Neither Nadal or Federer have 100% record vs Djokovic at their best tournamentS,,

[RS]

True. Federer is from a slightly older generation than Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. He was past his peak during the Big 4 era.

He was still in his prime at least for a chunk of it though. Or in good form or ranked high.

 

[tennisaddict]

So you ADMIT to his gooftroop generation!!!!

Sampras has to wipe and clean Fed's shoes if we are going to compare respective competition they both faced.

 

[King No1e]

He was still in his prime at least for a chunk of it though. Or in good form or ranked high.

True, but not quite 2004-07 world-dominating, unstoppable, served-a-marble-into-the-sky-and-now-we-call-it-the-moon Federer

 

[RS]

True, but not quite 2004-07 world-dominating, unstoppable, served-a-marble-into-the-sky-and-now-we-call-it-the-moon Federer

Not on consistent basis sure but he showed that level in a number of matches and tourneys from 2008-2012 and to a lesser extent after that.

 

[King No1e]

Not on consistent basis but he showed that level in a number of matches and tourneys from 2008-2012 and to a lesser extent after that.

Agreed. 2008-09 Fed was still very close to that form, and post-09 still dominated late season and showed flashes of brilliance like IW12, Cincy 12.

 

[SaintPetros]

Sampras has to wipe and clean Fed's shoes if we are going to compare respective competition they both faced.

From the bloody nose his competition gives Fraud!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

 

[Third Serve]

True. Federer is from a slightly older generation than Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. He was past his peak during the Big 4 era.

Depends on how you define the Big 4 era. If you mean that the Big 4 era started in 2008, then no, Fed indeed was at his prime for at least the two years succeeding it (and he was quite good in 2012). If you mean from 2011 or anything like that, then I'll have to say yes.

 

[King No1e]

Depends on how you define the Big 4 era. If you mean that the Big 4 era started in 2008, then no, Fed indeed was at his prime for at least the two years succeeding it (and he was quite good in 2012). If you mean from 2011 or anything like that, then I'll have to say yes.

I'm starting with 2010, when Federer's sole dominance over the tour ended. 2010-14.

 

[Backspin1183]

Kyrgios leads 2-0 . No sets lost.

Not even faced a break point in 2 full matches.

 

[OhYes]

Kyrgios leads 2-0 . No sets lost.

Bcs he shows up only when his chances are good.

 

[MichaelNadal]

True.

And Fed and Djokovic are not the same generation. Period. Fed’s generation has long since retired: Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzo, Baggy, Davy, Nalby, etc.

When you think of some of the people Fed (and early Nadal) played, it's amazing they are still out there. Seems like 3-4 generations have gone since 01-05.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

That's right, he leads the h2h despite being 1/6 years less experienced.

Awesome.

LOL. You're a meme.

 

[BeatlesFan]

True. Federer is from a slightly older generation than Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. He was past his peak during the Big 4 era.

Yes, 6 years older is from a "slightly older generation" in tennis.

I hope you're being a troll or facetious, because otherwise it's a cringe worthy remark.

 

[King No1e]

Yes, 6 years older is from a "slightly older generation" in tennis.

I hope you're being a troll or facetious, because otherwise it's a cringe worthy remark.

"Slightly" in the grand scheme of things. Connors and McEnroe are 7 years apart and were each other's top rivals for years.

 

[Genious at Work]

Federer vs Djokovic at Federer most successful 5+ tournaments
AO: 1-3
Dubai: 3-1
Hamburg/Madrid: 0-0
Halle: 0-0
Wimbledon: 1-3
Cincinnatti: 3-1
Us Open: 3-3
Basel: 1-1
WTF: 2-4

Nadal vs Djokovic
Monte Carlo: 2-2
Barcelona: 0-0
Rome: 3-3
Hamburg/Madrid: 3-1
RG: 6-1
Canada: 1-1

OTOH, Djokovic vs Nadal is 3-0(Miami), 2-0(AO) and only win at Wimbledon by Nadal was WO
or 2-0 vs Federer in Paris and 3-0 in Rome(Djoker won both 4 times,though). And 3-0 in Indian Wells + 1-0 in Miami.

What it means? I'm scared.

