Netflix being sued over “Cleopatra”

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Apparently suing them over rewriting and stealing Egyptian history.

Why do producers/directors want to make a historically white (Greek Macedonian) figure black? Not only is this offensive to Egyptians and Greeks/Macedonians (depending on where you stand on that debate), it’s most offensive to actual Africans and black people. Is Netflix that lazy that they can’t and won’t research real historical black leaders and make documentaries about them?

Why not Mansa Musa? One of the most favorite leaders in world history who apparently is the richest man of all times. That would’ve been awesome.
 

Apparently suing them over rewriting and stealing Egyptian history.

Why do producers/directors want to make a historically white (Greek Macedonian) figure black? Not only is this offensive to Egyptians and Greeks/Macedonians (depending on where you stand on that debate), it’s most offensive to actual Africans and black people. Is Netflix that lazy that they can’t and won’t research real historical black leaders and make documentaries about them?

Why not Mansa Musa? One of the most favorite leaders in world history who apparently is the richest man of all times. That would’ve been awesome.
Big if true.
 
This is all BS. If you listen to the movies as your source of historical information, anyone would think that ancient Romans spoke with a British accent. Just another light skinned snowflake.
I'm sure high class Roman Latin sounded just as douchey then as RP English does now.
 
With the development of AI, it should soon be possible for each individual to
alter the features of movie characters to suit their mood, whim or humor.
They could even play the main character, themselves.
 
This is all BS. If you listen to the movies as your source of historical information, anyone would think that ancient Romans spoke with a British accent. Just another light skinned snowflake.
movies are a powerful medium. they teach you everything about a culture. even learn language. why do you think cleopatra is black in the first place
 
Unlikely the suit will go anywhere, but casting a black woman does play to crackpots who rewrite history to fit specific racial theories.

Hamilton is also hilarious. A wit once remarked that it would be nice if we had some readily available image of Hamilton, like something a lot of people carry around with them, so we'd know what he looked like. There are actually young people today who because of the play don't realize that Hamilton was the whitest of white guys. They also don't know that Hamilton was a royalist who wanted to created a royal ruling class in America.
 
movies are a powerful medium. they teach you everything about a culture. even learn language. why do you think cleopatra is black in the first place
I never met her myself, though while I understand disagreement, a lawsuit makes no sense to me. What are the damages?
 
I saw a play at a local college where the parts seemed to be randomly
assigned- race, gender, age, whatever. Can't remember title. I do recall wondering
if they were trying to make a point, or if they didn't have enough actors.
 
I don't mind fictional characters being race and gender swapped, but historical figures is a different matter, and IMO they should be treated in a less cavalier way.
I agree. Someone likened this to making James Bond black. But it’s completely different. James Bond is a fictional character whose race, background, ethnicity etc isn’t explicitly defined. They can just retcon or create a new Bond at whim.

The late Great Stan Lee made a point that Spider-Man was such a great character because they were masked, so any kid regardless of their race or gender could identify and act like Spider-Man. That’s the great thing about fiction. It’s fiction.

Cleopatra is not fiction. She was a real historical figure who wasn’t black. And shouldn’t be portrayed as such.
 
This is all BS. If you listen to the movies as your source of historical information, anyone would think that ancient Romans spoke with a British accent. Just another light skinned snowflake.

Might be the result of Hollywood always casting British actors as ancient Italians. Would make a refreshing change to see Italian actors portraying ancient Britons. :cool:
 
I agree. Someone likened this to making James Bond black. But it’s completely different. James Bond is a fictional character whose race, background, ethnicity etc isn’t explicitly defined. They can just retcon or create a new Bond at whim.

The late Great Stan Lee made a point that Spider-Man was such a great character because they were masked, so any kid regardless of their race or gender could identify and act like Spider-Man. That’s the great thing about fiction. It’s fiction.

Cleopatra is not fiction. She was a real historical figure who wasn’t black. And shouldn’t be portrayed as such.

She certainly wasn't Negro but according to some sources her mother who is not known may have been a darker skinned Egyptian.
 
She certainly wasn't Negro but according to some sources her mother who is not known may have been a darker skinned Egyptian.

