/turn, keep that shoulder turned, then when you hit the ball, follow through and make sure you touch your left shoulder to your chin. I find this touch-touch drill helps me hit through the ball on my backhand. I think the consistency/power generation problem on the backhand is because the front shoulder is not fully turned all the time.

On the backhand, the other thing is you want full 180 degree rotation as you hit, with your left shoulder/hip/feet all coming through the shot. (hard when the ball is high and deep like this though).

I like how your right shoulder powers through on the forehand. I think you might be able to get more penetrating shots if you try and visualize hitting through with your body weight. For instance if you look at the forehand at 1:20-1:21, most of your body weight appears to transition from your right foot to your left foot, going parallel to the baseline rather than into the ball / towards your opponent.

I think as someone else mentioned - when the ball machine is feeding them that high and deep, you're not really in a good position to attack from so far behind the baseline and it would be better to practice hitting rolling deep topspin balls rather than low driving shots. Either that or practice standing your ground on the baseline and attacking anyway. Errors in the video may be partially due to trying to attack from so far back in the court and in a tricky situation. I can totally understand though --- ball machines can be a real drag to set up and hit with.

Hope this helps! You look like a great player!
 
I see what you mean! I want to get this fixed ASAP. If I have this in line, I feel like my game would be so much better. I'd really have the technique down and know how to derive my power.
I've had a coach comment on this same torso/hip twist issue too.. I'm supposed to drive my hips/legs first, then drive my arms/shoulders, right?
I definitely do agree with this over-arm use. Sometimes my arms get sore. Really, my legs/hips should be the ones getting sore.
Legs/hips then shoulders/arm, would be the sequence in order.
Legs first (load right leg), which will engage the hips next (when pushing from the ground up, with your right leg), then the shoulders (use your left arm to help with this), then the arm.
 
Hi Maddie,
I'm a tennis coach and have a couple nationally ranked 16s junior boys players and one girls nationally ranked 16s player that went deep in winter nationals. I would be hesitant to revamp or change your game. Usually I find developed players do not need to actually change anything. It is the subtle things that get results and wins. You seem to be hitting a good ball. I disagree your strokes are not penetrating. Your bh is a bit loopy but the ball machine was feeding you head high bhs so I cannot tell what it looks like on a waist high ball that most high school girls hit. Your fh seems a bit erratic but I will chalk that up to the grip change. Which I would not have done from Western to Eastern at this stage of your tennis.

This being said. Be very careful on trying to consciously use the "kinetic chain". This is a term people like to banter on about with no real experience in developing players. You already do it. Don't worry about it. How you achieve higher ball speed and accuracy will not be trying to apply the kinetic chain in a different way than what you already do. If I were to give you instruction if you were my student given your situation I would tell you this.

1) find the ideal contact point for your new eastern fh. Where does it feel like you hit the most penetrating and heavy ball?

2) burn that spot into your mind.

3) on every ball move to hit the fh there. At that exact spot. Vary the height and spin of your ball based on court position.

4) due to your grip change your racket face is sometimes open on the racket drop. Close it a bit.

Just doing this will advance your technical game.

Next you need to discuss with your coach where you are losing points. What patterns your opponents get's you into that you cannot get out of. What patterns can you run to hide your weaknesses best? This is where the real coaching begins. Not how much kinetic chain you are using. Best of luck.
 
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