 

[Mike Sams]

Did you know that out of the entire population of 329.7 million people in the USA, only 0.4% follow tennis?

 

[ForumMember]

Federer vs Djokovic at Federer most successful 5+ tournaments
AO: 1-3
Dubai: 3-1
Hamburg/Madrid: 0-0
Halle: 0-0
Wimbledon: 1-3
Cincinnatti: 3-1
Us Open: 3-3
Basel: 1-1
WTF: 2-4

Nadal vs Djokovic
Monte Carlo: 2-2
Barcelona: 0-0
Rome: 3-3
Hamburg/Madrid: 3-1
RG: 6-1
Canada: 1-1

OTOH, Djokovic vs Nadal is 3-0(Miami), 2-0(AO) and only win at Wimbledon by Nadal was WO
or 2-0 vs Federer in Paris and 3-0 in Rome(Djoker won both 4 times,though). And 3-0 in Indian Wells + 1-0 in Miami.

I loved the way you shied away from mentioning Nadal Djokovic USO H2H.

 

[Lew II]

LOL. You're a meme.

In their meetings Federer had an higher average ranking than both Djokovic and Nadal.

Stats are stronger than your insults.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

In their meetings Federer had an higher average ranking than both Djokovic and Nadal.

Stats are stronger than your insults.

Highroad all you want, but this response is a complete non-sequitur. Your comment about the experience is akin to you parodying yourself.

As usual you throw out a stat with an assumed conclusion without actually opening up the can of worms that would elucidate just how little they actually say in a vacuum.

 

[lud]

I loved the way you shied away from mentioning Nadal Djokovic USO H2H.

Why?0p
I only mentioned 5+ win tournaments by Fed and Nadal. Nadal won Us Open 4 times. And 2-1 isn't really 100%

 

[Deleted member 744633]

On the contrary, Fed has become such a plate bearer to Novak at his best slam it's become something of a tradition

Agreed, yet it's sad to see that the Federer fans refuse to acknowledge Djokovic's superiority over Federer on grass because of Federer's age

 

[ForumMember]

Why?0p
I only mentioned 5+ win tournaments by Fed and Nadal. Nadal won Us Open 4 times. And 2-1 isn't really 100%

Okay. I had failed to notice that you included only 5+ tournament wins. My mistake.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

@SaintPetros

Somehow the Federer fans seem to think my suggestion that Djokovic is a superior grass player is somehow an insult to Federer. It's not.

Juan Pablo Montoya was my favorite Formula 1 driver but time and again Michael Schumacher spanked him in a straight race. It was tough to accept but a fact so I simply acknowledged that Schumacher was on a different level than Montoya. Likewise with Djokovic/Federer. Nothing personal there.

 

[KINGROGER]

Agreed, yet it's sad to see that the Federer fans refuse to acknowledge Djokovic's superiority over Federer on grass because of Federer's age

Djokovic is fortunate they’re not the same age, or he may only have 1 Wimbledon title.

Only Nadal can claim to have beaten Fed close to his best on grass.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Djokovic is fortunate they’re not the same age, or he may only have 1 Wimbledon title.

Only Nadal can claim to have beaten Fed close to his best on grass.

King ... this is where some objectivity is required. To make such a sweeping remark indicates you're detached from reality.

Djokovic is not some one-time Wimbledon wonder like Pat Cash or Richard Krajicek. He's a 5-time Wimbledon winner, an all time great. Considering that, the only thing we can say for certain is that it could have gone either way between Federer/Djokovic if they were the same age.

 

[ForehandRF]

@Sunny Ali You forget how good was Fed on grass in the 2003-2009 period.He made 6 finals in a row and he only lost once against Nadal 9-7 in the 5th set.To say that Djokovic is superior on grass only based on their meetings starting with 2014 is dishonest.Nadal had to deal with a better Federer on grass.It took a terrible choke from Fed for Djokovic to win this year, with Fed being almost 38, and if you believe that situations like this make Djokovic superior on grass, let me disagree with you.

No doubt that Djokovic has become a true ATG on grass and results speak from themselves, but you have to make a difference between a matchup and overall greatness on a surface, more so when the players are from different generations.Fed could have been retired by 2014 and you won't be singing the same tune now.