Was Cleopatra Black? A New Netflix Series Is Reviving an Old Controversy​

BY ARMANI SYED
APRIL 20, 2023 2:37 PM EDT

Excerpt:

What do we know about her ancestry?​

The Ptolemy dynasty descended from Greek Macedonian roots and ruled ancient Egypt during its Hellenistic era, with marriages typically occurring within the family. The dynasty was established when Alexander the Great conquered Egypt in 323 B.C.

The part of Cleopatra’s bloodline that remains a mystery is that of her mother and paternal grandmother. However, many experts say there is no evidence to suggest either woman was Black.

As Duane W. Roller, a professor emeritus of Classics at Ohio State University, wrote for the Oxford University Press blog in 2010, “Assuming, however, that Cleopatra’s grandmother was not from the traditional Macedonian Greek stem, the question arises as to just what she was. Sources suggest that if she was not Macedonian, she was probably Egyptian. So by the time of Cleopatra’s grandparents, there may have been an Egyptian element.”

“She could have been Greek, Macedonian, Egyptian, and Roman all at the same time,” Kennedy says. She notes that the gaps on Cleopatra’s family tree leave room for people to misinterpret indigenous Egyptian identity as Black.

“The reality is that one can say that there were ancient Egyptians we would today consider ‘Black’ in so far as they were non-Arab, non-Phoenician, Africans,” Kennedy says. She notes that references to Black-skinned Egyptians are present in ancient texts, but there is a gendered element to this: “Ideologically, women were associated with pale or ‘white’ skin and men with dark or ‘black’ skin. This is a gender division, not ethnic or modern bio-racial.”

Kennedy adds that visual representations of Cleopatra that more closely resembled Egyptian rulers have been historically overlooked in favor of her likeness on coinage, which is more closely aligned with standard Greek iconography.

“These objects are for different audiences and reflect different aspects of Cleopatra’s identity. We should not separate them, but in our modern search for singular identities, we restrict Cleopatra in ways that she was not restricted to in her own life,” Kennedy says.

The messy debate over Cleopatra’s ‘race’​

Racial classifications as we recognize them today are largely a product of 17th and 18th century Western anthropological thought, particularly during the European Enlightenment.

The publication of the book Systema Naturæ in 1735 saw Swedish naturalist Carl Linnaeus classify humankind into four distinct “varieties.” Race began as a human-coined shorthand to categorize groups based on continent and skin color.

As such, these classifications were created far too late to accurately apply to ancient civilizations. “There is a tendency in the modern world to fixate on famous figures of the past who represent civilizations,” Kennedy says. She adds there will always be groups who want to flatten and claim Cleopatra, one way or the other, to suit their narrative.

But, Kennedy says, asking if Cleopatra was Black, white, or another race is the wrong question because “it suggests that these are universal and not historically contingent categories.”

She adds: “It means that we continue to have the same conversations decade after decade instead of actually learning more about how the ancient world considered its own identities.”
https://time.com/6273435/cleopatra-race-debate-netflix/
 
When "Miss Saigon" was preparing to open on Broadway a few decades ago, the producers wanted Jonathan Pryce to play the role of a central character described as "Eurasian." The wokes at Actors Equity protested, oddly insisting that a Eurasian has to be played by an Asian, not a European, and threatened to boycott the show. The producers stood firm and said that if Equity was going to boycott, they would simply cancel the show and then nobody would have a role, and a salary. Equity blinked, and said Mr. Pryce will be just fine.
 
Might be the result of Hollywood always casting British actors as ancient Italians. Would make a refreshing change to see Italian actors portraying ancient Britons. :cool:
The Brits were not too pleased when Juliette Binoche was chosen to star in Wuthering Heights!
 
When "Miss Saigon" was preparing to open on Broadway a few decades ago, the producers wanted Jonathan Pryce to play the role of a central character described as "Eurasian." The wokes at Actors Equity protested, oddly insisting that a Eurasian has to be played by an Asian, not a European, and threatened to boycott the show. The producers stood firm and said that if Equity was going to boycott, they would simply cancel the show and then nobody would have a role, and a salary. Equity blinked, and said Mr. Pryce will be just fine.
I have no problem with folks having opinions and vocalizing them.

Lawsuits about these issues is where the line should be drawn, in my opinion.
 