 

[KINGROGER]

King ... this is where some objectivity is required. To make such a sweeping remark indicates you're detached from reality.

Djokovic is not some one-time Wimbledon wonder like Pat Cash or Richard Krajicek. He's a 5-time Wimbledon winner, an all time great. Considering that, the only thing we can say for certain is that it could have gone either way between Federer/Djokovic if they were the same age.

True. I also don’t believe Federer played at the same level for 16 years straight since 2003. Djokovic is better than 2014- Fed on grass I agree (marginally though, as 2019 showed)

We don’t know how he would fare vs 00s Fed who won 50+ grass matches in a row and 5 straight. We only really have the 2012 match to go off where neither were at their absolute best.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

@Sunny Ali You forget how good was Fed on grass in the 2003-2009 period.He made 6 finals in a row and he only lost once against Nadal 9-7 in the 5th set.To say that Djokovic is superior on grass only based on their meetings starting with 2014 is dishonest.Nadal had to deal with a better Federer on grass.It took a terrible choke from Fed for Djokovic to win this year, with Fed being almost 38, and if you believe that situations like this make Djokovic superior on grass, let me disagree with you.

No doubt that Djokovic has become a true ATG on grass and results speak from themselves, but you have to make a difference between a matchup and overall greatness on a surface, more so when the players are from different generations.Fed could have been retired by 2014 and you won't be singing the same tune now.

Forehand ... wonderful points all and I fully agree

If someone were to leave the possibility open that Djokovic could perhaps beat Federer 2003-2009, then I'd have no problem. I only object when someone makes a conclusive statement that he would have no chance. We just have no way of knowing, so a remark like that will be challenged.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

True. I also don’t believe Federer played at the same level for 16 years straight since 2003. Djokovic is better than 2014- Fed on grass I agree (marginally though, as 2019 showed)

We don’t know how he would fare vs 00s Fed who won 50+ grass matches in a row and 5 straight. We only really have the 2012 match to go off where neither were at their absolute best.

King ... Great post and fully agreed

I'd be stupid not to admit that Federer on grass 2003-2009 would have posed a very different and difficult challenge to Djokovic than the versions we've seen since 2014.

 

[SaintPetros]

King ... Great post and fully agreed

I'd be stupid not to admit that Federer on grass 2003-2009 would have posed a very different and difficult challenge to Djokovic than the versions we've seen since 2014.

Gotta remember he'd be finding Fed's backhand like a guided missile and since it's a weaker shot unused to pummeling Fed's only recourse is to hit inside out forehands leaving the line open which Djokovic mercilessly attacks, or hit chop slices which is even worse. This Fed also has a less aggressive serve and overall mindset and much weaker volleys, so life is gonna be tough playing Novak even in the glory days

 

[SaintPetros]

@Sunny Ali You forget how good was Fed on grass in the 2003-2009 period.He made 6 finals in a row and he only lost once against Nadal 9-7 in the 5th set.To say that Djokovic is superior on grass only based on their meetings starting with 2014 is dishonest.Nadal had to deal with a better Federer on grass.It took a terrible choke from Fed for Djokovic to win this year, with Fed being almost 38, and if you believe that situations like this make Djokovic superior on grass, let me disagree with you.

No doubt that Djokovic has become a true ATG on grass and results speak from themselves, but you have to make a difference between a matchup and overall greatness on a surface, more so when the players are from different generations.Fed could have been retired by 2014 and you won't be singing the same tune now.

Novak will also pose a much tougher challenge to RF than the goobers he played to win majority of his titles

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Gotta remember he'd be finding Fed's backhand like a guided missile and since it's a weaker shot unused to pummeling Fed's only recourse is to hit inside out forehands leaving the line open which Djokovic mercilessly attacks, or hit chop slices which is even worse. This Fed also has a less aggressive serve and overall mindset and much weaker volleys, so life is gonna be tough playing Novak even in the glory days

Petros ... superb point which seems to be overlooked in most discussions about prime-Fed. I fully agree that it's exactly what Djokovic would do

 

[mike danny]

11 months, 13 days apart. They're practically the same age. It's utter nonsense to say Nadal was from Federer's generation and that Djokovic beat him because he was younger.
Nadal and Djokovic are in the same generation. Period.

Yes, but Nadal was already on 9 slams before Djokovic truly blossomed.

Same generation, but Nadal peaked much earlier than Djokovic.

He shared a rivalry with Federer way before he did so with Djokovic.

 

[KINGROGER]

Gotta remember he'd be finding Fed's backhand like a guided missile and since it's a weaker shot unused to pummeling Fed's only recourse is to hit inside out forehands leaving the line open which Djokovic mercilessly attacks, or hit chop slices which is even worse. This Fed also has a less aggressive serve and overall mindset and much weaker volleys, so life is gonna be tough playing Novak even in the glory days

This is what to expect imo.

 

[mike danny]

I'm starting with 2010, when Federer's sole dominance over the tour ended. 2010-14.

Still no Big 4 era as Djokovic was trash in 2010.

 

[mike danny]

@Sunny Ali You forget how good was Fed on grass in the 2003-2009 period.He made 6 finals in a row and he only lost once against Nadal 9-7 in the 5th set.To say that Djokovic is superior on grass only based on their meetings starting with 2014 is dishonest.Nadal had to deal with a better Federer on grass.It took a terrible choke from Fed for Djokovic to win this year, with Fed being almost 38, and if you believe that situations like this make Djokovic superior on grass, let me disagree with you.

No doubt that Djokovic has become a true ATG on grass and results speak from themselves, but you have to make a difference between a matchup and overall greatness on a surface, more so when the players are from different generations.Fed could have been retired by 2014 and you won't be singing the same tune now.

Djokovic's dominance is so praised because Fed didn't retire after 2012.

Fed's grass legacy has still taken an irredeamable hit though.

 

[SaintPetros]

This is what to expect imo.

If Fed upgraded his game and mindset to this relatively super aggressive version, sure its possible, especially since this Fed never came into net. But 04-09 Fed is dead LOL

 

[ForehandRF]

Djokovic's dominance is so praised because Fed didn't retire after 2012.

Fed's grass legacy has still taken an irredeamable hit though.

I would have preferred seeing Fed being clearly outplayed, straight setted, than seen him losing this way.The question is, we will remember the Wimbledon final over the years just like we remember 2011USO now ? I would say that 2011 USO is not looking as bad as before, but I think this won't be the case when we'll talk about Wimbledon 2019.

 

[SaintPetros]

I would have preferred seeing Fed being clearly outplayed, straight setted, than seen him losing this way.The question is, we will remember the Wimbledon final over the years just like we remember 2011USO now ? I would say that 2011 USO is not looking as bad as before, but I think this won't be the case when we'll talk about Wimbledon 2019.

Ya, it's harder to deny he was playing smokin' good tennis as it happened. A straight setting would make life easier in this regard.

 

[Ovie]

Still no Big 4 era as Djokovic was trash in 2010.

As Federer fans will say, only Matters, so he managed to thrash out Federer in their only slam meeting at Us open that year

 

[mike danny]

As Federer fans will say, only Matters, so he managed to thrash out Federer in their only slam meeting at Us open that year

He didn't trash him. Fed lost because his form was poor after 2010 AO.

Djoko was bad in 2010. Everyone but Nadal fanatics admit this.

 

[heninfan99]

...and Courier has a winning h2h over Agassi so he's better than Agassi

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Djokovic's dominance is so praised because Fed didn't retire after 2012.

Fed's grass legacy has still taken an irredeamable hit though.

That's exactly my point.

 

[AceSalvo]

32+ Agassi vs Fed: 0 - 8
32+ Fed vs Djoko: 6 - 14

Sampras would have shared a similar fate but was very clever to take the "exit door". It's a very common thing that happens to aging ATG's.

 

[ForehandRF]

32+ Agassi vs Fed: 0 - 8
32+ Fed vs Djoko: 6 - 14

Sampras would have shared a similar fate but was very clever to take the "exit door". It's a very common thing that happens to aging ATG's.

Connors vs Lendl is also a good example

 

[AceSalvo]

Connors vs Lendl is also a good example

Let's just exclude these "example"(s) so that they don't get in the way of OP's conclusion whatever it may be.