Historical characters have to be accurate.

Can you have Jennifer Lopez / Rihanna playing the role of Queen Victoria ?

Historical facts have to be accurate, otherwise kids watching it will be misguided and shall be confused.
 
Historical characters have to be accurate.

Can you have Jennifer Lopez / Rihanna playing the role of Queen Victoria ?

Historical facts have to be accurate, otherwise kids watching it will be misguided and shall be confused.
who's going to play the ancient aliens when we make a movie about them?
 
who's going to play the ancient aliens when we make a movie about them?

Ancient Aliens show in itself is more captivating than any movie.

However there are films like "Day the Earth Stood Still" or "Arrival" that have good plots on how aliens contact for us could look like.
 
Ancient Aliens show in itself is more captivating than any movie.

However there are films like "Day the Earth Stood Still" or "Arrival" that have good plots on how aliens contact for us could look like.
yes, but should we eventually need to make a movie about our ancient alien overlords, which humans should play them. you know, to make sure it's historically authentic and all.
 
yes, but should we eventually need to make a movie about our ancient alien overlords, which humans should play them. you know, to make sure it's historically authentic and all.

That is a tricky subject. As per ancient aliens Moses was also an alien offspring, so I am not sure how one can depict that but surely Moses cannot be played by a chinese, right ? It has to be played by a Jew I guess since he has to look Jewish maybe... something like that I think so.
 
That is a tricky subject. As per ancient aliens Moses was also an alien offspring, so I am not sure how one can depict that but surely Moses cannot be played by a chinese, right ? It has to be played by a Jew I guess since he has to look Jewish maybe... something like that I think so.
so moses used secret alien powers to part the red sea? did he also use those powers to set the bush on fire and make the manna?
 
so moses used secret alien powers to part the red sea? did he also use those powers to set the bush on fire and make the manna?
It's interesting to study the bible stories. To understand what we know about the historical context. What the people were like at that time. And why those stories are the way they are.

Maybe in 3,000 years people will be doing the same with our cultural stories.
 

Apparently suing them over rewriting and stealing Egyptian history.

Why do producers/directors want to make a historically white (Greek Macedonian) figure black? Not only is this offensive to Egyptians and Greeks/Macedonians (depending on where you stand on that debate), it’s most offensive to actual Africans and black people. Is Netflix that lazy that they can’t and won’t research real historical black leaders and make documentaries about them?

Why not Mansa Musa? One of the most favorite leaders in world history who apparently is the richest man of all times. That would’ve been awesome.
How about suing US studios for depicting Jesus as White numerous times?
 
How about suing US studios for depicting Jesus as White numerous times?
It's just about appealing to your audience.

If the public wants Jesus to be black, brown, white or purple, the studios have no problem with any of that.

If there is a risk of lawsuits, that just needs to be built into the cost of the product. Nobody cares about getting sued.
 
Ancient Aliens is interesting for hearing about archeological sites that I'm not familiar with.

You can google these sites and there are a lot of unexplained things.
That is a tricky subject. As per ancient aliens Moses was also an alien offspring, so I am not sure how one can depict that but surely Moses cannot be played by a chinese, right ? It has to be played by a Jew I guess since he has to look Jewish maybe... something like that I think so.
there are a lot of unexplained things, but you're sure that the show ancient aliens has everything 100% correct, yeah?
 
That is a tricky subject. As per ancient aliens Moses was also an alien offspring, so I am not sure how one can depict that but surely Moses cannot be played by a chinese, right ? It has to be played by a Jew I guess since he has to look Jewish maybe... something like that I think so.
This is interesting. We need to know why aliens would take preference to being one race over another.
 
Historical characters have to be accurate.

Can you have Jennifer Lopez / Rihanna playing the role of Queen Victoria ?

Historical facts have to be accurate, otherwise kids watching it will be misguided and shall be confused.
Academic research has to be accurate. Entertainment has no such requirements.
 
Plot twist: Cleo's real father's name was actually Suresh, so it's possible that she had milk chocolate coloured skin. Hint: Cleopatra rhymes with Kama Sutra.
Cleopatra's name is Indian, related to the surname Mahapatra from the state of Odisha.
 
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